Ravagers are not armored. - Page 3
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FreeZEternal
Korea (South)3396 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On November 21 2015 05:21 FreeZEternal wrote: I had a pvz right now against mass lings/ravagers. I just went zealot + colossus with a few stalkers and wrecked the zerg army. The main issue though is if the zerg tech switches to mutas, im dead. Yup. In a reduced econ game where you have less money to spend on infrastructure, tech switches from Zerg are inherently stronger. | ||
Martinni
Canada169 Posts
On November 19 2015 23:32 DinoMight wrote: I learned this yesterday and felt just a little bit of disgust. 1) for not knowing something basic that I SHOULD know but also 2) because it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. It's a bigger Roach (which is armored) with a special ability. Implications of losing the "Armored" tag: It takes 7 Immotal hits to kill a Ravager instead of 3 to kill a Roach It takes 14 Stalker shots to kill a Ravager instead of 12 Marauders and Tanks similarly affected. I just thought everyone should know, since everyone I told was surprised to hear it. People were building Immortals/Marauders etc. to counter them :/ Please discuss. You know what also doesn't make sense? That hellbat can be healed, it comes from a mech unit after all.. but you can't do anything about it. That's how blizzard wants it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | ||
avilo
United States4100 Posts
They should go back to armored tbh. | ||
BronzeKnee
United States5207 Posts
On November 21 2015 06:55 Martinni wrote: You know what also doesn't make sense? That hellbat can be healed, it comes from a mech unit after all.. but you can't do anything about it. That's how blizzard wants it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But Banelings are good against Hellbats and Hellions. So are Stalkers and Roaches. If the Hellbat was armored, this would be a different story for Zerg. Changing armor types for units that morph from one another is a bad idea. | ||
NKexquisite
United States911 Posts
It doesn't really make sense that you would warp an armored unit into an un-armored unit, but whatever. | ||
Grumbels
Netherlands7028 Posts
On November 21 2015 07:40 NKexquisite wrote: I actually didn't realize this either, but seems like vs roach/hydra/ravager you still will want a more marauder heavy army anyways. It doesn't really make sense that you would warp an armored unit into an un-armored unit, but whatever. It's very common for unit classification to change after morphing though, I actually couldn't find an example where this wasn't the case. The most egregious case is the hellbat gaining the biological class after transforming. But I think it makes sense: if one would devise a metric for "proximity in infrastructure", which would include production as well as upgrades, and might e.g. group roaches and hydralisks or zerglings and banelings together, then it's probably desirable for those units to be clearly disparate for both gameplay and visual reasons. For instance, if marauders were light units then banelings would counter them and the distinction between marine / marauder would barely exist in TvZ. And units that have "proximity" tend to look more similar as well, and if they have both the same armor classes and the same set of counter units, it runs the risk of not feeling diverse enough. And that seems to break one of Blizzard's rules. Of course the main issue here is that the ravager already breaks a rule in that it was conceived of as a super-roach that solves the problem of roaches being somewhat lacking in flair, and it feels like you're just supposed to sprinkle them into your army as a supplement rather than view them as a core unit. They're not completely distinct from roaches the way that zerglings and banelings are distinct. So in that sense they are different from anything else in the game and therefore it's quite logical that Blizzard's unique concept ran afoul of some gameplay considerations since they didn't have experience with balancing such a unit. -- (just a theory though, and I think it's not a coincidence this happened with the second expansion of the game when Blizzard might already be at pains to add new content without adding too much complexity, so alternate unit forms might show up as a tempting idea at that point, since they give flexibility and more options without introducing a completely new unit) | ||
Elentos
55454 Posts
Nate also didn't know. Huh. I guess Blizzard didn't make it quite as obvious as they should have. I guess part of the problem is that the damn thing is so outrageously huge. | ||
i_am_Nite
Russian Federation66 Posts
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