|
On December 04 2015 09:46 Dangermousecatdog wrote: The myth of foreigner creativity and Korean robot is still strong. Make no mistake, korean creativity and mechanical skill are both better. No doubt.
And I agree that we can't know for sure about watchability right now. Gotta wait until the strategies stabilize, but I feel a good vibe coming from LotV :D.
|
While it's early days still, I am nonetheless happy to hear that the game is enjoyable to watch. I'm looking forward to see the development of builds the coming half year or so!
|
On December 04 2015 11:00 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2015 08:05 blade55555 wrote:On December 04 2015 01:56 IceBerrY wrote:On December 04 2015 01:37 Charoisaur wrote: It only seems this way because it's new. Wait until the meta stabilizes and yoi'll wish lotv got never released Why are 9 out of 10 of your response so damn negative? I mean, if i were you I would hate going on TL just to depress myself and then posting how shit LotV is. Have fun in the future mate. It's because he wants to be able to turtle and do nothing, then A move to victory. I would just ignore all his posts. zerg player detected. Doesn't surprise me you think legacy is awesome. if you think LotV is bad because of balance, you're doing it wrong.
|
On December 04 2015 04:46 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2015 02:26 FeyFey wrote: Haha I always found Koreans more frustrating to watch because they always sticked to one plan and it took them ages to close out a game because it felt like they don't know their race and just push the buttons they were trained to push.
It's called "fluently strategy" and I have complained about it in sc2 for ~3 yrs. Same strategie but more fluently than someone else is a damn boring process over time. sc2 emphasizes too much on "only one fluently strategy is all what you need in sc2" in the past years. Player A wins with a better strategie than Player B. This is exciting to play and watch. Player A wins with a more fluently strategie than Player B (both are playing with same strategy). This is exciting at first glance but damn boring over time. ~95% of all games happens like the latter scenario.
that's total horseshit 99% of foreigners just copy korean pro builds
|
On December 04 2015 14:22 -NegativeZero- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2015 11:00 Charoisaur wrote:On December 04 2015 08:05 blade55555 wrote:On December 04 2015 01:56 IceBerrY wrote:On December 04 2015 01:37 Charoisaur wrote: It only seems this way because it's new. Wait until the meta stabilizes and yoi'll wish lotv got never released Why are 9 out of 10 of your response so damn negative? I mean, if i were you I would hate going on TL just to depress myself and then posting how shit LotV is. Have fun in the future mate. It's because he wants to be able to turtle and do nothing, then A move to victory. I would just ignore all his posts. zerg player detected. Doesn't surprise me you think legacy is awesome. if you think LotV is bad because of balance, you're doing it wrong. Some people just seem to come to fight rather than enjoying the game. They also tend to assume everyone else are doing the same. :/
Probably no point in engaging in discussion, and just report if they overstep.
|
On December 04 2015 14:33 rauk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2015 04:46 Dingodile wrote:On December 04 2015 02:26 FeyFey wrote: Haha I always found Koreans more frustrating to watch because they always sticked to one plan and it took them ages to close out a game because it felt like they don't know their race and just push the buttons they were trained to push.
It's called "fluently strategy" and I have complained about it in sc2 for ~3 yrs. Same strategie but more fluently than someone else is a damn boring process over time. sc2 emphasizes too much on "only one fluently strategy is all what you need in sc2" in the past years. Player A wins with a better strategie than Player B. This is exciting to play and watch. Player A wins with a more fluently strategie than Player B (both are playing with same strategy). This is exciting at first glance but damn boring over time. ~95% of all games happens like the latter scenario. that's total horseshit 99% of foreigners just copy korean pro builds no idea because I only watch ~10% of all foreigner games. Koreans are doing it more fluently like I said. I blame Blizzard that they prefer the (boring) process. I guess it makes easier for making balance updates.
|
LotV is more action packed, so naturally that helps. I was just watching Mana vs Bunny at the Basetrade showmatches, and while I'd still tune in for PartinG vs Maru 10/10 times, it was an entertaining series.
And the game is new so people still don't really know what to do, which leads to lots of wonky compositions and attempted strategies. This'll get more ironed out as people realize "well this thing I was trying actually never works, so I shouldn't keep trying it."
On December 04 2015 04:46 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2015 02:26 FeyFey wrote: Haha I always found Koreans more frustrating to watch because they always sticked to one plan and it took them ages to close out a game because it felt like they don't know their race and just push the buttons they were trained to push.
It's called "fluently strategy" and I have complained about it in sc2 for ~3 yrs. Same strategie but more fluently than someone else is a damn boring process over time. sc2 emphasizes too much on "only one fluently strategy is all what you need in sc2" in the past years. Player A wins with a better strategie than Player B. This is exciting to play and watch. Player A wins with a more fluently strategie than Player B (both are playing with same strategy). This is exciting at first glance but damn boring over time. ~95% of all games happens like the latter scenario.
Tennis: exciting at first glance but damn boring over time.
Right?
|
Czech Republic12116 Posts
On December 04 2015 19:20 pure.Wasted wrote:LotV is more action packed, so naturally that helps. I was just watching Mana vs Bunny at the Basetrade showmatches, and while I'd still tune in for PartinG vs Maru 10/10 times, it was an entertaining series. And the game is new so people still don't really know what to do, which leads to lots of wonky compositions and attempted strategies. This'll get more ironed out as people realize "well this thing I was trying actually never works, so I shouldn't keep trying it." Show nested quote +On December 04 2015 04:46 Dingodile wrote:On December 04 2015 02:26 FeyFey wrote: Haha I always found Koreans more frustrating to watch because they always sticked to one plan and it took them ages to close out a game because it felt like they don't know their race and just push the buttons they were trained to push.
It's called "fluently strategy" and I have complained about it in sc2 for ~3 yrs. Same strategie but more fluently than someone else is a damn boring process over time. sc2 emphasizes too much on "only one fluently strategy is all what you need in sc2" in the past years. Player A wins with a better strategie than Player B. This is exciting to play and watch. Player A wins with a more fluently strategie than Player B (both are playing with same strategy). This is exciting at first glance but damn boring over time. ~95% of all games happens like the latter scenario. Tennis: exciting at first glance but damn boring over time. Right? Right.
|
On December 04 2015 17:57 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2015 14:33 rauk wrote:On December 04 2015 04:46 Dingodile wrote:On December 04 2015 02:26 FeyFey wrote: Haha I always found Koreans more frustrating to watch because they always sticked to one plan and it took them ages to close out a game because it felt like they don't know their race and just push the buttons they were trained to push.
It's called "fluently strategy" and I have complained about it in sc2 for ~3 yrs. Same strategie but more fluently than someone else is a damn boring process over time. sc2 emphasizes too much on "only one fluently strategy is all what you need in sc2" in the past years. Player A wins with a better strategie than Player B. This is exciting to play and watch. Player A wins with a more fluently strategie than Player B (both are playing with same strategy). This is exciting at first glance but damn boring over time. ~95% of all games happens like the latter scenario. that's total horseshit 99% of foreigners just copy korean pro builds no idea because I only watch ~10% of all foreigner games. Koreans are doing it more fluently like I said. I blame Blizzard that they prefer the (boring) process. I guess it makes easier for making balance updates.
You blame blizzard that competitive individuals act in ways congruent with centuries of academic study on logic, psychology, game theory, algorithm optimization, etc? People will always try to find the dominant strategy to win. Don't pretend foreigners never went bl infestor or bio medivac. The people in the foreign community most well known for their wacky builds are just that, they don't often win tournaments and often depend on their namesake popularity and community content to stay financially afloat instead of tournament winnings.
|
On December 04 2015 19:20 pure.Wasted wrote:LotV is more action packed, so naturally that helps. I was just watching Mana vs Bunny at the Basetrade showmatches, and while I'd still tune in for PartinG vs Maru 10/10 times, it was an entertaining series. And the game is new so people still don't really know what to do, which leads to lots of wonky compositions and attempted strategies. This'll get more ironed out as people realize "well this thing I was trying actually never works, so I shouldn't keep trying it." Show nested quote +On December 04 2015 04:46 Dingodile wrote:On December 04 2015 02:26 FeyFey wrote: Haha I always found Koreans more frustrating to watch because they always sticked to one plan and it took them ages to close out a game because it felt like they don't know their race and just push the buttons they were trained to push.
It's called "fluently strategy" and I have complained about it in sc2 for ~3 yrs. Same strategie but more fluently than someone else is a damn boring process over time. sc2 emphasizes too much on "only one fluently strategy is all what you need in sc2" in the past years. Player A wins with a better strategie than Player B. This is exciting to play and watch. Player A wins with a more fluently strategie than Player B (both are playing with same strategy). This is exciting at first glance but damn boring over time. ~95% of all games happens like the latter scenario. Tennis: exciting at first glance but damn boring over time. Right? No. Tennis player can change the playstyle, football teams too. Both are like first scenario.
Look what happened to Formula 1. With evey new rule (or new patch by Blizzard) that decrease the strengths of the players. This tends that everyone have the same one strategy.
|
I don't think I've ever seen the real life sport-analogies people use on TL sometimes lead to any conclusions regarding e-sports. Just too different. Probably better to try to argue your points without these analogies that may or may not hold for starcraft.
If we see sports like tennis do something well, we can discuss if that may work in e-sports as well, but we can't assume that e-sports follow the same rules as RL sports.
|
I completely agree with the topic of this thread. I`ve noticed that it is more general - the worse player in SC2 you are the more fun you get firstly, in bronze and silver no race is OP. We often barely manage to control our units so everything is unpredictable. And if win of defeat depends on one misclick it doesn`t affect us at all. We have fun which is similar to gambling - sometimes we win sometimes we lose and mostly lose but there are always excuses. I can always say it`s not my fault - my strategy was great but my finger just slipped and that`s why I lost So have fun, try new tactics and don`t bother if you lose - remember that only 40.000 people play sc2 in Europe in ranking - so it`s elite of elite in itself
|
Soooo i'm back.
On December 04 2015 01:56 IceBerrY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2015 01:37 Charoisaur wrote: It only seems this way because it's new. Wait until the meta stabilizes and yoi'll wish lotv got never released Why are 9 out of 10 of your response so damn negative? I mean, if i were you I would hate going on TL just to depress myself and then posting how shit LotV is. Have fun in the future mate. Common sense cannot be neither negative nor positive. Ability to actually percept things through logic, analyse and predict the outcome according to gathered experience is what distinguishes a human from an animal. Though there are still people who are ready to sell their innocence for a new shiny and glowing trinket. And that's, how they think, "fun" looks like.
On December 04 2015 04:46 Dingodile wrote: Player A wins with a better strategie than Player B. This is exciting to play and watch. Player A wins with a more fluently strategie than Player B (both are playing with same strategy). This is exciting at first glance but damn boring over time. ~95% of all games happens like the latter scenario. What's a better strategy? BO win? Give an example if you think otherwise. And discribe why do you think that's exiciting, please. And yes, of course, watching someone who perfected his skills winning because of that is boring. Noone likes talent amplified with hardwork. We want some random scrubs beating pros with betta stratagys.
|
On December 04 2015 20:19 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2015 19:20 pure.Wasted wrote:LotV is more action packed, so naturally that helps. I was just watching Mana vs Bunny at the Basetrade showmatches, and while I'd still tune in for PartinG vs Maru 10/10 times, it was an entertaining series. And the game is new so people still don't really know what to do, which leads to lots of wonky compositions and attempted strategies. This'll get more ironed out as people realize "well this thing I was trying actually never works, so I shouldn't keep trying it." On December 04 2015 04:46 Dingodile wrote:On December 04 2015 02:26 FeyFey wrote: Haha I always found Koreans more frustrating to watch because they always sticked to one plan and it took them ages to close out a game because it felt like they don't know their race and just push the buttons they were trained to push.
It's called "fluently strategy" and I have complained about it in sc2 for ~3 yrs. Same strategie but more fluently than someone else is a damn boring process over time. sc2 emphasizes too much on "only one fluently strategy is all what you need in sc2" in the past years. Player A wins with a better strategie than Player B. This is exciting to play and watch. Player A wins with a more fluently strategie than Player B (both are playing with same strategy). This is exciting at first glance but damn boring over time. ~95% of all games happens like the latter scenario. Tennis: exciting at first glance but damn boring over time. Right? No. Tennis player can change the playstyle, football teams too. Both are like first scenario. Look what happened to Formula 1. With evey new rule (or new patch by Blizzard) that decrease the strengths of the players. This tends that everyone have the same one strategy.
Formula 1 is properly more apt. F1 is such that .5 of a second per lap advantage will win you the season by the half-way point. It'd be kind of insane to see what the top teams could actually do if they weren't so hampered.
Still, the main reasons for the Korean dominance of the scene is Coaching and Information Sharing. The coaching probably being the biggest issue that the non-Korean scene has. And the difference isn't actually that massive. The Top Flight of the Korean scene is only about 40 players at any one time. The top non-Korean are normally just below them.
For as much as the Koreans are "better", it's really down to those two keys. That's why the dominate the games that a lot of Koreans play & that responds well to the Korean training regime. When you can find the best talent and train them up well, you get the best results.
As for LOTV, I'm really liking watching it so far. Especially when we get high level Archon matches. Watching units being pushed to the limits around the map is pretty awesome.
|
I am talking about WoL and HotS. Way too early about LotV. Unit composition at time elapsed, especially with T. Terran starts with MMM in first minute and end with MMM, impartial from Terran win or loss. Terran starts mech and ends with mech, doesnt matter if the game took 10 or 50min. Nonstop the same unit composition form start to end over the whole time. We had/saw similiar with P and Z. Zerg played the whole time lingbling muta vs MMM. Z played dumb rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr the whole time vs P. Again this is Blizzards fault in my eyes that they want such (same) fights endless times in one match. Blizzard forces us to do things they like. We saw BL+C+Inf era the for ~15 months (?) in a row and many more.
Edit: If a player want to change the unit composition, you should try it but we all know that this works very bad in sc2. I am not talking about adding 3 ghosts or 3 ht's. A bigger change.
|
|
|
|