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On February 23 2010 01:15 Knee_of_Justice wrote: All, and especially the immortal. He worded it poorly.
CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW
Also none of these are exactly set in stone, like Valkyrie use in SC1. You can add hellions and you could choose not to. Unit composition is just one part of the formula. Vikings can work against Colossus but it depends on micro and positioning and just numbers as well. If you can safely snipe Colossi without losing more than a few to no vikings, then it's great. WHICH in turn might mean the Protoss army has less stalkers and something else, say zealots, in which you may need Hellion.
That said, these are just guidelines really. There is never going to be an absolute counter for most things.
If a mod cares could you change thread title as well? Last time I checked, "Collosus" should be Colossus as well as Colossi. Or just TvP Basic Unit Composition Counters in general.
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Alright so I play Protoss, and this matchup is definitely hard for Terran but a couple friends and I tried to counter the 2 warp-gate Immortal/Colossus push. What we tended to figure out is that Marine Marauder Medi-vek with Tanks pretty much stops that push, obviously the issue is that you won't be able to get tanks to defend when the push actually occurs.
In general you need a bit more scouting, better timing, and a better unit combination. If all else fails turtle up a bit, build a CC in your base and defend with Tanks. The real issue is holding off the initial attack of 4 Stalker, 4 Zealot, 2 Sentry, Immortal; but turtling again while getting a tank will fend it off.
Scout, Scout, Scout Colossus should not sneak up on you.
*Thors in low micro vs low micro players can one shot Colosuss but Immortals counter them, so up to you on that aspect. *Colossus can be hit by both ground and anti-air, so Vikings are also good against them - they also gain increased damage and the only thing that can hit them in this strategy is Sentries and Stalkers, which should be in low numbers since the high gas demand. *Immortals take FULL damage after their shields are gone, so Ghosts in this situation is highly recommended, with the new sizes and mass group 1 A-Move they create a massive pool making for easy EMPs
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Marauders counter Stalker, Immortal, AND Colossi, don't they? Last time I checked, all three of the aforementioned units are heavily armored.
You would need a Ghost to quickly shoot off an EMP, of course, making the Immortals weaker. Immortals counter Marauders as well, though, so you have to be careful.
I just suggest going mass marauder (Massrauder?) with Banshees to soft-counter all of the above (Except for Stalker, although Marauders burn through them; even then, you can just get Cloak)
If you have a Medivac, Marauder, and Banshee army w/ a Ghost or two, you should be able to take them down, although don't take my word on it.
Sort of like an MnM "Stealth" build, Stealth coming from the Ghost and Banshee both conveniently having Cloak.
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MrMoose
Canada176 Posts
Marauders don't counter immortals. Immortals take only 10 on shields (assuming no emp) instead of the 20 dmg that marauders would otherwise do, and do 50 (!) back because marauders are heavy. Marines should be a better choice against a theoretical pure immortal army because they do almost as much damage, die in the same amount of hits (3), are less than half the cost, and you can build them twice as fast with the same # of rax. The only thing though is that marines get totally raped by colossi.
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Ugh, I forgot about the Immortal's Shield ability! My bad ^_^
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yeah, also if colossi have their range upgrade done, marauders need to walk through the entire army to even land a few hits on the colossi.
I've also tried most of my games with banshees, but toss player's have adapted real quick and just get one stargate phoenix to counter my whole air army. I hope there'll be some real good T players out there who can provide some neat shit, because 2/3 games I encounter are vs P.
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Here is what I would do. I don't have the beta, but I've been watching a lot of games so I have an idea of how things work.
Scout well and make sure there's no way you can win the game early. If you know your opponent is going stalker/zeal + collossus + immortal, here's what you do. Put your factory on a tech lab and start making tanks. If you don't already have marine shields and stim, research those first and make more tech labs if necessary. Then put all but one rax on reactors and start pumping rines. Make sure you have EMP researched. With your techrax, start making ghosts. If you already have the tech to get medivacs, great. Get enough to counteract the damage from your stim. Otherwise, just worry about tanks and EMP.
After you have all the necessary tech, spend all your gas on tanks and ghosts. If you need another factory or another rax on tech lab, then get the necessary buildings. Spend your minerals (besides those needed for expanding, turrets, scvs, etc.) on rines from your reactoraxes.
Only keep a small fraction of your tanks sieged. Tank DPS is much better vs immortals and stalkers when unsieged, and you want to be able to fight on the retreat if necessary and avoid splashing your own units when killing zeals. The sieged tanks are to counteract collossuses. Make sure you never siege in a clump. Prioritize collossi with tanks, and immortals with EMP. Try to keep your marines away from collossi or at least spread them out. If you can't EMP an immortal, focus it with stimmed marines and get it down. Abuse EMP to the greatest extent possible. Marines are also vulnerable to storm, so if that becomes an issue, snipe or EMP any high temps.
If you have the leeway to get medivacs, take 8 marines and do stimmed marine drop harrassment.
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2 port -> FE to PF -> Banshees -> more banshees -> M&M&M + Ghosts
there! problem solved!
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Damn I was going to say Thor's counter Collosus pretty easy but seems like TorcH beat me to it. =(
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I prefer a very Marine heavy MM army w/ a handful of Ghosts and Medivacs and as many Vikings as I need to handle his # of Colossus.
Marauder/Banshee is pretty sweet mid-game but it struggles later on due to banshee production times, lack of an answer to protoss air and charge zeals.
I never make Tanks vs P since... well, they dont combo well (no mines, so his charge zeals are always next to ur troops resulting in friendly splash) and they don't really counter anything very well and they get shat on by Immortals.
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am i the only one who hates Thors lol, do you use it Cow?, Thor sucks so bad imo lol
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I like to use my factory to scout since its generally worthless vs Protoss IMO, especially if they make any number of Immortals which is like 95% of the time what I see Protoss do...
So no, don't really make Thors.
They are 1 of your best counters to Ultralisks though =)
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Just EMP him and use tanks/rines. Focus down the Immortals after the EMP.
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immortals melt maruders
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yeah but not without shield they are not so scary after you EMPed them
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If you see the protoss teching for fast immortals, just 3 rax reactor and own them before colossus.
The only way to hold off mass marine is 3-4 cannons on ledge and colossus tech, and very few do that, most people go for fast immortal when they think you go marauder/marine. (immortal s u c k against marine).I have not lost to any teching protoss with this push. (platinum 1-5 players).
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On February 27 2010 06:51 Pekkz wrote: If you see the protoss teching for fast immortals, just 3 rax reactor and own them before colossus.
The only way to hold off mass marine is 3-4 cannons on ledge and colossus tech, and very few do that, most people go for fast immortal when they think you go marauder/marine. (immortal s u c k against marine).I have not lost to any teching protoss with this push. (platinum 1-5 players). and forcefield...
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ye and forcefield. But the thing is, no protoss will go for cannons AND forcefield unless they know you go 3 rax mass marine.. and theres no way they will know that if u wall off correctly. I found that u can block the ramp by only 1 rax 1 supply depot if u do it downstairs, and not up on the ramp. This will completly stop a scout on 4 player map sometimes. And on 2 player map u will ofc put up ur 2th and 3th rax after u have killed the probe.
I go gas before rax, and have 2 scv on it, so i just get 150 gas for reactors, then pull em on mining again. As far as the protoss is concerned you can do any number of things after this, and he wont know what until he has observer. And by that time you will allready be on your way with 10-15 marines, and a steady x6 marines every 20 sec coming from your base. Only way to stop that is 3-4 cannons and forcefield. And to do that if you where teching in the first place aint optimal
edit: btw remember to only use ur energy on mule first time. 2th and maby 3th is good to break ramp if they put the cannons out on the ledges and have units stand there shooting down.
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On February 27 2010 08:59 Pekkz wrote:ye and forcefield. But the thing is, no protoss will go for cannons AND forcefield unless they know you go 3 rax mass marine.. and theres no way they will know that if u wall off correctly. I found that u can block the ramp by only 1 rax 1 supply depot if u do it downstairs, and not up on the ramp. This will completly stop a scout on 4 player map sometimes. And on 2 player map u will ofc put up ur 2th and 3th rax after u have killed the probe. I go gas before rax, and have 2 scv on it, so i just get 150 gas for reactors, then pull em on mining again. As far as the protoss is concerned you can do any number of things after this, and he wont know what until he has observer. And by that time you will allready be on your way with 10-15 marines, and a steady x6 marines every 20 sec coming from your base. Only way to stop that is 3-4 cannons and forcefield. And to do that if you where teching in the first place aint optimal edit: btw remember to only use ur energy on mule first time. 2th and maby 3th is good to break ramp if they put the cannons out on the ledges and have units stand there shooting down. OFC he wont go forcefield AND cannons thats redundant. He should just go forcefield instead of cannons IMO, which is a pretty hard counter against an all-in rush.
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lol with the new changes to terran building and addon build times the marine push will be even stronger.
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