(Vote): Oz and CoCa (Vote): Oz and BBoongBBoong (Vote): Oz and Bomber (Vote): Oz and Sage (Vote): Coca and BBoongBBoong (Vote): Coca and Bomber (Vote): Coca and Sage (Vote): BBoongBBoong and Bomber (Vote): BBoongBBoong and Sage (Vote): Sage and Bomber
On November 06 2011 11:44 Attilanator wrote: Does this require a special ticket, even to watch live, like the last AoL?
Nope, you can watch it for free. Quality is pretty low though.
On today's group, can a Protoss finally make it through the group stages of the AOL?
I'm not optimistic about it. Bomber and CoCa both have extraordinary vP's. BBoongBBoong's no slouch either, his ZvP is actually at 75% including winning 14 of his last 15 matches vP.
Given Sage's lousy PvP, he can definitely go 0-4 in this group.
Sage and Oz are against 2 exceptional vP'ers + a good all around player TT Both Oz and Sage vs Bomer should be good tho (I hope...the TvP matchup is not very exciting atm :D)
Bomber should definitely advance, but I don't know whether Coca or Bbong will follow him. AoL groups play out like extended rounds of GSTL matches, which is probably why players like Nestea and MKP underperformed while Curious and DRG excelled. On that note BboongBboong may just edge out Coca since he's pretty consistent when it comes to BO1s and Coca was unreliable when it came to GSTL play. On the other hand Coca's ZvZ has significantly improved and he might beat Bbong head-to-head, which would be the theoretical tiebreaker if they stomp all over Sage and Oz and Bomber just does standard Bomber.
"Easy" is the last word I'd use to describe this group. I want Coca and Sage or Coca and Bomber, but only if they are playing serious. I guess all of these guys still have something to prove, Bomber probably the least, and hopefully they'll come out swinging. I haven't watched any of this AOUL though...do the players feel more serious this time around?
I'm predicting Bomber > Bboong > Oz > Coca > Sage. Sage has gotten so much hype though, while I haven't seen too much from him so I will likely be quite far off on this prediction... but oh well. Regardless I think only a few of the matches are relatively easy to call like Bomber vs Coca.
On November 06 2011 15:01 Mortal wrote: Sage and Bomber. Would be VERY surprised if there was even a contest from the others.
Sage will lose to Bomber and Oz since Bomber is a TvP beast and sage is pretty bad at PvP. Coca has really good ZvP and has a chance to beat Sage. I could see Coca advancing
On November 06 2011 15:21 tuho12345 wrote: Only Mothership could save him
I think this is actually true. Against that many corruptors, it seems like archon toilet is legitimately the best idea. Incoming brood lord spreading micro?
Actually, mothership is one of the few things that could have helped. The only thing other than mothership is perhaps mass void with enough HT to feedback every infestor.
On November 06 2011 15:24 Silidons wrote: storms so good. takes about 7 to kill a broodlord lol.
mothership is so fragile, it would have gotten worked by corruptors. and he can just NP it...
Mothership is ridicuously good late game zvp. You can keep it out of range of neural parasite, its actually impossible to np it if you have good control. And cocoa had hardly any corrupters.
On November 06 2011 15:24 Silidons wrote: storms so good. takes about 7 to kill a broodlord lol.
mothership is so fragile, it would have gotten worked by corruptors. and he can just NP it...
Mothership is ridicuously good late game zvp. You can keep it out of range of neural parasite, its actually impossible to np it if you have good control. And cocoa had hardly any corrupters.
impossible? uh...mothership is not hard to NP when you have mass infestor with support.
Sage may kill Coca's main while the BLs were assaulting his. Dunno why hes just strolling around and trying in vain to kill infinite flows of broodlings
On November 06 2011 15:24 Silidons wrote: storms so good. takes about 7 to kill a broodlord lol.
mothership is so fragile, it would have gotten worked by corruptors. and he can just NP it...
Mothership is ridicuously good late game zvp. You can keep it out of range of neural parasite, its actually impossible to np it if you have good control. And cocoa had hardly any corrupters.
impossible? uh...mothership is not hard to NP when you have mass infestor with support.
If you hvae mass infestor(which cocoa didn't), then you simply kill him with collusus, which sage had until the very end. You can't just go in with infestors without losing them, and with the mothership acceleration you can just move out, and so to np it you have to get ridicuously close which means losing your infestors.
On November 06 2011 15:28 Arceus wrote: Sage may kill Coca's main while the BLs were assaulting his. Dunno why hes just strolling around and trying in vain to kill infinite flows of broodlings
and zerg's still complain about deathball interesting game though, i think that sage coulda won if he wasn't stupid and actually took everything out he had a chance.
Sage just needed to use his extreme genius scouting late in the game as opposed to only early. He didn't react to Coca's bizzaro composition well enough so he lost. Kinda painful to watch, but I guess no one can beat Coca in ZvP :D
On November 06 2011 15:29 FryktSkyene wrote: Just my opinion but it wasen't that exciting...
Did a good job denying bases but once you have BL/infestors he just got rolled didnt even stand a chance.
agreed. Sage's base denial was cute, but the whole time Coca was just massing broods and Sage either didn't know about it or ignored it. So few stalkers, so few void rays, throwing away phoenix... The game was over when the BL count hit like 10.
On November 06 2011 15:30 Kommander wrote: I felt like Sage should've just base traded, he had a more mobile army.
He could have been working on a base trade with his colossus/stalker/zealot/sentry comp that was just wandering around but apparently it just sat around doing nothing. Could have maybe made Coca make a bad decision and then attacked from 2 sides.
Maybe I haven't been keeping up with the latest TvZ tactics, but I don't think I've seen that bunker in the back of the natural before. Very smart and it made all the difference in holding that baneling bust.
On November 06 2011 15:38 deathzz wrote: i heard massing 50mins units makes for interesting match..... NOT
Actually I think it is pretty entertaining. FYI tvz was the same way, terrans literally made marines sometimes some tanks, then added science vessels and zvt was the most epic thing in bw (imo) just like sc2 is now (imo)
Its things like this that remind me just how good MKP is. 'Cuase if that was MKP controlling those marines he would've won. Bomber wasn't targetting down banes, or splitting nearly as well as MKP does. The second fight especially - Bomber's micro was (and is) good, but as I say I'm just reminded that MKP is amazing.
On November 06 2011 15:40 Treadmill wrote: Its things like this that remind me just how good MKP is. 'Cuase if that was MKP controlling those marines he would've won. Bomber wasn't targetting down banes, or splitting nearly as well as MKP does. The second fight especially - Bomber's micro was (and is) good, but as I say I'm just reminded that MKP is amazing.
yeah, mkp dosen't have bomber's macro though. MVP is like the closest to having the good aspects of both of them though.
On November 06 2011 15:40 Treadmill wrote: Its things like this that remind me just how good MKP is. 'Cuase if that was MKP controlling those marines he would've won. Bomber wasn't targetting down banes, or splitting nearly as well as MKP does. The second fight especially - Bomber's micro was (and is) good, but as I say I'm just reminded that MKP is amazing.
yeah, mkp dosen't have bomber's macro though. MVP is like the closest to having the good aspects of both of them though.
Bomber's macro is still better imo... He churns out upgrades better than anyone else in the world by far and he always has so much.
On November 06 2011 15:41 Vindicare605 wrote: This is what the Red Army would look like if Bomber was a soviet general in WW2.
i'm pretty sure bombers utilized his marines exactly how the russians did. didnt really value the life of a soldier, just used them for pretty much anything. i forget which war it was, but they used them as purely cannon fodder and had them sit and get killed just so the enemy could not advance.
On November 06 2011 15:38 deathzz wrote: i heard massing 50mins units makes for interesting match..... NOT
Actually I think it is pretty entertaining. FYI tvz was the same way, terrans literally made marines sometimes some tanks, then added science vessels and zvt was the most epic thing in bw (imo) just like sc2 is now (imo)
At least in BW keeping up mass marine production was a macro challenge though when there was no MBS.
On November 06 2011 15:41 Vindicare605 wrote: This is what the Red Army would look like if Bomber was a soviet general in WW2.
i'm pretty sure bombers utilized his marines exactly how the russians did. didnt really value the life of a soldier, just used them for pretty much anything. i forget which war it was, but they used them as purely cannon fodder and had them sit and get killed just so the enemy could not advance.
This is a hard group for Sage. Coca is a zerg killer, bomber is bomber, and oz is a protoss(he sucks vs protoss). Leaves one, on paper, easier opponent who isn't that easy either.
On November 06 2011 15:37 babylon wrote: Bomber's just vomiting marines.
It's almost like he is the king of marines or something
Can you imagine how scary it would be if Bomber had MKP's marine control? Or if MKP had Bomber's macro?
You'd get MVP?
That's pretty much the truth
Not quite. You still need MVP's decision making.
And what if you threw in Nada's good looks and Boxer's genius?
I honestly think that Bomber has better macro than Mvp, and MKP has better micro. Mvp is good in both, but I;ve never found him to be spectacular. Mvp is just amazing at figuring out exactly when he can move out and kill his opponent (and then just killing them). And when that never happens he just turtles on half the map until his opponent runs out of patience and suicides his whole army.
On November 06 2011 15:37 babylon wrote: Bomber's just vomiting marines.
It's almost like he is the king of marines or something
Can you imagine how scary it would be if Bomber had MKP's marine control? Or if MKP had Bomber's macro?
You'd get MVP?
That's pretty much the truth
Not quite. You still need MVP's decision making.
And what if you threw in Nada's good looks and Boxer's genius?
I honestly think that Bomber has better macro than Mvp, and MKP has better micro. Mvp is good in both, but I;ve never found him to be spectacular. Mvp is just amazing at figuring out exactly when he can move out and kill his opponent (and then just killing them). And when that never happens he just turtles on half the map until his opponent runs out of patience and suicides his whole army.
I completely agree with you.
Also, sometimes I dream of the day when Bomber doesn't wtf his units into oblivion.
That was actually the worst build I've ever seen in a pro level match. Coca wasn't safe against anything, had way too much gas the entire game, and was behind in economy. There was literally nothing he had an advantage in.
On November 06 2011 15:50 blade55555 wrote: what did I just watch O_O
My younger brother who doesn't play was watching over my shoulder and I've been explaining most of the games. After this one all I could say was "what the fuck was that?!"
On November 06 2011 15:51 Hall0wed wrote: On the units tab, that thingy right next to the drones. There was just 1 and it kinda looked like a shell. WTF was that?
I found that game amusing. I always find it funny when one player goes for some weird, technical build, and the other just goes "hey WTF I can just kill you". Not being sarcastic, I really do find it funny.
On November 06 2011 15:50 Silidons wrote: coca has bad ZvP imo. he never makes any attacking units for some reason
Before this, Coca had a 100% win rate against protoss in the gsl.
Earlier tonight he beat Sage who is considered one of the strongest PvZers as well, that was just a weird game. My take is he expected OZ to do his normal style was not expecting the stargate. Once he saw that he just didn't know what to do.
On November 06 2011 15:53 Treadmill wrote: I found that game amusing. I always find it funny when one player goes for some weird, technical build, and the other just goes "hey WTF I can just kill you". Not being sarcastic, I really do find it funny.
On November 06 2011 15:51 Hall0wed wrote: On the units tab, that thingy right next to the drones. There was just 1 and it kinda looked like a shell. WTF was that?
Maybe a changeling?
Oh ok that would kinda make sense since he did drop a changling into Oz's base that went untouched. Still though, that picture on the unit tab was bizarre.
is there actually a prize for winning AOL? I can't seem to find it. Some of these games literally have had me shouting "WHAT THE FUCK AM I WATCHING?" at my computer screen.
I'm not saying CoCa threw that game...but he will be playing Oz first in Code S Group F on Tuesday, maybe he just wanted to throw out a build that's terrible so as not to show what he's planning?
EDIT: Their match on Tuesday will also be on Bel'Shir Beach.
On November 06 2011 15:50 Silidons wrote: coca has bad ZvP imo. he never makes any attacking units for some reason
He usually has great zvp, actually.
that game literally looked like a platinum zerg though >_<
Nah, he was just unlucky that Oz went for stargate and scouted the spire right after the first phoenixes. More like a BO lost imo, Oz would have a terrible time dealing with that mutas rush
On November 06 2011 15:54 Fission wrote: is there actually a prize for winning AOL? I can't seem to find it. Some of these games literally have had me shouting "WHAT THE FUCK AM I WATCHING?" at my computer screen.
On November 06 2011 15:54 Fission wrote: is there actually a prize for winning AOL? I can't seem to find it. Some of these games literally have had me shouting "WHAT THE FUCK AM I WATCHING?" at my computer screen.
On November 06 2011 15:54 Diader wrote: I'm not saying CoCa threw that game...but he will be playing Oz first in Code S Group F on Tuesday, maybe he just wanted to throw out a build that's terrible so as not to show what he's planning?
Nice catch. Oz also didn't made anything unusual so I guess that could be it.
On November 06 2011 15:54 Fission wrote: is there actually a prize for winning AOL? I can't seem to find it. Some of these games literally have had me shouting "WHAT THE FUCK AM I WATCHING?" at my computer screen.
On November 06 2011 15:01 Mortal wrote: Sage and Bomber. Would be VERY surprised if there was even a contest from the others.
Sage will lose to Bomber and Oz since Bomber is a TvP beast and sage is pretty bad at PvP. Coca has really good ZvP and has a chance to beat Sage. I could see Coca advancing
On November 06 2011 15:01 Mortal wrote: Sage and Bomber. Would be VERY surprised if there was even a contest from the others.
Sage will lose to Bomber and Oz since Bomber is a TvP beast and sage is pretty bad at PvP. Coca has really good ZvP and has a chance to beat Sage. I could see Coca advancing
God these casters... bomber didnt see the templar archive, he only saw twilight council and expected DTs, as seen by his careful wall off in the ramp and 2 missile turrets, and sage's start completely caught him off guard T.T how can you deduce bomber seeing templar archive when he's making turrets in his base -_- Unless turrets now have special attack on casters lol
On November 06 2011 16:04 Arceus wrote: then I thought $9000 would be enough for high quality games still a funny show though
The games are too close together, and these big group stages mean that it's basically impossible to prep for them. These are nothing more than glorified ladder games.
On November 06 2011 16:04 Arceus wrote: then I thought $9000 would be enough for high quality games still a funny show though
The games are too close together, and these big group stages mean that it's basically impossible to prep for them. These are nothing more than glorified ladder games.
Not to mention a lot of these players have upcoming GSL matches. (And Bomber just got back from Sweden too, if I recall correctly.)
On November 06 2011 16:02 architecture wrote: The fact is 2rax is a terrible build. All it does is try to pick up a freewin against 1gate expand.
Following it up with 6m CC + port tech is just awful. You can't do anything until 15m.
Not really... He expanded at practically the same time.
It doesn't have to do with that. It has to do with the fact that your econ comes so late, so you have super late extra raxes, and can't reasonably prevent stuff like the fast templars, or basically anything.
So you have to sit back, and catch up in macro + add ghosts.
On November 06 2011 16:19 Hall0wed wrote: I was still worried at the end there >< Oz had 0 probes, 50 minerals, and a Nexus that was in severe danger.
ah that didn't matter if he lost the nexus. But I thought he was going to just go for the full base race which would have blown my mind as it was unnecessary when he could have just pulled back, killed the army, then go back adn kill him
On November 06 2011 16:01 EricCartman wrote: chargelot/archon is such an abuse
Not really, getting trapped by sick FF's then being indecisive in a base race just loses people games.
its abusively strong. in a map where 1 rax FE is tough.. its really hard to play as TvP. 2 rax is pretty buillshit against any toss that doesnt go 1gate FE.
On November 06 2011 16:24 Hall0wed wrote: I wish they had better outfits in this video, I like the song but not the MV cause the outfits are pretty meh. >_<
Then you'd better not watch their remix MV Roly Poly in the Copacabana.
On November 06 2011 16:24 lolnoty wrote: I guess SC2 is new enough that there are people not addicted to K-pop yet. Give it 8 more years and you'll learn to love it.
So I leave during the break to play a quick game, come back to see 2 pages of ppl talking about stupid Kpop and 1 post talking about the actual game happening. Typical.
On November 06 2011 16:43 red4ce wrote: So I leave during the break to play a quick game, come back to see 2 pages of ppl talking about stupid Kpop and 1 post talking about the actual game happening. Typical.
There's not much to say about the game. Pretty standard ZvT. Did you win?
On November 06 2011 16:43 red4ce wrote: So I leave during the break to play a quick game, come back to see 2 pages of ppl talking about stupid Kpop and 1 post talking about the actual game happening. Typical.
There's not much to say about the game. Pretty standard ZvT. Did you win?
Judging his mood from his post. Im going to guess he didn't.
On November 06 2011 16:43 red4ce wrote: So I leave during the break to play a quick game, come back to see 2 pages of ppl talking about stupid Kpop and 1 post talking about the actual game happening. Typical.
There's not much to say about the game. Pretty standard ZvT. Did you win?
Nope My baneling busts would probably work better with a-move than my pathetic attemts at micro.
On November 06 2011 16:43 red4ce wrote: So I leave during the break to play a quick game, come back to see 2 pages of ppl talking about stupid Kpop and 1 post talking about the actual game happening. Typical.
There's not much to say about the game. Pretty standard ZvT. Did you win?
Judging his mood from his post. Im going to guess he didn't.
Seeing Kpop always puts me in a bad mood. I know I shouldn't care so much but the idea of these 'musicians' being popular because of their looks rather than their actual talent annoys me to great extent.
On November 06 2011 16:43 red4ce wrote: So I leave during the break to play a quick game, come back to see 2 pages of ppl talking about stupid Kpop and 1 post talking about the actual game happening. Typical.
There's not much to say about the game. Pretty standard ZvT. Did you win?
Nope My baneling busts would probably work better with a-move than my pathetic attemts at micro.
Ka ching!
I feel Coca threw this game away. Maybe the vikings confused him enough to throw him off.
On November 06 2011 16:50 Newbistic wrote: Wolf and Doa are fucking hilarious together. Someone should make a show where they're also given alcohol, it would be legendary.
Somehow I think both of them are the "I love you man" type when they drink.
I don't get it. At first I thought Bomber was way behind after CoCa delaying his third so much. Then Bomber went up in supply, even after a terrible engage? And then he donated his lead to CoCa?
On November 06 2011 16:51 babylon wrote: What the fuck is going on in this game?
I don't get it. At first I thought Bomber was way behind after CoCa delaying his third so much. Then Bomber went up in supply, even after a terrible engage? And then he donated his lead to CoCa?
I guess this is the reason why bomber hasn't got as much success as his skill would indicate. He has a tendency to choke and is not as consistently solid as MVP.
Anyways, a bizarre game - Coca did his best to lose the game by constantly overextending with muta harass and natural counter-attacks but Bomber returns the favour.
I don't see why everyone's criticising Coca's play that game. I think he played excellently aside from one weak engagement. He was ahead almost the entire game til that one engagement, and then he caught up anyway because his flanks were excellent. I thought it was really nice to watch...
On November 06 2011 16:53 Azzur wrote: I guess this is the reason why bomber hasn't got as much success as his skill would indicate. He has a tendency to choke and is not as consistently solid as MVP.
Anyways, a bizarre game - Coca did his best to lose the game with overextending muta harass and natural counter-attacks but Bomber returns the favour.
I actually felt really bad for Bomber after Wolf gave us a speech about Bomber's choking habits.
You want to become big, but once you do, you feel like you have to live up to everyone's expectations of you, and you just fall apart. Recipe for disaster. I thought he'd gotten over it, but apparently not.
On November 06 2011 16:54 GGPope wrote: I don't see why everyone's criticising Coca's play that game. I think he played excellently aside from one weak engagement. He was ahead almost the entire game til that one engagement, and then he caught up anyway because his flanks were excellent. I thought it was really nice to watch...
Then he lost his 3rd and 4th to a medivac of marines each. For no reason?
On November 06 2011 16:53 Azzur wrote: I guess this is the reason why bomber hasn't got as much success as his skill would indicate. He has a tendency to choke and is not as consistently solid as MVP.
Anyways, a bizarre game - Coca did his best to lose the game with overextending muta harass and natural counter-attacks but Bomber returns the favour.
I actually felt really bad for Bomber after Wolf gave us a speech about Bomber's choking habits.
You want to become big, but once you do, you feel like you have to live up to everyone's expectations of you, and you just fall apart. Recipe for disaster. I thought he'd gotten over it, but apparently not.
Also, remember that match against Byun? Hard to see MVP losing after being 2-0 up in dominant fashion.
And, like Wolf mentioned, Bomber does a lot of BM mule ceremonies - a bit premature when he hasn't achieved anything of note in SC2 yet.
On November 06 2011 16:53 Azzur wrote: I guess this is the reason why bomber hasn't got as much success as his skill would indicate. He has a tendency to choke and is not as consistently solid as MVP.
Anyways, a bizarre game - Coca did his best to lose the game with overextending muta harass and natural counter-attacks but Bomber returns the favour.
I actually felt really bad for Bomber after Wolf gave us a speech about Bomber's choking habits.
You want to become big, but once you do, you feel like you have to live up to everyone's expectations of you, and you just fall apart. Recipe for disaster. I thought he'd gotten over it, but apparently not.
Also, remember that match against Byun? Hard to see MVP losing after being 2-0 up in dominant fashion.
And, like Wolf mentioned, Bomber does a lot of BM mule ceremonies - a bit premature when he hasn't achieved anything of note in SC2 yet.
Sigggghhh. Now I just want to give Bomber a hug and tell him it's all right.
I must be the only person in the world who thinks his BM mule ceremonies are to help with his nerves.
EDIT: Also, Bomber drops mules when he loses too, which I think a lot of people don't realize.
On November 06 2011 16:53 Azzur wrote: I guess this is the reason why bomber hasn't got as much success as his skill would indicate. He has a tendency to choke and is not as consistently solid as MVP.
Anyways, a bizarre game - Coca did his best to lose the game with overextending muta harass and natural counter-attacks but Bomber returns the favour.
I actually felt really bad for Bomber after Wolf gave us a speech about Bomber's choking habits.
You want to become big, but once you do, you feel like you have to live up to everyone's expectations of you, and you just fall apart. Recipe for disaster. I thought he'd gotten over it, but apparently not.
Also, remember that match against Byun? Hard to see MVP losing after being 2-0 up in dominant fashion.
And, like Wolf mentioned, Bomber does a lot of BM mule ceremonies - a bit premature when he hasn't achieved anything of note in SC2 yet.
He won an MLG and code A against MvP. Not quite as good as it should be, but it is achievement.
On November 06 2011 16:54 GGPope wrote: I don't see why everyone's criticising Coca's play that game. I think he played excellently aside from one weak engagement. He was ahead almost the entire game til that one engagement, and then he caught up anyway because his flanks were excellent. I thought it was really nice to watch...
Then he lost his 3rd and 4th to a medivac of marines each. For no reason?
True, but it was still impressive to watch him do very strong flanks/engagements and not lose his leads because of that, for the most part.
Besides, after losing his 3rd, he was still quite ahead at that stage. Losing the 4th was unecessary, though.
On November 06 2011 16:54 GGPope wrote: I don't see why everyone's criticising Coca's play that game. I think he played excellently aside from one weak engagement. He was ahead almost the entire game til that one engagement, and then he caught up anyway because his flanks were excellent. I thought it was really nice to watch...
Then he lost his 3rd and 4th to a medivac of marines each. For no reason?
True, but it was still impressive to watch him do very strong flanks/engagements and not lose his leads because of that, for the most part.
Besides, after losing his 3rd, he was still quite ahead at that stage. Losing the 4th was unecessary, though.
Yeh there was good play there, and Coca deserved the win. But it was a weird game where both players made unforced errors.
On November 06 2011 16:53 Azzur wrote: I guess this is the reason why bomber hasn't got as much success as his skill would indicate. He has a tendency to choke and is not as consistently solid as MVP.
Anyways, a bizarre game - Coca did his best to lose the game with overextending muta harass and natural counter-attacks but Bomber returns the favour.
I actually felt really bad for Bomber after Wolf gave us a speech about Bomber's choking habits.
You want to become big, but once you do, you feel like you have to live up to everyone's expectations of you, and you just fall apart. Recipe for disaster. I thought he'd gotten over it, but apparently not.
Also, remember that match against Byun? Hard to see MVP losing after being 2-0 up in dominant fashion.
And, like Wolf mentioned, Bomber does a lot of BM mule ceremonies - a bit premature when he hasn't achieved anything of note in SC2 yet.
He won an MLG and code A against MvP. Not quite as good as it should be, but it is achievement.
doesnt count imo. A player of his caliber should have already won a GSL or two
On November 06 2011 16:53 Azzur wrote: I guess this is the reason why bomber hasn't got as much success as his skill would indicate. He has a tendency to choke and is not as consistently solid as MVP.
Anyways, a bizarre game - Coca did his best to lose the game with overextending muta harass and natural counter-attacks but Bomber returns the favour.
I actually felt really bad for Bomber after Wolf gave us a speech about Bomber's choking habits.
You want to become big, but once you do, you feel like you have to live up to everyone's expectations of you, and you just fall apart. Recipe for disaster. I thought he'd gotten over it, but apparently not.
Also, remember that match against Byun? Hard to see MVP losing after being 2-0 up in dominant fashion.
And, like Wolf mentioned, Bomber does a lot of BM mule ceremonies - a bit premature when he hasn't achieved anything of note in SC2 yet.
He won an MLG and code A against MvP. Not quite as good as it should be, but it is achievement.
MLG is a reasonable achievement but that Code A was not. This was because it was an old up-and-down format where the Code A winner and runners-up get to pick their opponents. If the Code A final mattered (i.e. in the previous format where they automatically got a Code S spot) then it would've meant something.
On November 06 2011 16:53 Azzur wrote: I guess this is the reason why bomber hasn't got as much success as his skill would indicate. He has a tendency to choke and is not as consistently solid as MVP.
Anyways, a bizarre game - Coca did his best to lose the game with overextending muta harass and natural counter-attacks but Bomber returns the favour.
I actually felt really bad for Bomber after Wolf gave us a speech about Bomber's choking habits.
You want to become big, but once you do, you feel like you have to live up to everyone's expectations of you, and you just fall apart. Recipe for disaster. I thought he'd gotten over it, but apparently not.
Also, remember that match against Byun? Hard to see MVP losing after being 2-0 up in dominant fashion.
And, like Wolf mentioned, Bomber does a lot of BM mule ceremonies - a bit premature when he hasn't achieved anything of note in SC2 yet.
He won an MLG and code A against MvP. Not quite as good as it should be, but it is achievement.
doesnt count imo. A player of his caliber should have already won a GSL or two
Is his caliber really better than MVP or Nestea? I'd say MMA is even higher caliber.
On November 06 2011 16:53 Azzur wrote: I guess this is the reason why bomber hasn't got as much success as his skill would indicate. He has a tendency to choke and is not as consistently solid as MVP.
Anyways, a bizarre game - Coca did his best to lose the game with overextending muta harass and natural counter-attacks but Bomber returns the favour.
I actually felt really bad for Bomber after Wolf gave us a speech about Bomber's choking habits.
You want to become big, but once you do, you feel like you have to live up to everyone's expectations of you, and you just fall apart. Recipe for disaster. I thought he'd gotten over it, but apparently not.
Also, remember that match against Byun? Hard to see MVP losing after being 2-0 up in dominant fashion.
And, like Wolf mentioned, Bomber does a lot of BM mule ceremonies - a bit premature when he hasn't achieved anything of note in SC2 yet.
He won an MLG and code A against MvP. Not quite as good as it should be, but it is achievement.
MLG is a reasonable achievement but that Code A was not. This was because it was an old up-and-down format where the Code A winner and runners-up get to pick their opponents. If the Code A final mattered (i.e. in the previous format where they automatically got a Code S spot) then it would've meant something.
Yeh there was no real prize for winning Code A, but I reckon MvP would have been concerned with getting a title.
Either way, Bombers performance has been disappointing, but its too far to say he hasn't achieved anything of note.
That's why robo play first is very dangerous, if your drop doesn't do anything, you do not have enough stalkers and his economy allows him to make enough mutas to contain you to death. More mutas than you have stalker = Checkmate ZvP basically.
really don't see how protos scan really deal with that. i think protoss really needs something like a blinkable distance between that third and main. but if they do that it breaks the game for early game blink rushes >.< idk
Online tournaments don't really matter all too much for good players... but for bad players they're like everything. When Bomber and Sage lost, I realized that.
On November 06 2011 17:09 sechkie wrote: really don't see how protos scan really deal with that. i think protoss really needs something like a blinkable distance between that third and main. but if they do that it breaks the game for early game blink rushes >.< idk
Templer Tech deal with Mass Muta , so do Pheonix. Sage just didn't adjust his strat to deal with the Zergs tactic
On November 06 2011 17:11 devPLEASE wrote: Online tournaments don't really matter all too much for good players... but for bad players they're like everything. When Bomber and Sage lost, I realized that.
On November 06 2011 17:09 sechkie wrote: really don't see how protos scan really deal with that. i think protoss really needs something like a blinkable distance between that third and main. but if they do that it breaks the game for early game blink rushes >.< idk
Templer Tech deal with Mass Muta , so do Pheonix. Sage just didn't adjust his strat to deal with the Zergs tactic
Sick play by Oz, that was just some pressure too that killed Bomber. Oz was going to start working on double ups next. ^_^ I am going to go catch 100 Terrans in a row going CC first and win every game ever now.
What the hell is up with Bomber and throwing away units and retarded 'counter' pushes / attacks? What does he think he is going to accomplish with that? You are not going to kill a P walking across the map with 5-6 marines. Such poor play in all his games.
About as bad as when Flash kept going 14CC every game and losing. Why? WHY?
Bomber played so bad . I don't know what he was trying to do wasting does marines while taking a third .He should have either all-ined or taken a third and turtle hardcore .
On November 06 2011 16:53 Azzur wrote: I guess this is the reason why bomber hasn't got as much success as his skill would indicate. He has a tendency to choke and is not as consistently solid as MVP.
Anyways, a bizarre game - Coca did his best to lose the game with overextending muta harass and natural counter-attacks but Bomber returns the favour.
I actually felt really bad for Bomber after Wolf gave us a speech about Bomber's choking habits.
You want to become big, but once you do, you feel like you have to live up to everyone's expectations of you, and you just fall apart. Recipe for disaster. I thought he'd gotten over it, but apparently not.
Also, remember that match against Byun? Hard to see MVP losing after being 2-0 up in dominant fashion.
And, like Wolf mentioned, Bomber does a lot of BM mule ceremonies - a bit premature when he hasn't achieved anything of note in SC2 yet.
He won an MLG and code A against MvP. Not quite as good as it should be, but it is achievement.
doesnt count imo. A player of his caliber should have already won a GSL or two
Is his caliber really better than MVP or Nestea? I'd say MMA is even higher caliber.
Im not saying Bomber is better, but hes definitely up there with those three (cept he needs a GSL victory). Every single fan can tell by watching Bomber showing his A games (not today though lol)
On November 06 2011 17:14 Azzur wrote: What a poor game by Bomber - he was doing fine - until he decided to do that silly counterattack with marines...
Although that zealot harass did reasonable damage, bomber was coming back already because of the earlier CC and hence faster workers.
On November 06 2011 17:16 raga4ka wrote: Bomber played so bad . I don't know what he was trying to do wasting does marines while taking a third ...
uhmmm no, he was absurdly behind and he knew it, he was hoping to hit a window where Oz wouldnt have any units after his initial pressure because hed be teching to cybercore getting gasses and additional gateways, Even with those 4-5 extra marines he was getting rolled, Thats also why he tried to sneak another base in.
The deal is if you dont 1 rax expand on korea ladder atm or do damage with a 2 rax reactor, tech lab push the protoss 2 base pressure is alot more refined and no longer all in. Theyve gotten really good at it and this was translate to tournaments to and its showng now.
What a poor game by Bomber - he was doing fine - until he decided to do that silly counterattack with marines...
being down 24 to 12 supply early isnt exactly doing fine
He managed to kill that zealot + stalker and was taking his third. There was 0 reason to do that 6-7 marines attack. He should've just turtled and try and comeback. What has he thinking to do that 6-7 marine attack?
He managed to kill that zealot + stalker and was taking his third. There was 0 reason to do that 6-7 marines attack. He should've just turtled and try and comeback. What has he thinking to do that 6-7 marine attack?
I agree it was terrible decision. But Oz was going to roll him whether he lost those marines are not. It was over when your opponent doubles your supply at the 4 minute mark
On November 06 2011 17:14 Azzur wrote: What a poor game by Bomber - he was doing fine - until he decided to do that silly counterattack with marines...
Although that zealot harass did reasonable damage, bomber was coming back already because of the earlier CC and hence faster workers.
On November 06 2011 17:16 raga4ka wrote: Bomber played so bad . I don't know what he was trying to do wasting does marines while taking a third ...
uhmmm no, he was absurdly behind and he knew it, he was hoping to hit a window where Oz wouldnt have any units after his initial pressure because hed be teching to cybercore getting gasses and additional gateways, Even with those 4-5 extra marines he was getting rolled, Thats also why he tried to sneak another base in.
The deal is if you dont 1 rax expand on korea ladder atm or do damage with a 2 rax reactor, tech lab push the protoss 2 base pressure is alot more refined and no longer all in. Theyve gotten really good at it and this was translate to tournaments to and its showng now.
He sent 6-7 marines with an absurdly long rush-distance and killed 0 units in the attack - any semi-competent protoss would've held it off. I would've understand if he did some kind of attack with more raxes, but to expand and attack? Very poor choice.
On November 06 2011 17:28 blade55555 wrote: bbong needs to be making more hydra's if he's going to go roach/hydra not 5 hydra's rest roaches (and macro better) -_-
I think he should try focus Coca's infestors with his hydras. If they died in the first battle Bboong would have won ages ago.
It's amazing how bad zerg players are at this point in time . The only micro they have to do is split their roaches to have a better concave and not geting their whole army hit by 1 fungal and zergs still don't spread out their units ...
On November 06 2011 17:32 raga4ka wrote: It's amazing how bad zerg players are at this point in time . The only micro they have to do is split their roaches to have a better concave and not geting their whole army hit by 1 fungal and zergs still don't spread out their units ...
There not enough room on basically any map to spread roaches
ITs pointless to split when are of your units are the same range. All it does is prevent some of the units from attacking. Plus the fire line strecthes across half the map
I will rejoice the day roaches go out of favor in ZvZ. Sooooo boring. No micro at all. Hopefully the Viper's Blinding Cloud will bring back speedling and baneling play.
Oz continues to show that he is a very good protoss. Everyone likes to talk about Hero and Sage, but Oz is just simply better. He is a very well rounded player too.
k GGs hope Oz plays MVP next round and stomps him. ^^
Oz continues to show that he is a very good protoss. Everyone likes to talk about Hero and Sage, but Oz is just simply better. He is a very well rounded player too.
Eh idk how Oz is in practice but right now HerO is MUCH better on his stream than he plays in tournaments. He just has that oh so common problem of underpreforming in tournaments, hopefully that will change sometime soon and we can see a full power HerO in GSL matches.
On November 06 2011 17:33 Seeker wrote: Wait... CoCa and BboongBboong are both 2-2, why does BB advance?
The tiebreak system for GOM is that if two players are equal win/loss is that the player who won when they played goes through.
Since BboongBoong beat CoCa he goes through.
Oo.... that is a crap system
How is a head to head tie break a crap system?
Yeah, I really don't get what people are expecting. Like when MVP was in a 3-way 2W2L tie in Group A, he had beaten both the other 2-2 players, so he advanced, and there were a lot of people crying about how stupid that is... I don't get it -.- How is beating the player you're tied with not a legitimate way to tie-break?
On November 06 2011 17:33 Seeker wrote: Wait... CoCa and BboongBboong are both 2-2, why does BB advance?
The tiebreak system for GOM is that if two players are equal win/loss is that the player who won when they played goes through.
Since BboongBoong beat CoCa he goes through.
Oo.... that is a crap system
How is a head to head tie break a crap system?
Yeah, I really don't get what people are expecting. Like when MVP was in a 3-way 2W2L tie in Group A, he had beaten both the other 2-2 players, so he advanced, and there were a lot of people crying about how stupid that is... I don't get it -.- How is beating the player you're tied with not a legitimate way to tie-break?
No. That is not why I was saying it's a crap system.
Coca was 2-1 while BB was 1-2. If BB forces CoCa into a 2-2 tie, then they should play ANOTHER game to determine the winner of that tiebreak is all I'm saying.
On November 06 2011 17:33 Seeker wrote: Wait... CoCa and BboongBboong are both 2-2, why does BB advance?
The tiebreak system for GOM is that if two players are equal win/loss is that the player who won when they played goes through.
Since BboongBoong beat CoCa he goes through.
Oo.... that is a crap system
How is a head to head tie break a crap system?
Yeah, I really don't get what people are expecting. Like when MVP was in a 3-way 2W2L tie in Group A, he had beaten both the other 2-2 players, so he advanced, and there were a lot of people crying about how stupid that is... I don't get it -.- How is beating the player you're tied with not a legitimate way to tie-break?
Nah people just decide on the fairness of a system based on whether their favourite players get through. A protoss got through today, so there are less complains then when MVP got through.
On November 06 2011 17:33 Seeker wrote: Wait... CoCa and BboongBboong are both 2-2, why does BB advance?
The tiebreak system for GOM is that if two players are equal win/loss is that the player who won when they played goes through.
Since BboongBoong beat CoCa he goes through.
Oo.... that is a crap system
How is a head to head tie break a crap system?
Yeah, I really don't get what people are expecting. Like when MVP was in a 3-way 2W2L tie in Group A, he had beaten both the other 2-2 players, so he advanced, and there were a lot of people crying about how stupid that is... I don't get it -.- How is beating the player you're tied with not a legitimate way to tie-break?
No. That is not why I was saying it's a crap system.
Coca was 2-1 while BB was 1-2. If BB forces CoCa into a 2-2 tie, then they should play ANOTHER game to determine the winner of that tiebreak is all I'm saying.
That's actually just a roundabout way of saying that it's a crap system. When MVP was down 0-2, and beat the other two guys and advanced, it's actually the exact same situation - even worse, in fact. So, there's no difference between MVP's situation and BB's - only you perhaps paid attention to the scores this time. In fact, when MVP played Polt, he was 0-2, and Polt was 2-1. When MVP played Line, he was 1-2, and Line was 2-1. I'm sure NesTea's group was similar.
On November 06 2011 17:33 Seeker wrote: Wait... CoCa and BboongBboong are both 2-2, why does BB advance?
The tiebreak system for GOM is that if two players are equal win/loss is that the player who won when they played goes through.
Since BboongBoong beat CoCa he goes through.
Oo.... that is a crap system
How is a head to head tie break a crap system?
Yeah, I really don't get what people are expecting. Like when MVP was in a 3-way 2W2L tie in Group A, he had beaten both the other 2-2 players, so he advanced, and there were a lot of people crying about how stupid that is... I don't get it -.- How is beating the player you're tied with not a legitimate way to tie-break?
No. That is not why I was saying it's a crap system.
Coca was 2-1 while BB was 1-2. If BB forces CoCa into a 2-2 tie, then they should play ANOTHER game to determine the winner of that tiebreak is all I'm saying.
It's a functional system that makes sense. It's not crap, it's not bad, it just makes sense. It's perfectly logical the way they have it. That match was for second place, regardless of the scores of the players, so whoever won that advanced. I can't even see how it's a bad system.
Really? BBoongBBoong? ANYONE else in the group would be better... Highly doubtful he'll do well at all in the coming rounds (but hell, I, and many before me, have clearly been wrong before).
On November 06 2011 17:33 Seeker wrote: Wait... CoCa and BboongBboong are both 2-2, why does BB advance?
The tiebreak system for GOM is that if two players are equal win/loss is that the player who won when they played goes through.
Since BboongBoong beat CoCa he goes through.
Oo.... that is a crap system
How is a head to head tie break a crap system?
Yeah, I really don't get what people are expecting. Like when MVP was in a 3-way 2W2L tie in Group A, he had beaten both the other 2-2 players, so he advanced, and there were a lot of people crying about how stupid that is... I don't get it -.- How is beating the player you're tied with not a legitimate way to tie-break?
No. That is not why I was saying it's a crap system.
Coca was 2-1 while BB was 1-2. If BB forces CoCa into a 2-2 tie, then they should play ANOTHER game to determine the winner of that tiebreak is all I'm saying.
It's a functional system that makes sense. It's not crap, it's not bad, it just makes sense. It's perfectly logical the way they have it. That match was for second place, regardless of the scores of the players, so whoever won that advanced. I can't even see how it's a bad system.
I'm just confused that's all.
Let's say you and I are playing against each other. I am 1-2, and you are 2-1. I defeated you. But I advance? How come? We both equally lost 2 games and won 2. Yes I beat you. But you also beat someone I didn't beat. Why me? Why do I advance?
On November 06 2011 19:29 Poopi wrote: Bomber losing every TvP? I knew that TvP is almost impossible right now, even Polt loses it, but still . Poor Bomber
Well bomber lost both matches due to stupid moves really. But it seems that TvP is getting back to normal winrates. Even MC has been beating MVP consistently, maybe it isn't that imbalanced after all?
On November 06 2011 17:33 Seeker wrote: Wait... CoCa and BboongBboong are both 2-2, why does BB advance?
The tiebreak system for GOM is that if two players are equal win/loss is that the player who won when they played goes through.
Since BboongBoong beat CoCa he goes through.
Oo.... that is a crap system
How is a head to head tie break a crap system?
Yeah, I really don't get what people are expecting. Like when MVP was in a 3-way 2W2L tie in Group A, he had beaten both the other 2-2 players, so he advanced, and there were a lot of people crying about how stupid that is... I don't get it -.- How is beating the player you're tied with not a legitimate way to tie-break?
No. That is not why I was saying it's a crap system.
Coca was 2-1 while BB was 1-2. If BB forces CoCa into a 2-2 tie, then they should play ANOTHER game to determine the winner of that tiebreak is all I'm saying.
It's a functional system that makes sense. It's not crap, it's not bad, it just makes sense. It's perfectly logical the way they have it. That match was for second place, regardless of the scores of the players, so whoever won that advanced. I can't even see how it's a bad system.
I'm just confused that's all.
Let's say you and I are playing against each other. I am 1-2, and you are 2-1. I defeated you. But I advance? How come? We both equally lost 2 games and won 2. Yes I beat you. But you also beat someone I didn't beat. Why me? Why do I advance?
How is that confusing, are you trying to suggest that transitivity holds all the time? (A<B and B<C means A<C). You both won two and lost two so who advances is decided by the result of how you and your opponent matched up directly
On November 06 2011 17:33 Seeker wrote: Wait... CoCa and BboongBboong are both 2-2, why does BB advance?
The tiebreak system for GOM is that if two players are equal win/loss is that the player who won when they played goes through.
Since BboongBoong beat CoCa he goes through.
Oo.... that is a crap system
How is a head to head tie break a crap system?
Yeah, I really don't get what people are expecting. Like when MVP was in a 3-way 2W2L tie in Group A, he had beaten both the other 2-2 players, so he advanced, and there were a lot of people crying about how stupid that is... I don't get it -.- How is beating the player you're tied with not a legitimate way to tie-break?
No. That is not why I was saying it's a crap system.
Coca was 2-1 while BB was 1-2. If BB forces CoCa into a 2-2 tie, then they should play ANOTHER game to determine the winner of that tiebreak is all I'm saying.
It's a functional system that makes sense. It's not crap, it's not bad, it just makes sense. It's perfectly logical the way they have it. That match was for second place, regardless of the scores of the players, so whoever won that advanced. I can't even see how it's a bad system.
I'm just confused that's all.
Let's say you and I are playing against each other. I am 1-2, and you are 2-1. I defeated you. But I advance? How come? We both equally lost 2 games and won 2. Yes I beat you. But you also beat someone I didn't beat. Why me? Why do I advance?
How is that confusing, are you trying to suggest that transitivity holds all the time? (A<B and B<C means A<C). You both won two and lost two so who advances is decided by the result of how you and your opponent matched up directly
Tiebreak system is not "crap". But I agree with Seeker that a playoff is even better.
However, a tiebreak system is more economical for GOM, I think. Saves time.
Glad that Oz is continuing to impress. I feel sorry for Sage, though: it seems to be one of those players that, right now, are almost there with their skillset, but can't quite manage to achieve much (which seems to often be the case with NSHSeo: jjackji and seal are two more names that come to mind).
On November 06 2011 22:33 K3Nyy wrote: Did Bomber have an off day or something, how did he lose 3 games? ><"
I don't know. Its obvious he has the talent and skills but he keeps making stupid move all the time. Hurts to be a bomber fan. Hes like MKP who keeps screwing up with his builds/army composition, except that he chokes much much more, sometimes even from winning positions.
I think the fact that he loves to BM so much every game is actually a way of him controlling his nerves and reminding himself that he is the better player, and rightly so, because his macro is probably the best in the world.
e.g., both A, B got 2:2 record and A beat B before
A, B got to pay a playoff again, so that B may advance even record between them is 1:1 , why the second match between them is more important than the first match between them?
for whoever consider MVP advancing is not fair, just consider that as a mini-league between those three players and MVP got 2-0 in that mini-league
On November 06 2011 19:29 Poopi wrote: Bomber losing every TvP? I knew that TvP is almost impossible right now, even Polt loses it, but still . Poor Bomber
Well bomber lost both matches due to stupid moves really. But it seems that TvP is getting back to normal winrates. Even MC has been beating MVP consistently, maybe it isn't that imbalanced after all?
I did a quick count of post-1.4 games and TvP stands at nearly 44-43 (give or take a few wins for both races as it was a rather quick estimate) in Korean TLPD. Even though the sample size is small, there is at-least a lack of clear dominance for either race and this suggests that the last patch changes did work.
On November 07 2011 00:03 SniXSniPe wrote: Of all people... BBoong made it through?
Well, it's surprising but not that much of an upset, BBBB is pretty good. And Oz is a boss anyway. Just watching now after seeing the results, Sage is really too good at scouting. In game 1 he denies the hidden 4th multiple times, so sick. Also, DOA, stop saying "I mean" in every single sentence ! I mean is not a punctuation mark :p I don't know how it sounds for native english speakers, but as a non natural english speaker it make it look like everything you say is unnatural...dunno how to explain it better. It weakens the flow of the conversation, bleh, I don't know how to explain it well in english. You're a good caster and I like you a lot, imo if you force yourself to avoid those 2 words you'll gain a caster level =)
Wow,Oz continues to impress me.Sage is way too overrated now although his play is good overall Oz is currently looking much better than Sage.Bomber losing is somewhat surprising was expecting him to crush this group.
does someone know why the first vod isnt for free like the one of group a? i didnt watch it because i wanted to sleep a bit longer and now i cant watch it >.<
This was such an easy group for Oz… if Oz were in any other group he'd have a bad score. Bomber doesn't care, Sage bad PvP, CoCa bad nerve issues, and well BboongBboong is BboongBboong.
On November 07 2011 00:50 devPLEASE wrote: This was such an easy group for Oz… if Oz were in any other group he'd have a bad score. Bomber doesn't care, Sage bad PvP, CoCa bad nerve issues, and well BboongBboong is BboongBboong.
Or if he won anyway, you'd still have an excuse for every other player.
How convenient to say that CoCa has bad nerve issues when he's always done well against Protoss players in tournament matches. Oh wait, he's lost to Oz before in the ESV Bo3. Maybe it's not nerve issues, but that Oz is legitimately better. After all, BboongBboong is also a ZvP beast with a 75% record vs P. The only legitimate excuse is that Sage has bad PvP. Bomber despite not playing to his full potential lately is still performing well against Z and P. It's just his TvT that has been shaky.
I'm really surprised about Bomber here. I guess either he has the same mindset as Nestea and MVP ("if it isn't GSL, I don't care") or he had a really bad day. He usually looks terrifying, not mediocre.
On November 07 2011 00:50 devPLEASE wrote: This was such an easy group for Oz… if Oz were in any other group he'd have a bad score. Bomber doesn't care, Sage bad PvP, CoCa bad nerve issues, and well BboongBboong is BboongBboong.
CoCa is easily top 3 zvp in the world. If he manages to consistently destroy protoss in Code S season after season, I guarantee his nerves wouldn't have been an issue in this AoL series. The stats don't lie about BbongBbong's zvp either, he's good at the matchup. Bomber is often regarded as the best TvP player in the world. Sage is bad at PvP... but they didn't even play each other in the end.
Obviously Oz is just a player you genuinely don't like, we all have them. Try and wait until he provides you with something to hate on him for next time though, because he played a super impressive series of games against legitimate opposition tonight.
Wow Bomber... I can't believe those results, especially losing to Coca and Oz who from what I remember are not that good against terran. Not sure what to say. I'm not surprised Bboong made it out, and I did have Oz as the third place finisher... but damn! Well I am very interested to see if Oz can do the same in the GSL individuals against 2 more terrans (Taeja and Nada) and then a rematch with Coca.
On November 06 2011 17:33 Seeker wrote: Wait... CoCa and BboongBboong are both 2-2, why does BB advance?
The tiebreak system for GOM is that if two players are equal win/loss is that the player who won when they played goes through.
Since BboongBoong beat CoCa he goes through.
Oo.... that is a crap system
How is a head to head tie break a crap system?
Yeah, I really don't get what people are expecting. Like when MVP was in a 3-way 2W2L tie in Group A, he had beaten both the other 2-2 players, so he advanced, and there were a lot of people crying about how stupid that is... I don't get it -.- How is beating the player you're tied with not a legitimate way to tie-break?
No. That is not why I was saying it's a crap system.
Coca was 2-1 while BB was 1-2. If BB forces CoCa into a 2-2 tie, then they should play ANOTHER game to determine the winner of that tiebreak is all I'm saying.
It's a functional system that makes sense. It's not crap, it's not bad, it just makes sense. It's perfectly logical the way they have it. That match was for second place, regardless of the scores of the players, so whoever won that advanced. I can't even see how it's a bad system.
I'm just confused that's all.
Let's say you and I are playing against each other. I am 1-2, and you are 2-1. I defeated you. But I advance? How come? We both equally lost 2 games and won 2. Yes I beat you. But you also beat someone I didn't beat. Why me? Why do I advance?
How is that confusing, are you trying to suggest that transitivity holds all the time? (A
Ugh.... okay.... I will try to explain myself one more time.
CoCa was 2-1
BB was 1-2
Coca lost to BB and therefore now they're both 2-2.
This means that BB did not accomplish more than CoCa. Yes, he beat CoCa, but it wasn't like CoCa had lost to BB previously that night. That was their first encounter. So what I want to know is, why does BB who is the same 2-2 as CoCa, advance, when CoCa, has the exact same amount of wins and losses as BB does?
On November 06 2011 17:33 Seeker wrote: Wait... CoCa and BboongBboong are both 2-2, why does BB advance?
The tiebreak system for GOM is that if two players are equal win/loss is that the player who won when they played goes through.
Since BboongBoong beat CoCa he goes through.
Oo.... that is a crap system
How is a head to head tie break a crap system?
Yeah, I really don't get what people are expecting. Like when MVP was in a 3-way 2W2L tie in Group A, he had beaten both the other 2-2 players, so he advanced, and there were a lot of people crying about how stupid that is... I don't get it -.- How is beating the player you're tied with not a legitimate way to tie-break?
No. That is not why I was saying it's a crap system.
Coca was 2-1 while BB was 1-2. If BB forces CoCa into a 2-2 tie, then they should play ANOTHER game to determine the winner of that tiebreak is all I'm saying.
It's a functional system that makes sense. It's not crap, it's not bad, it just makes sense. It's perfectly logical the way they have it. That match was for second place, regardless of the scores of the players, so whoever won that advanced. I can't even see how it's a bad system.
I'm just confused that's all.
Let's say you and I are playing against each other. I am 1-2, and you are 2-1. I defeated you. But I advance? How come? We both equally lost 2 games and won 2. Yes I beat you. But you also beat someone I didn't beat. Why me? Why do I advance?
How is that confusing, are you trying to suggest that transitivity holds all the time? (A<B and B<C means A<C). You both won two and lost two so who advances is decided by the result of how you and your opponent matched up directly
Ugh.... okay.... I will try to explain myself one more time.
CoCa was 2-1
BB was 1-2
Coca lost to BB and therefore now they're both 2-2.
This means that BB did not accomplish more than CoCa. Yes, he beat CoCa, but it wasn't like CoCa had lost to BB previously that night. That was their first encounter. So what I want to know is, why does BB who is the same 2-2 as CoCa, advance, when CoCa, has the exact same amount of wins and losses as BB does?
CoCa > Sage CoCa > Bomber CoCa < Oz CoCa < BB
BB > Sage BB > CoCa BB < Bomber BB < Oz
Where does it make sense that BB advances?
It's in the rules of the event. That's why he advances.
Bomber playing so sloppy and careless...This is not the Bomber that I got used to see ....maybe what wolf and doa said about him losing confidence is true
On November 06 2011 17:35 MrSweetNess wrote: [quote] The tiebreak system for GOM is that if two players are equal win/loss is that the player who won when they played goes through.
Since BboongBoong beat CoCa he goes through.
Oo.... that is a crap system
How is a head to head tie break a crap system?
Yeah, I really don't get what people are expecting. Like when MVP was in a 3-way 2W2L tie in Group A, he had beaten both the other 2-2 players, so he advanced, and there were a lot of people crying about how stupid that is... I don't get it -.- How is beating the player you're tied with not a legitimate way to tie-break?
No. That is not why I was saying it's a crap system.
Coca was 2-1 while BB was 1-2. If BB forces CoCa into a 2-2 tie, then they should play ANOTHER game to determine the winner of that tiebreak is all I'm saying.
It's a functional system that makes sense. It's not crap, it's not bad, it just makes sense. It's perfectly logical the way they have it. That match was for second place, regardless of the scores of the players, so whoever won that advanced. I can't even see how it's a bad system.
I'm just confused that's all.
Let's say you and I are playing against each other. I am 1-2, and you are 2-1. I defeated you. But I advance? How come? We both equally lost 2 games and won 2. Yes I beat you. But you also beat someone I didn't beat. Why me? Why do I advance?
How is that confusing, are you trying to suggest that transitivity holds all the time? (A<B and B<C means A<C). You both won two and lost two so who advances is decided by the result of how you and your opponent matched up directly
Ugh.... okay.... I will try to explain myself one more time.
CoCa was 2-1
BB was 1-2
Coca lost to BB and therefore now they're both 2-2.
This means that BB did not accomplish more than CoCa. Yes, he beat CoCa, but it wasn't like CoCa had lost to BB previously that night. That was their first encounter. So what I want to know is, why does BB who is the same 2-2 as CoCa, advance, when CoCa, has the exact same amount of wins and losses as BB does?
CoCa > Sage CoCa > Bomber CoCa < Oz CoCa < BB
BB > Sage BB > CoCa BB < Bomber BB < Oz
Where does it make sense that BB advances?
It's in the rules of the event. That's why he advances.
/discussion
The first tie breaker is head to head, the second tie breaker is maps won/lost.
It doesnt matter who youve beaten in your other games. What your not realising is that BB accomplished more than Coca by being better than him by beating him head to head and having an equal score. . Just because Coca beat two other players other than BB doesnt mean hes better why ? Thats how the rules work.
Because he lost to BB and they ended up with the same score.
Essentially since Bomber had already ruled himself out of the group by losing 3 games, it didnt matter who had beaten him, as for Sage he had a chance to go for 2-2 aswell if he beat Oz,
You could ask "But sage only played 3 games? Why didnt he get to play a 4th game and tie for second like Coca and BB, simple hed lost to both of them so he was already out of the chase on the basis of a poor head to head.
What it basically ended up being was that by virtue of Bomber and Sage having no chance of Qualifying the only game Coca and BB played was basically like a knockout, It seems unfair that Coca won more games against other opponents than BB but the fact of the matter is in total he didnt win more games and he had a poorer head to head.
When 2 players have the same score (regardless of who they won against) you look at how they did when they played each other and that is your tie breaker.