fOrGG (otherwise known as oGs.Fin) has made it into GSL Code A. With Bisu and Fantasy playing Starcraft 2 at Blizzcon, the KT house getting all new computers and displays that have the components needed for starcraft 2, who are we going to see next?
EDIT: In the below spoiler is the basis of the KT comment. + Show Spoiler +
fOrGG (otherwise known as oGs.Fin) has made it into GSL Code A. With Bisu and Fantasy playing Starcraft 2 at Blizzcon, the KT house getting all new computers and displays that have the components needed for starcraft 2, who are we going to see next?
hm the next one? wait for him 2 go inactive in Broodwar. then wait atleast 2 months and then u migh thave a new one.
On October 26 2011 20:24 Zephirdd wrote: If the KT house decides to switch to SC2...
The current scene is doomed.
it will be like the great flood sweeping away all the blasphemous meatbags so that the chosen ones can descend from the ark and create a luscious, new world of purity and greatness.
Yeah I understand this, but since he was such a legend in Broodwar and he just made his appearance I thought it would be worth the new thread. Of course a mod can close it if it is too redundant x.x.
The end is now, for all the "semi pros" out there. Soon all currently Code A and most of Code S will be gone into Code B when the invation begins... :D
Yeah I understand this, but since he was such a legend in Broodwar and he just made his appearance I thought it would be worth the new thread. Of course a mod can close it if it is too redundant x.x.
Yeah I understand this, but since he was such a legend in Broodwar and he just made his appearance I thought it would be worth the new thread. Of course a mod can close it if it is too redundant x.x.
A legend in BW? What? He was good. But having a 50% winrate does not make you a legend. He was an A class player, and only very briefly.
Yeah I understand this, but since he was such a legend in Broodwar and he just made his appearance I thought it would be worth the new thread. Of course a mod can close it if it is too redundant x.x.
i wouldn't say he is a legend tbh.
Are you kidding? Compared to most of the pros (execpt for maybe Nada, July & Boxer) he is deifitnly a legend. The master of timing attacks is here!
edit: during his prime he had way more than 50% win rate
Yeah I understand this, but since he was such a legend in Broodwar and he just made his appearance I thought it would be worth the new thread. Of course a mod can close it if it is too redundant x.x.
i wouldn't say he is a legend tbh.
Are you kidding? Compared to most of the pros (execpt for maybe Nada, July & Boxer) he is deifitnly a legend. The master of timing attacks is here!
edit: during his prime he had way more than 50% win rate
it's honestly extremely hard to tell if you're joking or not.
was expecting this honestly, saw him playing in ESV tournaments and he is amazing, sometimes tho he makes some blunders but overall you can see that his timing based play is still here in sc2 too, it's going to be hard for his opponents to defeat him if he's going to play properly, and with all of his stage experience i think he will go very deep this code A and hopefully get into code S quickly.
Yeah I understand this, but since he was such a legend in Broodwar and he just made his appearance I thought it would be worth the new thread. Of course a mod can close it if it is too redundant x.x.
i wouldn't say he is a legend tbh.
Are you kidding? Compared to most of the pros (execpt for maybe Nada, July & Boxer) he is deifitnly a legend. The master of timing attacks is here!
edit: during his prime he had way more than 50% win rate
it's honestly extremely hard to tell if you're joking or not.
I'm not joking. It depends on who you are comparing him to. But compared to any other former BW player like Puma, MC or MvP, ForGG is definitly a legend. Compared to Jaedong, Bisu & Flash, maybe not. Though he is definitly a legend when it comes to timing attacks, and one of my favorite Terrans (as you can see ^^)
Yeah I understand this, but since he was such a legend in Broodwar and he just made his appearance I thought it would be worth the new thread. Of course a mod can close it if it is too redundant x.x.
i wouldn't say he is a legend tbh.
Are you kidding? Compared to most of the pros (execpt for maybe Nada, July & Boxer) he is deifitnly a legend. The master of timing attacks is here!
edit: during his prime he had way more than 50% win rate
it's honestly extremely hard to tell if you're joking or not.
I'm not joking. It depends on who you are comparing him to. But compared to any other former BW player like Puma, MC or MvP, ForGG is definitly a legend. Compared to Jaedong, Bisu & Flash, maybe not. Though he is definitly a legend when it comes to timing attacks, and one of my favorite Terrans (as you can see ^^)
Compared to Puma MC or MVP ForGG is definitely a bonjwa. Compared to Jaedong Bisu and Flash hes maybe not bonjwa. In SC2 he may be not a bonjwa like Stephano but if he wins Code A he would definitely join all the other current bonjwas like MVP and Nestea.
Yeah I understand this, but since he was such a legend in Broodwar and he just made his appearance I thought it would be worth the new thread. Of course a mod can close it if it is too redundant x.x.
i wouldn't say he is a legend tbh.
Are you kidding? Compared to most of the pros (execpt for maybe Nada, July & Boxer) he is deifitnly a legend. The master of timing attacks is here!
edit: during his prime he had way more than 50% win rate
it's honestly extremely hard to tell if you're joking or not.
I'm not joking. It depends on who you are comparing him to. But compared to any other former BW player like Puma, MC or MvP, ForGG is definitly a legend. Compared to Jaedong, Bisu & Flash, maybe not. Though he is definitly a legend when it comes to timing attacks, and one of my favorite Terrans (as you can see ^^)
nice thinking of "legends" there is not "if u do that he can become a legend" just because there are players that are 346537845times worse then him (and he is still just average/bit above average) doesnt mean he is a legend Oo
and plz stop throwing bonjwa around so freaking much.
i remember a lot of people considering him as S-class (forgg) especially right as he 3-0'd jaedong in a major league finals. he was pretty good in all matchups except vs P if i remember correctly.
legend = legendary = godly good at some point in time. and while forgg was pretty close to it in his prime shape----not quite there imo, and too short of a stretch of time, so i really wouldn't go calling him a 'legend' exactly.
forgg has been playing sc2 for a long while now, i'd say atleast 4 months surely has the talent though to show some great comeback games at some point : D
Having high expectations to forGG, but currently his game isn't up to a good level yet (at least compared to the high expectations I have for him). I hope he can improve enough (that he will improve a lot is undoubted) till the start of Code A to be able to hold his ground. That should be his first goal.
Otherwise, of course congratulations and well done!
Eh, really don't like the speculation that OP is implying in the second half of his post. It inevitably will lead to some SC2 vs BW debates, which are never pretty.
Other than that, it's awesome to see ForGG making it through. I look forward to his GSL career.
Yeah I understand this, but since he was such a legend in Broodwar and he just made his appearance I thought it would be worth the new thread. Of course a mod can close it if it is too redundant x.x.
i wouldn't say he is a legend tbh.
Are you kidding? Compared to most of the pros (execpt for maybe Nada, July & Boxer) he is deifitnly a legend. The master of timing attacks is here!
edit: during his prime he had way more than 50% win rate
it's honestly extremely hard to tell if you're joking or not.
I'm not joking. It depends on who you are comparing him to. But compared to any other former BW player like Puma, MC or MvP, ForGG is definitly a legend. Compared to Jaedong, Bisu & Flash, maybe not. Though he is definitly a legend when it comes to timing attacks, and one of my favorite Terrans (as you can see ^^)
How many legends are there in broodwar then? 50? Saying ForGG is a legend really devalues the term.
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
the reason why it's hard to understand may be because of all the different skills needed in SC1------and it certainly wasn't easy to understand how amazing some of the players were until you actually got to trying to mimic their play and the situations they create. i can't exactly paint a picture for you, but game-sense//star-sense is a gigantic asset for a player. a little corny---but if you know about the gundam series, LOL... it's like being a new-type and being able to foresee, predict, and react near-perfectly despite actually seeing very little (or what would seem like it to others).
you don't lose the feeling/ideas of game-sense easily. and even if you don't have it, you have the experience of having had it before, and so you'll want to attain it again. obviously it's not an otherworldly talent and such, and the current pros have built up so much experience that they have a gigantic advantage.... but maybe think of, a renowned painter going into a charcoal medium class, or clay pottery---anything on those lines. when it comes to the entire learning process and producing work, there will be steps along the way that are completely natural, such as painting the pottery or having to use a finish.
i can only imagine that an accomplished pro has amazing standards for themself. guess what happens when their skill boundaries are being forcibly pushed? it's not just fandom or wanting these players to do well. there's also an (sometimes) inexplicable feeling that if these players switched, they certainly wouldn't let their previous fans down, or themselves either. so once again, it's natural to expect good things from them.
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
Well, i'm a SC2 fan but i caught the proleague ace match, flash vs best. It looked like a normal game of sc2 to me until i remembered that they can't select more than a certain amount of units per control group, have to move their own scvs to the minerals, and have to friggin click on their buildings to produce stuff, and they still are able to play this game as fluid and with as much action as a SC2 pro game. Then i finally realised how godly these guys will be if they transferred over and understood the game.
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
Well, i'm a SC2 fan but i caught the proleague ace match, flash vs best. It looked like a normal game of sc2 to me until i remembered that they can't select more than a certain amount of units per control group, have to move their own scvs to the minerals, and have to friggin click on their buildings to produce stuff, and they still are able to play this game as fluid and with as much action as a SC2 pro game. Then i finally realised how godly these guys will be if they transferred over and understood the game.
But that's also the same reason why it could be possible that these guys don't dominate as much as in BW. Because the skill gap gets smaller due to MBS, automine, >12 units selection. Still the mechanics translate easier and these guys would definitely be doing very well in SC2.
So what race did he pick up? What kind of player is he if anyone knows? If he truly is a legend AND a macro intensive player, he MUST pick Zerg! (everything else is s waste) :D
I think if HotS comes out and is reasonably balanced, you will see a huge influx of BW pros switching over and dominating the scene. While it may be a huge career statement if someone can be at the top across all of BW, WoL, HotS, and LotV the fact is that the game is going to "completely" change two times over with the release of the subsequent expansions. That is probably holding people back, especially those who experienced the massive shift from original SC to BW.
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
If one of your favorite players switches to another game, wouldn't you be excited to watch them play a game you like as well? Ofuckingcourse you would! I'm really looking forward to his upcoming games. Someone already explained why people think BW players will be explained and I'm too lazy to do it too so yeah I more so know than think that BW players will be not instantly amazing, but will be amazing pretty quickly.
On October 26 2011 21:32 WaSa wrote: So what race did he pick up? What kind of player is he if anyone knows? If he truly is a legend AND a macro intensive player, he MUST pick Zerg! (everything else is s waste) :D
he's a T. He was known for his EXTREMELY strong timing attacks. If that translates over to sc2 as well...
With Bisu and Fantasy playing Starcraft 2 at Blizzcon, the KT house getting all new computers and displays that have the components needed for starcraft 2, who are we going to see next?
Yeah I understand this, but since he was such a legend in Broodwar and he just made his appearance I thought it would be worth the new thread. Of course a mod can close it if it is too redundant x.x.
i wouldn't say he is a legend tbh.
Are you kidding? Compared to most of the pros (execpt for maybe Nada, July & Boxer) he is deifitnly a legend. The master of timing attacks is here!
edit: during his prime he had way more than 50% win rate
it's honestly extremely hard to tell if you're joking or not.
I'm not joking. It depends on who you are comparing him to. But compared to any other former BW player like Puma, MC or MvP, ForGG is definitly a legend. Compared to Jaedong, Bisu & Flash, maybe not. Though he is definitly a legend when it comes to timing attacks, and one of my favorite Terrans (as you can see ^^)
You're using the term 'legend' way too lightly. A legend is something that stands out and holds weight on its own, not just comparatively.
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
As the above posters, yes.
I see the general feeling here is yes totally. But they are considered very different games and I know lots of people say 'oh well sc2 is ezmode'
I don't buy into that, maybe because I wanna believe I am a better RTS player than I am or maybe because they are rather different mechanically.
I wish this guy all the best anyway and I will stop derailing this thread with my confusion now.
lets just give you one more example for your own point (that the games are in fact very different, etc.)
zergbong, a.k.a nestea when tastosis first saw him playing in GSL and certainly when many fans of BW were watching those games, we were totally expecting him to bomb out the way he did in the early seasons. i'm guessing practically noone was owing that fact (that he wouldn't play so well) to how the games were different, and had poor expectations of him because of his performance in BW.
some people were still overlooking the fact that he was a team captain of KTF for a long time, or that he predominantly played 2v2 only. i think he said somewhere in an interview that he concentrated on 2v2 rather than 1v1, and the transition to the latter was very disappointing and somewhat awkward for him. some people who knew him also said he had a very good practice mentality, and thought he would do a lot better if he had devoted himself to 1v1 from the very start.
skip a couple months into the later open seasons of GSL and nestea is wowing tastosis, and finally steals artosis' heart when he acheives somewhat of a royal road only after participating in a few seasons of GSL. this was completely unexpected, and i'm getting unecessary long-winded, but i hope you understand that our expectations of zergbong as a player wasn't completely baseless, nor was that opinion completely educated. some of us just refused to see how he could be accepted as a team captain of one of the strongest teams.
to restate my point earlier in a different way, a player only stays on top for as long as the player continues to evolve and increase/lengthen his level. a player who dominates has all the key features in his practice and play which makes him hard to surmount. if you would take the dominant players of sc1 and shove them onto sc2, you would have a convincing base of a player who would perform well no matter what. i think it's slightly more this, than all the elitism about sc2 just being a dumbed down game. the elitism might just be something that asserts that some people don't, and won't understand the game that the players hold close to themselves. the pros aren't there for the sole purpose of proving that they can play a -simpler- game at a higher level than others (people whos experience in RTS pales in comparison to them). i also think it's kind of disrespectful to think it's part of the pro's perspective. i'd just ignore it and try to be indifferent to all the extreme comments that people make to that whole BW vs sc2 stuff Lol...
On October 26 2011 21:38 Milkis wrote: Also another terrible assumption is that people think BW players will give a fuck about Code A/S when they swap over to SC2
On October 26 2011 21:32 WaSa wrote: So what race did he pick up? What kind of player is he if anyone knows? If he truly is a legend AND a macro intensive player, he MUST pick Zerg! (everything else is s waste) :D
he's a T. He was known for his EXTREMELY strong timing attacks. If that translates over to sc2 as well...
On October 26 2011 21:38 Milkis wrote: Also another terrible assumption is that people think BW players will give a fuck about Code A/S when they swap over to SC2
On October 26 2011 21:38 Milkis wrote: Also another terrible assumption is that people think BW players will give a fuck about Code A/S when they swap over to SC2
What do you mean with this?
The way I interpret it is: "BW players are dirty-rich, thus they do not care whether they are competing for ~$40,000USD (?) or a measly code A stipend".
Which seems strange because if it were me, I would want to compete for more money regardless of how much money I already have. As a BW pro I would also want to play the upper tier of competition in SC2 regardless of the fact that I'm allegedly already the "upper tier (via BW experience, assuming the little being good at BW = god at SC2 thing)". I would want to show everyone just how easy it is for SC2 to be dominated by BW gods!
On October 26 2011 20:36 WArped wrote: He was pretty quick to qualify.
Certainly quicker than Yellow How is he doing btw ? Last time I saw him on some tv program trying to make it to code A but not managing.
Think yellow gave up on the game Don't think hes gonna try qualifying again cause i never heard any news from him. Well ForGG is a better player than yellow anyways, so i wouldn't be surprised that he qualified so quickly.
On October 26 2011 21:38 Milkis wrote: Also another terrible assumption is that people think BW players will give a fuck about Code A/S when they swap over to SC2
What do you mean with this?
The way I interpret it is: "BW players are dirty-rich, thus they do not care whether they are competing for ~$40,000USD (?) or a measly code A stipend".
Which seems strange because if it were me, I would want to compete for more money regardless of how much money I already have. As a BW pro I would also want to play the upper tier of competition in SC2 regardless of the fact that I'm allegedly already the "upper tier (via BW experience, assuming the little being good at BW = god at SC2 thing)". I would want to show everyone just how easy it is for SC2 to be dominated by BW gods!
I agree with you completly, but I guess we will just have to wait and see.. :/
On October 26 2011 21:38 Milkis wrote: Also another terrible assumption is that people think BW players will give a fuck about Code A/S when they swap over to SC2
What do you mean with this?
OGN will probably have its own league
when the players pick up the game and test themselves against all the other existing pros, the results they'll have in code A & S won't be the entire story of the beginning of their career w/ the game. there might be other leagues//a proleague for teams, and there might be fans who had expected better results in the current A/S... and so letting the negativity affect their progress could be something they couldn't care less about.
On October 26 2011 21:38 Milkis wrote: OMG this A teamer BW pro who was about to be demoted into the KT B team made it past code A!
Also another terrible assumption is that people think BW players will give a fuck about Code A/S when they swap over to SC2
why would they not give a fuck about making it to code s? do they not enjoy winning or money? it may not be as important to them as some fringe sc2 player who would love the code s stipend, but saying they dont give a fuck at all is silly.
You made it through the Code A qualifiers on your first try.
The maps were not very good. On top of that there was a weird patch so it was really difficult. However I'm happy that my hard work paid off in results.
Which match was the hardest today?
The final match against wOn was the hardest. First off the maps were not Terran favoured. I'm not sure if it's because they're trying to tweak the balance, but it's changed for the worse for Terrans. They should have changed the Code S maps first, I don't know why they changed the Code A maps first. So that made it difficult for me.
It hasn't even been a month since you announced you were making the switch to SC2. Are you happy with the speed with which you are Conquering?
This qualifier is the last one this year so I didn't want to miss this opportunity. If I didn't make it I wouldn't have the chance to play this year, but it worked out the way I wanted.
Out of all the players who switched from BW you are the one with the most recent championship so a lot of fans are looking forward to how you do.
I am aware of the fan's anticipations. However the time that I won was short and it was a long time ago so I don't remember it anymore. I want to return to my roots and play games.
You chose oGs because of your connection with oGsGon. But he is entering the army soon.
I am a little disappointed, but it's not like he's leaving as soon as I joined. Now I'm somewhat settled in with my teammates so I don't have any worries. He is getting up there in age so I'm hoping he settles into the military life well.
Terrans are playing the part of the villains in the GSL. You are also a Terran, does that matter to you?
It doesn't matter. Terran players prepare to win so there ends up being all-ins and strong builds, but it was unfortunate that all they get in return is criticism. I'm also a gamer and a Terran so I could empathize with them.
Thanks to the changes to the format the qualifiers and even getting into Code S have gotten a little easier.
I think it worked out well for me. It's a format that allows Code A players to have an easier time of moving up. For now I'm just satisfied with making it into the GSL and I will be working towards my next goal.
What is your first Code A goal?
For now it's getting into Code S.
You'll be starting from Code A but is there anyone you want to face in Code S?
If I get the chance I hope to play with Nestea hyung. Before I joined oGs I played against Nestea-hyung to try and understand the TvZ match up and I ended up losing every game. I've gotten a bit better at TvZ so I want to face him again.
How long do you think it will take before you conquer SC2?
I have no idea either. If I had some game sense I wouldn't be nervous at all and playing in official matches wouldn't be much of a burden, but right now my understanding of the game is still not that great compared to BW so I'm not sure. However I think it might be possible within one year.
What is your ultimate goal that you want to achieve with your switch to SC2?
For now winning Code S is my biggest goal. I haven't set any other detailed goals other than that. I'm thinking of just taking it one match at a time in preparation.
Is there anything you'd like to say before we end this interview?
Today is my mother's brithday. Thankfully I was able to win and do an interview. Happy birthday mother. And oGsGon-hyung has decided to go to the army. I was able to join oGs thanks to oGsGon, but it's not like he's leaving permanently so I hope he takes care of himself. In the real deal I beg that the maps are a bit more balanced. I am the only Terran that made it through today. It's way too harsh. Lastly, thank you to our sponsors Mom's Touch and Corsair.
How long do you think it will take before you conquer SC2?
I have no idea either. If I had some game sense I wouldn't be nervous at all and playing in official matches wouldn't be much of a burden, but right now my understanding of the game is still not that great compared to BW so I'm not sure. However I think it might be possible within one year.
How long do you think it will take before you conquer SC2?
I have no idea either. If I had some game sense I wouldn't be nervous at all and playing in official matches wouldn't be much of a burden, but right now my understanding of the game is still not that great compared to BW so I'm not sure. However I think it might be possible within one year.
On October 26 2011 22:07 Clefairy wrote: You made it through the Code A qualifiers on your first try.
The maps were not very good. On top of that there was a weird patch so it was really difficult. However I'm happy that my hard work paid off in results.
Which match was the hardest today?
The final match against wOn was the hardest. First off the maps were not Terran favoured. I'm not sure if it's because they're trying to tweak the balance, but it's changed for the worse for Terrans. They should have changed the Code S maps first, I don't know why they changed the Code A maps first. So that made it difficult for me.
It hasn't even been a month since you announced you were making the switch to SC2. Are you happy with the speed with which you are Conquering?
This qualifier is the last one this year so I didn't want to miss this opportunity. If I didn't make it I wouldn't have the chance to play this year, but it worked out the way I wanted.
Out of all the players who switched from BW you are the one with the most recent championship so a lot of fans are looking forward to how you do.
I am aware of the fan's anticipations. However the time that I won was short and it was a long time ago so I don't remember it anymore. I want to return to my roots and play games.
You chose oGs because of your connection with oGsGon. But he is entering the army soon.
I am a little disappointed, but it's not like he's leaving as soon as I joined. Now I'm somewhat settled in with my teammates so I don't have any worries. He is getting up there in age so I'm hoping he settles into the military life well.
Terrans are playing the part of the villains in the GSL. You are also a Terran, does that matter to you?
It doesn't matter. Terran players prepare to win so there ends up being all-ins and strong builds, but it was unfortunate that all they get in return is criticism. I'm also a gamer and a Terran so I could empathize with them.
Thanks to the changes to the format the qualifiers and even getting into Code S have gotten a little easier.
I think it worked out well for me. It's a format that allows Code A players to have an easier time of moving up. For now I'm just satisfied with making it into the GSL and I will be working towards my next goal.
What is your first Code A goal?
For now it's getting into Code S.
You'll be starting from Code A but is there anyone you want to face in Code S?
If I get the chance I hope to play with Nestea hyung. Before I joined oGs I played against Nestea-hyung to try and understand the TvZ match up and I ended up losing every game. I've gotten a bit better at TvZ so I want to face him again.
How long do you think it will take before you conquer SC2?
I have no idea either. If I had some game sense I wouldn't be nervous at all and playing in official matches wouldn't be much of a burden, but right now my understanding of the game is still not that great compared to BW so I'm not sure. However I think it might be possible within one year.
What is your ultimate goal that you want to achieve with your switch to SC2?
For now winning Code S is my biggest goal. I haven't set any other detailed goals other than that. I'm thinking of just taking it one match at a time in preparation.
Is there anything you'd like to say before we end this interview?
Today is my mother's brithday. Thankfully I was able to win and do an interview. Happy birthday mother. And oGsGon-hyung has decided to go to the army. I was able to join oGs thanks to oGsGon, but it's not like he's leaving permanently so I hope he takes care of himself. In the real deal I beg that the maps are a bit more balanced. I am the only Terran that made it through today. It's way too harsh. Lastly, thank you to our sponsors Mom's Touch and Corsair.
But i agree with what he said, the terrans may be owning code S but its unfair to make the maps in code A so stacked against Terrans who may be deserving. There are still a lot of mediocre terrans in code S who should be knocked out instead and let other more deserving players of all races take over. Not try to force only protosses/zergs into code A.
How long do you think it will take before you conquer SC2?
I have no idea either. If I had some game sense I wouldn't be nervous at all and playing in official matches wouldn't be much of a burden, but right now my understanding of the game is still not that great compared to BW so I'm not sure. However I think it might be possible within one year.
Is there anything you'd like to say before we end this interview?
Today is my mother's brithday. Thankfully I was able to win and do an interview. Happy birthday mother. And oGsGon-hyung has decided to go to the army. I was able to join oGs thanks to oGsGon, but it's not like he's leaving permanently so I hope he takes care of himself. In the real deal I beg that the maps are a bit more balanced. I am the only Terran that made it through today. It's way too harsh. Lastly, thank you to our sponsors Mom's Touch and Corsair.
Wishing him the best in his upcoming Code A run. I honestly believe he's at the top 4 and then advance to Code S pretty soon. BW-trained mechanics + new timing attacks, yay!
First off, congratulations to Creator and fOrGG. Especially Creator. He's not a hugely innovative Protoss from what i've seen, but he's always been jumping around from first round of code A and just barely missing qualifying so i'm happy he's made it in again. I hope he's finally gotten over his nerve issues and can stick around this time.
Second, I don't even know where to start. I felt like one of the BW faithful and i was reading this in the BW section. I have to side with everyone saying fOrGG was not a legend. He wasn't even S class!!! I view him more as a shooting star. Definitely a noteworthy player, but he had his time to shine and was already fading if not fizzled out. Next, everyone still super hyping him up or speculating about it. I've watched all his games (and you should too, ESV broadcasts are up in their twitch tv account) that i could for the ESV weekly and he is not super impressive. He still makes A LOT of mistakes. The KT thing i'll only touch on since it's hard to say from an outside perspective, but the main point is, there is still more money in BW than in SC2. Why would you drop a guaranteed large paycheck (talking about their top players here)??
On October 26 2011 22:41 corumjhaelen wrote: Seems is doing all right but...
In the real deal I beg that the maps are a bit more balanced. I am the only Terran that made it through today. It's way too harsh.
That's all I have to say...
He still beat Flash, no TvT imba there. As for Jaedong...ewww these mapps
My point is not that he did not deserve to win that MSL, he was extremely good at the time, and he would have had a good chance against Jaedong regardless. My point is that ForGG complaining about map imba is a huge joke =)
On October 26 2011 21:32 WaSa wrote: So what race did he pick up? What kind of player is he if anyone knows? If he truly is a legend AND a macro intensive player, he MUST pick Zerg! (everything else is s waste) :D
he's a T. He was known for his EXTREMELY strong timing attacks. If that translates over to sc2 as well...
forGG statment was like: he started playing as protoss, but found them fucking weak, so he switched to terran and now when he trained so much that a transition is to late he wish he would play zerg, cause for him he think zerg is the strongest race
so you both right in some way ^^ even he thinks he should be zerg
On October 26 2011 22:13 poorcloud wrote: But i agree with what he said, the terrans may be owning code S but its unfair to make the maps in code A so stacked against Terrans who may be deserving. There are still a lot of mediocre terrans in code S who should be knocked out instead and let other more deserving players of all races take over. Not try to force only protosses/zergs into code A.
Don't take it too much to heart - virtually every pro-gamer lobbies for their own race to have it a little easier. A single day's qualifying doesn't prove anything regarding map or patch balance.
As well as forGG great to see creatorprime back in the GSL how unlucky could you get in the super tournament drawing MVP first round? Hope to see them both doing well (As well as demuslim) and I eagerly await the ForGG vs MVP showdown at the start to next year's code S.
I'll be surprised if he makes it to Code S. The few games of his I've caught on ESV.TV, he did not look very impressive. I don't know him from his BW days, but he has a ways to go in SC2.
I Would say if they are going to switch now would be a good time, with HOTS coming up and balance being put on its heels, it would allow them to switch over at a time when things are reset in a way.
From what I've seen of ForGG, he seems to be pretty prone to blunders at this point. In half his games he looks brilliant with strong timings and great micro, and in the other half he looks very shaky and unstable, getting rolled over by not being prepared for something etc. Hopefully another month or two with a proper team to practice with will rectify the bad part.
I was shocked to see somebody post on Facebook that I was apparently on the front page on TL Community page, LOL - then I saw my retweet ;-)
So happy for ForGG. I thought it was a shame when he got dumped out of the Korean Weekly but very glad he managed to brave it through the Code A qualifiers and earn himself a spot! SUPER excited to see his play in the coming season.
Out of all the players who switched from BW you are the one with the most recent championship so a lot of fans are looking forward to how you do.
I am aware of the fan's anticipations. However the time that I won was short and it was a long time ago so I don't remember it anymore. I want to return to my roots and play games.
So I looked it up because I was next to positive July won his golden mouse vs Best more recently but apparently his OSL and forgg's MSL were in exactly the same month but indeed the MSL was more recent
On October 26 2011 22:41 corumjhaelen wrote: Seems is doing all right but...
In the real deal I beg that the maps are a bit more balanced. I am the only Terran that made it through today. It's way too harsh.
That's all I have to say...
Sorry don't understand. These maps don't seem familiar at all?
These are the maps forgg beat Jaedong on in the final and the TvZ win %s. They are Colosseum, Othello, Tiamat, Athena and Colosseum again (though it was 3-0 so they didn't get to Athena)
Yeah I understand this, but since he was such a legend in Broodwar and he just made his appearance I thought it would be worth the new thread. Of course a mod can close it if it is too redundant x.x.
i wouldn't say he is a legend tbh.
Are you kidding? Compared to most of the pros (execpt for maybe Nada, July & Boxer) he is deifitnly a legend. The master of timing attacks is here!
edit: during his prime he had way more than 50% win rate
it's honestly extremely hard to tell if you're joking or not.
I'm not joking. It depends on who you are comparing him to. But compared to any other former BW player like Puma, MC or MvP, ForGG is definitly a legend. Compared to Jaedong, Bisu & Flash, maybe not. Though he is definitly a legend when it comes to timing attacks, and one of my favorite Terrans (as you can see ^^)
Compared to Puma MC or MVP ForGG is definitely a bonjwa. Compared to Jaedong Bisu and Flash hes maybe not bonjwa. In SC2 he may be not a bonjwa like Stephano but if he wins Code A he would definitely join all the other current bonjwas like MVP and Nestea.
this post is seriously full of lolz. yeah stephano is a bonjwa lololol
Congrats to him. Its always good to see progamers who have retired from BW continuing to make a living from SC2. Hopefully this will make the progaming career more viable. Now if only Yellow and Boxer could make the qualifications as well...
Yeah I understand this, but since he was such a legend in Broodwar and he just made his appearance I thought it would be worth the new thread. Of course a mod can close it if it is too redundant x.x.
i wouldn't say he is a legend tbh.
Are you kidding? Compared to most of the pros (execpt for maybe Nada, July & Boxer) he is deifitnly a legend. The master of timing attacks is here!
edit: during his prime he had way more than 50% win rate
Nal_ra, garimto, boxer, july, nada, bisu, jaedong, flash, stork, fantasy, reach,savior, and maybe kingdom That is what I would consider legends, maybe I'm missing someone.
Yeah I understand this, but since he was such a legend in Broodwar and he just made his appearance I thought it would be worth the new thread. Of course a mod can close it if it is too redundant x.x.
i wouldn't say he is a legend tbh.
Are you kidding? Compared to most of the pros (execpt for maybe Nada, July & Boxer) he is deifitnly a legend. The master of timing attacks is here!
edit: during his prime he had way more than 50% win rate
Nal_ra, garimto, boxer, july, nada, bisu, jaedong, flash, stork, fantasy, reach,savior, and maybe kingdom That is what I would consider legends, maybe I'm missing someone.
Kal was very strong back then so forgg won that title vs the best of each race. The final vs jaedong wasnt even close. Ive never seen jaedong get beaten that badly before or since. Regardless of the maps or his style, he is the strongest bw player to switch yet.
i wonder if they will become SC2 legends. nada, boxer, and july are on the legend list above and although they are good, they don't really stand up to bomber, mvp, and nestea in terms of sc2 wins
Yeah I understand this, but since he was such a legend in Broodwar and he just made his appearance I thought it would be worth the new thread. Of course a mod can close it if it is too redundant x.x.
i wouldn't say he is a legend tbh.
Are you kidding? Compared to most of the pros (execpt for maybe Nada, July & Boxer) he is deifitnly a legend. The master of timing attacks is here!
edit: during his prime he had way more than 50% win rate
Nal_ra, garimto, boxer, july, nada, bisu, jaedong, flash, stork, fantasy, reach,savior, and maybe kingdom That is what I would consider legends, maybe I'm missing someone.
What about Grrrr?
Grrr is a legend for the foreigner because he was one of the first foreign pro and one of the most successful but he never achieved as much as those guys ... I'd add iloveoov, xellos and chojja in the list.
On October 27 2011 00:14 price wrote: i wonder if they will become SC2 legends. nada, boxer, and july are on the legend list above and although they are good, they don't really stand up to bomber, mvp, and nestea in terms of sc2 wins
I really do hope he can, and considering how fast he got into code A with the difficulty it presents at the moment, i think he will.
Yeah I understand this, but since he was such a legend in Broodwar and he just made his appearance I thought it would be worth the new thread. Of course a mod can close it if it is too redundant x.x.
i wouldn't say he is a legend tbh.
Are you kidding? Compared to most of the pros (execpt for maybe Nada, July & Boxer) he is deifitnly a legend. The master of timing attacks is here!
edit: during his prime he had way more than 50% win rate
Nal_ra, garimto, boxer, july, nada, bisu, jaedong, flash, stork, fantasy, reach,savior, and maybe kingdom That is what I would consider legends, maybe I'm missing someone.
What about Grrrr?
I don't see oov in there..
Regardless, cool news, cooler news for the SC2 scene about KT.
Yeah I understand this, but since he was such a legend in Broodwar and he just made his appearance I thought it would be worth the new thread. Of course a mod can close it if it is too redundant x.x.
i wouldn't say he is a legend tbh.
Are you kidding? Compared to most of the pros (execpt for maybe Nada, July & Boxer) he is deifitnly a legend. The master of timing attacks is here!
edit: during his prime he had way more than 50% win rate
Nal_ra, garimto, boxer, july, nada, bisu, jaedong, flash, stork, fantasy, reach,savior, and maybe kingdom That is what I would consider legends, maybe I'm missing someone.
dude... yellow.. and I'd put xellos in there too for good measure.
Yeah I understand this, but since he was such a legend in Broodwar and he just made his appearance I thought it would be worth the new thread. Of course a mod can close it if it is too redundant x.x.
i wouldn't say he is a legend tbh.
Are you kidding? Compared to most of the pros (execpt for maybe Nada, July & Boxer) he is deifitnly a legend. The master of timing attacks is here!
edit: during his prime he had way more than 50% win rate
Nal_ra, garimto, boxer, july, nada, bisu, jaedong, flash, stork, fantasy, reach,savior, and maybe kingdom That is what I would consider legends, maybe I'm missing someone.
What about Grrrr?
Banana Terran!
ForGG could be a legend in a same way, Jangbi's run was legendary, but in BW most people care about time of dominance/ winrates. So thats why its hard to call him a legend with people mentioned above who were known for periods of dominance(bonjwa/TBLS for example). But you can say ForGG's achievement was somewhat legendary for his own capabilities (beating 1best current player for each race and winning starleague). Semantics
Yeah I understand this, but since he was such a legend in Broodwar and he just made his appearance I thought it would be worth the new thread. Of course a mod can close it if it is too redundant x.x.
i wouldn't say he is a legend tbh.
Are you kidding? Compared to most of the pros (execpt for maybe Nada, July & Boxer) he is deifitnly a legend. The master of timing attacks is here!
edit: during his prime he had way more than 50% win rate
Nal_ra, garimto, boxer, july, nada, bisu, jaedong, flash, stork, fantasy, reach,savior, and maybe kingdom That is what I would consider legends, maybe I'm missing someone.
Yeah I understand this, but since he was such a legend in Broodwar and he just made his appearance I thought it would be worth the new thread. Of course a mod can close it if it is too redundant x.x.
i wouldn't say he is a legend tbh.
Are you kidding? Compared to most of the pros (execpt for maybe Nada, July & Boxer) he is deifitnly a legend. The master of timing attacks is here!
edit: during his prime he had way more than 50% win rate
Nal_ra, garimto, boxer, july, nada, bisu, jaedong, flash, stork, fantasy, reach,savior, and maybe kingdom That is what I would consider legends, maybe I'm missing someone.
Yeah I understand this, but since he was such a legend in Broodwar and he just made his appearance I thought it would be worth the new thread. Of course a mod can close it if it is too redundant x.x.
i wouldn't say he is a legend tbh.
Are you kidding? Compared to most of the pros (execpt for maybe Nada, July & Boxer) he is deifitnly a legend. The master of timing attacks is here!
edit: during his prime he had way more than 50% win rate
Nal_ra, garimto, boxer, july, nada, bisu, jaedong, flash, stork, fantasy, reach,savior, and maybe kingdom That is what I would consider legends, maybe I'm missing someone.
What about Grrrr?
Banana Terran!
ForGG could be a legend in a same way, Jangbi's run was legendary, but in BW most people care about time of dominance/ winrates. So thats why its hard to call him a legend with people mentioned above who were known for periods of dominance(bonjwa/TBLS for example). But you can say ForGG's achievement was somewhat legendary for his own capabilities (beating 1best current player for each race and winning starleague). Semantics
Jangbi is a legend. The guy has been to 3 finals and at one point considered the best protoss in the world. I'd put Jangbi as a top 5 all time protoss, while I can't even put Forgg in the top 10 terrans of all time.
It is incredibly cute how BW fans think this somehow proves something, I watch sc2 because its the best game (imo) not because of it having the best players or not.
I am sorry for being completely oblivious when it comes to Korean Brood War but does this mean that some of the best Brood War pros are coming to Starcraft 2? Was fOrGG any good?
The only thing I don't like about this is he's another Terran. Otherwise, I'm ecstatic. ForGG could go toe-to-toe with the best players BW ever had. Can't wait until the next non-Terran top BW player comes over.
Yeah I understand this, but since he was such a legend in Broodwar and he just made his appearance I thought it would be worth the new thread. Of course a mod can close it if it is too redundant x.x.
i wouldn't say he is a legend tbh.
Are you kidding? Compared to most of the pros (execpt for maybe Nada, July & Boxer) he is deifitnly a legend. The master of timing attacks is here!
edit: during his prime he had way more than 50% win rate
Nal_ra, garimto, boxer, july, nada, bisu, jaedong, flash, stork, fantasy, reach,savior, and maybe kingdom That is what I would consider legends, maybe I'm missing someone.
dude... yellow.. and I'd put xellos in there too for good measure.
edit: oov! chojja! anytime!
Come on guys, you can't possibly talk about BW legends and not mention FBH, albeit for the wrong reasons orz
On October 27 2011 00:45 Afmug wrote: I am sorry for being completely oblivious when it comes to Korean Brood War but does this mean that some of the best Brood War pros are coming to Starcraft 2? Was fOrGG any good?
I don't think any BW pros who switch are extremely competitive right now. If they were, they would have little motivation to switch; after all, if they bomb out in sc2, they would lose out monetarily. forgg was good at the peak of his career, but he was going to be a non-A team player soon. Think of this as the equivalent as a Code B player, I suppose.
On October 27 2011 00:43 Krogan wrote: It is incredibly cute how BW fans think this somehow proves something, I watch sc2 because its the best game (imo) not because of it having the best players or not.
I kind of agree with this, I personally think bw would be a more fun game to watch but the current scene, sc2 is just so much more stuff going on and international
On October 27 2011 00:45 Afmug wrote: I am sorry for being completely oblivious when it comes to Korean Brood War but does this mean that some of the best Brood War pros are coming to Starcraft 2? Was fOrGG any good?
He 3-0'd jaedong (the best zerg to touch the game, and at many times the best player in the scene) in a final.
This is what the SC2 scene needs to gain favoritism in Korea. Good results and proper endorsements from former Starleague champions. This is fantastic news!
On October 26 2011 20:24 Zephirdd wrote: If the KT house decides to switch to SC2...
The current scene is doomed.
it will be like the great flood sweeping away all the blasphemous meatbags so that the chosen ones can descend from the ark and create a luscious, new world of purity and greatness.
Why does the OP throw in a totally unrelated comment about the KT thing...
It's really cool to see ForGG get into Code A though. Not wholly unexpected considering he's been playing pretty well on ladder and in the ESV tourneys.
Yeah I understand this, but since he was such a legend in Broodwar and he just made his appearance I thought it would be worth the new thread. Of course a mod can close it if it is too redundant x.x.
i wouldn't say he is a legend tbh.
Are you kidding? Compared to most of the pros (execpt for maybe Nada, July & Boxer) he is deifitnly a legend. The master of timing attacks is here!
edit: during his prime he had way more than 50% win rate
Nal_ra, garimto, boxer, july, nada, bisu, jaedong, flash, stork, fantasy, reach,savior, and maybe kingdom That is what I would consider legends, maybe I'm missing someone.
dude... yellow.. and I'd put xellos in there too for good measure.
edit: oov! chojja! anytime!
Come on guys, you can't possibly talk about BW legends and not mention FBH, albeit for the wrong reasons orz
Remember, it may be Bisu who defeated Savior, but it was FBH who crushed his soul.
On October 26 2011 20:24 Zephirdd wrote: If the KT house decides to switch to SC2...
The current scene is doomed.
it will be like the great flood sweeping away all the blasphemous meatbags so that the chosen ones can descend from the ark and create a luscious, new world of purity and greatness.
I think I'm going to cry out of joy.....
At least if Flash wins everything we don't have to blame Terran, we can just blame god himself.
On October 27 2011 00:45 Afmug wrote: I am sorry for being completely oblivious when it comes to Korean Brood War but does this mean that some of the best Brood War pros are coming to Starcraft 2? Was fOrGG any good?
He 3-0'd jaedong (the best zerg to touch the game, and at many times the best player in the scene) in a final.
In the most Terran map biased MSL in the most recent 5 years T_T.
On October 27 2011 01:01 Deezl wrote: What really scares me is that the young SC2 scene outside of Code S can't stand before the old SC1 progamers who've had just a few months to practice.
fOrGG has been playing since January so he's basically on an even playing field with everyone else.
Holy shit, just because KT has new computers doesn't mean they are switching to SC2.
If they need new computers, obviously they are going to get computers strong enough to run SC2 with widescreen monitors (because one day, they will inevitably start a SC2 team).
All this means is that they have the capability to start one...
You're all wrong KT House is starting a Dota2 Team!
Expected ForGG to kick some ass having 3 accounts in Korea's GM top 20 with 70%+ winrates is better than what even many code S players are putting up. The guy is a training machine, BW A-Team work ethic in Sc2 = World Champ.
Not sure if anyone else here has actually paid attention to any of the games hes played recently, but he is ridiculous. His aggresion doesn't even make sense but it always works.
On October 26 2011 20:24 Zephirdd wrote: If the KT house decides to switch to SC2...
The current scene is doomed.
it will be like the great flood sweeping away all the blasphemous meatbags so that the chosen ones can descend from the ark and create a luscious, new world of purity and greatness.
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
Yes.
The skills translate from bw to sc2 seamlessly. MVP and Nestea I believe were the best bw players that have been playing sc2 and look at their success.
Guys like Puma, Idra, MC were just B teamers and look how good they are in sc2.
There is no reason on any level to think anybody who was good at bw would suck at sc2.
I have not been terribly impressed by his games in the ESV weeklies... he seems to only love playing with the new units haha. Lotsa hellions, banshees etc. Can't tell how serious he's taking it yet.
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
Yes.
The skills translate from bw to sc2 seamlessly. MVP and Nestea I believe were the best bw players that have been playing sc2 and look at their success.
Guys like Puma, Idra, MC were just B teamers and look how good they are in sc2.
There is no reason on any level to think anybody who was good at bw would suck at sc2.
Not nestea, and it still took them awhile. It'll still take time.
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
Yes.
The skills translate from bw to sc2 seamlessly. MVP and Nestea I believe were the best bw players that have been playing sc2 and look at their success.
Guys like Puma, Idra, MC were just B teamers and look how good they are in sc2.
There is no reason on any level to think anybody who was good at bw would suck at sc2.
Except Yellow, Right? Oh, Nada is pretty mediocre at the moment, despite his multitude of accomplishments. July yet to take even a finals, I believe. Nestea, MVP, DRG, MMA etc etc were B-Teamers. They probably started practicing as soon as the beta hit. That's why they got so good. *Embraces the incoming flames of hatred*
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
Yes.
The skills translate from bw to sc2 seamlessly. MVP and Nestea I believe were the best bw players that have been playing sc2 and look at their success.
Guys like Puma, Idra, MC were just B teamers and look how good they are in sc2.
There is no reason on any level to think anybody who was good at bw would suck at sc2.
Except Yellow, Right? Oh, Nada is pretty mediocre at the moment, despite his multitude of accomplishments. July yet to take even a finals, I believe. Nestea, MVP, DRG, MMA etc etc were B-Teamers. They probably started practicing as soon as the beta hit. That's why they got so good. *Embraces the incoming flames of hatred*
Yellow spent what, a fews on SC2? Nada is not mediocre, he is doing amazing for playing during his college studies. July is a top SC2 zerg.
Lots of other players started practicing at beta too. Are they better than MVP, Nestea, DRG, MMA, or July? No.
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
Yes.
The skills translate from bw to sc2 seamlessly. MVP and Nestea I believe were the best bw players that have been playing sc2 and look at their success.
Guys like Puma, Idra, MC were just B teamers and look how good they are in sc2.
There is no reason on any level to think anybody who was good at bw would suck at sc2.
Except Yellow, Right? Oh, Nada is pretty mediocre at the moment, despite his multitude of accomplishments. July yet to take even a finals, I believe. Nestea, MVP, DRG, MMA etc etc were B-Teamers. They probably started practicing as soon as the beta hit. That's why they got so good. *Embraces the incoming flames of hatred*
Um Yellow Nada and maybe july were all starcraft 1 relics. They were nowhere close to being a teamers at the end of their BW career i believe. MVP and MMA were all closer to the A team than Nada Or yellow or probably July at the end of their BW careers.
ForGG did well in the Flash/Jaedong era, which was after players like Nada/Boxer/Yellow had all their accomplishments and the skill level rose so high these old legends couldn't keep up. Thats why we are all so pumped about it. It means ForGG is at least as mechanically good as MVP. And we all know MVP is probably the best in terms of mechanics in SC2.
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
Yes.
The skills translate from bw to sc2 seamlessly. MVP and Nestea I believe were the best bw players that have been playing sc2 and look at their success.
Guys like Puma, Idra, MC were just B teamers and look how good they are in sc2.
There is no reason on any level to think anybody who was good at bw would suck at sc2.
Except Yellow, Right? Oh, Nada is pretty mediocre at the moment, despite his multitude of accomplishments. July yet to take even a finals, I believe. Nestea, MVP, DRG, MMA etc etc were B-Teamers. They probably started practicing as soon as the beta hit. That's why they got so good. *Embraces the incoming flames of hatred*
It's not necessarily about their accomplishments, but more like how recent their accomplishments were and their overall skill level at the time when they switched over.
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
Yes.
The skills translate from bw to sc2 seamlessly. MVP and Nestea I believe were the best bw players that have been playing sc2 and look at their success.
Guys like Puma, Idra, MC were just B teamers and look how good they are in sc2.
There is no reason on any level to think anybody who was good at bw would suck at sc2.
Except Yellow, Right? Oh, Nada is pretty mediocre at the moment, despite his multitude of accomplishments. July yet to take even a finals, I believe. Nestea, MVP, DRG, MMA etc etc were B-Teamers. They probably started practicing as soon as the beta hit. That's why they got so good. *Embraces the incoming flames of hatred*
I don't think Yellow had any real interest in SC2. Nada is focusing on university at the same time. Results-wise July is easily one of the best zergs and he often lost to really strong players, such as MVP, DRG, Bomber and MC. I won't commet on Nestea, MVP, DRG or MMA since I don't know and you're only speculating anyway without any evidence. But with that being said, I don't think the skills translate seamlessly.
I'm so hyped for this. The fact that he is the only terran to qualify for code A is a good sign :D, terran is so hard / weak right now (a lot of good players like Hack, Shuttle (not sure) and Thebest didnt not qualify), I hope that he will still be able to go to code S in his first try.
I don't get why OP brought up KT/Blizzcon thing. ForGG retired quite awhile ago, not recently. And Bisu and Fantasy playing SC2? Cmon what else were they going to do there besides watch the GSL finals. If you see Kobe Bryant playing soccer, do you see that as a sign of him switching to professional soccer?
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
Yes.
The skills translate from bw to sc2 seamlessly. MVP and Nestea I believe were the best bw players that have been playing sc2 and look at their success.
Guys like Puma, Idra, MC were just B teamers and look how good they are in sc2.
There is no reason on any level to think anybody who was good at bw would suck at sc2.
Except Yellow, Right? Oh, Nada is pretty mediocre at the moment, despite his multitude of accomplishments. July yet to take even a finals, I believe. Nestea, MVP, DRG, MMA etc etc were B-Teamers. They probably started practicing as soon as the beta hit. That's why they got so good. *Embraces the incoming flames of hatred*
MVP was an A-teamer. Get your facts right before spewing nonsense.
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
Yes.
The skills translate from bw to sc2 seamlessly. MVP and Nestea I believe were the best bw players that have been playing sc2 and look at their success.
Guys like Puma, Idra, MC were just B teamers and look how good they are in sc2.
There is no reason on any level to think anybody who was good at bw would suck at sc2.
Except Yellow, Right? Oh, Nada is pretty mediocre at the moment, despite his multitude of accomplishments. July yet to take even a finals, I believe. Nestea, MVP, DRG, MMA etc etc were B-Teamers. They probably started practicing as soon as the beta hit. That's why they got so good. *Embraces the incoming flames of hatred*
That's funny you said you're ready for incoming flames of hatred, when it seems in your post you're the one with the agression.
I don't think I need to say anything, since it seems a bunch of people agree with me and have already responded to you.
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
Yes.
The skills translate from bw to sc2 seamlessly. MVP and Nestea I believe were the best bw players that have been playing sc2 and look at their success.
Guys like Puma, Idra, MC were just B teamers and look how good they are in sc2.
There is no reason on any level to think anybody who was good at bw would suck at sc2.
Except Yellow, Right? Oh, Nada is pretty mediocre at the moment, despite his multitude of accomplishments. July yet to take even a finals, I believe. Nestea, MVP, DRG, MMA etc etc were B-Teamers. They probably started practicing as soon as the beta hit. That's why they got so good. *Embraces the incoming flames of hatred*
Um Yellow Nada and maybe july were all starcraft 1 relics. They were nowhere close to being a teamers at the end of their BW career i believe. MVP and MMA were all closer to the A team than Nada Or yellow or probably July at the end of their BW careers.
ForGG did well in the Flash/Jaedong era, which was after players like Nada/Boxer/Yellow had all their accomplishments and the skill level rose so high these old legends couldn't keep up. Thats why we are all so pumped about it. It means ForGG is at least as mechanically good as MVP. And we all know MVP is probably the best in terms of mechanics in SC2.
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
Yes.
The skills translate from bw to sc2 seamlessly. MVP and Nestea I believe were the best bw players that have been playing sc2 and look at their success.
Guys like Puma, Idra, MC were just B teamers and look how good they are in sc2.
There is no reason on any level to think anybody who was good at bw would suck at sc2.
Except Yellow, Right? Oh, Nada is pretty mediocre at the moment, despite his multitude of accomplishments. July yet to take even a finals, I believe. Nestea, MVP, DRG, MMA etc etc were B-Teamers. They probably started practicing as soon as the beta hit. That's why they got so good. *Embraces the incoming flames of hatred*
MVP was an A-teamer. Get your facts right before spewing nonsense.
Yes, he's one of the few SCII players who have had the distinction of being able to take a game off God-Mode Flash in a starleague.
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
Considering the best players today are old BW players? Yes. Also forgot to mention that BW was harder to master mechanically, so if you could master BW you can master sc2. It's kind of like saying, oh this guy was really good at soccer. Do you think he'd make a good field goal kicker in American football?
Am I the only one surprised he made it in? I always believed brood war players could be dominant if they switch over but seriously, code A the 2nd or 3rd most competitive tournament in the world. When did he switch over, it seems like the news only broke a month ago and he is already in code fucking A?
That is incredible, I didn't believe that an A-team BW pro could truly rise to the top in that short of a time. If the highest tier switches at any point, god help us all.
I so much wanna see all the KT hose getting dominated and getting no Code S play this year and the year to come to stop all the ppl saying " A team pros will dominated everything once they switch".
On October 27 2011 03:08 Aterons_toss wrote: I so much wanna see all the KT hose getting dominated and getting no Code S play this year and the year to come to stop all the ppl saying " A team pros will dominated everything once they switch".
Keep dreaming. Gosi Terran's bw skill allowed him to quickly climb the sc2 ranks, imagine what KT is capable of.
I'm guessing they will allow their A level players to practice and send Flash last if anything. Doesn't make sense to have your best player practice already if worse players could win thousands of Dollars for the team.
with july and nada dominating sc2 after its prime shows that it is possible to switch when you ARE at your prime like forGG is now. KT rolster better switch before HOTS comes out or it will be very very hard to adapt. Also, everyone knew that the switch from bw to sc2 is coming sooner or later.
On October 27 2011 03:14 backtoback wrote: with july and nada dominating sc2 after its prime shows that it is possible to switch when you ARE at your prime like forGG is now. KT rolster better switch before HOTS comes out or it will be very very hard to adapt. Also, everyone knew that the switch from bw to sc2 is coming sooner or later.
I been hoping it's sooner rather than later. Hopefully we can see Jaedong/flash/bisu sooner rather than later.
On October 27 2011 03:14 backtoback wrote: with july and nada dominating sc2 after its prime shows that it is possible to switch when you ARE at your prime like forGG is now. KT rolster better switch before HOTS comes out or it will be very very hard to adapt. Also, everyone knew that the switch from bw to sc2 is coming sooner or later.
Neither July nor Nada are anything like "dominating" sc2 at the moment. Are they both Code S players? Yes. Are either of them considered the best players of their respective races? No.
On October 27 2011 03:14 backtoback wrote: with july and nada dominating sc2 after its prime shows that it is possible to switch when you ARE at your prime like forGG is now. KT rolster better switch before HOTS comes out or it will be very very hard to adapt. Also, everyone knew that the switch from bw to sc2 is coming sooner or later.
Neither July nor Nada are anything like "dominating" sc2 at the moment. Are they both Code S players? Yes. Are either of them considered the best players of their respective races? No.
On October 27 2011 03:14 backtoback wrote: with july and nada dominating sc2 after its prime shows that it is possible to switch when you ARE at your prime like forGG is now. KT rolster better switch before HOTS comes out or it will be very very hard to adapt. Also, everyone knew that the switch from bw to sc2 is coming sooner or later.
Neither July nor Nada are anything like "dominating" sc2 at the moment. Are they both Code S players? Yes. Are either of them considered the best players of their respective races? No.
true, but point is JULY and NADA are completely washed up in bw standards and they would get completely rolled in bw.
But in sc2, with minimal effort they are still competitive.
On October 27 2011 03:14 backtoback wrote: with july and nada dominating sc2 after its prime shows that it is possible to switch when you ARE at your prime like forGG is now. KT rolster better switch before HOTS comes out or it will be very very hard to adapt. Also, everyone knew that the switch from bw to sc2 is coming sooner or later.
Neither July nor Nada are anything like "dominating" sc2 at the moment. Are they both Code S players? Yes. Are either of them considered the best players of their respective races? No.
I can't speak for Nada, but July gets pretty far in Code S all the time.. I'd probably rate him as one of the top 5 zergs in Korea..
On October 27 2011 03:14 backtoback wrote: with july and nada dominating sc2 after its prime shows that it is possible to switch when you ARE at your prime like forGG is now. KT rolster better switch before HOTS comes out or it will be very very hard to adapt. Also, everyone knew that the switch from bw to sc2 is coming sooner or later.
Neither July nor Nada are anything like "dominating" sc2 at the moment. Are they both Code S players? Yes. Are either of them considered the best players of their respective races? No.
true, but point is JULY and NADA are completely washed up in bw standards and they would get completely rolled in bw.
But in sc2, with minimal effort they are still competitive.
I'd take you up on "minimal effort" - do you know their training schedule? Nor do I, so I won't make assertions about it.
But yes, BW players are likely to do well in SC2. It was more his comment about July and Nada specifically.
On October 27 2011 03:14 backtoback wrote: with july and nada dominating sc2 after its prime shows that it is possible to switch when you ARE at your prime like forGG is now. KT rolster better switch before HOTS comes out or it will be very very hard to adapt. Also, everyone knew that the switch from bw to sc2 is coming sooner or later.
Neither July nor Nada are anything like "dominating" sc2 at the moment. Are they both Code S players? Yes. Are either of them considered the best players of their respective races? No.
true, but point is JULY and NADA are completely washed up in bw standards and they would get completely rolled in bw.
But in sc2, with minimal effort they are still competitive.
I'd take you up on "minimal effort" - do you know their training schedule? Nor do I, so I won't make assertions about it.
But yes, BW players are likely to do well in SC2. It was more his comment about July and Nada specifically.
You;re right, I don't know their schedule, but i meant minimal as in it didn't seem long for them to get into Code S. I mean they wouldn't sniff Code S in bw now, not even close was my point.
But yes I concede maybe they do train alot, but from what I understand Nada is in college, so I doubt he trains all that much compared to how he should.
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
Yes, it just happened. forgg just switched over and he is already in code A on what I believe was his first attempt. The proof is RIGHT HERE.
Why do people not do their research before saying something like this?
ForGG has been at the top of the Korean ladder for multiple seasons in a row. He has three accounts that we know of in Korean GM (Fin, Raptor, Apex). He has been playing for a looooooooong time already. Honestly, "ForGG doesn't make Code A" would be far more surprising than "ForGG makes Code A."
On October 27 2011 03:14 backtoback wrote: with july and nada dominating sc2 after its prime shows that it is possible to switch when you ARE at your prime like forGG is now. KT rolster better switch before HOTS comes out or it will be very very hard to adapt. Also, everyone knew that the switch from bw to sc2 is coming sooner or later.
Neither July nor Nada are anything like "dominating" sc2 at the moment. Are they both Code S players? Yes. Are either of them considered the best players of their respective races? No.
true, but point is JULY and NADA are completely washed up in bw standards and they would get completely rolled in bw.
But in sc2, with minimal effort they are still competitive.
I'd take you up on "minimal effort" - do you know their training schedule? Nor do I, so I won't make assertions about it.
But yes, BW players are likely to do well in SC2. It was more his comment about July and Nada specifically.
You;re right, I don't know their schedule, but i meant minimal as in it didn't seem long for them to get into Code S. I mean they wouldn't sniff Code S in bw now, not even close was my point.
But yes I concede maybe they do train alot, but from what I understand Nada is in college, so I doubt he trains all that much compared to how he should.
Nada has ALWAYS been in code S. So i guess your right, it didnt take him long to get there. He also has never been in the UP and DOWNS too. He plays a ton and this game means a lot to him. Just more BW elitism coming in to play.
On a topic actually worth mentioning, im happy to see forgg make it, from what i heard he is pretty beastly. I cannot wait to see him play!! ^_^
I doubt Flash would transition to SC2, especially not in the next year or two. The man has a ridiculous understanding and sense of broodwar and to have to go through the whole process of understanding the dynamics of a new game would be unnecessary effort when he already has a game which he dominates. Not to mention the fact that his efforts spent on BW would probably net him a lot more cash than if he had to practice for both or switch completely.
On October 27 2011 03:14 backtoback wrote: with july and nada dominating sc2 after its prime shows that it is possible to switch when you ARE at your prime like forGG is now. KT rolster better switch before HOTS comes out or it will be very very hard to adapt. Also, everyone knew that the switch from bw to sc2 is coming sooner or later.
Neither July nor Nada are anything like "dominating" sc2 at the moment. Are they both Code S players? Yes. Are either of them considered the best players of their respective races? No.
true, but point is JULY and NADA are completely washed up in bw standards and they would get completely rolled in bw.
But in sc2, with minimal effort they are still competitive.
I'd take you up on "minimal effort" - do you know their training schedule? Nor do I, so I won't make assertions about it.
But yes, BW players are likely to do well in SC2. It was more his comment about July and Nada specifically.
You;re right, I don't know their schedule, but i meant minimal as in it didn't seem long for them to get into Code S. I mean they wouldn't sniff Code S in bw now, not even close was my point.
But yes I concede maybe they do train alot, but from what I understand Nada is in college, so I doubt he trains all that much compared to how he should.
Nada has ALWAYS been in code S. So i guess your right, it didnt take him long to get there. He also has never been in the UP and DOWNS too. He plays a ton and this game means a lot to him. Just more BW elitism coming in to play.
On a topic actually worth mentioning, im happy to see forgg make it, from what i heard he is pretty beastly. I cannot wait to see him play!! ^_^
Agreed, I can't wait to see FORgg as well. He's a beast.
I really don't think all of KT is going to just switch over to sc2. For one, there is still a lot more money in BW, and what is the point in practicing for WoL when they could put all their efforts into dominating HotS?
Lol now it seems like all the BW hipsters are trying to show who knows more about him... I think it would be awesome if the KT house switches.. I want to see if they can switch easily or if the metagame advantage the current players have will be enough to keep it even. Maybe when HOTS comes out, it will be a sort of leveled playing field so maybe the BW will be more quick to change over?
On October 27 2011 03:47 LXR wrote: Lol now it seems like all the BW hipsters are trying to show who knows more about him... I think it would be awesome if the KT house switches.. I want to see if they can switch easily or if the metagame advantage the current players have will be enough to keep it even. Maybe when HOTS comes out, it will be a sort of leveled playing field so maybe the BW will be more quick to change over?
Mvp's first GSL was the second one I think, he got eliminated in the second and third, but he trained with NesTea to help him prepare his final against MarineKing, then he dominated for december to january, so it took him 2-3 months to become "great", even if he was scary as the top 1 on ladder since GSL 2 (or 3?). So it can take some time even for good players
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
Yes, it just happened. forgg just switched over and he is already in code A on what I believe was his first attempt. The proof is RIGHT HERE.
forgg has been playing forever.. He hasn't 'just' switched.
By "forever" you mean since what...June? Lol
He started being visible at the tope of the ladders around January/February.
Since I'm sure he didn't start out there, it's safe to assume he's been playing a bit before that as well. So he's been playing at a high level for at least 10 months now. Tbh, it's suprising he took this long to make it :s
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
Yes, it just happened. forgg just switched over and he is already in code A on what I believe was his first attempt. The proof is RIGHT HERE.
forgg has been playing forever.. He hasn't 'just' switched.
By "forever" you mean since what...June? Lol
He started being visible at the tope of the ladders around January/February.
Since I'm sure he didn't start out there, it's safe to assume he's been playing a bit before that as well. So he's been playing at a high level for at least 10 months now. Tbh, it's suprising he took this long to make it :s
Nope, he started playing in Gold in January and got top Master in a week, he didn't treat the game seriously until he joined oGs.
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
Yes, it just happened. forgg just switched over and he is already in code A on what I believe was his first attempt. The proof is RIGHT HERE.
forgg has been playing forever.. He hasn't 'just' switched.
By "forever" you mean since what...June? Lol
He started being visible at the tope of the ladders around January/February.
Since I'm sure he didn't start out there, it's safe to assume he's been playing a bit before that as well. So he's been playing at a high level for at least 10 months now. Tbh, it's suprising he took this long to make it :s
Nope, he started playing in Gold in January and got top Master in a week, he didn't treat the game seriously until he joined oGs.
That depends on your definition of seriously. I doubt anyone can get three accounts into GM, if they don't work for it.
I also doubt that after training so long and hard in brood war he'd not bring some of that with him when playing SC2.
I do not understand why there exists a link in the original post between ForGG making it through the preliminaries to compete in GSL Code A and Brood War players transitioning to StarCraft II.
That is to say, I do understand it in the sense that a lot of people think that the latter will happen in the near future, but for what reason is this something that belongs in the Community News and Headlines section of Team Liquid? The qualification of ForGG might by itself be noteworthy enough, he has a fairly large fanbase and it is an interesting point to make, also in light of him being the only Terran to make the cut on the first day of the qualifiers.
But honestly, it would be a lot more sensible to keep the topics separate. I would imagine a lot of people will have an interest in the qualification, only to be thrown into another silly Brood War versus StarCraft II e-sports discussion.
Edit: Mixed up Spotlight and Community News and Headlines.
On October 27 2011 03:14 backtoback wrote: with july and nada dominating sc2 after its prime shows that it is possible to switch when you ARE at your prime like forGG is now. KT rolster better switch before HOTS comes out or it will be very very hard to adapt. Also, everyone knew that the switch from bw to sc2 is coming sooner or later.
Neither July nor Nada are anything like "dominating" sc2 at the moment. Are they both Code S players? Yes. Are either of them considered the best players of their respective races? No.
true, but point is JULY and NADA are completely washed up in bw standards and they would get completely rolled in bw.
But in sc2, with minimal effort they are still competitive.
I'd take you up on "minimal effort" - do you know their training schedule? Nor do I, so I won't make assertions about it.
But yes, BW players are likely to do well in SC2. It was more his comment about July and Nada specifically.
You;re right, I don't know their schedule, but i meant minimal as in it didn't seem long for them to get into Code S. I mean they wouldn't sniff Code S in bw now, not even close was my point.
But yes I concede maybe they do train alot, but from what I understand Nada is in college, so I doubt he trains all that much compared to how he should.
Nada has ALWAYS been in code S. So i guess your right, it didnt take him long to get there. He also has never been in the UP and DOWNS too. He plays a ton and this game means a lot to him. Just more BW elitism coming in to play.
On a topic actually worth mentioning, im happy to see forgg make it, from what i heard he is pretty beastly. I cannot wait to see him play!! ^_^
He really doesn't play a ton. It has been confirmed that he plays much less than others because of university.
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
Yes, it just happened. forgg just switched over and he is already in code A on what I believe was his first attempt. The proof is RIGHT HERE.
forgg has been playing forever.. He hasn't 'just' switched.
By "forever" you mean since what...June? Lol
He started being visible at the tope of the ladders around January/February.
Since I'm sure he didn't start out there, it's safe to assume he's been playing a bit before that as well. So he's been playing at a high level for at least 10 months now. Tbh, it's suprising he took this long to make it :s
It didn't take him this long to make it. This is the first time he tried to.
I think a lot of people are overhyping fOrGG, yes he beat Jaedong in a bo5 but when was this? People saying "RECENT". This was 2008, more than 3 years ago.
On October 27 2011 05:06 Trizz wrote: I think a lot of people are overhyping fOrGG, yes he beat Jaedong in a bo5 but when was this? People saying "RECENT". This was 2008, more than 3 years ago.
Wasn't Jaedong super super good around that time, at least compared to now?
On October 27 2011 05:12 Alejandrisha wrote: im more excited about creator tbh :p
Creator is gosu! He's good but he's going to be freaking scary once he gains more experience/matures some more. He's only 14 @_@!
exactly my point! he could become so good really quickly. it's hard to believe he is so young. i'm definitely a big fan of his and can't wait to see what he can do in a year or 2.. or even sooner!
Yes! His play in ESV Korean Weekly was very impressive! I can't wait to see more of him in GSL!! Also Creator!! A very promising player, I hope both of them do well!
On October 27 2011 03:14 backtoback wrote: with july and nada dominating sc2 after its prime shows that it is possible to switch when you ARE at your prime like forGG is now. KT rolster better switch before HOTS comes out or it will be very very hard to adapt. Also, everyone knew that the switch from bw to sc2 is coming sooner or later.
Neither July nor Nada are anything like "dominating" sc2 at the moment. Are they both Code S players? Yes. Are either of them considered the best players of their respective races? No.
true, but point is JULY and NADA are completely washed up in bw standards and they would get completely rolled in bw.
But in sc2, with minimal effort they are still competitive.
I'd take you up on "minimal effort" - do you know their training schedule? Nor do I, so I won't make assertions about it.
But yes, BW players are likely to do well in SC2. It was more his comment about July and Nada specifically.
You;re right, I don't know their schedule, but i meant minimal as in it didn't seem long for them to get into Code S. I mean they wouldn't sniff Code S in bw now, not even close was my point.
But yes I concede maybe they do train alot, but from what I understand Nada is in college, so I doubt he trains all that much compared to how he should.
Nada has ALWAYS been in code S. So i guess your right, it didnt take him long to get there. He also has never been in the UP and DOWNS too. He plays a ton and this game means a lot to him. Just more BW elitism coming in to play.
On a topic actually worth mentioning, im happy to see forgg make it, from what i heard he is pretty beastly. I cannot wait to see him play!! ^_^
He really doesn't play a ton. It has been confirmed that he plays much less than others because of university.
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
Yes, it just happened. forgg just switched over and he is already in code A on what I believe was his first attempt. The proof is RIGHT HERE.
forgg has been playing forever.. He hasn't 'just' switched.
By "forever" you mean since what...June? Lol
He started being visible at the tope of the ladders around January/February.
Since I'm sure he didn't start out there, it's safe to assume he's been playing a bit before that as well. So he's been playing at a high level for at least 10 months now. Tbh, it's suprising he took this long to make it :s
It didn't take him this long to make it. This is the first time he tried to.
It was also confirmed that he would break out this summer because he didnt have to focus on university. Although he has stayed consistent he hasnt made any huge strides over the course of the summer.
On October 27 2011 03:14 backtoback wrote: with july and nada dominating sc2 after its prime shows that it is possible to switch when you ARE at your prime like forGG is now. KT rolster better switch before HOTS comes out or it will be very very hard to adapt. Also, everyone knew that the switch from bw to sc2 is coming sooner or later.
Neither July nor Nada are anything like "dominating" sc2 at the moment. Are they both Code S players? Yes. Are either of them considered the best players of their respective races? No.
true, but point is JULY and NADA are completely washed up in bw standards and they would get completely rolled in bw.
But in sc2, with minimal effort they are still competitive.
I'd take you up on "minimal effort" - do you know their training schedule? Nor do I, so I won't make assertions about it.
But yes, BW players are likely to do well in SC2. It was more his comment about July and Nada specifically.
You;re right, I don't know their schedule, but i meant minimal as in it didn't seem long for them to get into Code S. I mean they wouldn't sniff Code S in bw now, not even close was my point.
But yes I concede maybe they do train alot, but from what I understand Nada is in college, so I doubt he trains all that much compared to how he should.
Nada has ALWAYS been in code S. So i guess your right, it didnt take him long to get there. He also has never been in the UP and DOWNS too. He plays a ton and this game means a lot to him. Just more BW elitism coming in to play.
On a topic actually worth mentioning, im happy to see forgg make it, from what i heard he is pretty beastly. I cannot wait to see him play!! ^_^
You guys do realize that Nada/July/Boxer started playing not soon after SC2 was out right? You're making it sound like, Nada just instantly appeared and got into GSL, well you know what? So did everyone else in the GSL back then because the game was new so it didn't take anyone "long" to get into Code S. If he had started playing a year after the game was released and other progamers actually had an advantage on him then what you're saying might mean something.
On October 27 2011 05:06 Trizz wrote: I think a lot of people are overhyping fOrGG, yes he beat Jaedong in a bo5 but when was this? People saying "RECENT". This was 2008, more than 3 years ago.
Wasn't Jaedong super super good around that time, at least compared to now?
jaedong is still just as good if not better; other people have improved too though. His skill is the same, and his results are still amazing. Jaedong's peak was after the forgg finals as well (at least in tournament results; I don't know ELO stuff off-hand).
To put in perspective, the 8 msls that happenedafter he lost to Never_V (forgg), jaedong made the finals in 3, and would have won all 3 if not for flash (1 gold, 2 silvers for JD). Making almost half the msl finals after losing to forgg certainly does not indicate falling off at all ("compared to now"). As well as winning 2 osl golds after losing to forgg.
He isn't as dominant in results as he was in 2009 (where he beat flash in msl and won two osl golds back-to-back, all after forgg), but skill wise he is as good as ever.
On October 27 2011 03:14 backtoback wrote: with july and nada dominating sc2 after its prime shows that it is possible to switch when you ARE at your prime like forGG is now. KT rolster better switch before HOTS comes out or it will be very very hard to adapt. Also, everyone knew that the switch from bw to sc2 is coming sooner or later.
Neither July nor Nada are anything like "dominating" sc2 at the moment. Are they both Code S players? Yes. Are either of them considered the best players of their respective races? No.
true, but point is JULY and NADA are completely washed up in bw standards and they would get completely rolled in bw.
But in sc2, with minimal effort they are still competitive.
I'd take you up on "minimal effort" - do you know their training schedule? Nor do I, so I won't make assertions about it.
But yes, BW players are likely to do well in SC2. It was more his comment about July and Nada specifically.
You;re right, I don't know their schedule, but i meant minimal as in it didn't seem long for them to get into Code S. I mean they wouldn't sniff Code S in bw now, not even close was my point.
But yes I concede maybe they do train alot, but from what I understand Nada is in college, so I doubt he trains all that much compared to how he should.
Nada has ALWAYS been in code S. So i guess your right, it didnt take him long to get there. He also has never been in the UP and DOWNS too. He plays a ton and this game means a lot to him. Just more BW elitism coming in to play.
On a topic actually worth mentioning, im happy to see forgg make it, from what i heard he is pretty beastly. I cannot wait to see him play!! ^_^
He really doesn't play a ton. It has been confirmed that he plays much less than others because of university.
On October 27 2011 04:23 Vorenius wrote:
On October 27 2011 03:30 wherebugsgo wrote:
On October 27 2011 03:11 MonkSEA wrote:
On October 27 2011 03:09 Moa wrote:
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
Yes, it just happened. forgg just switched over and he is already in code A on what I believe was his first attempt. The proof is RIGHT HERE.
forgg has been playing forever.. He hasn't 'just' switched.
By "forever" you mean since what...June? Lol
He started being visible at the tope of the ladders around January/February.
Since I'm sure he didn't start out there, it's safe to assume he's been playing a bit before that as well. So he's been playing at a high level for at least 10 months now. Tbh, it's suprising he took this long to make it :s
It didn't take him this long to make it. This is the first time he tried to.
It was also confirmed that he would break out this summer because he didnt have to focus on university. Although he has stayed consistent he hasnt made any huge strides over the course of the summer.
That is not very relevant. He might have played more during the summer but that doesn't mean he is playing or has played a ton. Moreover, beside him struggling against protoss he took out quite a few of the very best of foreigners and Puma before losing to DRG in MLG Raleigh. Perhaps not waves, but quite impressive nonetheless.
QUOTE]On October 27 2011 05:49 fraktoasters wrote:
On October 27 2011 03:14 backtoback wrote: with july and nada dominating sc2 after its prime shows that it is possible to switch when you ARE at your prime like forGG is now. KT rolster better switch before HOTS comes out or it will be very very hard to adapt. Also, everyone knew that the switch from bw to sc2 is coming sooner or later.
Neither July nor Nada are anything like "dominating" sc2 at the moment. Are they both Code S players? Yes. Are either of them considered the best players of their respective races? No.
true, but point is JULY and NADA are completely washed up in bw standards and they would get completely rolled in bw.
But in sc2, with minimal effort they are still competitive.
I'd take you up on "minimal effort" - do you know their training schedule? Nor do I, so I won't make assertions about it.
But yes, BW players are likely to do well in SC2. It was more his comment about July and Nada specifically.
You;re right, I don't know their schedule, but i meant minimal as in it didn't seem long for them to get into Code S. I mean they wouldn't sniff Code S in bw now, not even close was my point.
But yes I concede maybe they do train alot, but from what I understand Nada is in college, so I doubt he trains all that much compared to how he should.
Nada has ALWAYS been in code S. So i guess your right, it didnt take him long to get there. He also has never been in the UP and DOWNS too. He plays a ton and this game means a lot to him. Just more BW elitism coming in to play.
On a topic actually worth mentioning, im happy to see forgg make it, from what i heard he is pretty beastly. I cannot wait to see him play!! ^_^
You guys do realize that Nada/July/Boxer started playing not soon after SC2 was out right? You're making it sound like, Nada just instantly appeared and got into GSL, well you know what? So did everyone else in the GSL back then because the game was new so it didn't take anyone "long" to get into Code S. If he had started playing a year after the game was released and other progamers actually had an advantage on him then what you're saying might mean something. [/QUOTE]
Way to go forgetting about beta. Most people had had quite a bit of practise compared to Nada and Boxer. They quite literally just appeared and got into GSL. Now we have people arguing that guys like Grubby are still being handicapped despite starting not that much later than Nada and Boxer.
I honestly won't be surprised if he wins Code A, gets into code S, then wins code S. I wouldn't expect him to win code S today, but I would imagine that he will be capable of winning code A by the time the match comes around. Then once the next code S finals comes around, I think he will be in shape to win it.
And I mean, he plays Terran. He's destined for code S anyway.
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
Yes.
The skills translate from bw to sc2 seamlessly. MVP and Nestea I believe were the best bw players that have been playing sc2 and look at their success.
Guys like Puma, Idra, MC were just B teamers and look how good they are in sc2.
There is no reason on any level to think anybody who was good at bw would suck at sc2.
Pretty sure you need to brush up on some history before you make posts like this.
He'll be one of the people which nerves don't affect I would think. With so much stage experience behind him, he's unlikely to choke, and tbh, I've seen a lot of first timers in Code A choke.
Not trying to be insensitive but I wish Blizzard would grant monetary incentives for more good Brood War pros to switch over, basically speed up the inevitable. Unless I'm mistaken, they practically built up the existing Sc2 scene in Korea by partnering with and probably subsidizing Gom. So I'm sure such a maneuver, other than being slightly more predatory, is not so far off the beaten path of what Blizzard is willing to do to ensure SC2's continued success.
How can ForGG ever do something more awesome than beating jaedong ? It will be impossible Still, one of my favorite terrans. But why did he change his name :/
I doubt any other high-profile BW players will bother switching over until HotS. Why jump on WoL this late when everything is going to be turned upside down soon?
On October 27 2011 06:33 thepuppyassassin wrote: Not trying to be insensitive but I wish Blizzard would grant monetary incentives for more good Brood War pros to switch over, basically speed up the inevitable. Unless I'm mistaken, they practically built up the existing Sc2 scene in Korea by partnering with and probably subsidizing Gom. So I'm sure such a maneuver, other than being slightly more predatory, is not so far off the beaten path of what Blizzard is willing to do to ensure SC2's continued success.
Can't think of any other reason for those 4 BW pros to have been at Blizzcon :X
On October 27 2011 06:21 Amui wrote: He'll be one of the people which nerves don't affect I would think. With so much stage experience behind him, he's unlikely to choke, and tbh, I've seen a lot of first timers in Code A choke.
I think it is the opposite to be honest. He has a name to live up to but without the skill behind it (I'm sure he is really good, but not BW good). As such, I think he will be under more pressure than he is usually used to. Will be interesting to see how he does though. I'm more interested in his style than his results.
On October 26 2011 20:29 ThePhan2m wrote: The end is now, for all the "semi pros" out there. Soon all currently Code A and most of Code S will be gone into Code B when the invation begins... :D
Not sure what an "invation" is...... but that's completely false.
On October 26 2011 20:29 ThePhan2m wrote: The end is now, for all the "semi pros" out there. Soon all currently Code A and most of Code S will be gone into Code B when the invation begins... :D
Not sure what an "invation" is...... but that's completely false.
Yeah I'm sure you didn't know what he meant, right? -_-
I would say this makes fOrGG the 2nd-best "current" BW player to have switched over (after MVP who had finally broken through right before he switched). Maybe 3rd depending how good we all think NaDa was playing. I'm curious to see how he does.
There is an assumption in AI research called "the similarity assumption". It goes something like this: sometimes areas that seem superficially unrelated can have essential qualities in common - qualities that overlap in some way - such that similar experiences can guide future reasoning, problem solving and learning.
I have seen crude forms of this principle stated intuitively in this and other treads previously, so I am in no way inventing it (or even claiming it as my own), I am only trying to formulate it in a succinct way. Let me give it a try (and perhaps fail):
Would LeBron James be good at handball say, or Wayne Gretzky good at bandy? Who knows, but you would probably not be far of if you guessed that they indeed would. Just to give some perspective, here are a couple of analogy's that are probably not good at all: a grand master chess player good at playing Broodwar, or a celebrated architect equally good at Olympic swimming, a mathematical genius that is equally good at writing, a celebrated footballer equally good at skiing or an entrepreneur equally good at politics.
Can you see what I am getting at here .. what I am fumbling about to try to understand? Some people are of-course hilariously talented at almost everything they do - think Leonardo DaVinci, or Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz or Bertrand Russell say - but they are very rare.
Here is one analogy that I just made up, and think is more appropriate for comparing BW and SC2: would a celebrated musician be as good if he switched instrument, or dabbled in another musical genre .. or just played covers of songs by other people. It would seem to me that the skill-set required to be a good musician travels very well within the musical spectrum.
And this is exactly what the similarity assumption says: similar experiences can guide future reasoning, problem solving and learning. Jumping from BW to SC2 is not like jumping from Chess to skiing. It is more like switching instruments at the most, but probably in essence more like switching to another genre of music.
This is why I and many others look at the transition of real BW talent to SC2 with interest. The skill-set required is essentially the same. Mechanics are easier in SC2 but this in turn gives room for more of the rest of the skill-set these players have. And this skill-set is not like switching from painting to gymnastics.
fOrGG switching from BW to SC2 is a data-point for us to understand this process and appreciate the true talent of BW players. I think you are making a colossal mistake if you think Flash, Jaedong or Bisu would be behind the curve if they switched to SC2. Not every BW pro who switches will be successful of course, but if a large enough number of them switch, they will expose the mediocrity of a large number of those we today celebrate as near geniuses of SC2.
On October 27 2011 06:35 Hinanawi wrote: I doubt any other high-profile BW players will bother switching over until HotS. Why jump on WoL this late when everything is going to be turned upside down soon?
Yup! Until LOV comes out no need to worry about BW going anywhere! The game is going to change so drastically with each expansion (not that thats a bad thing.. it just naturally will :D)
On October 26 2011 21:11 Slyce wrote: As a non-BW player I find it hard to get excited about this stuff.
Do people genuinely think that really good BW players will just instantly be amazing at SC2?
Well, you have... BW WC3 SC2
I'm not actually sure of any other (there's probably some I missed) resource-based rts-style games (or I could just say blizzard-style =P) that people will have been playing in recent times.
Starting on one of these will have given you a little over 1 years experience at this point.
On October 27 2011 13:35 LuciferSC wrote: Big congrats to fOrGG!
(BTW he's still playing Terran rite?)
I just don't get why he had to change his ID.. why would he not want to continue his fandom, the people who supports him?
He had already changed his id in BW. Korean players are referred to by their actual names in the Korean scene, so it didn't really matter. It's really more of a foreigner thing to refer to players by their in game id's.
On October 27 2011 13:49 firehand101 wrote: Amazing, if he gets code S and wins, all the BW pros will want to come over as they see what one person can achieve
i dont think all pros will switch since they still get a decent salary and does not rely on winning a tournament.
On October 27 2011 13:49 firehand101 wrote: Amazing, if he gets code S and wins, all the BW pros will want to come over as they see what one person can achieve
i dont think all pros will switch since they still get a decent salary and does not rely on winning a tournament.
i wonder how salary works for jaedong when he got no team... does he still get the same through kespa checks?
Go forgg! He'll probably end up doing extremely well!
Side note: Even though they aren't related, I keep thinking of Luxury and Yarnc whenever someone says/types Park __ Soo lol, ( Park Chan/Myung Soo, silly me haha )
On October 26 2011 20:29 ThePhan2m wrote: The end is now, for all the "semi pros" out there. Soon all currently Code A and most of Code S will be gone into Code B when the invation begins... :D
Starcraft 1 and Starcraft 2 skills are not interchangable. Otherwise Nada and Julyzerg would have at least one championship each.
The experience doesn't hurt, but it mostly only helps in the booth. If they don't take it seriously and practice very hard, they won't actually see any booth games. Pretty crazy eh? But i'm right
On October 26 2011 20:29 ThePhan2m wrote: The end is now, for all the "semi pros" out there. Soon all currently Code A and most of Code S will be gone into Code B when the invation begins... :D
Starcraft 1 and Starcraft 2 skills are not interchangable. Otherwise Nada and Julyzerg would have at least one championship each.
The experience doesn't hurt, but it mostly only helps in the booth. If they don't take it seriously and practice very hard, they won't actually see any booth games. Pretty crazy eh? But i'm right
Except that when Nada and July switched over they were hardly considered good. In fact it was ages since they had any appearance in a proleague game
On October 26 2011 20:29 ThePhan2m wrote: The end is now, for all the "semi pros" out there. Soon all currently Code A and most of Code S will be gone into Code B when the invation begins... :D
Starcraft 1 and Starcraft 2 skills are not interchangable. Otherwise Nada and Julyzerg would have at least one championship each.
The experience doesn't hurt, but it mostly only helps in the booth. If they don't take it seriously and practice very hard, they won't actually see any booth games. Pretty crazy eh? But i'm right
Except that when Nada and July switched over they were hardly considered good. In fact it was ages since they had any appearance in a proleague game
Nada had a bit of a resurgence in PL right before he switched, but you're right about July
On October 26 2011 20:29 ThePhan2m wrote: The end is now, for all the "semi pros" out there. Soon all currently Code A and most of Code S will be gone into Code B when the invation begins... :D
Starcraft 1 and Starcraft 2 skills are not interchangable. Otherwise Nada and Julyzerg would have at least one championship each.
Forgg just played sc2 recently, right? He qualified for code A so quickly. I truly wonder what will happen if all the current best players from BW such as Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fanta, Jangbang begin to play SC2. Probably all the current code S players will drop to code A.
I dont think the very best bw players will switch so sc2 anytime soon. Why should they waive their x00k salaries and choose to earn next to nothing in sc2??
On October 26 2011 20:24 Zephirdd wrote: If the KT house decides to switch to SC2...
The current scene is doomed.
it will be like the great flood sweeping away all the blasphemous meatbags so that the chosen ones can descend from the ark and create a luscious, new world of purity and greatness.
On October 26 2011 20:29 ThePhan2m wrote: The end is now, for all the "semi pros" out there. Soon all currently Code A and most of Code S will be gone into Code B when the invation begins... :D
Starcraft 1 and Starcraft 2 skills are not interchangable. Otherwise Nada and Julyzerg would have at least one championship each.
The experience doesn't hurt, but it mostly only helps in the booth. If they don't take it seriously and practice very hard, they won't actually see any booth games. Pretty crazy eh? But i'm right
July and Nada were both amazing players in their time, but neither are on the A to S level. If brilliant minds like Flash, Bisu, Jaedong switch to SC2, they have the potential to change the metagame forever.
On October 26 2011 20:29 ThePhan2m wrote: The end is now, for all the "semi pros" out there. Soon all currently Code A and most of Code S will be gone into Code B when the invation begins... :D
Starcraft 1 and Starcraft 2 skills are not interchangable. Otherwise Nada and Julyzerg would have at least one championship each.
The experience doesn't hurt, but it mostly only helps in the booth. If they don't take it seriously and practice very hard, they won't actually see any booth games. Pretty crazy eh? But i'm right
Let's make it clear for you Boxer Nada and July are old player their glory belongs to the past. They are legends and actually good players but not as good as the actual sc players.2003 end of Boxer 2006 was the end of Nada 2008 July Who is actually the best in the world on sc2? IMMvp . Here is a quote from liquipedia about him: "He is arguably the highest ranked A-teamer to switch from Broodwar. " He is from the 2009 2010 surely top50 or maybe 30 i don't know about the rank A etc. But could you imagine that there are more than thirty people who are better than him? those guys are monsters and if they switch they'll beat anybody easyly. MC said on SK-Gaming in an interview that if a guy like stork bisu flash jaedong etc switch on sc 2 you wait 1 month and they're n°1 on sc 2 i'm sure that mc knows his subject to say such a thing. the real "Koreans" haven't switched yet.
It's likely he will do well but expecting him to win code S soon is a bit too much imo. I think he can definitely make it if he finds the motivation he made it into such a good player on scbw, yet there are other players with the potential to be monsters that didn't make it as far into their previous games for reasons they might overcome on SC2.
Screw the oGs.Fin news(damnit ForGG you and your stupid constant name switching), the KT Rolster new is giving me nerdchills. The Apocalypse is Coming.
On October 27 2011 23:14 aTnClouD wrote: It's likely he will do well but expecting him to win code S soon is a bit too much imo. I think he can definitely make it if he finds the motivation he made it into such a good player on scbw, yet there are other players with the potential to be monsters that didn't make it as far into their previous games for reasons they might overcome on SC2.
But Code S is not everything. Ogs could start sending him to foreign tournaments if he does well and therefore with MC and forGG have 2 top tier players* which would be a threat for foreign pros like you, no?
On October 27 2011 23:14 aTnClouD wrote: It's likely he will do well but expecting him to win code S soon is a bit too much imo. I think he can definitely make it if he finds the motivation he made it into such a good player on scbw, yet there are other players with the potential to be monsters that didn't make it as far into their previous games for reasons they might overcome on SC2.
But Code S is not everything. Ogs could start sending him to foreign tournaments if he does well and therefore with MC and forGG have 2 top tier players* which would be a threat for foreign pros like you, no?
* I'm not saying the others are bad!!
I wanna see a Nada/MC/forGG/Jinro 4v4 team for the next TL Open 4v4 special :D
On October 27 2011 23:14 aTnClouD wrote: It's likely he will do well but expecting him to win code S soon is a bit too much imo. I think he can definitely make it if he finds the motivation he made it into such a good player on scbw, yet there are other players with the potential to be monsters that didn't make it as far into their previous games for reasons they might overcome on SC2.
Why would him win Code S be to soon? He has been playing sc2 since season 1 so he isn't lacking experience. Nerves and no proper practice will probably not get to him either since he is a legit progamer. With a good Code A season and a good run in Code S he could very well be in the finlas next season no doubt.
On October 27 2011 23:14 aTnClouD wrote: It's likely he will do well but expecting him to win code S soon is a bit too much imo. I think he can definitely make it if he finds the motivation he made it into such a good player on scbw, yet there are other players with the potential to be monsters that didn't make it as far into their previous games for reasons they might overcome on SC2.
Why would him win Code S be to soon? He has been playing sc2 since season 1 so he isn't lacking experience. Nerves and no proper practice will probably not get to him either since he is a legit progamer. With a good Code A season and a good run in Code S he could very well be in the finlas next season no doubt.
I tend to agree. He has no shortage of practice at all with 3 accounts in the top 50 of the KR ladder. Nerves won't be a factor, and with his experience in major SC1 tournaments he knows how to prepare for a match which will be quite suited in the GSL format.
did u guys see ForGG in the korean weekly? he is undeniably a good player but he is nowhere near the top terrans right now. (watch him vs BbongBbong if you want to know what im talking about) at the rate he is improving he will probably get to that level sooner than most other players but the learning curve tends to flatten out the better you get. i wouldnt be surprised to see him go far in code a but i doubt he even is a favorite to get to code s this season. maybe especially since he is facing fucking sage in round 1.
we should give him some time before we hype the shit out of him..
On October 26 2011 20:24 Zephirdd wrote: If the KT house decides to switch to SC2...
The current scene is doomed.
it will be like the great flood sweeping away all the blasphemous meatbags so that the chosen ones can descend from the ark and create a luscious, new world of purity and greatness.
True'er words were never spoken. The people who we worship now for their SC2 play were mediocre at best in BW. Can't wait to see someone in their prime like JD, Bisu, Flash, just imagine what they could do in SC2.
On October 27 2011 23:14 aTnClouD wrote: It's likely he will do well but expecting him to win code S soon is a bit too much imo. I think he can definitely make it if he finds the motivation he made it into such a good player on scbw, yet there are other players with the potential to be monsters that didn't make it as far into their previous games for reasons they might overcome on SC2.
Why would him win Code S be to soon? He has been playing sc2 since season 1 so he isn't lacking experience. Nerves and no proper practice will probably not get to him either since he is a legit progamer. With a good Code A season and a good run in Code S he could very well be in the finlas next season no doubt.
He's been playing since January, and in the lifespan of sc2 that's a pretty big disadvantage considering the game was released in July. That's 5 months. Do you even know how much people can improve over the course of a single month? And even then he hasn't been on a pro team since just recently.
If you've seen him play you'd realize he won't be in the finals of code S, but he does have a *shot* at making code S. There's so many people making blind predictions when they haven't seen him play a SINGLE game but only know of his history and that he's made it into code A. There actually do happen to be games available for you to watch, but for some reason people don't bother and just want to spew random predictions on the off chance they're right.
Outmatched, MVP and NesTea must think of a way to defeat Fantasy!
MVP holds Fantasy back while NesTea charges his Scourge + Baneling energy beam taking out both MVP (who will be later revived by Dragon Balls of course) and Fantasy.
Fantasy loses but warns MVP and Nestea that Flash and Jaedong are coming!
Will MVP and Nestea have what it takes to train and prevent Flash and Jaedong from dominating?
Outmatched, MVP and NesTea must think of a way to defeat Fantasy!
MVP holds Fantasy back while NesTea charges his Scourge + Baneling energy beam taking out both MVP (who will be later revived by Dragon Balls of course) and Fantasy.
Fantasy loses but warns MVP and Nestea that Flash and Jaedong are coming!
Will MVP and Nestea have what it takes to train and prevent Flash and Jaedong from dominating?
To answer your last question, no. Too much raw talent with those two.
On October 27 2011 23:14 aTnClouD wrote: It's likely he will do well but expecting him to win code S soon is a bit too much imo. I think he can definitely make it if he finds the motivation he made it into such a good player on scbw, yet there are other players with the potential to be monsters that didn't make it as far into their previous games for reasons they might overcome on SC2.
Why would him win Code S be to soon? He has been playing sc2 since season 1 so he isn't lacking experience. Nerves and no proper practice will probably not get to him either since he is a legit progamer. With a good Code A season and a good run in Code S he could very well be in the finlas next season no doubt.
I tend to agree. He has no shortage of practice at all with 3 accounts in the top 50 of the KR ladder. Nerves won't be a factor, and with his experience in major SC1 tournaments he knows how to prepare for a match which will be quite suited in the GSL format.
But he probably hasn't practised with the intensity most other currently top player has practised. and in his past performance in the esv korean weekly, his play showed promise, but definitely wasn't top s class.
Outmatched, MVP and NesTea must think of a way to defeat Fantasy!
MVP holds Fantasy back while NesTea charges his Scourge + Baneling energy beam taking out both MVP (who will be later revived by Dragon Balls of course) and Fantasy.
Fantasy loses but warns MVP and Nestea that Flash and Jaedong are coming!
Will MVP and Nestea have what it takes to train and prevent Flash and Jaedong from dominating?
Have you seen Fantasy's vZ?lol
Anyway, really happy with the progress of oGsFin. All his games have looked really solid.
man, if the korean pro scene all switch....the current players will have such a hard time in a matter of a few months....look at ogsFIN and imMVP owning it up here...and they are only considered mid-tier