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When playing against marauders, does the early aggression (where you try to HuK him over) mean that you don't need to grab 4 or so early sentries for defence? I don't seem to be able to afford the gas for sentries and a robo early on after attacking with the 5 stalkers (and the 3 zealots, as it's against marauders).
Also, I found it extremely difficult to prevent bunker rushes on XNC when using this build. I was wondering how you should react when you see SCVs coming with the push.
Thanks for the guide Alej, and thanks for the video guide Cecil. <3333333333333333
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On August 02 2011 06:52 iStarKraft wrote: When playing against marauders, does the early aggression (where you try to HuK him over) mean that you don't need to grab 4 or so early sentries for defence? I don't seem to be able to afford the gas for sentries and a robo early on after attacking with the 5 stalkers (and the 3 zealots, as it's against marauders).
Also, I found it extremely difficult to prevent bunker rushes on XNC when using this build. I was wondering how you should react when you see SCVs coming with the push.
Thanks for the guide Alej, and thanks for the video guide Cecil. <3333333333333333 Yeah you can't get sentries like that. If you want Sentries check my profile for that 3 Gate Expand PvT build. But with this the idea is to get a lot of minerals for Gateways + Nexus, and then just enough vespene for WG/Stalkers.
Also you need to pull probes against a bunker rush. Warp in 2 Cycles if you can, and pull 5-10 probes and clash at the bunkers before the finish. Don't let a bunker finish! You can afford to lose probes because you have such an early Nexus and lots of Chrono to recover. If you end up not losing much you can probably just counter attack and win, or perhaps deal damage/contain.
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Wow... I started using this build a week ago... I've played 7 PvT's in that week... and I won all of them! I got 3 rax'd, I got 1/1/1'd, I got 2 rax'd, I played CC first... This build is beautiful. Thank you Alejandrisha!
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thanks for this build, i use it a lot on ladder : )
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Cecil, I watched your VOD (thanks!) and I noticed you went a sort of hybrid mass gateway/robo style. You got a fairly fast charge and didn't go for fast collosus or templar, instead you ended up with chargelot/sentry/stalker/immortal. What's your logic/idea behind this? I almost never get immos except vs. 1 base all-ins and go either straight for HTs or collosus. However your composition seemed to work really well, my only concern would be the fast ghost/ghost pushes that seem to be gaining popularity. (And on that note would you go fast collo since they have to vikings, or fast HTs to 'counter' the ghosts?)
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On August 02 2011 07:00 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 06:52 iStarKraft wrote: When playing against marauders, does the early aggression (where you try to HuK him over) mean that you don't need to grab 4 or so early sentries for defence? I don't seem to be able to afford the gas for sentries and a robo early on after attacking with the 5 stalkers (and the 3 zealots, as it's against marauders).
Also, I found it extremely difficult to prevent bunker rushes on XNC when using this build. I was wondering how you should react when you see SCVs coming with the push.
Thanks for the guide Alej, and thanks for the video guide Cecil. <3333333333333333 Yeah you can't get sentries like that. If you want Sentries check my profile for that 3 Gate Expand PvT build. But with this the idea is to get a lot of minerals for Gateways + Nexus, and then just enough vespene for WG/Stalkers. Also you need to pull probes against a bunker rush. Warp in 2 Cycles if you can, and pull 5-10 probes and clash at the bunkers before the finish. Don't let a bunker finish! You can afford to lose probes because you have such an early Nexus and lots of Chrono to recover. If you end up not losing much you can probably just counter attack and win, or perhaps deal damage/contain.
Thanks for the really fast answer. (^_^) I'll practice fending off some bunker rushes with my buddies hehe. Looking forward to catching you streaming Cecil.
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On August 02 2011 07:52 iStarKraft wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 07:00 CecilSunkure wrote:On August 02 2011 06:52 iStarKraft wrote: When playing against marauders, does the early aggression (where you try to HuK him over) mean that you don't need to grab 4 or so early sentries for defence? I don't seem to be able to afford the gas for sentries and a robo early on after attacking with the 5 stalkers (and the 3 zealots, as it's against marauders).
Also, I found it extremely difficult to prevent bunker rushes on XNC when using this build. I was wondering how you should react when you see SCVs coming with the push.
Thanks for the guide Alej, and thanks for the video guide Cecil. <3333333333333333 Yeah you can't get sentries like that. If you want Sentries check my profile for that 3 Gate Expand PvT build. But with this the idea is to get a lot of minerals for Gateways + Nexus, and then just enough vespene for WG/Stalkers. Also you need to pull probes against a bunker rush. Warp in 2 Cycles if you can, and pull 5-10 probes and clash at the bunkers before the finish. Don't let a bunker finish! You can afford to lose probes because you have such an early Nexus and lots of Chrono to recover. If you end up not losing much you can probably just counter attack and win, or perhaps deal damage/contain. Thanks for the really fast answer. (^_^) I'll practice fending off some bunker rushes with my buddies hehe. Looking forward to catching you streaming Cecil. Looking forward to seeing you in the stream chat!
On August 02 2011 07:48 Huntz wrote: Cecil, I watched your VOD (thanks!) and I noticed you went a sort of hybrid mass gateway/robo style. You got a fairly fast charge and didn't go for fast collosus or templar, instead you ended up with chargelot/sentry/stalker/immortal. What's your logic/idea behind this? I almost never get immos except vs. 1 base all-ins and go either straight for HTs or collosus. However your composition seemed to work really well, my only concern would be the fast ghost/ghost pushes that seem to be gaining popularity. (And on that note would you go fast collo since they have to vikings, or fast HTs to 'counter' the ghosts?) The idea behind the Immortal/Sentry/Stalker/Zealot is that I can't really be offensive with it, however I can easily be defensive (due to Immortal travel time) with it. I can also take a very fast third with high impunity. Delaying Colossus tech allows me to focus on a late-game centric style, with a lot of upgrades and great eco. Also the Immortals cannot be shot down by Vikings
If you want to try what I did, it's important to constantly have your army spread out in case of EMP, and it's also important to during smaller battles always have your Immortals shooting Marauders.
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Once we start mining gas at 100% and building a stalker before nexus, aren't we back to the age-old 1-gate expand? Not that there's anything wrong with that...
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On August 02 2011 09:15 Keilah wrote: Once we start mining gas at 100% and building a stalker before nexus, aren't we back to the age-old 1-gate expand? Not that there's anything wrong with that... No not really. You sit on nothing for quite a long time, and with my understanding of old 1 Gate FEs you are really hustling to chrono things out of a single Gateway, and then have a more poor of a followup due to delayed WG research. Also, this seems more refined and advanced and elegant to me (as newer strategies usually are).
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This build is amazing it crushes any 1 rax expand or it puts the terran so far behind because im constantly sniping marines/ scvs.
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On August 02 2011 09:19 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 09:15 Keilah wrote: Once we start mining gas at 100% and building a stalker before nexus, aren't we back to the age-old 1-gate expand? Not that there's anything wrong with that... No not really. You sit on nothing for quite a long time, and with my understanding of old 1 Gate FEs you are really hustling to chrono things out of a single Gateway, and then have a more poor of a followup due to delayed WG research. Also, this seems more refined and advanced and elegant to me (as newer strategies usually are).
Well one of the posters is suggesting chronoing out stalkers instead of warpgate
I think the old 1-gate expo worked well because warp tech was so much faster back then and you didn't need to chrono warp as much. Also you needed the early units because terran could go rax before depot. Heh... remember when every PvT build revolved around getting out the stalker in time to kill that damned reaper?
So this is basically the same concept, revised for the updates.
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The previous 1gate FE took a Nexus at around 5mins, this one takes it much much earlier (pre 4mins)
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The old one also got units -> Nexus -> Extra gates where this one goes Nexus -> Extra gates -> Units
thus it powers much more, and builds that power economy or tech safely are usually better builds than those that power units early.
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On August 02 2011 10:52 Dhalphir wrote: The old one also got units -> Nexus -> Extra gates where this one goes Nexus -> Extra gates -> Units
thus it powers much more, and builds that power economy or tech safely are usually better builds than those that power units early. Yeah thanks for this explanation. Due to this this whole opening is much more versatile compared to earlier 1 Gate FE.
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On August 02 2011 07:02 ImmortalTofu wrote: Wow... I started using this build a week ago... I've played 7 PvT's in that week... and I won all of them! I got 3 rax'd, I got 1/1/1'd, I got 2 rax'd, I played CC first... This build is beautiful. Thank you Alejandrisha!
How are you holding 3 rax with pulled SCVs? That's the one thing that's been my bane trying out this build lately (e.g. far positions on Shattered)
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3 rax can be easily held with probe cutting, and warping in only zealots. THe reason why this build is so strong is that you can get 5 stalkers really fast, and 5 stalkers is such a magic number because they can one shot scvs, marines, and 2 shot marauders.
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This build is solid all around. I'm not great against Protoss, but as long as you don't overcommit with your stalkers there's basically no option for Terran to be ahead in game. You can at best be even. The best thing as Terran is probably 1-1-1 with bunker in front and a banshee to force the Protoss to use his stalkers in defence rather than offence.
You can transition into 3 barracks bio play. You force a robotics and you earn time.
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How about deviations like skipping the robo and going for earlier upgrades/charge tech? Would that be considered risky if you scout gas since you would be kind of vulnerable to banshee play?
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If youre going charge, you need a forge with 1 cannon in each min line to detect and you should drop a robo ASAP after researching charge.
My big question of the night is how do you hold the marine/tank/banshee all-ins that are wrecking the GSL right now with a FE? Do you FE 1gate collosus? Because that seems bad.
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