Hey guys! I know I haven't made a map in while, but I will never entirely disappear
This map I have been working on for a while and have had to change it a lot over its lifetime. I know that the aesthetics could probably be made better than what they are now, but I tried my best with the textures, so I hope it's good enough.
Now, time for some pictures and features! Here's a link to most of the images that you can find in this thread.
Last Update:January 30, 2012
Online Status:NA, EU
Now, here's the overview:
Title Set: New Folsom Theme: Lava Bases: 12 (Two are half bases with high yield vespene geysers) Boundaries 116x154 Author: Antares
Description: Insurrection is a standard sized two player macro map. According to Monitor's Examples of Expansion Layouts thread, Insurrection has expansion ambiguity. This basically means that there is a choice in the order of expansions. The expansion against the main can be taken as a third though I think this won't be likely because it doesn't exert much control over the map leading into the late game, though it is good for spotting drops heading to the main. It will probably be one of the last expansions to take since it is located in the opposite direction that it is intended for players to expand to, but it is not a neutral expansion or enemy expansion, and it is not too close to the center of the map to deemed too difficult to control. One of the paths is blocked by two 6x6 destructible rocks. Splash damage will take them down faster. The half bases can also be expanded to at different times, and allow a much stronger presence in the middle of the map. Players will probably take the half bases as their fourth or fifth expansions. Taking one as a third is very risky and difficult to pull off, and in test game this was confirmed. No one expanded to it as a third.
This is to show the vulnerabilities of the natural and how defense would work when you have two bases. There are two ground attack paths that can attack the expansion. Something to note is that the ramps up to the natural are small, but there are two, and once enemy units are up the ramps, there is not any more chokes for them to worry about. This forces a Protoss player to wall from the bottom of the main ramp to the natural's Nexus during a Forge Fast Expand. I hope this style of natural catches on, because I think it is a very cool concept and should be used in more maps.
In this scenario, you can see that the defending player has three bases, and chose to expand to the most likely third, the one on low ground. The blue circles represent expansions, orange ones represent the defending army's position, red arrows represent the attacking army's path, and yellow arrows represent drops. The low ground third covers one of the natural's paths into it (read Base Vulnerabilities and You by Barrin for more on expansions covering expansions) but leaves the other one vulnerable. In this scenario, the ramp that is vulnerable is the one that is closer and easier for your opponent to use. The good news is that if you are Protoss or Terran, when you take your third, you can wall it off with three Gateways/Barracks. You'll also have to watch out for warp ins.
Taking this expansion will be less likely, because it will make taking a fourth more difficult. In this example, you can see that if a drop tries to go for the main, your third will spot it for you. A negative about that, particularly for Zerg, would be that the Medivac/Warp Prism can ferry back and forth up the cliff to avoid Zerglings, attacking both the main and the third. This hardly matters because I cannot fathom why a Zerg player would expand there instead of the low ground third. The army placement in this scenario covers the easy to access natural ramp and leaves the further one unguarded. No matter which third you take, one of the ramps to the natural will be left open. How cool is that?
This is the most likely four base scenario that will appear in games on Insurrection. Here, the defending player will have to defend from mainly three areas: the natural, the third, and the fourth. The main can still be dropped, so building a Supply Depot/Pylon by the rocks could be helpful for spotting drops into the main.
This is a fine example showing the stress on map control that Insurrection provides. This concept is nothing new and has been used on many maps before, but I would still like to point it out. If you control the middle, you can prevent your opponent from taking his half base and allow yourself to get your own half base up and running. Expanding to your opponent's half base is not possible unless you've practically already won the game, because it is so far on the other side of the map. Of course, you will still have to watch for drops at the pocket expansion and fourth, the closest expansions hugging the sides of Insurrection.
Three Bunkers are needed to completely wall someone inside their main base. This could be a problem on the map and will need more testing. On conventional maps, it only takes two Bunkers to wall an enemy in, and on maps with neutral lowered Supply Depots, it will take four or five. Three is in the middle between acceptable and imbalanced. We'll see what happens.
Pylon range from the main over the easily accessible natural choke and pocket expansion.
Pylon range from the main by the natural.
Pylon range at the main covering the pocket expansion. Pylons can also be on the low ground and can warp into the main with sight, so keep that in mind.
I have already showed this screenshot, but I might as well show it again. Pylons here can spot drops. Note how Pylons cannot warp in over the unpathable high ground, and Pylons on the other side of the rocks have a tiny sliver of warp in area.
Pylons in the middle. Only two Pylons can be built inside the line of sight blockers by the Xel'naga Tower.
Pylons cannot warp in over these pieces of high ground either.
Overlords can be seen in their natural habits chilling above the high grounds in the middle of Insurrection. All three of these ones are outside the range of the Xel'naga Tower. Fascinating!
Yes, they can spy on your natural expansion.
Spying on the pocket expansion. Also outside of the Xel'naga Tower's range.
TLDR: Cool map bro.
Please tell me what you guys think about Insurrection! I'd love to hear what everyone has to say, and am always looking for feedback and ways to improve my maps!
Really cool map. A lot of neat stuff. One thing I noticed though is that the high yield gas base gives a really strong position... It's on a high ground in the center of the map and it has a watchtower. Maybe if the watchtowers could be moved to the low ground it would be better? I dunno...
Anyway, I really like the whole feel the map gives with the interworking pathways meeting at right angles all throughout the map. I think it will give some great positional gameplay as well as some fun counterattacks.
On January 22 2012 06:23 RumbleBadger wrote: Really cool map. A lot of neat stuff. One thing I noticed though is that the high yield gas base gives a really strong position... It's on a high ground in the center of the map and it has a watchtower. Maybe if the watchtowers could be moved to the low ground it would be better? I dunno...
Anyway, I really like the whole feel the map gives with the interworking pathways meeting at right angles all throughout the map. I think it will give some great positional gameplay as well as some fun counterattacks.
Thanks!
Those bases are supposed to give really strong positions, and the map is very centered around map control. If they are deemed too powerful, I will move the towers to another location. Counter attacks are very easy due to the side paths (which are not seen by the towers) and really add a lot to map control.
Insurrection is a pretty technical map and not very noob friendly due to all of the stress on map control. I hope that the map isn't too gimmicky because of this, so I'm going to have to see what the community thinks in the next MotM.
On January 22 2012 07:34 Barrin wrote: This map is wonderful! :D
To get super nitpicky, perhaps the openness in some ramp areas could be more ideal (the main/nat and both thirds are prbly perfect), as you are already pointed out to me (I agree).
This map is a testament to how interesting/unique a map made with circle syndrome in mind can be in the right hands. With the rather large central map width/length (combined with essentially no circle syndrome, these two things together are not common), I see a rather high skill ceiling in this map.
Thanks!
I am currently working out the proportions and openness vs chokes. I am glad that someone else sees the high skill ceiling on Insurrection! I am actually worried that it could be a bad thing though, as it might scare away less skilled players. I will keep everyone posted on that kind of stuff, and will be running some test games tomorrow hopefully.
I remember trying to set up the geysers like that to stop the bunker placement, but when I tested it you were still walled in by two. Did you test yours? I think it's the same.
I've never been fond of having multiple entrances to a natural, but I feel like your choice to have one ramp overlooked by highground may help negate the problems with that kind of setup.
The 6-patch bases feel a little too powerful for terran if PFed up, but it'd take playtesting to be sure.
Overall, very solid map that will likely lead to long games and a lot of fun. Props!
On January 23 2012 11:11 Gfire wrote: I remember trying to set up the geysers like that to stop the bunker placement, but when I tested it you were still walled in by two. Did you test yours? I think it's the same.
According to the green which represents unit pathing, it should take three Bunkers to wall it off. I have not tested it in game, and I will make sure I do that when I run tests for another map of mine which everyone will see within the week^^
On January 23 2012 11:20 Derpmallow wrote: I've never been fond of having multiple entrances to a natural, but I feel like your choice to have one ramp overlooked by highground may help negate the problems with that kind of setup.
The 6-patch bases feel a little too powerful for terran if PFed up, but it'd take playtesting to be sure.
Overall, very solid map that will likely lead to long games and a lot of fun. Props!
It could be a bit powerful, but it is very difficult to take as a third, but who knows, the test results may disagree.
If you note that the ramp that is overlooked by the main is also the one that your opponent will use the most because it is the fastest route main to main and nat to nat. Which actually reminds me, I still do not have analyzer images up for Insurrection. My apologies, they will be up soon!
On January 23 2012 11:35 AdrianHealey wrote: This map is fucking brilliant.
Thanks^^
So, analyzer images, test games, and map no.2 coming up on my to-do list. Stay tuned!
I'm finding the overview robs me of the will to see. Sooo much gray :[
I'm going to consider this a challenge, to make a good looking New Folsom map. Your layout is very technical/awesome/whatnot, but seriously. I'm in pain.
I do really like it as a well thought out map though. I love the base progression from natural to 4th, as well as the aspect of map control in the center. Really cool stuff. I'd be hard-pressed to poke holes in it.
On January 23 2012 13:14 MisfortuneS Ghost wrote: I'm finding the overview robs me of the will to see. Sooo much gray :[
I'm going to consider this a challenge, to make a good looking New Folsom map. Your layout is very technical/awesome/whatnot, but seriously. I'm in pain.
I do really like it as a well thought out map though. I love the base progression from natural to 4th, as well as the aspect of map control in the center. Really cool stuff. I'd be hard-pressed to poke holes in it.
Ahaha, yeah... first lava map by me (and probably my last).
I am still testing the map out, but I do not have any new versions ready yet :/ which either means I either don't know what I am testing for or the map is pretty good already^^
On January 23 2012 13:14 MisfortuneS Ghost wrote: I'm finding the overview robs me of the will to see. Sooo much gray :[
I'm going to consider this a challenge, to make a good looking New Folsom map. Your layout is very technical/awesome/whatnot, but seriously. I'm in pain.
I do really like it as a well thought out map though. I love the base progression from natural to 4th, as well as the aspect of map control in the center. Really cool stuff. I'd be hard-pressed to poke holes in it.
Ahaha, yeah... first lava map by me (and probably my last).
Don't write off a tileset that easily dude! I mean, you can give up on lava if you want, but it's all a matter of embracing the theme you're using. A more obvious example of this, trying to texture a Korhal map like you're using Bel'Shir. No, this doesn't work. I guess play around a bit and find texture combos that look cool. Every tileset has at least 1 or 2, but you didn't find any of 'em here :p
Oh, and I was serious about making a New Folsom map. It's in the works right now
How does PvZ play out on this map? To be honest from first glance it looks like it might be extremely difficult for the protoss to take a 3rd. I think I'd like 3rds in the NE and SW corners to be closer to the natural. Although if you've had playtesting that shows PvZ is fine then keep it as it is.
My other concern (not as big as the PvZ one) is TvZ where they could pfort up the 1/2 base and with siege tanks just take control of the entire middle. I know there are two paths around but it still seems like it would be an extremely strong spot for terran to fortify up and I'm unsure if the zerg could ever break it and would then just have to rely on counter attacks and/or mutas.
Quite possibly tomorrow when I'm back on my main computer and not trolling on my laptop I'll open up sc2 and play a game on this map to get a better feel of it.
What flow! The overall feel of the map is quite nice. If you imagine little people walking around on the map, they're never stuck with nowhere to go. I like it!
On January 29 2012 00:36 lovablemikey wrote: What flow! The overall feel of the map is quite nice. If you imagine little people walking around on the map, they're never stuck with nowhere to go. I like it!
Thanks!
On January 26 2012 15:26 SidianTheBard wrote: How does PvZ play out on this map? To be honest from first glance it looks like it might be extremely difficult for the protoss to take a 3rd. I think I'd like 3rds in the NE and SW corners to be closer to the natural. Although if you've had playtesting that shows PvZ is fine then keep it as it is.
My other concern (not as big as the PvZ one) is TvZ where they could pfort up the 1/2 base and with siege tanks just take control of the entire middle. I know there are two paths around but it still seems like it would be an extremely strong spot for terran to fortify up and I'm unsure if the zerg could ever break it and would then just have to rely on counter attacks and/or mutas.
Quite possibly tomorrow when I'm back on my main computer and not trolling on my laptop I'll open up sc2 and play a game on this map to get a better feel of it.
The new version (http://i.imgur.com/7yw7y.jpg) has a more secure third, though it is not any closer to the natural. I am hoping that this change will help Protoss in their match ups.
So far, Terran doesn't seem too domineering on this map, even with the existence of those half bases and nearby Xel'naga Towers. This is something that I am still looking at for feedback, and probably will be for a very long time.
I submitted TPW Insurrection for the next MotM a few moments ago, so wish me luck! I am not sure if I will have a second map ready in time. I thought I would, but right now it is looking like I will have to wait at least another month for it. We shall see.
I love the analysis. It's great to see the recent circle syndrome discussions be implemented in such a thoughtful way. My one question has to do with the late-game scenario: you show the theoretical army positions cutting off the center quite well, but does it work that way in actual games? My instinct tells me that armies are going to want to hug the watch tower, making it easier to cover the 4th and 5th (and puts them in a good position to attack the pocket expo). This leaves their own pocket expansion exposed (more so than in your scenario) and ultimately the deciding base (as opposed to the half base). Has it worked out this way in test games? Or has it worked as you intended?
I am very curious to see games played on this map.