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On May 21 2012 06:48 GreyKnight wrote: Good job violet but winners bracket advantage still makes the finals feel silly.
There has to be a better way
with or without the advantage, violet still would have won. and if he was disadvantaged, he would have been ahead after taking the first bo5 3-1.
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On May 21 2012 06:19 Malaz wrote: Just read the headline about Violet winning a major tournament... Was this really a major tournament? Yes, the line-up was really good and all, but in my opinion the fans and the hype surrounding an event are also a big part of what turns a normal tournamet into a major event. The LR-Thread of the final day doesn't even have 100 pages and I think I'm not the only one that couldn't care less for a PPV event like this one.
Gratz to Violet though.
Be mad at the PPV model they use but that doesn't make this a lesser tournament. This tournament had a ton of huge names. Really outside of GSL, MLG is the biggest tournament. It draws people from all regions and this wasn't some local tournament he won.
Violet won a major tournament and he deserves to be held up because he came out on top.
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On May 21 2012 06:54 HappyTimePANDA wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 06:19 Malaz wrote: Just read the headline about Violet winning a major tournament... Was this really a major tournament? Yes, the line-up was really good and all, but in my opinion the fans and the hype surrounding an event are also a big part of what turns a normal tournamet into a major event. The LR-Thread of the final day doesn't even have 100 pages and I think I'm not the only one that couldn't care less for a PPV event like this one.
Gratz to Violet though. Be mad at the PPV model they use but that doesn't make this a lesser tournament. This tournament had a ton of huge names. Really outside of GSL, MLG is the biggest tournament. It draws people from all regions and this wasn't some local tournament he won. Violet won a major tournament and he deserves to be held up because he came out on top.
I think mlg championships are major tournaments, arenas might have big names but they are "arenas" an addition to the real big tournament, the championship.
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On May 21 2012 06:48 GreyKnight wrote: Good job violet but winners bracket advantage still makes the finals feel silly.
There has to be a better way
Really? You complain on the setup? Would you still have this argument if it was one of the favorites in finals?
Personally I like the format, but either way just give Violet his props. He earned this.
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On May 21 2012 06:39 CrazyBirdman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 06:29 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 21 2012 06:26 Looms wrote:On May 21 2012 06:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 21 2012 06:19 Malaz wrote: Just read the headline about Violet winning a major tournament... Was this really a major tournament? Yes, the line-up was really good and all, but in my opinion the fans and the hype surrounding an event are also a big part of what turns a normal tournamet into a major event. The LR-Thread of the final day doesn't even have 100 pages and I think I'm not the only one that couldn't care less for a PPV event like this one.
Gratz to Violet though. the only reason it has less hype is cause of PPV. but this has to qualify as a major tournament. the line up is what determines that, not hype or fan attendance. lol so how many majors do we have then? kinda defeats the purpose of calling it a major when there are 20 majors throughout the year. well more and more tournaments are getting stacked line ups. this event was more difficult to win than the last DreamHack. I don't see how we can't call it a major tournament And Liquipedia says somthing completly different. Anyway, that tournament was stacked and Violet won it, no matter how you classify it. Congratulations to him, now with an IEM and MLG win this year, impressive. so because no one has updated Liquipedia to be on that list it isn't a major tournament? They listed the first Spring Arena as one so how can the second Spring Arena not be? If an 8 man arena is a major tournament, the 32 man one is for sure. I would actually question if the 8 man arena is just because 8 players is too low to be considered a major.
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Of course this is a premier tournament. If IEM's and Dreamhack's which contain 1-3 Code S players are top tournaments then this sure as hell is.
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On May 21 2012 06:45 SeaSwift wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 06:39 CrazyBirdman wrote:On May 21 2012 06:29 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 21 2012 06:26 Looms wrote:On May 21 2012 06:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 21 2012 06:19 Malaz wrote: Just read the headline about Violet winning a major tournament... Was this really a major tournament? Yes, the line-up was really good and all, but in my opinion the fans and the hype surrounding an event are also a big part of what turns a normal tournamet into a major event. The LR-Thread of the final day doesn't even have 100 pages and I think I'm not the only one that couldn't care less for a PPV event like this one.
Gratz to Violet though. the only reason it has less hype is cause of PPV. but this has to qualify as a major tournament. the line up is what determines that, not hype or fan attendance. lol so how many majors do we have then? kinda defeats the purpose of calling it a major when there are 20 majors throughout the year. well more and more tournaments are getting stacked line ups. this event was more difficult to win than the last DreamHack. I don't see how we can't call it a major tournament And Liquipedia says somthing completly different. Anyway, that tournament was stacked and Violet won it, no matter how you classify it. Congratulations to him, now with an IEM and MLG win this year, impressive. That's because Liquipedia has this as a Premier Tournament instead of a "major tournament". I know, just wanted to say that Violets run through the bracket speaks for itself and that the whole discussion whether it is "major" or "premier" or whatever is kind of useless. A great performance should not be talked away by terminology.
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On May 21 2012 07:01 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 06:39 CrazyBirdman wrote:On May 21 2012 06:29 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 21 2012 06:26 Looms wrote:On May 21 2012 06:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 21 2012 06:19 Malaz wrote: Just read the headline about Violet winning a major tournament... Was this really a major tournament? Yes, the line-up was really good and all, but in my opinion the fans and the hype surrounding an event are also a big part of what turns a normal tournamet into a major event. The LR-Thread of the final day doesn't even have 100 pages and I think I'm not the only one that couldn't care less for a PPV event like this one.
Gratz to Violet though. the only reason it has less hype is cause of PPV. but this has to qualify as a major tournament. the line up is what determines that, not hype or fan attendance. lol so how many majors do we have then? kinda defeats the purpose of calling it a major when there are 20 majors throughout the year. well more and more tournaments are getting stacked line ups. this event was more difficult to win than the last DreamHack. I don't see how we can't call it a major tournament And Liquipedia says somthing completly different. Anyway, that tournament was stacked and Violet won it, no matter how you classify it. Congratulations to him, now with an IEM and MLG win this year, impressive. so because no one has updated Liquipedia to be on that list it isn't a major tournament? They listed the first Spring Arena as one so how can the second Spring Arena not be? If an 8 man arena is a major tournament, the 32 man one is for sure. I would actually question if the 8 man arena is just because 8 players is too low to be considered a major.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments
It IS a major tournament.
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Kong zerg Symbol finished 2nd at MLG Spring Arena 2
who is surprised? :D
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On May 21 2012 06:57 0kz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 06:54 HappyTimePANDA wrote:On May 21 2012 06:19 Malaz wrote: Just read the headline about Violet winning a major tournament... Was this really a major tournament? Yes, the line-up was really good and all, but in my opinion the fans and the hype surrounding an event are also a big part of what turns a normal tournamet into a major event. The LR-Thread of the final day doesn't even have 100 pages and I think I'm not the only one that couldn't care less for a PPV event like this one.
Gratz to Violet though. Be mad at the PPV model they use but that doesn't make this a lesser tournament. This tournament had a ton of huge names. Really outside of GSL, MLG is the biggest tournament. It draws people from all regions and this wasn't some local tournament he won. Violet won a major tournament and he deserves to be held up because he came out on top. I think mlg championships are major tournaments, arenas might have big names but they are "arenas" an addition to the real big tournament, the championship.
Yes the final is what matters overall. Of course how many can say they even came close to that? And each arena is everyone trying to reach the top.
The championships are the playoffs, but winning an arena is like finishing first in your division.
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major tournament ≠ a "major" in my opinion. i say this because the term comes from golf/tennis (at least it does for me..) where there are only 4 majors and they have a lot of history, prestige, etc. when this is only the first year for doing arenas AND MLG puts on much bigger events 3+ times a year, i simply dont see the tournament as a major. sure it may be a major tournament with great players, but its not a major.
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On May 21 2012 07:07 Looms wrote: major tournament ≠ a "major" in my opinion. i say this because the term comes from golf/tennis (at least it does for me..) where there are only 4 majors and they have a lot of history, prestige, etc. when this is only the first year for doing arenas AND MLG puts on much bigger events 3+ times a year, i simply dont see the tournament as a major. sure it may be a major tournament with great players, but its not a major.
In that case the only true majors are GSL's.
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Just got back from a barcraft, and it was relatively dissapointing compared to most other finals i've seen recently. Not only were the top three zergs, and the matches so quick that the event which was expected to go on to about 2, over by 10:30 pm. But the two final players were players which noone there really knew anything about, so noone really cared about the result, and the commentaters never gave any background information on them other then that violet lived in us or something like that. Also, there was quite a bit of lag, which was exactly the same on all graphics quality levels, the people there said it was mlg side. But it kind of ruined a lot of the suspenseful moments.
While high level ZvZ might be interesting for zergs looking to steal builds, as a spectator sport it isn't at all really very enthralling. (there were about 20 people chatting and eating snacks not paying attention to stream as the final battle went on, as nobody really cared a huge amount by that point. All the energy was gone from having already seen 8 zvz's or so and not rooting for anyone, combined with constant lag during fights,)
I understand that mlg can't control the brackets, but at least invite more top tiere players of other races so you don't get only zvz's. It's up there with pvp as the worst matchup for a spectator who isn't really familiar with the matchup, especially a bunch of times in a row.
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On May 21 2012 07:04 SeaSwift wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 07:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 21 2012 06:39 CrazyBirdman wrote:On May 21 2012 06:29 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 21 2012 06:26 Looms wrote:On May 21 2012 06:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 21 2012 06:19 Malaz wrote: Just read the headline about Violet winning a major tournament... Was this really a major tournament? Yes, the line-up was really good and all, but in my opinion the fans and the hype surrounding an event are also a big part of what turns a normal tournamet into a major event. The LR-Thread of the final day doesn't even have 100 pages and I think I'm not the only one that couldn't care less for a PPV event like this one.
Gratz to Violet though. the only reason it has less hype is cause of PPV. but this has to qualify as a major tournament. the line up is what determines that, not hype or fan attendance. lol so how many majors do we have then? kinda defeats the purpose of calling it a major when there are 20 majors throughout the year. well more and more tournaments are getting stacked line ups. this event was more difficult to win than the last DreamHack. I don't see how we can't call it a major tournament And Liquipedia says somthing completly different. Anyway, that tournament was stacked and Violet won it, no matter how you classify it. Congratulations to him, now with an IEM and MLG win this year, impressive. so because no one has updated Liquipedia to be on that list it isn't a major tournament? They listed the first Spring Arena as one so how can the second Spring Arena not be? If an 8 man arena is a major tournament, the 32 man one is for sure. I would actually question if the 8 man arena is just because 8 players is too low to be considered a major. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_TournamentsIt IS a major tournament. ah I see now. Liquipedia pulled a fast one on me!
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On May 21 2012 07:21 killerdog wrote: Just got back from a barcraft, and it was relatively dissapointing compared to most other finals i've seen recently. Not only were the top three zergs, and the matches so quick that the event which was expected to go on to about 2, over by 10:30 pm. But the two final players were players which noone there really knew anything about, so noone really cared about the result, and the commentaters never gave any background information on them other then that violet lived in us or something like that. Also, there was quite a bit of lag, which was exactly the same on all graphics quality levels, the people there said it was mlg side. But it kind of ruined a lot of the suspenseful moments.
While high level ZvZ might be interesting for zergs looking to steal builds, as a spectator sport it isn't at all really very enthralling. (there were about 20 people chatting and eating snacks not paying attention to stream as the final battle went on, as nobody really cared a huge amount by that point. All the energy was gone from having already seen 8 zvz's or so and not rooting for anyone, combined with constant lag during fights,)
I understand that mlg can't control the brackets, but at least invite more top tiere players of other races so you don't get only zvz's. It's up there with pvp as the worst matchup for a spectator who isn't really familiar with the matchup, especially a bunch of times in a row. how do people not know about Violet and Symbol?
and MLG didn't invite anyone, there were qualifiers.
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On May 21 2012 07:07 Looms wrote: major tournament ≠ a "major" in my opinion. i say this because the term comes from golf/tennis (at least it does for me..) where there are only 4 majors and they have a lot of history, prestige, etc. when this is only the first year for doing arenas AND MLG puts on much bigger events 3+ times a year, i simply dont see the tournament as a major. sure it may be a major tournament with great players, but its not a major.
GSL and MLG are the majors of SC2. Each MLG is like a individual tennis cup. But it adds up to a "super cup."
Comparing ESports to others is hard but thats what it would be. If we are comparing to tennis then Gsl works like a normal tournament. But MLG is like you play the tournaments and then take the finalists to play a "super" tournament. It would be like saying the top from Australian , US, British Open winners play in a overall tournament at the end of the season.
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Congrats to violet, I hope its a good sign for Machine after he 2-0'd him last they met.
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On May 21 2012 07:21 killerdog wrote: Just got back from a barcraft, and it was relatively dissapointing compared to most other finals i've seen recently. Not only were the top three zergs, and the matches so quick that the event which was expected to go on to about 2, over by 10:30 pm. But the two final players were players which noone there really knew anything about, so noone really cared about the result, and the commentaters never gave any background information on them other then that violet lived in us or something like that. Also, there was quite a bit of lag, which was exactly the same on all graphics quality levels, the people there said it was mlg side. But it kind of ruined a lot of the suspenseful moments.
While high level ZvZ might be interesting for zergs looking to steal builds, as a spectator sport it isn't at all really very enthralling. (there were about 20 people chatting and eating snacks not paying attention to stream as the final battle went on, as nobody really cared a huge amount by that point. All the energy was gone from having already seen 8 zvz's or so and not rooting for anyone, combined with constant lag during fights,)
I understand that mlg can't control the brackets, but at least invite more top tiere players of other races so you don't get only zvz's. It's up there with pvp as the worst matchup for a spectator who isn't really familiar with the matchup, especially a bunch of times in a row.
If you don't know who Violet is you know nothing about the game period.
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On May 21 2012 07:24 HappyTimePANDA wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 07:07 Looms wrote: major tournament ≠ a "major" in my opinion. i say this because the term comes from golf/tennis (at least it does for me..) where there are only 4 majors and they have a lot of history, prestige, etc. when this is only the first year for doing arenas AND MLG puts on much bigger events 3+ times a year, i simply dont see the tournament as a major. sure it may be a major tournament with great players, but its not a major. GSL and MLG are the majors of SC2. Each MLG is like a individual tennis cup. But it adds up to a "super cup." Comparing ESports to others is hard but thats what it would be. If we are comparing to tennis then Gsl works like a normal tournament. But MLG is like you play the tournaments and then take the finalists to play a "super" tournament. It would be like saying the top from Australian , US, British Open winners play in a overall tournament at the end of the season.
GSL is easily the most prestigious tournament, it sits above all else.
After that every foreign LAN is pretty much judged on the player pool in attendance on the day. So Dreamhack's in the past have been a reasonably big deal but the one Thorzain won wasn't because of the player pool. Assembly used to be a kind of tier below tournament, but the one Polt won had a lot of top tier players there.
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I think of tournaments in terms of prize pool (because really, that's what matters to the players and the stake at hand makes a tournament that much more official and a bigger deal)
$26,400 is more than IEM Global Challenges and Homestory Cup, and the MLG Winter Arena. If you think of any of those tournaments as "Major", then so was this Spring Arena.
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