That being said, I really despise the "patch zergs". Their play is so "generic".
[TSL4] Ro16 Monday (Previously Day 1) - Page 86
Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments |
Wintex
Norway16831 Posts
That being said, I really despise the "patch zergs". Their play is so "generic". | ||
fishjie
United States1519 Posts
On August 14 2012 16:14 xrapture wrote: I don't understand why people always make this claim with so much certainty. People are born equal, as in deserving of the same rights, but they aren't born the same. Most people accept that Africans/African Americans are born with more fast twitch muscle fibers than other races and perform better in sports like the 100m/200m and basketball, (there have been studies on this, read http://www.constructal.org/en/art/THE_EVOLUTION_OF_SPEED_IN ATHLETICS.pdf) while other races perform better in distance races and swimming events. People are easy to accept physical differences among races, but REFUSE to accept any form of mental difference. Look, IQ studies have shown that South Korea has a higher IQ than other countries in the world. And before you dismiss IQ as having no impact on SC2 performance, look at the best chess players of all time. Many top level grandmaster chess players have IQs over 160! You're say this correlation means nothing? IQ doesn't mean everything of course, but it is a factor and it's largely determining of one's success. Look at studies done to measure the average IQ of various occupations. College professors and Surgeons are at the summit and janitors are at the bottom. It's easy as hell to say, "given enough hard work and dedication foreigners would be as good as Koreans." Given enough hardwork and dedication would you or I be an NBA player? FUCK NO. Could we be grandmaster chess players? FUCK NO. Could Avilo be IMMVP? Well, answer for yourself. Who knows? Anything is possible right? since when did chess grandmasters have high IQ? source? chess isn't about how intelligent you are. i can and have beat MIT graduates. big deal. its a completely different skill set. ditto with video games. also, IQ is a highly overrated test. NBA is about genetics. and unless you believe in some sort of KKK reasoning that there is a master race, there is absolutely no reason why any given race cannot be good enough to play at an NBA level, given a person is over 6 feet tall. and seeing all the basketball teams on the olympics, every race can produce people of over 6 feet tall, its just that USA training is vastly superior. same as video games. video games are way less physically demanding. all that matters is that you start at a young age, play MINIMUM 10 hours a day, have good training partners and coaches and infrastructure. so no, avilo will never be good at the game. | ||
elKaDor
Sweden376 Posts
On August 14 2012 08:32 Psychobabas wrote: Keen will most likely beat Recco... and... Who am I kidding, lost interest in TSL already. Indeed, much funnier without koreans or "Less" koreans | ||
elKaDor
Sweden376 Posts
On August 14 2012 11:03 jj33 wrote: And you don't get to know many of these non korean players either. so once again it's bs. Rofl u mad? ofc its boring to watch the end of TSL 4 now because its boring people that are left, And NO not because they are koreans, they hasnt shown any personality, plays of a book and nothing unorthodox comes out anytime. | ||
Djin)ftw(
Germany3357 Posts
On August 14 2012 18:02 fishjie wrote: since when did chess grandmasters have high IQ? source? chess isn't about how intelligent you are. i can and have beat MIT graduates. big deal. its a completely different skill set. ditto with video games. also, IQ is a highly overrated test. NBA is about genetics. and unless you believe in some sort of KKK reasoning that there is a master race, there is absolutely no reason why any given race cannot be good enough to play at an NBA level, given a person is over 6 feet tall. and seeing all the basketball teams on the olympics, every race can produce people of over 6 feet tall, its just that USA training is vastly superior. same as video games. video games are way less physically demanding. all that matters is that you start at a young age, play MINIMUM 10 hours a day, have good training partners and coaches and infrastructure. so no, avilo will never be good at the game. Well, I'm pretty sure there is more to it than that. I for example find it exhausting to play with more than 200 APM. Im sure there are a lot of people who can do that withput breaking a sweat.Sure i could train a lot and get used to it, but so can the other guy and he will play with 250 APM then. And being tall isnt the only requirement for being a good basketball player, as you know. The tallest man of earth cant walk properly and afaik black people - on average - can jump higher than caucasion males, so they they probably have - on average - a natural advantage. I dont see why that shouldnt be the case for "IQ" or "intelligence" -> chess performance, xyz -> StarCraft2 performance | ||
murphs
Ireland417 Posts
At the end of the day, for me and for many other people it became apparent sometime ago that SC2 is not interesting enough as a game to simply tune in to watch two Koreans who are awesome but otherwise you have never seen before. The best example is IPL4. Stephano vs MMA 75-80k viewers on stream. Stephano (the final foreigner) loses, viewership plummets to 50K and only recovers to 60k. Although I personally did watch the rest of the tournament, I didn't care about who won at that point. People who think it's all about watching the best guys are deluded. If you'd be happy locking Taeja and DRG in a room and make them play non stop for 2 years and you find it entertaining, that's your problem. It's also healthy for the foreign scene and SC2 in general if foreigners win stuff. Give me an Idra (lol) winning a major tournament over any korean any day. It will do much more good for SC2. | ||
Shinta)
United States1716 Posts
On August 14 2012 20:06 murphs wrote: There's nothing racist about what I said. It's actually a fact that those koreans are not well known at all. I can only picture Keens face and maybe Curious and I watch every tournament and the GSL. At the end of the day, for me and for many other people it became apparent sometime ago that SC2 is not interesting enough as a game to simply tune in to watch two Koreans who are awesome but otherwise you have never seen before. The best example is IPL4. Stephano vs MMA 75-80k viewers on stream. Stephano (the final foreigner) loses, viewership plummets to 50K and only recovers to 60k. Although I personally did watch the rest of the tournament, I didn't care about who won at that point. People who think it's all about watching the best guys are deluded. If you'd be happy locking Taeja and DRG in a room and make them play non stop for 2 years and you find it entertaining, that's your problem. It's also healthy for the foreign scene and SC2 in general if foreigners win stuff. Give me an Idra (lol) winning a major tournament over any korean any day. It will do much more good for SC2. On the contrary, if Stephano would have won, I would have stopped caring. Why are we talking about this again? | ||
ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On August 14 2012 20:06 murphs wrote: There's nothing racist about what I said. It's actually a fact that those koreans are not well known at all. I can only picture Keens face and maybe Curious and I watch every tournament and the GSL. At the end of the day, for me and for many other people it became apparent sometime ago that SC2 is not interesting enough as a game to simply tune in to watch two Koreans who are awesome but otherwise you have never seen before. The best example is IPL4. Stephano vs MMA 75-80k viewers on stream. Stephano (the final foreigner) loses, viewership plummets to 50K and only recovers to 60k. Although I personally did watch the rest of the tournament, I didn't care about who won at that point. People who think it's all about watching the best guys are deluded. If you'd be happy locking Taeja and DRG in a room and make them play non stop for 2 years and you find it entertaining, that's your problem. It's also healthy for the foreign scene and SC2 in general if foreigners win stuff. Give me an Idra (lol) winning a major tournament over any korean any day. It will do much more good for SC2. You must barely watch GSL if you can barely remember Keen's face... | ||
murphs
Ireland417 Posts
| ||
Dexington
Canada7276 Posts
The rest of the Koreans are completely interchangeable to me in that I know absolutely nothing about them. Why watch a game I have no interest in because I care nothing about the players? This is not limited to Koreans, there are just as many foreign players I couldn't give a damn about. The thing is though, there are many more foreign players that I do give a damn about because they are more accessible, public and therefore, for me, easier to get behind. Hell, I absolutely despise Naniwa. I think he's the worst personality in eSports. But I love watching him play because I love watching him lose. I get so much joy out of a Zerg crushing him every time that I will watch every one of his tournament games just to see that happen. It's the same reason I watch the Miami Heat, to see LeBron lose because he's an arrogant asshole. But then let's look at players like Seed or TaeJa, two of the best in the world right now. Especially Seed, I don't know anything about him personally, I just know he's good at the game. I have no reason to be invested in anything he plays and quite frankly am not interested that he won GSL. TaeJa has been stomping through nerds left and right, but he doesn't say anything. However, Taeja is getting to be a point of interest for me as he slowly becomes a (and this is a stretch of a comparison) John Cena of the WWE figure, where he is completely unbeatable, and you tune in just to watch him lose. TL;DR, that is why I don't like watching most Koreans. Not racism, indifference. | ||
The Final Boss
United States1839 Posts
On August 14 2012 10:52 CosmicSpiral wrote: People liked Mycerion because they could project their own biases and expectations upon him. Being a blank slate was good for him; the audience could assume that he was relatable in the first place (foreign unknown player and yada yada yada) and made up the connotations as they went along. There is almost no shit-talking or personal controversy within the Korean scene. Even the foreign scene pales in comparison to the FGC in that department, except the FGC doesn't take itself seriously enough to get riled up about it. Koreans rarely talk about their personal lives and they all generally have the same aspirations. This makes it very hard to differentiate between them without extensive knowledge. The point I am trying to make is that the reason why players like mycerion get attention but "blank slate" players like Hack, First, or Curious get very little attention is because mycerion is not Korean. It has nothing to do with the Korean's lack of interaction or public personality, because mycerion had none of that either. It's because they are Korean. The best way to put this was posted by Wax: On August 14 2012 12:49 Waxangel wrote: it's racism, but you don't have to be afraid of the word | ||
stratmatt
United States913 Posts
| ||
Irre
United States646 Posts
| ||
furerkip
United States439 Posts
| ||
dizzy101
Netherlands2066 Posts
Korean-only tournaments (especially online ones, where you see no player reaction or interaction) simply aren't as fun to watch as ones with foreigners in them. One of the reasons is that we just don't KNOW these Koreans. Like, take the terrans Hack or Sting. Who knows anything about these players? Of course, there are exceptions, like MC and Polt and Hero, but many of the Koreans--in the minds of foreign viewers--are interchangeable and viewers simply aren't emotionally invested in these games. | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On August 15 2012 02:14 The Final Boss wrote: The point I am trying to make is that the reason why players like mycerion get attention but "blank slate" players like Hack, First, or Curious get very little attention is because mycerion is not Korean. It has nothing to do with the Korean's lack of interaction or public personality, because mycerion had none of that either. It's because they are Korean. The best way to put this was posted by Wax: That is what I just said. And then I expanded on why they usually fail to break that divide. | ||
Trowa127
United Kingdom1230 Posts
On August 14 2012 18:08 elKaDor wrote: Rofl u mad? ofc its boring to watch the end of TSL 4 now because its boring people that are left, And NO not because they are koreans, they hasnt shown any personality, plays of a book and nothing unorthodox comes out anytime. Yeah well some people care about the game. Crazy, crazy shocking concept. And if you hadn't heard of First before TSL then I can understand why you need 'foreigner emotion' to find a tournament interesting. I really hope none of the remaining players in the TSL are reading this thread. I wouldn't be very motivated. If you don't like it, don't watch - again, crazy, crazy shocking concept. But as this is TL everyone feels to need to bitch. | ||
Thrombozyt
Germany1269 Posts
On August 15 2012 02:24 stratmatt wrote: The audio on the vod for vortix/keen game 4 is WAAAAAAAY out of synch.....not sure about others Apparently it is also for all the other vids from the Monday games. Which is a shame because I missed them... | ||
Mellon
Sweden917 Posts
I love korea, the entire korean sc2 scene is extremely important and GSL is amazing, but when a foreigner is playing i will root for him. | ||
darthfoley
United States7999 Posts
On August 14 2012 12:49 Waxangel wrote: it's racism, but you don't have to be afraid of the word okay i'm racist for rooting for USA or Germany in the world cup then. makes sense. | ||
| ||