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On February 08 2013 08:14 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:13 blade55555 wrote:On February 08 2013 08:12 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: Hellbats shouldn't deal that much damage early game, blizzard should nerf them and re-add the blue flame upgrade so they can be good for late game. I think it's more the speed medivac that makes the hellbat drops so strong. Even though he pulled drones you'll notice the medivac just caught up to them and dropped the hellbats on top of that. I think either hellbats can't be put in a medivac in hellbat form or that speed upgrade needs a change. Or you build more anti-air than 1 spore... Without the medivac the hellbats just die and never catch up to drones.
10 spores around drone line can certainly do the job. ofc you have no drones left to be burned after they all turned into spores.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
give it a bit to get figured out
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On February 08 2013 08:15 Avicularia wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:13 blade55555 wrote:On February 08 2013 08:12 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: Hellbats shouldn't deal that much damage early game, blizzard should nerf them and re-add the blue flame upgrade so they can be good for late game. I think it's more the speed medivac that makes the hellbat drops so strong. Even though he pulled drones you'll notice the medivac just caught up to them and dropped the hellbats on top of that. I think either hellbats can't be put in a medivac in hellbat form or that speed upgrade needs a change. Yea, one easy change: only helions can be put inside the medivac, and it will fix this problem.
Blizzard doesnt want to do stuff like this and confuse players new to the game etc.
No way they will make it so you cant pickup a hellbat, but you can lift a thor....
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Every SC 2 game I watch makes me appreciate the scourge even more. I've never played zerg and never will, yet I want to thank who ever made the scourge. These games are a joke, watching dropships and shuttles just do w/e they want, all game, every game, 24/7. It's cringe worthy.
Can I please just get a unit that can snipe medivacs; I don't care if it's pre lair/hive or w/e. I just want to be able to watch games without face palming.
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Hellbats drop is a great tool to distinguish Zerg players with good micro from terrible ones. Soulkey looked like a BW Zerg noob discovering vulture mines.
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On February 08 2013 08:18 Dotq wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:15 Avicularia wrote:On February 08 2013 08:13 blade55555 wrote:On February 08 2013 08:12 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: Hellbats shouldn't deal that much damage early game, blizzard should nerf them and re-add the blue flame upgrade so they can be good for late game. I think it's more the speed medivac that makes the hellbat drops so strong. Even though he pulled drones you'll notice the medivac just caught up to them and dropped the hellbats on top of that. I think either hellbats can't be put in a medivac in hellbat form or that speed upgrade needs a change. Yea, one easy change: only helions can be put inside the medivac, and it will fix this problem. Blizzard doesnt want to do stuff like this and confuse players new to the game etc. No way they will make it so you cant pickup a hellbat, but you can lift a thor.... Haha, or make it so only 2 hellbats can be picked up instead of 4.
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United Arab Emirates439 Posts
On February 08 2013 08:16 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:14 TeeTS wrote: oh boy.... Hellbats will need to be nerfed as do reapers... and then we're back to WoL Terran. yay! Hellbats won't be super nerfed. They're badly needed against toss and Blizzard knows this which is why they made them strong Just remove the bio tag from the hellbat so they can't be healed and make it so they either take double space in hellbat form or can't be loaded as hellbat.
I don't think they need to remove the healing. It's the most minor of all the elements of the Hellbat drop - and it is really useful, especially in PvT. I think the not being able to load Hellbats is the only good solution. Otherwise you end up nerfing medivac speed to being a tech lab upgrade, and that just sucks. And still means the Hellbat drop is just as strong, so we would still see the same effect of people only dropping Hellbats because every other kind of drop is just worse.
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I didn't play HotS yet, but this looked very hard to defend tbh. A well microed reaper hits so early that zerg automatically loses 3-4 drones. Normally you need to 11-11 to get this done. and hellbat drops, I don't know, looks like too much dmg to too many units with too much HP for too low cost for me. Remember we're talking about a 100mineral unit with an insanely fast building speed. In comparison to that all other Terran units suck ass.
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On February 08 2013 08:15 Avicularia wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:13 blade55555 wrote:On February 08 2013 08:12 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: Hellbats shouldn't deal that much damage early game, blizzard should nerf them and re-add the blue flame upgrade so they can be good for late game. I think it's more the speed medivac that makes the hellbat drops so strong. Even though he pulled drones you'll notice the medivac just caught up to them and dropped the hellbats on top of that. I think either hellbats can't be put in a medivac in hellbat form or that speed upgrade needs a change. Yea, one easy change: only helions can be put inside the medivac, and it will fix this problem. or hellbat just takes twice more space ie only 2 per medievac.
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United Kingdom12011 Posts
On February 08 2013 08:18 playa wrote: Every SC 2 game I watch makes me appreciate the scourge even more. I've never played zerg and never will, yet I want to thank who ever made the scourge. These games are a joke, watching dropships and shuttles just do w/e they want, all game, every game, 24/7. It's cringe worthy.
Can I please just get a unit that can snipe medivacs; I don't care if it's pre lair/hive or w/e. I just want to be able to watch games without face palming.
You mean like a hydralisk, corrupter or mutalisk?
I'm replying with this due to your "all game/every game" comment. I'm pretty sure anti air deals with drops pretty effectively. This early in the game maybe you have a point, but I still put it down to zergs not knowing how to defend that early on with drops as they kind of stopped happening that early in WoL a very, very, very long time ago.
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On February 08 2013 08:22 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:18 playa wrote: Every SC 2 game I watch makes me appreciate the scourge even more. I've never played zerg and never will, yet I want to thank who ever made the scourge. These games are a joke, watching dropships and shuttles just do w/e they want, all game, every game, 24/7. It's cringe worthy.
Can I please just get a unit that can snipe medivacs; I don't care if it's pre lair/hive or w/e. I just want to be able to watch games without face palming. You mean like a hydralisk, corrupter or mutalisk?
All of those units, minus the corrupter, were in BW. No one was opening mutas or hydras to stop drops. Dropships didn't have a speed boost ability to make them the fastest thing in the game, either. Apparently corrupters aren't very good at using in the scourge role, be it price or w/e, so all I see is every game turning into a dropship/shuttle show. There's no risk to it. No real thinking required. Nothing. Just watch the show. It's amazing... Give me something. Make the harass actually require some thought. For instance, in BW, if you were a good player and you knew you were playing a good player, you would spend some of your vessel energy to D matrix your dropships. But, even then, that wasn't a sure bet.
Now... it's a freaking joke. Child's play.
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funny thing people were complaining that zerg got all the best stuff in hots and we didnt see any. Yet terran got some huge buffs.
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On February 08 2013 08:30 Cheerio wrote: funny thing people were complaining that zerg got all the best stuff in hots and we didnt see any. Yet terran got some huge buffs.
Terrans and protoss got more early game options, meanwhile zergs received burrow and soon ovie speed \o/ go figure
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On February 08 2013 08:27 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:22 Qikz wrote:On February 08 2013 08:18 playa wrote: Every SC 2 game I watch makes me appreciate the scourge even more. I've never played zerg and never will, yet I want to thank who ever made the scourge. These games are a joke, watching dropships and shuttles just do w/e they want, all game, every game, 24/7. It's cringe worthy.
Can I please just get a unit that can snipe medivacs; I don't care if it's pre lair/hive or w/e. I just want to be able to watch games without face palming. You mean like a hydralisk, corrupter or mutalisk? All of those units, minus the corrupter, were in BW. No one was opening mutas or hydras to stop drops. Dropships didn't have a speed boost ability to make them the fastest thing in the game, either. Apparently corrupters aren't very good at using in the scourge role, be it price or w/e, so all I see is every game turning into a dropship/shuttle show. There's no risk to it. No real thinking required. Nothing. Just watch the show. It's amazing... Give me something. Make the harass actually require some thought. For instance, in BW, if you were a good player and you knew you were playing a good player, you would spend some of your vessel energy to D matrix your dropships. But, even then, that wasn't a sure bet. Now... it's a freaking joke. Child's play.
I cannot understand how people complain about this. We are talking about tier 3 harassment (actually, tier 3 on both the starport and armory tech paths) that occurs after the 10 minute mark. It's not implausible to build defences.
Furthermore, drop play is great. Some of the best games in SC2 have involved drop play. Recall MMA v DRG. That series was brilliant because of MMAs drop play. What about Innovation v Taeja this morning? It was Innovations aggressive stances, also utilizing dropships, that led the casting archon to say "The best game of TvT I have ever casted". Now you want less drop play (to the extent that people suggest hellbats shouldn't fit in medivacs). What's the alternative, we have each side compose a deathball and have at it?
We had six months of PvZ, I say enough is enough.
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On February 08 2013 08:13 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:12 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: Hellbats shouldn't deal that much damage early game, blizzard should nerf them and re-add the blue flame upgrade so they can be good for late game. I think it's more the speed medivac that makes the hellbat drops so strong. Even though he pulled drones you'll notice the medivac just caught up to them and dropped the hellbats on top of that. I think either hellbats can't be put in a medivac in hellbat form or that speed upgrade needs a change. It's both! I would also add I think medivac should only be able to hold 2 hellbats or 4 hellions.. that might would help some..
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On February 08 2013 08:33 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:30 Cheerio wrote: funny thing people were complaining that zerg got all the best stuff in hots and we didnt see any. Yet terran got some huge buffs. Terrans and protoss got more early game options, meanwhile zergs received burrow and soon ovie speed \o/ go figure
Overlord speed will solve everything. If Soulkey had spent 100/100 and got fast Overlords, he could have just gged without wasting everyone's time when he saw the Hellbats being built.
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On February 08 2013 08:36 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:27 playa wrote:On February 08 2013 08:22 Qikz wrote:On February 08 2013 08:18 playa wrote: Every SC 2 game I watch makes me appreciate the scourge even more. I've never played zerg and never will, yet I want to thank who ever made the scourge. These games are a joke, watching dropships and shuttles just do w/e they want, all game, every game, 24/7. It's cringe worthy.
Can I please just get a unit that can snipe medivacs; I don't care if it's pre lair/hive or w/e. I just want to be able to watch games without face palming. You mean like a hydralisk, corrupter or mutalisk? All of those units, minus the corrupter, were in BW. No one was opening mutas or hydras to stop drops. Dropships didn't have a speed boost ability to make them the fastest thing in the game, either. Apparently corrupters aren't very good at using in the scourge role, be it price or w/e, so all I see is every game turning into a dropship/shuttle show. There's no risk to it. No real thinking required. Nothing. Just watch the show. It's amazing... Give me something. Make the harass actually require some thought. For instance, in BW, if you were a good player and you knew you were playing a good player, you would spend some of your vessel energy to D matrix your dropships. But, even then, that wasn't a sure bet. Now... it's a freaking joke. Child's play. I cannot understand how people complain about this. We are talking about tier 3 harassment (actually, tier 3 on both the starport and armory tech paths) that occurs after the 10 minute mark. It's not implausible to build defences. Furthermore, drop play is great. Some of the best games in SC2 have involved drop play. Recall MMA v DRG. That series was brilliant because of MMAs drop play. What about Innovation v Taeja this morning? It was Innovations aggressive stances, also utilizing dropships, that led the casting archon to say "The best game of TvT I have ever casted". Now you want less drop play (to the extent that people suggest hellbats shouldn't fit in medivacs). What's the alternative, we have each side compose a deathball and have at it? We had six months of PvZ, I say enough is enough.
I like SC 2, but the biggest negative for me by far, is simply the difference in drop play between the games. Some of the most exciting moments in BW was the interplay between scourges and dropships/shuttles. There's just not much thought or risk anymore. I don't play zerg, and when I have a shuttle flying around without a care in the world, just knowing I'm going to take down the greater spire unless they have a million spines around it, I think it's silly.
Is it too much to ask for me to face contested drops every now and then? Would that be such a horrible thing? I'm still trying to figure out why the shuttle needs a speed upgrade if nothing is going to stop it, unless they opened mutas.
If you can watch BW and SC 2 yet think SC 2 has done a better job of creating excitement and strategy through drops, then kudos to you. I wish I could. Maybe I can try watching SC 2 with a blindfold on, and just listen to the excitement coming from people like you.
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watching Rules of Engagement. So axslav is telling that the only way to effectively handle the hellbat drop is to prevent them being dropped in the mineral because after that the drop is already successful. There are some really weird ways of doing that as a terran but zerg is pretty much screwed because well... no good AA.
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United Kingdom12011 Posts
On February 08 2013 08:59 Cheerio wrote: watching Rules of Engagement. So axslav is telling that the only way to effectively handle the hellbat drop is to prevent them being dropped in the mineral because after that the drop is already successful. There are some really weird ways of doing that as a terran but zerg is pretty much screwed because well... no good AA.
You have spores and queens which together are arguably the best anti air that early in the game. There's literally no reason why you can't defend the hellbat drops.
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On February 08 2013 08:59 Cheerio wrote: watching Rules of Engagement. So axslav is telling that the only way to effectively handle the hellbat drop is to prevent them being dropped in the mineral because after that the drop is already successful. There are some really weird ways of doing that as a terran but zerg is pretty much screwed because well... no good AA.
You just need to tech to fast Infestors and Neural Parasite a Widow Mine.
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