|
Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On March 15 2013 05:12 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 04:38 tisalgado wrote:On March 15 2013 04:03 ff7legend wrote: How do you deal with 4gate blink. I am constantly scouting their gas and even their gates, but unless i see the twilight i still have no clue what they could be doing. It could be 4 gate with alot sentries, proxy voidrays, dts, etc. And if for some reason i do scout their twilight, where do i put bunkers and such so that i can actually defend the attack. the answer is in the original OP: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=251694+ Show Spoiler +Q. If I 1 rax FE into 3 rax, how to hold Blink Stalkers all-ins? - Hide Spoiler [Answer] -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TheDwf wrote: Against Blink Stalkers all-ins I never have troubles when scouting it early. Signs are: - 2 gas; - 3 Pylons in his base (and thus no proxy) with one of them being able to fuel a building in the back of his base (outside of common scan areas); - A favorable map (e. g. Daybreak and Entombed Valley are impractical due to the map layout); - No Zealot, no Sentries (some builds can get a Zealot, but no Sentry is sure); - One or two Stalkers camping in front of his natural to dispose of your scouting SCV; - No scout or 9 scout from him are also a possible sign (he doesn't scout because he doesn't care since he wants to blindly all-in, or he wants to make sure you go 1 rax FE).
With my first 50 gas I make 2 Tech Labs, then I continuously make Marauders and search Concussive (first) and Stim (second). When Protoss makes his first Blink in my base (7'15 - 7'30) I have enough to fend him off without pulling any SCV, then I defend while teching to Medivacs. Be sure you never get supply blocked and pay attention to the location of your Tech Lab searching Stim, you don't want it to be cancelled. Common follow-ups when Protoss fails are: Protoss tries harder; Dark shrine; expand, so be wary about this. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- note that because of the msc, the push comes even faster
does it really? blink has been nerfed by 30 seconds... the observer you used on WOL took 30 seconds to build... protoss do spend 125 less minerals and 75 less gas (because they don't need the robo or the obs), but I believe the timing the attack comes is about the same... (maybe with 1 or 2 extra stalkers, but not earlier)
|
TvP .. Help ! getting owned atm.. What are people doing atm. I sued to do a 2 Rax pressure but now thats not good
|
Okay, I wanna mech as Terran against Zerg, and I plan to expand safely, get to three bases, and then push with 2/2 upgrades with a force consisting of Hellbats, Siege Tanks, and Widow Mines (possibly vikings as well for the Colossus)
What should be a basic opening to try out this push? How many factories can I support on one base? What should I be watching out for?
|
On March 15 2013 05:35 OwnDizzzld wrote:TvP .. Help ! getting owned atm.. What are people doing atm. I sued to do a 2 Rax pressure but now thats not good
Play more aggressive.
Personally I open 1/1/1 and end most of the games within 10 minutes with me winning as most protoss are playing gimmicky at the moment and contrarily to what has been said that 1/1/1 doesn't work against toss due to the new planetary nexus ability it still works if you get your siege tanks in position, let it die out, and target fire the mothership core it w/e it's called.
Not to mention if you open Raven if they clump up zealots you can get 1-2 seeker missiles off which help tremendously otherwise I use PDD.
Also, if they play safe against your 1/1/1 just expand and aim for a go for a marine/tank stim/cs timing as those are strong as well.
|
On March 15 2013 06:28 Bleak wrote: Okay, I wanna mech as Terran against Zerg, and I plan to expand safely, get to three bases, and then push with 2/2 upgrades with a force consisting of Hellbats, Siege Tanks, and Widow Mines (possibly vikings as well for the Colossus)
What should be a basic opening to try out this push? How many factories can I support on one base? What should I be watching out for?
So... you want to mech against zerg or toss?
2 on one base(reactor, lab), 5 on two base (reactor, lab, lab)
|
On March 15 2013 07:45 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 05:35 OwnDizzzld wrote:TvP .. Help ! getting owned atm.. What are people doing atm. I sued to do a 2 Rax pressure but now thats not good Play more aggressive. Personally I open 1/1/1 and end most of the games within 10 minutes with me winning as most protoss are playing gimmicky at the moment and contrarily to what has been said that 1/1/1 doesn't work against toss due to the new planetary nexus ability it still works if you get your siege tanks in position, let it die out, and target fire the mothership core it w/e it's called. Not to mention if you open Raven if they clump up zealots you can get 1-2 seeker missiles off which help tremendously otherwise I use PDD. Also, if they play safe against your 1/1/1 just expand and aim for a go for a marine/tank stim/cs timing as those are strong as well. What exactly are you targeting the mothership core with? Also, it's not the fact that planetary nexus can straight up kill a 1/1/1 that makes that build unviable, it's that the planetary nexus severely delays your push, as you have to 'wait for it to die out'.
|
On March 15 2013 07:50 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 07:45 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On March 15 2013 05:35 OwnDizzzld wrote:TvP .. Help ! getting owned atm.. What are people doing atm. I sued to do a 2 Rax pressure but now thats not good Play more aggressive. Personally I open 1/1/1 and end most of the games within 10 minutes with me winning as most protoss are playing gimmicky at the moment and contrarily to what has been said that 1/1/1 doesn't work against toss due to the new planetary nexus ability it still works if you get your siege tanks in position, let it die out, and target fire the mothership core it w/e it's called. Not to mention if you open Raven if they clump up zealots you can get 1-2 seeker missiles off which help tremendously otherwise I use PDD. Also, if they play safe against your 1/1/1 just expand and aim for a go for a marine/tank stim/cs timing as those are strong as well. What exactly are you targeting the mothership core with? Also, it's not the fact that planetary nexus can straight up kill a 1/1/1 that makes that build unviable, it's that the planetary nexus severely delays your push, as you have to 'wait for it to die out'. Actually planetary nexus does not flat out kill 1/1/1, it only does 20 damage per shot if I'm not mistaken.
I target the mothership core with vikings.
I get a fast Raven which keeps me safe against cheese and allows potential mineral line harass right away instead of going for a banshee and I follow it up with vikings while constantly making marines and tanks.
I scout out their front with an scv to see unit comp. and if they FE'd or tried anything gimmicky I pull all scvs and if they don't have a mothership core its an auto win pretty much as long as my micro is on point if they do have a mothership core I use my vikings to give me sight up the ramp and any units that come down the choke point are going to get killed with 4-5 siege tanks blasting them.....
I try to snipe the mothership core with vikings though if I can right away, if the play aggressive with the mothership core it's even better as I can snipe it faster and end the game even sooner. If I don't snipe it eventually their energy will run out and I can push up the ramp a long with my reinforced units.
Honestly my strengths lay in my micro and heavy aggression some might call it gimmicky but all styles are viable and the way I see it is if you lose you don't lose because your opponent played better you lost because you didn't play well enough as I believe that SC2 and all 1v1 games are a battle against yourself.....
But regarding the TvP matchup I'd rather play very aggressive vs trying to go up against a late game protoss army which is very difficult to beat even if you're ahead or allowing the Protoss player to play aggressive early on potentially ending the game early on or doing heavy damage when I have the option to do the same thing and have an even stronger standing army early to mid game.
|
I try to figured out what is the best mech composition against a zerg? is it either Thor+Hellion/Hellbat or Tank+WidowMine?
of course you have to add vikings later with both composition
Should i do traps with widow mines? or just in one control group and burrow them just before the fight happens?
this game is so exciting :D
|
United Kingdom12011 Posts
Before In the thread I said I liked reactor mine openings in TvT, well today I found out the hard way that reactor mines die to anything with a raven one base push wise and I've decided to scrap the idea completely and just open up with tanks (as mech).
Reactor mines is really solid against the majority of builds, but anything one base can pretty much just come and kill you, if anyone else has had some success with reactor mine openings into mech against one base pushes I'd love to see them though, I did enjoy the mine laying.
@saaa (hello from the mech channel! :D)
I've personally found in TvZ that Tank/Hellbat with mine support is good, you obviously want to add ravens as you get past 3 bases with vikings if he's going heavy into air tech. Mix in some thors incase he does air switches, but you mainly want tanks/hellbats with some mines covering your flanks and turrets infront of your tanks to discourage cloud.
Make sure to not overmake mines and if he goes mass ultra, unsiege your tanks. If he goes broodlords, deal with the broodlords using your few thors and viking/raven while sending your tanks unsieged around the map killing his far away bases (send hellbats too). Try not to be too agressive if he's going for a lot of lair tech or hydra/roach/viper and just worry about slowly pushing either forwards or in a path where you can expand/deny his expansions. You never want to be too quick around the map or you'll die to counter attacks or being caught unsieged. You'll want to be constantly doing blue flame hellion hurass too since it's powerful.
Basically the way I've found TvZ is if he switches into anything mass hive, so broodlord/corrupter or ultra, then you never really want to be sieged (as you just end up hurting your self or straight up dying to ultras).
|
Does anyone have idea how to deal effectively with roach/hydra/viper using mmm? Rines die too quickly to do something and I barely can touch hydras if he engages. Zerg also easily deals with drops once he has static defense near mineral lines and speed hydras. I was thinking about adding mines to my composition for map control / retreating my army. Do mmm is viable or should I go for something else?
|
quick cuestion: is it better to target fire with a+click or just right click?
|
I have a question regarding general TvT play. I do 1v1s and 2v2s but mainly the 2v2 games. It seems like anytime my opponent has tanks I'm forced into tank play also, is there a way around this? I've never been a fan of siege tanks and I used to use banshees to counter tanks but one thor ruins that play.
|
On March 15 2013 11:27 HeyJude wrote: I have a question regarding general TvT play. I do 1v1s and 2v2s but mainly the 2v2 games. It seems like anytime my opponent has tanks I'm forced into tank play also, is there a way around this? I've never been a fan of siege tanks and I used to use banshees to counter tanks but one thor ruins that play.
Marine/Marauder/Drop Ships and abuse your mobility by dropping all over and doing multi pronged attacks.
|
On March 15 2013 11:42 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 11:27 HeyJude wrote: I have a question regarding general TvT play. I do 1v1s and 2v2s but mainly the 2v2 games. It seems like anytime my opponent has tanks I'm forced into tank play also, is there a way around this? I've never been a fan of siege tanks and I used to use banshees to counter tanks but one thor ruins that play. Marine/Marauder/Drop Ships and abuse your mobility by dropping all over and doing multi pronged attacks. Yeah I usually do that in 1v1 but in 2v2 people tend to do 1 or 2 base all-ins so it's hard to find places to drop effectively.
What do you do if he sets up outside your main/expo with tanks?
|
On March 15 2013 11:55 HeyJude wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 11:42 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On March 15 2013 11:27 HeyJude wrote: I have a question regarding general TvT play. I do 1v1s and 2v2s but mainly the 2v2 games. It seems like anytime my opponent has tanks I'm forced into tank play also, is there a way around this? I've never been a fan of siege tanks and I used to use banshees to counter tanks but one thor ruins that play. Marine/Marauder/Drop Ships and abuse your mobility by dropping all over and doing multi pronged attacks. Yeah I usually do that in 1v1 but in 2v2 people tend to do 1 or 2 base all-ins so it's hard to find places to drop effectively. What do you do if he sets up outside your main/expo with tanks?
Now that tanks don;t require siege tech and Ravens seeker cost a lot less energy and is more useful I'm finding 1/1/1 to be the best opener TvT right now.
Back in WoL it was recommended to have two drop ships out asap, put your marines behind the siege hold, pull scvs towards army from the front while hitting the back with your marines and medivacs.
BUT now that 1/1/1 is way stronger I honestly don't know as with a raven any early mines are taken out easily and if you can go a 2 pronged attack 1 seeker missile or autpo turrets make the army that much stronger not to mention 1/1/1 with 3 tanks hits much earlier now than it used to.
If you want easy wins tvt I suggest going 11 gas, 12 rax, factory after OC, Starport, TL on Factory, fast banshee, followed up by tank/raven/viking/marine production and pushing out with 3 tanks after doign damage with your banshee.
It will build your multi tasking ability AND since every terran is openeing with 1-2 reapers you are almost always going to damage with your fast banshee and you can either end the game out right with the 1/1/1 or contain them and expand.
|
On March 14 2013 02:49 Aveng3r wrote: In tvt, is a gasless 1 rax FE safe against a 1 rax reaper opening? what about a reaper opening from more than 1 barracks? Yeah I can say that defending that reaper opening with a 1 rax FE is incredibly difficult and frustrating, I don't recommend it. I learned that the hard way today.
|
On March 15 2013 07:47 Striker.superfreunde wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 06:28 Bleak wrote: Okay, I wanna mech as Terran against Zerg, and I plan to expand safely, get to three bases, and then push with 2/2 upgrades with a force consisting of Hellbats, Siege Tanks, and Widow Mines (possibly vikings as well for the Colossus)
What should be a basic opening to try out this push? How many factories can I support on one base? What should I be watching out for? So... you want to mech against zerg or toss? 2 on one base(reactor, lab), 5 on two base (reactor, lab, lab)
Hopefully both. And possibly in TvT too. I'm tired of bio, played it enough imo in WoL.
|
question: how does one dodge storms?
I mean the colossus + HT late game army... when there are only zealot archon HT, I can go for cost efficient trades with MMM the same way I'd deal with ling bane... (not great, but I understand what to do)
but when engaging a complete protoss army, I have no Idea what to do... whenever I start to get close, colossi start dishing pain.... if I engage he storms... I can then see these 2 options: retreat or move forward to try to avoid the storm while still fighting...
if I retreat, I just lost units for nothing on the colossi (when aproaching and when retreating) and lost a position. if I try to keep engaging, I get another storm and chopped apart by the zealots...
really, I have no clue on how to deal with lategame protoss army... I tried adding in some hellbats to deal with the zealots, but that made it even worse because they are not fast enough to run from the storms and colossi when I decide to retreat...
is there a proper way to engage I'm missing?
|
Just want to say, why are there two threads of Terran help me threads? This is confusing lol which one should I ask in? :S
|
On March 15 2013 22:22 tisalgado wrote: question: how does one dodge storms?
I mean the colossus + HT late game army... when there are only zealot archon HT, I can go for cost efficient trades with MMM the same way I'd deal with ling bane... (not great, but I understand what to do)
but when engaging a complete protoss army, I have no Idea what to do... whenever I start to get close, colossi start dishing pain.... if I engage he storms... I can then see these 2 options: retreat or move forward to try to avoid the storm while still fighting...
if I retreat, I just lost units for nothing on the colossi (when aproaching and when retreating) and lost a position. if I try to keep engaging, I get another storm and chopped apart by the zealots...
really, I have no clue on how to deal with lategame protoss army... I tried adding in some hellbats to deal with the zealots, but that made it even worse because they are not fast enough to run from the storms and colossi when I decide to retreat...
is there a proper way to engage I'm missing?
Are you not making Ghosts to deal with the Templar? Generally if you're at the super late game and the Toss has a mixture of a Colossus force and a Templar force you really need Ghosts with Cloak, scan away the observer and go in and try to snipe/EMP the HT before the engagement. Trying to engage that type of army composition with MMM is never going to work regardless of how well you micro the battle.
|
|
|
|