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On August 09 2013 18:34 Strelok wrote: 4. Why person can't race pick against every race, because it doesn't like, for example, mirrors? You can still race pick in SC2 like you did in BW. You join a custom game lobby (as you did in BW), pick your race (as you did in BW), and play the match (as you did in BW).
The reason that it's not very useful to do that in the matchmaking feature that's unique to SC2 is because both players would have these racial settings and they wouldn't always agree.
Bnet: Player 1 would like to play Protoss Bnet: Player 2 prefers to play Terran against Protoss Bnet: Player 1 prefers to play Zerg against Terran Bnet: Player 2 prefers to play Terran against Zerg Bnet: Player 1 prefers to play Protoss against Terran
And so on. The way to break out of that loop would be to choose the default choices for both players, which is what already happens.
You could also just not match disagreeing players with one another, but that'd hurt the matchmaking times.
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I can log in once a month and play a 1-2 hour long League of Legends game. If I only log in once a month to ladder in sc2, the games would be much shorter and much less fun.
Unless you play sc2 regularly with a focus on pure mechanics, you just can't ladder like you can with a MOBA game. Now I'm not a big fan of MOBA games, I remember the first time I played Defense of the Ancients in WC3 and being bore that it wasn't Aeon of Strife. But I can still log in to a LoL game and play for an hour running around the map, pokin at minions, and dying in team fights. I'll still lose, but even while losing I can run around and play the game. This is not the same as SC2 and even less so with BW.
People keep referencing how the Starcraft scene would be better if it was more like BW, forgetting that the BW foreign scene was EVEN FURTHER BEHIND than the sc2 foreign is. If sc2 was more like BW it wouldn't even be compared to LoL or Dota2 but be instead considered some niche nostalgia game that only a small market base affects. The only reason SC2 is this popular is *because* of its easy interface.
Sc2 isn't behind because it isn't F2play and it isn't behind because its not like BW; it's behind because less people are able to just pick and ladder with it the way they can just pick up and ladder a MOBA game.
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It was those moments of nostalgia of remembering early brood war days. Where everybody played Broodwar from all over the world in PC cafes, college dorms, or private bedrooms. There were no online restrictions to location and battle.net did not hinder the online experience of SC. As well, battles from people around the world, due to its great gameplay, was a site and incredible experience. Starcraft music was well designed which added to the experience, the music was under-rated for sure. The game SC was also cheaper and easier to pick up and play than SCII.
Things have gone down hill and competition is stepping up. So many possible options to improve SC like team play, fremium models, ability to add dynamics to gameplay or make the game balanced with each race, larger prize money for the major tournaments has not been employed by Blizzard. The lack of true evolution in gameplay and options is hindering the game of Starcraft.
Starcraft should not be struggling like what we are witnessing now. The game SC possess inbuilt, ingrained advantages over LoL and Dota because the concept of SC is beautiful and simple to understand. Claim your territory, build your economy and kick the other competitor out of the domain or planet. The concept of Starcraft is relatable to the real world and of course is very relateable to our past and future. Other computer games don't have that beautiful political bent that SC conveys to the gamer. And watching a terran dominion vs an Insectoid race vs an advanced alien race draws great interest from all sort of science fiction fans and average people too. Humanity could one day, in a billion years, possibly accept the invasion of an advanced alien race trying to conquer the terran planet and vice versa with Terrans invading alien planets. Gamers can even stretch out their imagination further to the concept of some hideous larva like race that desires to infect the whole galaxy, with Kerrigan at their helm.
That wild thought provoking imagination drawn from the concept of Starcraft, which captured the hearts of people all over earth, can not be transferred to pure fantasy war games like LoL or Dota. The concept or premise of Dota and LoL do not translate to our world in Earth. The characters do not play a political angle to the conflict. The characters are purely fantastical and drawn from the ethereal minds of men. If a comparison of SC and LoL boiled down to the ability to capture imagination of the people, SC would win every time. SC2 is relatable to our world, and LoL is not. It's a timeless story, SC has designed. Us, Players just want to enjoy the epic that SC was meant to play out and become and evolve to.
It would be truly ashame if SC doesn't ascend back to the throne of epic board/RTS games of all time, it's rightful place. Even noobs like me loved BW, watching astonishing strategy with sizzling action. And I don't find the same enthusiam for LoL or dota. Those games do not relate to me except for the team concept. But where Blizzard has faultered, other companies have picked up the pieces that BLizzard left behind and are now succeeding at the expense of Starcraft. Hope Blizzard turns things around, and soon.
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On August 11 2013 16:40 Thieving Magpie wrote: I can log in once a month and play a 1-2 hour long League of Legends game. If I only log in once a month to ladder in sc2, the games would be much shorter and much less fun.
Unless you play sc2 regularly with a focus on pure mechanics, you just can't ladder like you can with a MOBA game. Now I'm not a big fan of MOBA games, I remember the first time I played Defense of the Ancients in WC3 and being bore that it wasn't Aeon of Strife. But I can still log in to a LoL game and play for an hour running around the map, pokin at minions, and dying in team fights. I'll still lose, but even while losing I can run around and play the game. This is not the same as SC2 and even less so with BW.
People keep referencing how the Starcraft scene would be better if it was more like BW, forgetting that the BW foreign scene was EVEN FURTHER BEHIND than the sc2 foreign is. If sc2 was more like BW it wouldn't even be compared to LoL or Dota2 but be instead considered some niche nostalgia game that only a small market base affects. The only reason SC2 is this popular is *because* of its easy interface.
Sc2 isn't behind because it isn't F2play and it isn't behind because its not like BW; it's behind because less people are able to just pick and ladder with it the way they can just pick up and ladder a MOBA game. I agree and disagree man. I play sc2 A LOT and play LOL once in a while. I played LOL for 2 weeks straight with some friends while on vacation and learned some of the ins and outs. But when I login to play with them it's usually not very fun unless I'm stoned because I won't get many kills and I generally won't know who counters who/what's going on.
So, for competitive minded people both games are bad if you don't put in the time. With LOL you can just blame the losses on your team and respawn anyway. With sc2, one mistake could mean the end of a 30 minute game in seconds.
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On August 11 2013 05:52 RaiZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 23:26 Foxxan wrote:On August 10 2013 22:41 RaiZ wrote:On August 10 2013 21:45 Foxxan wrote:On August 10 2013 19:21 Stoffelhase wrote: 1. splitting and flanking with zealots is not only possible but sometimes essential in max vs max fights. Stalker micro is key for holding any proxy, how can you say there is no micro at all involved?? Also in lategame, there is always improvement to perfect blinkplay. 2. All i said is that it does not NULLIFY all the defenders advantage. I gave you lots of points why, but you just chose to call me silly in some way. 3. I dont get what you want. Protoss can have 20-30 gates too if it goes to extremes. But why is that bad? Also there is a difference in my zerg macro abilities, the mediocre grandmaster player and world best zergs. Why? Because the simply have better macro and do better "clicking on the mouse". 1. No u are wrong, zealots in max vs max fights cant really do anything. Everything in starcraft can flank, and split How should i explain it In a big battle, the zealots cant position themself cuz of so high damageout put from range units, there is no time for you react and their slow passive movement speed hinders this to. Charge in this case is so pure piss bad in a rts game like this They go on autopilot EXCEPTIONS OFCOURSE and DEGREE SCALE stalkers is the same way, how can they micro in big fights? Compare to bio of terran. Terran has huge power of his micro And compare to broodwar, have you played that game? Zealots with higher movement speed(No charge) and less damageoutput overall they could position themself in big fights, in small fights there was more micro also Everything could micro there 3. It is bad because the macroskill removes it, and gameplay stalls They are all broken in their own way, iam all for difference things but not when it comes to things like mules in lategame(Sacrafice scvs for bigger armee) Larva inject, can remax in an instant Protoss warpgate(can have instant reinforcement These are cool and all but they ruin gameplay alot in the long run Have you played broodwar? I'm not sure you really played sc2. Seems like to me you're just another die hard bw fan and couldn't fully transition to sc2, because otherwise you'd have known that microing zealots is far easier than in bw. It's just that I think most protons players are so fucking lazy and they don't want to put at least 3 hotkeys for units alone... What did u not understand? not about easy or hard to micro the zealots its that you cant I compare to broodwar to get you a picture, nothing else Stop this shittalk u have "have u even played starcraft" "u seem to be another die hard bw fan" Its pathetic of you to write that Have you ever played bw at a very competitive level? I'm talking back when there was still like 1000 Koreans on the top 1000 of iccup ? Probably not. Sc2 at a competitive level ? Maybe. But you say I dont know what I'm talking about ? Because let me tell you that you cant micro the mass zealot either when you're in a big fight except maybe some zealots bombs but then you can do that too with sc2. Thing is it simply doesn't work the same way. It's just silly to compare these 2 games. And that's what you did. Edit : Sorry for being harsh, but listen, sick of ppl comparing bw and sc2 when it's not really the same game tbh...I'm a little If you want a perfect example of your comparaison then i can talk about the stalkers and the dragoons if you want : how many of right clicks do you need in order to put, say, 12 dragoons up in a small ramp without them fucking their path up ? Probably ten times more than moving the stalkers... And I didn't even mention about blink. That's what you're trying to compare : The zealots of bw that don't have charge compared to sc2. They just don't work the same way. So yeah, I'm sorry, but if you want to compare this game with bw, then try to talk about the interface or the possibility of being played in lans. There I'd agree with you @ 100%
Have you ever played bw at a very competitive level?
Why is this relevant to you?
But you say I dont know what I'm talking about ?
Because let me tell you that you cant micro the mass zealot either when you're in a big fight except maybe some zealots bombs but then you can do that too with sc2
Ok, now u start to be really annoying, you talk crap now
Compared to sc2, small fights = you can micro the zealot in bw alot more bigger fights = you can still do micro in bw
Against terran which goes mech You wanna drag the spider mines with a few zealots away from your pack
You also wanna send a few zealots to siegetank A, B, C Shuttledrop with zealotbombs
No micro? ......are u sure u know what ua re talking about?
Against zerg, he goes hydras u go speed zealots, no micro? What about u amove the zealots and when they come close you how should i say this: position your zealots so they become concave sort of, you also can attack and then move afterwards , so against zerg you can do alot of positioning in fights with them
You also can have them on hold position to block incoming units, you can do this to in sc2 but realitivly only with simcity and on choke(tbh on the choke how often do we see that in sc2)
In bw, holding position occurs more often, in a more releveant way and also out on the map
BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!!!!! This is just one unit, everything in this game can do micro and not just kite but position is important (its important in sc2 to) but with position in a battle, engagement u can reposiiton your units so eventually you get a better position
People compare sc2 to bw, because sc2 is missing key parts of what an rts is about, its not that we want bw remake (tbh with path fixing, bug fixes, maybe a few additions, it would be godlike compared to sc2), we just want all the best ingredients which blizard has removed
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On August 11 2013 19:02 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2013 16:40 Thieving Magpie wrote: I can log in once a month and play a 1-2 hour long League of Legends game. If I only log in once a month to ladder in sc2, the games would be much shorter and much less fun.
Unless you play sc2 regularly with a focus on pure mechanics, you just can't ladder like you can with a MOBA game. Now I'm not a big fan of MOBA games, I remember the first time I played Defense of the Ancients in WC3 and being bore that it wasn't Aeon of Strife. But I can still log in to a LoL game and play for an hour running around the map, pokin at minions, and dying in team fights. I'll still lose, but even while losing I can run around and play the game. This is not the same as SC2 and even less so with BW.
People keep referencing how the Starcraft scene would be better if it was more like BW, forgetting that the BW foreign scene was EVEN FURTHER BEHIND than the sc2 foreign is. If sc2 was more like BW it wouldn't even be compared to LoL or Dota2 but be instead considered some niche nostalgia game that only a small market base affects. The only reason SC2 is this popular is *because* of its easy interface.
Sc2 isn't behind because it isn't F2play and it isn't behind because its not like BW; it's behind because less people are able to just pick and ladder with it the way they can just pick up and ladder a MOBA game. I agree and disagree man. I play sc2 A LOT and play LOL once in a while. I played LOL for 2 weeks straight with some friends while on vacation and learned some of the ins and outs. But when I login to play with them it's usually not very fun unless I'm stoned because I won't get many kills and I generally won't know who counters who/what's going on. So, for competitive minded people both games are bad if you don't put in the time. With LOL you can just blame the losses on your team and respawn anyway. With sc2, one mistake could mean the end of a 30 minute game in seconds.
I wasn't talking about "competitive minded people."
I was talking about the physical act of logging in and clicking on the screen. I can, at the very least, smack minions who mindlessly charge at me. I can, run around and throw heal/sheild spells at the carry and then run away when under attack. It might not lead to wins, but I can play a video game for an hour and if we lose I can just blame the other 4 players for doing exactly what I was doing.
If you have a competitive mindset and that feeling and drive to want to be good at something, then of course SC2 is okay. But if you're playing with a competitive mindset then you're no longer the casual player who just wants to log on 1-2 times a month when he feels like squeezing you into his Dragon Age/WoW/Animal Crossing/Fallout/Last of Us/etc.... routines. Casual gamers who simply enjoy playing a video game here and there. ie--the vast majority of people who play video games.
Its no surprise that there are more people playing LoL than SC2 if you have casuals in mind. I'm almost certain that if you simply concentrated the player base of both games into the "Serious competitive players" that there would be about as many on both sides. But add in casuals and a game like League or DOTA can at least allows players to just run around and play a video game for an hour; SC2 can't offer that, and BW offers even less.
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On August 11 2013 19:23 Foxxan wrote:People compare sc2 to bw, because sc2 is missing key parts of what an rts is about, its not that we want bw remake (tbh with path fixing, bug fixes, maybe a few additions, it would be godlike compared to sc2), we just want all the best ingredients which blizard has removed
BW was relatively non-existent as a competitive sport outside of Korea. The changes to SC2 has made Starcraft international by making it more accessible. LoL and Dota made themselves EVEN MORE accessible and hence are also much much bigger.
I hope you see where I'm going with this.
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On August 12 2013 00:25 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2013 19:23 Foxxan wrote:People compare sc2 to bw, because sc2 is missing key parts of what an rts is about, its not that we want bw remake (tbh with path fixing, bug fixes, maybe a few additions, it would be godlike compared to sc2), we just want all the best ingredients which blizard has removed BW was relatively non-existent as a competitive sport outside of Korea. The changes to SC2 has made Starcraft international by making it more accessible. LoL and Dota made themselves EVEN MORE accessible and hence are also much much bigger. I hope you see where I'm going with this. Divekick will be the most popular Esport ever?
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I'm not sure why sc2 is lagging behind Dota in terms of popularity. Possibly there was nothing blizz could have done about that. But my continual gripe with sc2 is that the battles finish way too quickly. Compared to BW AND to Warcraft 3. It doesn't matter that sc2 is a different game, but when battles are conducted in narrow chokes all the time, with moves that stifle micro and after big burst damage everything is killed in 1.2 seconds... it's not a good game design man. We want battles where the outcome is not certain 1 second into the battle ... and in which you can actually follow the action that is taking place. In SC2, 80% of the time you know who is gonna win the battle dominatingly before it even begins. And that other 20% it's really hard to follow the action that is taking place in the battle.
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On August 12 2013 00:41 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 00:25 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 11 2013 19:23 Foxxan wrote:People compare sc2 to bw, because sc2 is missing key parts of what an rts is about, its not that we want bw remake (tbh with path fixing, bug fixes, maybe a few additions, it would be godlike compared to sc2), we just want all the best ingredients which blizard has removed BW was relatively non-existent as a competitive sport outside of Korea. The changes to SC2 has made Starcraft international by making it more accessible. LoL and Dota made themselves EVEN MORE accessible and hence are also much much bigger. I hope you see where I'm going with this. Divekick will be the most popular Esport ever?
It had very big numbers in Evo for having no real scene and no real big names. Anything is possible.
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Have you ever played bw at a very competitive level?
rofl foxxan the old gosu is beating the shit out of you noob.
Death balls and the 2 second fights are one of various problems of sc2. Atleast its boring to watch.
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Can't you ask these questions to Blizzard on Blizzcon?
Maybe not at the panels but isn't Blizzard giving away interviews to various sites?
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@Strelok I agree with you on everything except the race picking. But maybe they could add an option where you can choose which matchups you want to play on matchmaking.
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