Just enough sentimentality with the breath on a mirror thing/delusion of Amelia to make me miss him while not making me miserable and hate Capaldi. Good way to end 11 all around.
[TV] Doctor Who - Page 37
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Dismay
United States1180 Posts
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + that regeneration was bad. | ||
Dismay
United States1180 Posts
On December 26 2013 13:07 SilverSkyLark wrote: What the fuck was that. Seriously? + Show Spoiler + that regeneration was bad. What didn't you like? Not that I'm trying to argue, I'm just curious because I liked it a lot and look forward to seeing what happens from here. + Show Spoiler + If it's because he didn't bleat on and whine about not wanting to go, I actually love it. It was touching enough while not trying to hammer in emotional impact with fists made of ham. We're already going from the youngest Doctor to one older than any of the Nu-Who Doctors; if they tried to tear out your heart and stomp on it I can imagine a lot of 14 year old girls dropping the show entirely. If you want to complain about the absurdity of regeneration nuking, while I personally thought it was awesome I can see why it might turn some people off. | ||
SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
On December 26 2013 13:43 Dismay wrote: What didn't you like? Not that I'm trying to argue, I'm just curious because I liked it a lot and look forward to seeing what happens from here. + Show Spoiler + If it's because he didn't bleat on and whine about not wanting to go, I actually love it. It was touching enough while not trying to hammer in emotional impact with fists made of ham. We're already going from the youngest Doctor to one older than any of the Nu-Who Doctors; if they tried to tear out your heart and stomp on it I can imagine a lot of 14 year old girls dropping the show entirely. If you want to complain about the absurdity of regeneration nuking, while I personally thought it was awesome I can see why it might turn some people off. + Show Spoiler + I love how Moffat managed to place everything that was in Matt Smiths run in there, the Daleks, Cybermen, Weeping Angels, the Crack, nice mix without getting the feeling that it was forced. I actually liked the part where there was less drama when he was going to regenerate. I don't think they could have forced drama in there with the way the episode was written and as you said, it's touching enough to give people feels. I don't think they could have gone with a regen like 10's cuz fangirls will drop it. It felt like the episode was "weak"? It felt draggy at some parts. So the crack never fully healed? When he did the big bang again, the crack was still there and the Time Lords found it eventually and wanted to go in. And I hate how word was going around that Moffat will tie loose ends with that episode when it didn't. Like how they saved Gallifrey in the 50th Anniv Movie and then suddenly when you watch the End of Time Parts 1 and 2, Gallifrey was still out there getting shot and shit. Yeah and now they got a new plot weapon, the Gallifreyans can just open a crack and send the Doctor help. | ||
Dismay
United States1180 Posts
On December 26 2013 14:02 SilverSkyLark wrote: + Show Spoiler + I love how Moffat managed to place everything that was in Matt Smiths run in there, the Daleks, Cybermen, Weeping Angels, the Crack, nice mix without getting the feeling that it was forced. I actually liked the part where there was less drama when he was going to regenerate. I don't think they could have forced drama in there with the way the episode was written and as you said, it's touching enough to give people feels. I don't think they could have gone with a regen like 10's cuz fangirls will drop it. It felt like the episode was "weak"? It felt draggy at some parts. So the crack never fully healed? When he did the big bang again, the crack was still there and the Time Lords found it eventually and wanted to go in. And I hate how word was going around that Moffat will tie loose ends with that episode when it didn't. Like how they saved Gallifrey in the 50th Anniv Movie and then suddenly when you watch the End of Time Parts 1 and 2, Gallifrey was still out there getting shot and shit. Yeah and now they got a new plot weapon, the Gallifreyans can just open a crack and send the Doctor help. + Show Spoiler + The crack was described as a scar - even if the universe was remade I guess that part was, too. I actually liked that it finally answered the question of 'who caused the Tardis to blow up' unless that was explained in season six somewhere and I missed it. It's been a while since I watched that. I don't think they'll be opening up the weak points forever - I'm pretty sure the goal is still to go bust Gallifrey out someday. And there were a bunch of nice little things, like the little boy asking him if he'll come back with Amy's theme playing and Eleven being the one to drop his bowtie. I thought it was pretty good! I can see why you think it felt weak though. If there's one thing that annoys me about Moffat it's that he's very liberal with randomly tacking years onto the Doctor's life. Jesus, just throw in a hundred years between every visit why don't'cha. | ||
LoLAdriankat
United States4307 Posts
On December 26 2013 06:55 Firebolt145 wrote: From reddit regarding regenerations: + Show Spoiler + [–]Teh_BukkitRory [score hidden] 41 minutes ago The Doctor said it's a completely new regeneration cycle, does that mean Capaldi is number one again, with (at least) twelve more Doctors to come? [–]Ircza [score hidden] 40 minutes ago Indeed it does. From the same thread. + Show Spoiler + [–]redbullcatTennant 261 points 12 hours ago I definitely think Moffat is going for First Doctor parallels. Clara teaches at Coal Hill School, as of the 50th. Tom (the guy at the start of the 50th, and I possibly saw him in this episode (on Trenzalore) but I'm not sure) also teaches at Coal Hill and may be the 'other' companion in series 8. That makes two teachers from Coal Hill School - same as Ian and Barbara with the 1st Doctor. Capaldi is 'old', compared to Smith or Tennant - in fact he's the same age as Hartnell was (55). Capaldi may be difficult to deal with, unpredictable etc, just like the First Doctor was. It's not much but I think there's a good link to the First Doctor here. There's probably a lot more links and clues (provided I'm not imagining this) that I've not seen. [–]IAmManMan 265 points 12 hours ago Hartnell couldn't pilot the TARDIS. Capaldi seems to have forgotten how. permalinkparentreportgive goldreply I've only watched a few episodes of Classic Who, so I don't have anything to say about the 12 and 1 comparisons. I will say that forgetting how to fly the Tardis is probably just the result of The Doctor being whacked out of his mind post-regen, like 10 and 11's first moments. | ||
publicenemies
458 Posts
On December 26 2013 13:07 SilverSkyLark wrote: What the fuck was that. Seriously? + Show Spoiler + that regeneration was bad. I agree with you, but everything following up to that part was fucking amazing. | ||
Crushinator
Netherlands2138 Posts
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + The reason why his regeneration was powerful enough to nuke all the Daleks was because it was the first in a second set, which is a rare and powerful thing, also likely that the Time Lords added some extra spice to it just for that occasion (see the Night of the Doctor short for evidence that they can influence regeneration). Likely, this is also causing his memory problems, it's an entirely new set of regenerations, so it's likely that a lot of stuff will get lost in the transition. It'll be interesting to see if they handwave it all away in the first couple of episodes or whether it becomes a recurring issue and the Doctor is drastically different afterwards. The theory that he's acting like the first holds more weight than normal because he IS the first in this line of regens, so the parallels to Doctor #1 are not accidental. The reason I really didn't like this episode was that it felt like it was so obligated to tie up all the loose ends of the 11th's through lines that it took up way too much of the story doing so, leaving a barebones story for the actual episode overall. I mean it's really just the Doctor sitting in 1 town the entire time, Clara getting sent home twice but through plot contrivances returning at 300 year intervals, and cameos by all the bad guys (but the Daleks are, as usual, the only ones that actually matter). Anyway, it'll be interesting to see whether or not Gallifrey manages to return or if they're just going to sit there in the parallel universe the whole time. It showed they can open new cracks (the one in the sky), but both cracks closed by the end of the episode, so it's still uncertain. I have hope for Capaldi because he's a great actor, but I'm not sure about the way the story is going, looks like we'll have to wait ~6 months to find out, in true Dr. Who fashion. Edit: Also, 1 more thing: I still hate Clara. The actress is fine, but the character is just a cipher of "what a companion should be" based on all the ones that came before them without any personality of her own. She somehow knows everything about the Doctor after a couple of episodes and we're never shown how she knows these things. Even before the "Name of the Doctor" episode where she went through his entire timeline and thus arguably knows him better than he knows himself (but this sentiment is NEVER manifested because goddammit that'd make her interesting). She gets in trouble at exactly the right times for the plots, she helps out with words and not actions at the exact right time in the plot, etc. Compared to Rose, Martha, Donna, and Amy she's nothing. They all had interesting family dynamics on top of a much more headstrong personality that lead to actual clashes with The Doctor quite frequently, This episode was the first time we saw her family and they were pretty much just played for one gag, and she's never done anything to upset The Doctor. Compare Rings of Ankheten (or whatever) to The Beast Below as second episodes for the companion. Amy takes such strong action that The Doctor wants to throw her out, but she ends up saving the day. Clara ends up saving the day because of a leaf and a speech. She doesn't actually DO ANYTHING, just talks about stuff and it magically works. In this episode again, the only thing worthwhile that she does is talk into the crack and somehow convince the Time Lords that The Doctor is worth saving. FUCK, if it was that easy to communicate, why hadn't The Doctor already explained the situation through the crack? I thought it was damn near impossible to talk back and forth without some massive translator on their end because of the distortion. All she serves as is a massive, gaping plothole and a failed attempt at an audience insert character. | ||
Mb79584
United States164 Posts
On December 26 2013 21:28 Crushinator wrote: I must say the special was not as epic as I hoped. Nothing much happened really. It was alright I geuss. Gonna miss the 11th. They might have tried to calm down and try not to be rediculous but thats what I miss | ||
Coppermantis
United States845 Posts
Why couldn't the daleks just shoot him twice like River did at Lake Salencio and stop his regeneration. \ | ||
Noocta
France12574 Posts
On December 27 2013 01:27 deth2munkies wrote: OK, look. + Show Spoiler + The reason why his regeneration was powerful enough to nuke all the Daleks was because it was the first in a second set, which is a rare and powerful thing, also likely that the Time Lords added some extra spice to it just for that occasion (see the Night of the Doctor short for evidence that they can influence regeneration). Likely, this is also causing his memory problems, it's an entirely new set of regenerations, so it's likely that a lot of stuff will get lost in the transition. It'll be interesting to see if they handwave it all away in the first couple of episodes or whether it becomes a recurring issue and the Doctor is drastically different afterwards. The theory that he's acting like the first holds more weight than normal because he IS the first in this line of regens, so the parallels to Doctor #1 are not accidental. The reason I really didn't like this episode was that it felt like it was so obligated to tie up all the loose ends of the 11th's through lines that it took up way too much of the story doing so, leaving a barebones story for the actual episode overall. I mean it's really just the Doctor sitting in 1 town the entire time, Clara getting sent home twice but through plot contrivances returning at 300 year intervals, and cameos by all the bad guys (but the Daleks are, as usual, the only ones that actually matter). Anyway, it'll be interesting to see whether or not Gallifrey manages to return or if they're just going to sit there in the parallel universe the whole time. It showed they can open new cracks (the one in the sky), but both cracks closed by the end of the episode, so it's still uncertain. I have hope for Capaldi because he's a great actor, but I'm not sure about the way the story is going, looks like we'll have to wait ~6 months to find out, in true Dr. Who fashion. Edit: Also, 1 more thing: I still hate Clara. The actress is fine, but the character is just a cipher of "what a companion should be" based on all the ones that came before them without any personality of her own. She somehow knows everything about the Doctor after a couple of episodes and we're never shown how she knows these things. Even before the "Name of the Doctor" episode where she went through his entire timeline and thus arguably knows him better than he knows himself (but this sentiment is NEVER manifested because goddammit that'd make her interesting). She gets in trouble at exactly the right times for the plots, she helps out with words and not actions at the exact right time in the plot, etc. Compared to Rose, Martha, Donna, and Amy she's nothing. They all had interesting family dynamics on top of a much more headstrong personality that lead to actual clashes with The Doctor quite frequently, This episode was the first time we saw her family and they were pretty much just played for one gag, and she's never done anything to upset The Doctor. Compare Rings of Ankheten (or whatever) to The Beast Below as second episodes for the companion. Amy takes such strong action that The Doctor wants to throw her out, but she ends up saving the day. Clara ends up saving the day because of a leaf and a speech. She doesn't actually DO ANYTHING, just talks about stuff and it magically works. In this episode again, the only thing worthwhile that she does is talk into the crack and somehow convince the Time Lords that The Doctor is worth saving. FUCK, if it was that easy to communicate, why hadn't The Doctor already explained the situation through the crack? I thought it was damn near impossible to talk back and forth without some massive translator on their end because of the distortion. All she serves as is a massive, gaping plothole and a failed attempt at an audience insert character. I'm going to agree with all of that, especially the points on Clara. Worst companion so far since the 2005 comeback. | ||
Dismay
United States1180 Posts
As far as companions, nobody is as awful as Rose Tyler and her awful family (even worse when you bundle in Mickey.) That's just my opinion, though. I like her, not as much as Amy/Martha/Donna and maaaybe Rose/9 but certainly more than Rose/10. | ||
Requizen
United States33802 Posts
This was my first regeneration that I've watched "live", since I only recently started watching the show, and I thought it was rather brilliant. I really liked Matt Smith, and I would have been pissed if they gave him a crappy goodbye. I mean, none of them have been bad so far, but I was still worried. The thing I really liked about the episode was that it felt like a goodbye to Matt more than just an episode. Like, Eccleston's and Tennant's were good and made sense, but were were at the end of otherwise stand alone episodes, in essence really only giving them a goodbye "scene" rather than a goodbye "episode". This whole thing felt like a love letter to Matt from the show writers, which is great for me since I grew to love him a lot over the last seasons. It makes sense to me, too. 9 was mostly quiet and just looking to find his place, and he found Rose, regenerating to save her. 10 was atoning for his mistakes and always in the action (seriously, so many action scenes in his run), and he regenerated after a battle and after patching things up with all of his companions. 11 was always sentimental. He just wanted to enjoy and help and do things, and growing old loving and being loved by the town and Clara seemed perfect for him, in a way. I dunno. The episode dragged a bit, but it just felt right. Matt getting speeches, the emotional scenes, the callbacks to all his old enemies and adventures... great BUT NOW I HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL FUCKING AUTUMN ARE YOU KIDDING ME | ||
Crushinator
Netherlands2138 Posts
On December 27 2013 16:33 Requizen wrote: I was waiting for that for some time. This was my first regeneration that I've watched "live", since I only recently started watching the show, and I thought it was rather brilliant. I really liked Matt Smith, and I would have been pissed if they gave him a crappy goodbye. I mean, none of them have been bad so far, but I was still worried. The thing I really liked about the episode was that it felt like a goodbye to Matt more than just an episode. Like, Eccleston's and Tennant's were good and made sense, but were were at the end of otherwise stand alone episodes, in essence really only giving them a goodbye "scene" rather than a goodbye "episode". This whole thing felt like a love letter to Matt from the show writers, which is great for me since I grew to love him a lot over the last seasons. It makes sense to me, too. 9 was mostly quiet and just looking to find his place, and he found Rose, regenerating to save her. 10 was atoning for his mistakes and always in the action (seriously, so many action scenes in his run), and he regenerated after a battle and after patching things up with all of his companions. 11 was always sentimental. He just wanted to enjoy and help and do things, and growing old loving and being loved by the town and Clara seemed perfect for him, in a way. I dunno. The episode dragged a bit, but it just felt right. Matt getting speeches, the emotional scenes, the callbacks to all his old enemies and adventures... great BUT NOW I HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL FUCKING AUTUMN ARE YOU KIDDING ME I would say 11 wasn't very sentimental at all, 10 was the sentimental one. A willingness to lie and betray the confidence of his companion and the townspeople whenever he thought it best was very characteristic of him though, as was the voluntary retreat into the childlike setting of the town of Christmas. I also would say that 10 had an extremely elaborate goodbye compared to the others, the fact that he had to die was a theme that spanned several episodes and a special. As much as I hated seeing 10 walk around with his silly "serious face" it was really well done. Autumn | ||
Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
I hope the new Doctor will be more like the first one, the old, wise and rational thinker instead of a crazy maniac. | ||
TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
Pretty meh special overall in my opinion. Still haven't answered how Clara still exists as a functioning individual rather than echoes despite jumping into the Doctor's timestream and deciding to introduce a whole new family for her instead of just reusing the family she was a nanny for (did I miss her leaving them or something?). Biggest loose end and likely one Moffat doesn't know how to solve yet. Also, did Old!Doctor forget he has a time machine that lets him return at the exact moment he left or what? No reason not to say a proper goodbye/have a few last adventures with Clara offscreen. Instead, ditch her again. Way to go Doctor, dickness accomplished.. Why Daleks didn't drop the tech field during the time they controlled Tasha Lem and just vaporize the planet, I have no idea. Then again, these are the same Daleks that built the perfect prison for the Doctor that could be opened by the sonic screwdriver. Still, an interesting setting and a way to solve the regeneration problem, even if it was a pretty obvious solution. If the crack can just teleport around, though, they might have done that earlier instead of trapping the Doctor for hundreds of years (they could hear Clara, surely they could hear him when he talked around the crack the first time). But hey, it's sci-fi, there's always issues. | ||
jcroisdale
United States1543 Posts
On December 28 2013 05:29 TheTenthDoc wrote: + Show Spoiler + Pretty meh special overall in my opinion. Still haven't answered how Clara still exists as a functioning individual rather than echoes despite jumping into the Doctor's timestream and deciding to introduce a whole new family for her instead of just reusing the family she was a nanny for (did I miss her leaving them or something?). Biggest loose end and likely one Moffat doesn't know how to solve yet. Also, did Old!Doctor forget he has a time machine that lets him return at the exact moment he left or what? No reason not to say a proper goodbye/have a few last adventures with Clara offscreen. Instead, ditch her again. Way to go Doctor, dickness accomplished.. Why Daleks didn't drop the tech field during the time they controlled Tasha Lem and just vaporize the planet, I have no idea. Then again, these are the same Daleks that built the perfect prison for the Doctor that could be opened by the sonic screwdriver. Still, an interesting setting and a way to solve the regeneration problem, even if it was a pretty obvious solution. If the crack can just teleport around, though, they might have done that earlier instead of trapping the Doctor for hundreds of years (they could hear Clara, surely they could hear him when he talked around the crack the first time). But hey, it's sci-fi, there's always issues. In the episode the Doc says Tasha would never give them the codes to the field, even with the dalek inside of her. right? | ||
Valiver
Caldeum1976 Posts
On December 28 2013 08:15 jcroisdale wrote: In the episode the Doc says Tasha would never give them the codes to the field, even with the dalek inside of her. right? Yeah she wouldn't give them the codes. | ||
TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On December 28 2013 08:15 jcroisdale wrote: In the episode the Doc says Tasha would never give them the codes to the field, even with the dalek inside of her. right? Then blow up the ship creating the field. The Daleks have never cared about that before and it can't be that hard when you control everyone onboard. | ||
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