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Hi Guys another game design post be sure to check out my proposed infestor one as well!
Down to business, The viking is really weak right now on the ground I never see it used and I feel like it's because the transformation time, ground damage, and ground durability against light units all need some attention when making changes to the unit, however not all of these things need to be implemented.
Viking ideas
Swoop to land - 4-5 range swoop ability when going air to ground to make landing more aggressive since you won't have to hover over the turret you can spot it from far away then swoop into it with vikings to harass and to make small task forces of vikings be able to attack into small amounts of marines without taking ridiculous damage on the way in.
Shield upgrade at tech lab - Neosteel buffer - 150/100 50 seconds research time : Gives vikings on the ground +2 armor
Ground damage buff to 2-3 shot workers lings and perhaps noncombat shield rines?
Possible air speed upgrade at fusion core? - 200/150 110 seconds Magnus Thrusters - Increases base move speed by 15% while in teh air and allows for a 5 range super boost to dodge incoming projectiles ( can only be used in straight lines and can be activated during swoop.
The tank! The tankivac is a huge problem to most people so I will hope for an answer to the roach ravager problem while still keeping the tankivac and option to those that like it!
tankivac upgrade at techlab on starport ( to encourage tech plays and to encourage factory rax swapping eventually) 100/100 60 seconds
increased tank mode damage to 20 per shot and allow to on top of the new tracking feature allow it to shoot while running away much like a phoinex does (honestly how lame is it that the turret points at shit but the wheels must stop to fire)
Hellfire shell - Armory required, Tech lab on factory required 200/175 155 seconds- + 20 dps for 3 seconds within ~3 range of the initial tank shot ( I think flaming zerglings and flaming marines rauders roaches would be tight as fuck)
Anyways have fun tearing em up
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All your ideas except increasing the damage on unsieged tanks would break the game.
1) Vikings are not supposed to be good on the ground. The only reason is had that functionality is so that when you kill your opponents air unit, you are not stuck with 16 supply and x amount of resource in a unit that cant do anything ( The old corrupter syndrome.) Increasing its damage and giving it 2+ armor will make it way too good in anti air and anti ground. The vikings speed is also at a good spot combined with its 9 range. No need to buff it.
2) Tanks could do with a buff in its unsieged mode perhaps??? There are very few cases where you want to have unsieged tanks vs their sieged counterpart. Increasing the amount of cases shouldnt be a bad thing. However, I do believe that your proposed "Hellfire shell" tank upgrade would break mech in ZvT and also kill bio play in TvT. It would be too much damage for the low health units that tend to make up bio and too much damage incoming before Zerg can get into its attack range.
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I knew all that if all of the changes were implemented vikings would be too strong, They likey only need one of the stat boosts and the swoop
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I always thought vikings should be able to "swoop", since ground vikings dont see a lot of interesting action. you might put them on the ground if you wreck someones air army, otherwise it doesnt happen a lot. on the other hand t already has drops, banshees and liberators filling the harass function.
if viking landing required you to click the place they should land on, they could "swoop" towards that spot from ~5 range, making a surprise assault with vikings much more effective. but then i do not think they should receive any stat buffs at all. 2 armor or a strong gound attack would make them extremely powerful.
the problem with tanks is that they are imo just not good enough in siege mode. there are so many counters, i really think they deserve a straight buff. reintroduce siege tech, remove siege drop, introduce overkill, whatever, i just want my tanks to actually hurt.. that said, i do like the thought of phoenix style tankmode fire. might need a damage nerf in that case though
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To call the viking anti-ground mode an afterthought is an understatement.
Vikings had 14 ground damage back in WoL beta. I honestly didn't think a nerf was necessary at the time and many ground units have been buffed since then. I know Blizzard seemed to think that it would be pretty cool to have a unit that transforms, but it actually holds the unit back and most vikings spend their entire existence in flight. Hell, you usually don't want to land your vikings if it risks losing them, because you need to maintain your air advantage (TvT, PvT). It's range is the only reason it's useful for anti-air, because it's very unremarkable in every other respect (cost, dps, health).
I think an alternative idea would be to reduce the viking transformation time, so that it can get into a ground fight before the battle has already been (at least mostly) decided.
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On November 19 2015 02:33 BeStFAN wrote: wow amazing
Again with that quote. I'm going to start following you everywhere to check if you ever say something else... :D
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On November 19 2015 00:46 Dwarda wrote: also kill bio play in TvT. It would be too much damage for the low health units that tend to make up bio
That so not true, a buff to tanks wouldn't kill bio.
1.- Because mech sucks big time now
2.- Bio player have an advatange in tank vs tank because they make more medivacs than mech players since they use them for their bio. Also bio player get a lot of tanks too.
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Lol I totally just realized that 100 range is ridiculous in starcraft so i changed it, it is now at an acceptable range of ~3 range
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I'm honestly surprised not more people want to discus giving new abilities to stale badly designed units.. The viking fits that description so perfectly in most of it's games.. I remember when people starrted to rush out one viking vs zerg to go snipe all the overlords!! now imagine that into an actual viking harass build with 3-5 vikings to go raid the mineral line..
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On November 20 2015 03:30 Dillon1 wrote: now imagine that into an actual viking harass build with 3-5 vikings to go raid the mineral line..
That was actually Blizzard's intent for the unit and people used it like that in WoL beta. Then they nerfed it and that was that...
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Because it would be fucking awesome
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I think instead of a "swoop" ability it would make more sense to modify the existing lift/land ability to allow movement during the animation.
The ability should also activate immediately when the player activates it, rather than waiting for the Viking to come to a complete stop. And, during landing, if there is a unit in the way (e.g. another Viking) it should push that unit out of the way, instead of being unable to land.
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Viking transformation time could be shortened. I don't see any problems with that. Could open new modes for harassment and micro.
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Russian Federation473 Posts
I actually thought of swapping banshee and viking to make terran air more interesting:
Viking - more expensive (like 200/150/3), requires techlab, a little bit stronger (hp and damage buff, both air and ground) and much faster (air like phoenix, ground like stalker)
Banshee - same price (maybe supply cost down to 2 from 3), doesn't require techlab, no speed upgrade
Could that be cool?
As for the tanks, fire on the move would be totally appropriate
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I think ganseng that this is the situation where that would be less cool:
TvT : one goes for 2 banshees the other goes for a single viking! The viking holds off one of the banshees trying to harass the main then the second banshee goes crazy on the second bases mineral line
Now currently it works the reverse you can get 2 vikings to defend the single banshee to somewhat allow two base defense.
I like banshees the way they are I guess.
Yes shootn n scootn tankfire seems easy to implement and will likely be pretty damn fun in some games, Helps tanks run away as well or even serve as a unit that is thought of as seperate than just the siege mode ( which kinda went out the window with the free siege tech) I just picture a timing where 3-5 tanks that siege to hold position then unsiege to just take advantage of the alternate damage dynamic
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On November 19 2015 00:28 Dillon1 wrote: Hi Guys another game design post be sure to check out my proposed infestor one as well!
Down to business, The viking is really weak right now on the ground I never see it used and I feel like it's because the transformation time, ground damage, and ground durability against light units all need some attention when making changes to the unit, however not all of these things need to be implemented.
Viking ideas
Swoop to land - 4-5 range swoop ability when going air to ground to make landing more aggressive since you won't have to hover over the turret you can spot it from far away then swoop into it with vikings to harass and to make small task forces of vikings be able to attack into small amounts of marines without taking ridiculous damage on the way in.
Shield upgrade at tech lab - Neosteel buffer - 150/100 50 seconds research time : Gives vikings on the ground +2 armor
Ground damage buff to 2-3 shot workers lings and perhaps noncombat shield rines?
Possible air speed upgrade at fusion core? - 200/150 110 seconds Magnus Thrusters - Increases base move speed by 15% while in teh air and allows for a 5 range super boost to dodge incoming projectiles ( can only be used in straight lines and can be activated during swoop.
The tank! The tankivac is a huge problem to most people so I will hope for an answer to the roach ravager problem while still keeping the tankivac and option to those that like it!
tankivac upgrade at techlab on starport ( to encourage tech plays and to encourage factory rax swapping eventually) 100/100 60 seconds
increased tank mode damage to 20 per shot and allow to on top of the new tracking feature allow it to shoot while running away much like a phoinex does (honestly how lame is it that the turret points at shit but the wheels must stop to fire)
Hellfire shell - Armory required, Tech lab on factory required 200/175 155 seconds- + 20 dps for 3 seconds within ~3 range of the initial tank shot ( I think flaming zerglings and flaming marines rauders roaches would be tight as fuck)
Anyways have fun tearing em up
I want to propose...To add stalkers a bit of dmg..to 1 shot vikings And colosus hit air with splash and range 15... And maybe give disruptor, dmg to buildings....and leap ability, so you can build it on your natural , and instanly leap ball to enemy base....
Maybe some mutalisk upgrade...make it split to 2 mutas if died....then to 2 more...then to 2 more...so 8 mutas will be final.. And... maybe roaches attacks to bounce of 929483927 targets, so if roaches come to you and do 1 shot...you are on the clock before they bounce of all of your buildings and destroy everything... Ofcourse dont forget about overlord hive upgrade - Air+Ground attack, 50 DMG, shade, blink, shield, BLOW UP(like baneling) and after blown , ---SPAWN 204912304124891 ZERGLINGS YOLO
Some more fun theory crafting...no offence dude :D
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Okay lol I'm sure
I would love if you could get a hive upgrade to get a scourge out a dead muta but otherwise you're nuts
You know viking swoop just "feels" right because I feel like 4-5 vikings should be able to dive a turret comfortably and imagine the defensive swoops to deal with incoming units (maybe)
The tank shell is the real fuckery I think XD
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Buffing an already strong race to make changes for mirror MU....terrible idea.
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Half buff mostly a tweak to tankivac interaction and timing and I've been hearing talk of the tank suffering somewhat and the shell is a step forwards in thinking at least. XD
The viking buff is far past due because vikings are lame and their praised assault mode doesn't get shit for play imho swoop would be tight ' armor buff would be pretty cool in some situations boost is a pipedream imo
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