On June 07 2016 21:55 overt wrote: If our team needs damage I primarily play Pharah as I used to play a ton of Quake and TF2 so she feels familiar to me. As Pharah, Mei is a joke and is only annoying if she hits shift of if you let her stay alive when you ult and she icicles you in the head.
As for the comment about McCree above I agree that Widow/Hanzo are awesome against McCree. Pharah is not though, her biggest threats are accurate hitscan characters like 76, McCree, or the sniper classes because they can pick you out of the air easily. If you're winning long range battles against a McCree as Pharah then he's a shit McCree. I also disagree that Junkrat is really a counter, he's just good at area denial but if McCree gets past your spam or flanks he should be able to kill Junkrat easy.
I didn't want to imply that those are counters, but rather that each of the listed heroes have something that they can use against Mccree. I play alot of phara but I'am rarely fighting in the air lately. I mostly use her mobility for positioning and then I slightly hover over the ground to shoot the rockets. That way you get a way better angle for your rockets and are harder to hit as well. Anyhow a phara can kill mcree in 2 rockets from any distance, while Mccree's damage falls off hard after a few meters. And I'am not saying that you should go head on vs him. You use the right angles and timings ofc. From my experience Hanzos and Widows are a much bigger threat to Phara than Mccree.
And that is just one example of a hero that can do well against him given the right circumstance play. I think the *main* reason people find him frustrating is that when you get caught then you're dead 100%, while against others you can often do something about it. I have to admit that his reloading speed is too high, so it is very forgiving to use hammer.
The reason people are tired of McCree is that he's supposed to be a squishy highmobility counter. If McCree wasn't in the game maybe Tracers/Genjis would be everywhere. This is fine, this is what McCree is in the game for.
However, McCree also kills tanks way too fucking quickly. Like Winston dies instantly to Flashback RMB roll RMB. You can counter Reinharts shield with a flashbang over it.
Killing tanks is supposed to be what Reaper does well. But now McCree does it even better. So he's too good at everything currently because LMB is still really good at range.
Remove reload on rolling, and reduce the CD so he can roll more often imo.
I play McCree and I understand the concern about McCree killing tanks too quickly, but I think he's too good at killing squishies too. I'm fine with McCree being some sort of hard counter to squishies but this is too much. Just yesterday, I flashbanged Tracer, killer her with fan, transferred the remainder of my ammo after Tracer died over to Lucio who died too, rolled and used fan on some other 200 hp guy who also died. It was WAY too easy to do, and the counters to it are disproportionately hard to pull off under the circumstances where it happened. The fact that he kills tanks easily is just icing on the cake.
I think the best fix to McCree is a 6 seconds cooldown on fan the hammer. He would remain a huge threat at close range for squishies but he loses his insane burst damage and his ability to easily double or triple down on kills on 200 hp heroes. Rolling would still reload the revolver but if you used fan before you can't reuse it right away. I think it would preserve McCree as a useful hero - he can still dish out a lot of damage, especially if he follows up his fan with a roll and headshots so it would be more skillful and would require more thoughtful positioning. I think a simple 6 sec cooldown would be very reasonable.
Idk the situation you are describing could also be a sniper who headshots 3 people in quick succession. In your situation you describe that you killed tracer & lucio with a rmb transfer and then some other guy with rolle and rmb. However I feel like your opponents might have underplayed their situation. If I see a McCree looking at me then I instantly use w/e defensive ability I have because I know flashbang is comming. The tracer could have used her jump or reset to dodge flashbang, lucio could have used rmb to mess with your aim and to punish the spray of your rmb and the 200 hp guy who was there could have killed you during flashbang rmb. In a situation where everyone misses their shots and doesn't use their defensive abilities Mccree is really good I agree. However I think given the time people will start to be able to outplay McCrees with their defensive abilities.
I also do not completely agree with him being a general tank killer. He might be good against winston who is very popular atm but his flashbang doesn't pierce Reinhardt's, D.Va's and Zarya's shields as far as I know and Roadhog is a skill matchup for him, each can burst the other down, Roadhog does it faster though.
On June 08 2016 03:02 clickrush wrote: Idk the situation you are describing could also be a sniper who headshots 3 people in quick succession. In your situation you describe that you killed tracer & lucio with a rmb transfer and then some other guy with rolle and rmb. However I feel like your opponents might have underplayed their situation. If I see a McCree looking at me then I instantly use w/e defensive ability I have because I know flashbang is comming. The tracer could have used her jump or reset to dodge flashbang, lucio could have used rmb to mess with your aim and to punish the spray of your rmb and the 200 hp guy who was there could have killed you during flashbang rmb. In a situation where everyone misses their shots and doesn't use their defensive abilities Mccree is really good I agree. However I think given the time people will start to be able to outplay McCrees with their defensive abilities.
I also do not completely agree with him being a general tank killer. He might be good against winston who is very popular atm but his flashbang doesn't pierce Reinhardt's, D.Va's and Zarya's shields as far as I know and Roadhog is a skill matchup for him, each can burst the other down, Roadhog does it faster though.
Widowmaker getting 3 headshots in quick succession is a lot harder for most people (myself included) than getting 3 kills with McCree with some simple maneuvering. Often you won't see McCree. This happened on a section of Lijiang tower, the "Night Market", I was in the side room next to the point and I was waiting in the corner, I used my flashbang on Tracer using the sound to time it - there's nothing she could've done to prevent it. Lucio may have messed up by not bumping me but there was fighting going on the other side so maybe he was preoccupied with that or it was on cooldown, he wasn't fully hp. As for the third guy, I actually rolled outside and killed him.
So it went -Tracer is flashed before she knows I'm there -I swing out of my corner, start my fan the hammer -During my swing out, tracer dies to my first 2-3 shots -I flick to the lucio I notice is near the tracer, he also dies because he doesn't bump me (he had a split second) -I roll out giving me vision on a third guy, I fan the hammer and he dies. It was a soldier or a reaper I think. This guy never had an angle on me until I rolled in his sight.
And at my MMR at least McCree is a definite tank killer. As McCree I can pick my battle, I won't hard engage a roadhog who has his hook available, but when I hear or see him use it, I can bring him to pound town in two seconds with McCree. As for Reinhardt, in many cases you can actually just toss the flashbang above him and bring his shield down.
Ok sounds like you play a really good mccree then. On the roadhog thing, I still think it is a skill matchup, both roadhog and mccree are good flankers, you described a situation where you know where he is but he doesn't know where you are and that is always gonna be the key to pick a target, he can't burst multiple people down like mcree but he has better range on his combo and he has other things going for him as well. I never feel like Mccree is too powerful when I get owned by one but I always see something I could have done to prevent it and come out on top. I might be biased because I usually play phara who is a succeptiple to his ult but is way more mobile and has the range and information advantage over Mccree.
I will boldly predict the following: Even if McCree will not get changed (mainly nerfed), he will fall off in the semi-near future, because people will pick up comps and playstiles to deal with him, especially when people amp up their information game. Currently people are more about the basics: Hero composition, individual plays, synergy, positioning and grouping. But I feel like information and more tactical ways of attacking and defending will be a bigger factor in the future. Heroes that are big on the information game like Hanzo, Phara, Symmetra etc. will rise a bit in popularity because of this and low mobility flankers like McCree will suffer from this. Nerfing him right now might be a mistake. (by "fall off" I don't mean to "shit tier" but "balanced")
On June 08 2016 03:02 clickrush wrote: Idk the situation you are describing could also be a sniper who headshots 3 people in quick succession. In your situation you describe that you killed tracer & lucio with a rmb transfer and then some other guy with rolle and rmb. However I feel like your opponents might have underplayed their situation. If I see a McCree looking at me then I instantly use w/e defensive ability I have because I know flashbang is comming. The tracer could have used her jump or reset to dodge flashbang, lucio could have used rmb to mess with your aim and to punish the spray of your rmb and the 200 hp guy who was there could have killed you during flashbang rmb. In a situation where everyone misses their shots and doesn't use their defensive abilities Mccree is really good I agree. However I think given the time people will start to be able to outplay McCrees with their defensive abilities.
I also do not completely agree with him being a general tank killer. He might be good against winston who is very popular atm but his flashbang doesn't pierce Reinhardt's, D.Va's and Zarya's shields as far as I know and Roadhog is a skill matchup for him, each can burst the other down, Roadhog does it faster though.
You can remove reinhardts shield by just flashbanging above, it's really easy, the stun range is insane
His right click does 420 damage if all bullets hit, Zarya has 400hp. If he rolls after and shoot again he does 840 damage, so he can kill roadhog in less than 2seconds.
Mcree isn't just capable of flanking, he is the strongest 1v1 hero, he can shoot from midrange and the front to bust tanks. He deals way more damage then any other hero(the only reason I pick Reaper over Mcree is because I want to play Reaper, Mcree is just better usually). Mcree has only two downsides, 1 is low mobility and the other one is no self-healing but those disadvantages are minimal compared to its huge ass damage and stupid stun.
A bad Mcree is annoying to play against because a monkey can flash rightclick you but a good Mcree is stupidly OP.
Love the forced 50% WR, at morning went 8-1, now evening, 0-14 with 5 autist team every game.
Also PSA: never play while Seagull plays, because every fucking piece of shit think they can play hanzo or genji like him and ur games are flooded with retards who cant do a jackshit with those heroes.
Again, since he has such low mobility he will get far less flanks and "1on1"s in the future when people get more communicative and use information and scouting better. I think it is too early to touch his balance.
You need atleast 2 people to deal with him always, he doesn't have to flank but if he does he is a huge threat if he doesn't he is still a huge threat. Why are you so focussed on him being a flanker? Tracer is a flanker, Genji is a flanker, Mcree just happens to be able to do far more then that. He is better then Reaper in every single aspect apart from the mobility part where Mcree can't go high ground that easily.
I don't get how you can defend a hero that can deal 420 damage has a flash bang that aoe stuns people and has a reload speed thats on par with all other heroes and another skill that servers as a mobility skill and reloads his gun.
He is so OP that his lack of mobility doesn't matter, its a comparitive of advantages and disadvantages and a comparison to other heroes. Mcree's only weaknesss is his lack of mobility and that mobility is still decent, he just can't go up high.
On June 08 2016 07:15 clickrush wrote: Again, since he has such low mobility he will get far less flanks and "1on1"s in the future when people get more communicative and use information and scouting better. I think it is too early to touch his balance.
blizzard has already confirmed he's getting nerfed, they just don't know how yet. There are so many double McCrees in competitive atm because he isn't weak against anything and hardcounters a lot of things
On June 06 2016 19:23 WindWolf wrote: Mei in Overwatch is becoming more and more what Priest is in Hearthstone for me, which that I think that are way stronger than people claim that they are
Becoming more and more apparent every day I play this game...
Very curious bug. Like the guy says, I doubt it'll make a big difference, but I can think of a few times I tried to snipe Pharah directly overhead. Never noticed anything wrong but in light of that information it's not impossible that I missed a few shots I aimed correctly, or actually hit a few shots I shouldn't have.
On June 08 2016 07:15 clickrush wrote: Again, since he has such low mobility he will get far less flanks and "1on1"s in the future when people get more communicative and use information and scouting better. I think it is too early to touch his balance.
blizzard has already confirmed he's getting nerfed, they just don't know how yet. There are so many double McCrees in competitive atm because he isn't weak against anything and hardcounters a lot of things
Right click damage will be reduced in the coming patch for Mcree. Which in short means, Mei and Reaper are really deadly close range now for a Mcree and that you can't amp RMB a Reinhard anymore after stunning him over/under his shields and left clicks midrange will be truly superior, they are already, but there are lucky people out there. Will still be able to roll dbl RMB tanks in the face though. But D.Va will probably laugh at you unless you hit the cockpit. D.Va will receive a buff to her survivability or damage, but they don't know what they will do so the buff will be somewhere in the future.
Dear god, I'm usually an offence / widow+junkrat / tank player, and have been trying a bit of Mercy recently in soloqueue. This shit is stressfull. Maybe I take it to heart too much when people die near me but some of them act really stupid. You see it a lot easier when you're in the back rather than at the front / in the flanks.
On June 10 2016 09:10 Noocta wrote: Dear god, I'm usually an offence / widow+junkrat / tank player, and have been trying a bit of Mercy recently in soloqueue. This shit is stressfull. Maybe I take it to heart too much when people die near me but some of them act really stupid. You see it a lot easier when you're in the back rather than at the front / in the flanks.
You have to dispatch yourself from that. Mercy and Lucio aren't responsible for their teammates deaths. Mercy is stressful in particular because she is extremely dependand on her teammates positioning. What I do not like at the moment is that we cannot easily see who is performing well, because then I would pick mercy far more often and prioritize players who are doing well. A dps buff on a good player is way more effective than healing a weak one, especially if he/she has bad positioning. That's why I like Lucio way more. His healing power is similarly strong but you can fend for yourself better (self heal, knockback, speed buff) so it is way easier to just sit on the objective and tell people to come to you if they need sustain. A mercy is harder to play in terms of decision making. If you have a really good mobile dps teammate (Soldier, Phara, Widow, Hanzo etc.) then it is easy again because it is far more effective to just prioritize him/her completely and only sustain others when you have breathing room. It is actually quite ridiculous what a good player can do with a pet Mercy.
On June 08 2016 07:15 clickrush wrote: Again, since he has such low mobility he will get far less flanks and "1on1"s in the future when people get more communicative and use information and scouting better. I think it is too early to touch his balance.
blizzard has already confirmed he's getting nerfed, they just don't know how yet. There are so many double McCrees in competitive atm because he isn't weak against anything and hardcounters a lot of things
Right click damage will be reduced in the coming patch for Mcree. Which in short means, Mei and Reaper are really deadly close range now for a Mcree and that you can't amp RMB a Reinhard anymore after stunning him over/under his shields and left clicks midrange will be truly superior, they are already, but there are lucky people out there. Will still be able to roll dbl RMB tanks in the face though. But D.Va will probably laugh at you unless you hit the cockpit. D.Va will receive a buff to her survivability or damage, but they don't know what they will do so the buff will be somewhere in the future.
They will not reduce RMB to be less effective against non-tank heroes. McCree will still burst everything down which is not a tank. Right now RMB is a complete overkill for a non-tank. It is actually way more efficient and equally fast to tap a stunned squishy 2 times in the head (or 1 head 1 body at close range) than to use RMB. People just use RMB because it is just easier and there are a low percentage of kills you wouldnt get with tapping.
I have no issues with the nerf tbh because it will only affect bursting tanks and that is completely fine in my book.
Jesus Christ sometimes I'm so bad at this game it makes me question if I'm retarded or not. I don't get how someone can be so shit at every game but I manage.