On May 26 2017 22:47 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Hope Littlefinger finally dies this season.
Hope Littlefinger finally dies this season.
Cheers to that, while rewatching I found myself somehow disliking him more and more lol.
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farvacola
United States18768 Posts
May 26 2017 14:26 GMT
#31941
On May 26 2017 22:47 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Hope Littlefinger finally dies this season. Cheers to that, while rewatching I found myself somehow disliking him more and more lol. | ||
Dav1oN
Ukraine3159 Posts
May 26 2017 14:40 GMT
#31942
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Scorch
Austria3371 Posts
May 26 2017 16:29 GMT
#31943
On May 26 2017 07:24 andrewlt wrote: Most people in the middle ages barely wore any armor. The nobles who were rich enough to afford what we in the present call real armor had a swordbearer, a spearbearer, a shieldbearer, an armorbearer, you get the point. That's generalizing too much. Someone going to war and expecting to fight would always wear the best armor they could possibly afford, since their life depended on it. The later we get in history, the more affordable armor gets. While it's not clear in which period Game of Thrones plays, it's safe to assume that at that time, pretty much everyone could afford at least a proper gambeson and helmet. The armies we see in Game of Thrones are mostly made up not of peasants, but professional townsguards, soldiers and mercenaries, so one could expect chain maille on them with padding underneath, or even breastplates. By the way, a few more points about historical accuracy in pop culture (also generalizing): the dominant melee weapons on medieval European battlefields were polearms like spears, bills, pikes or halberds. Swords were usually sidearms, i.e. backup or self defense weapons you could conveniently carry around in a scabbard. And leather armor wasn't a thing. | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
May 26 2017 17:12 GMT
#31944
One of the funny discussion last year was when people asked where the dogs when during the rescue in first episode. People thought it was bad writing that made the writers forget the dogs exists. When in reality it likely was not wanting to spend the money on special effects to murder like 5 bloodhounds on screen. | ||
Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
May 26 2017 17:44 GMT
#31945
On May 26 2017 22:47 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Hope Littlefinger finally dies this season. I love how sneaky he is, really hope he ends up stabbed by sansa after he tries to make some move to kill john snow. | ||
andrewlt
United States7645 Posts
May 26 2017 22:31 GMT
#31946
On May 27 2017 01:29 Scorch wrote: Show nested quote + On May 26 2017 07:24 andrewlt wrote: Most people in the middle ages barely wore any armor. The nobles who were rich enough to afford what we in the present call real armor had a swordbearer, a spearbearer, a shieldbearer, an armorbearer, you get the point. That's generalizing too much. Someone going to war and expecting to fight would always wear the best armor they could possibly afford, since their life depended on it. The later we get in history, the more affordable armor gets. While it's not clear in which period Game of Thrones plays, it's safe to assume that at that time, pretty much everyone could afford at least a proper gambeson and helmet. The armies we see in Game of Thrones are mostly made up not of peasants, but professional townsguards, soldiers and mercenaries, so one could expect chain maille on them with padding underneath, or even breastplates. By the way, a few more points about historical accuracy in pop culture (also generalizing): the dominant melee weapons on medieval European battlefields were polearms like spears, bills, pikes or halberds. Swords were usually sidearms, i.e. backup or self defense weapons you could conveniently carry around in a scabbard. And leather armor wasn't a thing. Spears and pikes were the dominant melee weapons for most of history. Even in places like Japan that romanticize the katana, the samurai used spears in war. Swords were sidearms for them too. Considering how much GRRM tries for as much realism as possible in a fantasy setting, I doubt he'd be using armor from the period after firearms become available in Europe. Even professional soldiers can only afford simple looking armor that wouldn't stand out much. I'm guessing GoT's time period is the British Isles right after the Norman invasion of England and before the introduction of gunpowder, right around the 12th-13th century. | ||
Ernaine
60 Posts
May 26 2017 22:44 GMT
#31947
We know what Littlefinger wants. We know what Jon wants. But what does Sansa really want? To be save? Jon cannot keep her safe, in her mind. She will want more power. Jon doesn't offer her that. | ||
Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
May 26 2017 22:46 GMT
#31948
On May 27 2017 07:44 Ernaine wrote: Sansa can believe she can use Littlefinger. Rob on the other hand, is of no use to Sansa. They disliked each other strongly during childhood, and they tried to reconcile. But the writers clearly hint at more strife between them. They don't like each other. They don't respect each other. And their goals are different. Clearly, there will be more conflict between Sansa and Rob than between Rob and Sansa. Sure, Littlefinger will want to get rid of Rob. But the writers clearly suggest to us that Littlefinger knows he has to do this through Sansa. Not through some direct confrontation. We know what Littlefinger wants. We know what Rob wants. But what does Sansa really want? To be save? Rob cannot keep her safe, in her mind. She will want more power. Rob doesn't offer her that. Do you mean Jon instead of Robb here? I didn't really think their relationship was established on the show. Jon was shown to be close to Arya and Robb, but little is shown of his relationship to any other character besides Catlyn. | ||
Ernaine
60 Posts
May 27 2017 00:16 GMT
#31949
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TheFish7
United States2824 Posts
May 27 2017 07:15 GMT
#31950
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
May 27 2017 07:27 GMT
#31951
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Dav1oN
Ukraine3159 Posts
May 27 2017 10:15 GMT
#31952
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B.I.G.
3251 Posts
May 27 2017 23:52 GMT
#31953
On May 27 2017 07:31 andrewlt wrote: Show nested quote + On May 27 2017 01:29 Scorch wrote: On May 26 2017 07:24 andrewlt wrote: Most people in the middle ages barely wore any armor. The nobles who were rich enough to afford what we in the present call real armor had a swordbearer, a spearbearer, a shieldbearer, an armorbearer, you get the point. That's generalizing too much. Someone going to war and expecting to fight would always wear the best armor they could possibly afford, since their life depended on it. The later we get in history, the more affordable armor gets. While it's not clear in which period Game of Thrones plays, it's safe to assume that at that time, pretty much everyone could afford at least a proper gambeson and helmet. The armies we see in Game of Thrones are mostly made up not of peasants, but professional townsguards, soldiers and mercenaries, so one could expect chain maille on them with padding underneath, or even breastplates. By the way, a few more points about historical accuracy in pop culture (also generalizing): the dominant melee weapons on medieval European battlefields were polearms like spears, bills, pikes or halberds. Swords were usually sidearms, i.e. backup or self defense weapons you could conveniently carry around in a scabbard. And leather armor wasn't a thing. Spears and pikes were the dominant melee weapons for most of history. Even in places like Japan that romanticize the katana, the samurai used spears in war. Swords were sidearms for them too. Considering how much GRRM tries for as much realism as possible in a fantasy setting, I doubt he'd be using armor from the period after firearms become available in Europe. Even professional soldiers can only afford simple looking armor that wouldn't stand out much. I'm guessing GoT's time period is the British Isles right after the Norman invasion of England and before the introduction of gunpowder, right around the 12th-13th century. Spears were weapons for the poorly trained conscripts of armies because A) Easy, safe, effective (can keep distance, just point and poke, fuck up horses etc.), and B) they were cheap (90% wood with a small iron pokey bit on top). Polearms were later inventions that changed warfare because apart from poking they also had a hook or even a choppy part that could pull down horseman even by an untrained soldier, seriously damaging the efficiency of cavalry especially with the later addition of firearms. Swords (especially longswords as they use in GoT) were very refined weapons that were effective but hard to make and required a lot of training. They were not just sidearms for a simple spearman. Those guys were lucky to have a dagger on the side or something. Armor and weapons were evolving side by side. Chainmail was fairly oldschool while the full metal armor we see knights depicted as wearing was the pinnacle of armor in the middle ages and didn't come into play until like 1300 ~ 1400 something. | ||
Yoav
United States1874 Posts
May 28 2017 00:47 GMT
#31954
On May 27 2017 07:31 andrewlt wrote: Show nested quote + On May 27 2017 01:29 Scorch wrote: On May 26 2017 07:24 andrewlt wrote: Most people in the middle ages barely wore any armor. The nobles who were rich enough to afford what we in the present call real armor had a swordbearer, a spearbearer, a shieldbearer, an armorbearer, you get the point. That's generalizing too much. Someone going to war and expecting to fight would always wear the best armor they could possibly afford, since their life depended on it. The later we get in history, the more affordable armor gets. While it's not clear in which period Game of Thrones plays, it's safe to assume that at that time, pretty much everyone could afford at least a proper gambeson and helmet. The armies we see in Game of Thrones are mostly made up not of peasants, but professional townsguards, soldiers and mercenaries, so one could expect chain maille on them with padding underneath, or even breastplates. By the way, a few more points about historical accuracy in pop culture (also generalizing): the dominant melee weapons on medieval European battlefields were polearms like spears, bills, pikes or halberds. Swords were usually sidearms, i.e. backup or self defense weapons you could conveniently carry around in a scabbard. And leather armor wasn't a thing. Considering how much GRRM tries for as much realism as possible in a fantasy setting, I doubt he'd be using armor from the period after firearms become available in Europe. Even professional soldiers can only afford simple looking armor that wouldn't stand out much. I'm guessing GoT's time period is the British Isles right after the Norman invasion of England and before the introduction of gunpowder, right around the 12th-13th century. I mean, I love GoT, but the arms and armor are all total fantasy. Hardly any characters wear anything that makes even a little sense from a technological or military perspective. Longswords are overwhelmingly dominant and shields nearly non-existent, but hardly anyone wears plate armor, and even then almost always partial, using helmets only in tournaments. The Unsullied would be out-equipped by nearly any band of iron-age warriors. Specifying a time period is a silly exercise beyond saying the politics comes from the War of the Roses. Which is fine... the armor is used to indicate cultural stuff, and shouldn't be taken seriously as armor. The armor is just costuming. | ||
Yoav
United States1874 Posts
May 28 2017 00:54 GMT
#31955
On May 28 2017 08:52 B.I.G. wrote: Show nested quote + On May 27 2017 07:31 andrewlt wrote: On May 27 2017 01:29 Scorch wrote: On May 26 2017 07:24 andrewlt wrote: Most people in the middle ages barely wore any armor. The nobles who were rich enough to afford what we in the present call real armor had a swordbearer, a spearbearer, a shieldbearer, an armorbearer, you get the point. That's generalizing too much. Someone going to war and expecting to fight would always wear the best armor they could possibly afford, since their life depended on it. The later we get in history, the more affordable armor gets. While it's not clear in which period Game of Thrones plays, it's safe to assume that at that time, pretty much everyone could afford at least a proper gambeson and helmet. The armies we see in Game of Thrones are mostly made up not of peasants, but professional townsguards, soldiers and mercenaries, so one could expect chain maille on them with padding underneath, or even breastplates. By the way, a few more points about historical accuracy in pop culture (also generalizing): the dominant melee weapons on medieval European battlefields were polearms like spears, bills, pikes or halberds. Swords were usually sidearms, i.e. backup or self defense weapons you could conveniently carry around in a scabbard. And leather armor wasn't a thing. Spears and pikes were the dominant melee weapons for most of history. Even in places like Japan that romanticize the katana, the samurai used spears in war. Swords were sidearms for them too. Considering how much GRRM tries for as much realism as possible in a fantasy setting, I doubt he'd be using armor from the period after firearms become available in Europe. Even professional soldiers can only afford simple looking armor that wouldn't stand out much. I'm guessing GoT's time period is the British Isles right after the Norman invasion of England and before the introduction of gunpowder, right around the 12th-13th century. Spears were weapons for the poorly trained conscripts of armies because A) Easy, safe, effective (can keep distance, just point and poke, fuck up horses etc.), and B) they were cheap (90% wood with a small iron pokey bit on top). Polearms were later inventions that changed warfare because apart from poking they also had a hook or even a choppy part that could pull down horseman even by an untrained soldier, seriously damaging the efficiency of cavalry especially with the later addition of firearms. Swords (especially longswords as they use in GoT) were very refined weapons that were effective but hard to make and required a lot of training. They were not just sidearms for a simple spearman. Those guys were lucky to have a dagger on the side or something. Armor and weapons were evolving side by side. Chainmail was fairly oldschool while the full metal armor we see knights depicted as wearing was the pinnacle of armor in the middle ages and didn't come into play until like 1300 ~ 1400 something. Spears are better than swords in almost every case, until you're talking full plate armor and then there are lots of polearms that are still better than swords. Try fencing spear+shield or 2h spear vs sword+shield some time... the spear wins almost always if equally skilled. Swords are sidearms, even for nobles. Yes, they are more expensive, but by the eras in question they had become universal. There's a reason almost no armies in history used swords as primary weapons... basically just the Romans, and for them it was a quirk of the comically massive shield they used. | ||
Ernaine
60 Posts
May 28 2017 01:20 GMT
#31956
On May 28 2017 08:52 B.I.G. wrote: Spears were weapons for the poorly trained conscripts of armies because A) Easy, safe, effective (can keep distance, just point and poke, fuck up horses etc.), and B) they were cheap (90% wood with a small iron pokey bit on top). Spears were used because it wins you battles. Range basically trumps anything. Especially squad vs squad. Cheaper weapon means more soldiers. More soldiers trumps less soldiers. Polearms were later inventions that changed warfare because apart from poking they also had a hook or even a choppy part that could pull down horseman even by an untrained soldier, seriously damaging the efficiency of cavalry especially with the later addition of firearms. Polearms are just less good more expensive spears that can do other things. Most specific polearm names can be linked to a certain tool being mounted on a pole. Yes, hooking horsemen was a thing. Swords (especially longswords as they use in GoT) were very refined weapons that were effective but hard to make and required a lot of training. They were not just sidearms for a simple spearman. Those guys were lucky to have a dagger on the side or something. How is a sword more refined than a metal halberd head? And any weapon requires training. In the case that it requires disproportionate amount of training, then maybe it is not an effective weapon? Different unrealistic armor and weapons is fine. Plastic armor is fine. Cutting corners everywhere so you can have millions worth of zombi cgi that I will skip anyway; personally, I think that is a waste. I loved the scenes with Alliser Thorne. But I basically found the The Watchers on the Wall episode unwatchable, as the only thing that happened was fighting. | ||
Yoav
United States1874 Posts
May 28 2017 02:52 GMT
#31957
On May 28 2017 10:20 Ernaine wrote: Show nested quote + On May 28 2017 08:52 B.I.G. wrote: Spears were weapons for the poorly trained conscripts of armies because A) Easy, safe, effective (can keep distance, just point and poke, fuck up horses etc.), and B) they were cheap (90% wood with a small iron pokey bit on top). Spears were used because it wins you battles. Range basically trumps anything. Especially squad vs squad. Cheaper weapon means more soldiers. More soldiers trumps less soldiers. Show nested quote + Polearms were later inventions that changed warfare because apart from poking they also had a hook or even a choppy part that could pull down horseman even by an untrained soldier, seriously damaging the efficiency of cavalry especially with the later addition of firearms. Polearms are just less good more expensive spears that can do other things. Most specific polearm names can be linked to a certain tool being mounted on a pole. Yes, hooking horsemen was a thing. Show nested quote + Swords (especially longswords as they use in GoT) were very refined weapons that were effective but hard to make and required a lot of training. They were not just sidearms for a simple spearman. Those guys were lucky to have a dagger on the side or something. How is a sword more refined than a metal halberd head? And any weapon requires training. In the case that it requires disproportionate amount of training, then maybe it is not an effective weapon? Different unrealistic armor and weapons is fine. Plastic armor is fine. Cutting corners everywhere so you can have millions worth of zombi cgi that I will skip anyway; personally, I think that is a waste. I loved the scenes with Alliser Thorne. But I basically found the The Watchers on the Wall episode unwatchable, as the only thing that happened was fighting. Contemporary usage is to refer to the weapons equally sophisticated to swords as "Poleaxes." The term halberd is used to refer to the simpler, cheaper infantryman's weapon of the same design. | ||
Ernaine
60 Posts
May 28 2017 11:57 GMT
#31958
I am also puzzled why you insist that by definition a halberd is a simpler, cheaper version for something else, used by infantrymen. I am also sure that there are weapons equally sophisticated as sword that we do not call 'poleaxes' or even 'polearns'. | ||
farvacola
United States18768 Posts
May 28 2017 12:02 GMT
#31959
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Nakajin
Canada8774 Posts
May 28 2017 13:22 GMT
#31960
On May 27 2017 16:15 TheFish7 wrote: Littlefinger will be one of the last to die, if he dies at all. He and Varys have been orchestrating things from the very beginning. I am almost 100% sure Sansa is gonna kill him (or at least cause his fall). I don't see how his arc could end otherwise. Probably near the end, my money is on Sansa winning it all, at this point it's a three way race between Dany, John and her and Dany or John winning would be lazy writting, they are probably gonna died in the north. | ||
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