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**TeamLiquid now has a group on what I consider to be the best GPS/logging site out there: Strava. You can join the group here: http://www.strava.com/clubs/Teamliquid**
A thread for all my fellow TL'ers who run. A place to discuss goals, training, racing, motivation; anything related to running. Should be a little easier now that everything won't get lost in all the traffic of one mega-thread.
Useful/Good Articles/Training Concepts
- Beginner/Starting Running
+ Show Spoiler +For those new to running their are a few common mistakes that many people make. The first is just plain doing too much, too soon. A general guideline reference is to increase mileage about 10% per week, with every 3/4 week being a cutback week of maybe 50-75% of the distance you just achieved. Obviously some people can increase much faster than this, and others will get an injury even following these guidelines. For people new to running its safe to add a day per week until your running 6/7 days a week, stay at the previous weeks number of days if that week felt particularly demanding. The other common mistake is running too hard. Perhaps because of PE/sports/etc. their is this mentality of "no pain, no gain" when running. This is wrong. Especially for beginner the key is adjusting to running and finding some enjoyment out of it. This probably won't happen if your hammering every run at 5K pace - 10 seconds. If you EVER have to take a break to walk (and its just not immense fatigue from long distance) your running WAY to hard. To give some basic guidelines if you can RACE a mile in: 5:00 - Normal running @ 7:00-7:45 pace/mile 5:30 - Normal running @ 7:30-8:45 pace/mile 6:00 - Normal running @ 8:15-9:00 pace/mile 6:30 - Normal running @ 9:00-9:45 pace/mile 7:00 - Normal running @ 9:30-10:15 pace/mile 7:30 - Normal running @ 10:15-11:00 pace/mile 8:00 - Normal running @ 11:00-11:45 pace/mile 8:30 - Normal running @ 11:30-12:15 pace/mile 9:00 - Normal running @ 12:15-13:00 pace/mile 10:00 - Normal running @ 13:30-14:15 pace/mile 12:00 - Normal running @ 16:00-17:00 pace/mile For those totally new to running that have been sedentary/non-athletic most their life here is one of the best introductions to running out there: Couch to 5K For those that have maintained a minimal level of activity beyond being sedentary its reasonable to jump in at 3-4 days a week of 3-4 miles. Progressing by adding a day per week until you reach 6 or 7 days per week. Mileage can be increased from there.
- Injuries:
+ Show Spoiler +General recommendation for most injuries is if the pain lessens, and perhaps if its mild and doesn't intensify you can continue to run on it. If the pain increases as you run, definitely stop. Nothing like turning a mild case of achilles tendinitis into a long term case of prolonged achilles tendinosis. You really have to listen to your body on these though. For the non-competitive runner running for fitness, its probably wise to just play it safe and take a a day or two off at any hints of injury. If your training competitively or for an important event then you really just need to try to listen to and judge the injury. Obvious training with anything other than routine soreness runs the risk of turning something minor into something serious, however, if you break training for every possible suggestion of injury you probably won't put together very good blocks of training. Great general listing of possible running injuries, descriptions, and treatments: The Fix: Primer for Running Injuries Not gospel obviously, but can help give you an idea of what may be going on the necessary PT to prevent recurrences.
- Glossary of Running Terms:
+ Show Spoiler +Racing Flat/Flat - Very lightweight shoes designed for long distance racing Trainer - Standard, heavier, and generally more supportive shoe used primarily for training due to wearing out less frequently than thinner racing flats
Easy Run - light run for general aerobic development; usually can converse easily with a partner, breathing rhythm usually around 2/2-3/3. Typically 60-75% of max heart rate. Marathon Pace/M-Pace/Aerobic Threshold Pace - usually fastest aerobic pace, obviously pace at which you could run for a marathon. Approx 40-60 second slower than 5K race pace Tempo/T-Pace Run - A common term that refers to several different run types. Tempo's typically have three popular durations, 20-30 min, 40-60 min, and extended tempos of 60-80 min. Correct pacing is around 5K+20-25 seconds per mile for short ones, 5K+35-40 seconds per mile for the medium, and 5K+50-60 seconds per mile for the longer ones. Reps - Fast track intervals @ around mile race pace w/recovery time twice that of repeat (400m in 75 seconds = 150 second slow jog recovery). Used to build economy at speed and make fast paces seem easier Intervals/V02 Max Interval - Longer repeats at slower pace with less recovery. Usually 1:1 recovery/repeat at around 3K-5K race pace (1200m in 3:30 w/3:30 jog recovery). Long Run - run longer than typical for YOUR mileage. Usually around 20% of weekly mileage (aka runner running 60mpw might run around 11-13 miles for a long run) Fartlek - Swedish for "speed play". A run that can be pretty much whatever a runner wants. Can involve just picking random targets and running as hard as desired toward them and then recovery for however long you want, or can be structured as in 2 min "ON", 2 min "OFF". Strides - Short pickups of about 50-100m done anywhere from 400m-1600m race pace. Serve to "stay in touch" with speed and maintain neuromuscular coordination for fast paces. NOT meant to be hard.
Kick - runners strong finish to the end of a race; crucial to winning championship races which are generally slower and more tactical in nature Tactial Race - typically slower pace, refers to a race in which different runners try to force the race to their strengths. Ex: a super fast runner might want to wait till 100m to go before kicking hard for home, while the slower, but stronger runner might really pick up the pace with 400m+ to go and try to "run the kick out of" the faster runner. Move - An increase in speed to either pass runners, obtain position, or make a move for the win. It's said you get one move in the 800m, 2 in the 1500m, and 3 in the 5000m/10000m Surge - Increase in pace of the race by a runner Stagger - difference in starting places to account for varying radius of the curves in races that are fixed lane or partially fixed lane. Turnover - basically a runners stride, turnover essentially referring to the length and rate of stride Cadence - Steps per minute Mileage - miles run, usually given as a weekly value MPW, mpw - miles per week Raw Speed - Most common measure is an athletes 200m time Speed - Generally refers to top end gear, but for distance runners is often cited as 400m speed. Ex: A world class 800m runner likely has 45-47 second speed V02 Max - measure of maximum oxygen uptake vV02 max - Velocity at V02 Max, lowest speed at which an athlete is at maximum oxygen consumption. Usually occurs between 3K and 5K pace Anaerobic Threshold - inflection point on the lactic acid accumulation curve, at which point blood levels of lacate increase significantly faster. Usually around high end tempo pace, a little slower than 10K pace. Bonk - usually applies to marathon, occurs when a runner goes out to hard and deplets glycogen too soon resulting in a massive increase in speed and major pace drop off Elite - top level runner LSD - long, slow distance Negative Split - last half of race faster than first Overpronate - Higher than normal amount of inward roll of the foot Heelstrike - generally undesirable stride in which the foot lands forward of center of gravity resulting in a braking effect and extra stress Splits - Times at specific distances. Ex: in a 5K might have splits read every K, in a mile splits might be read every 400m World Best - best time for an event without official world records, or a non-ratified world record. Ex: marathon world record is 2:03:59, world best is 2:03:02 World Lead - best time run for an event in that calendar year NR - National Record
- Running Form:
+ Show Spoiler + **All credit for this goes to Airblade Orange. **
Head
Your head and neck should look as if you were standing still as someone was measuring your height and you want to squeeze in every extra millimeter possible. Your head should be up tall and your eyes should be looking straight ahead. It helps to focus on an object in the near distance that you are aiming for. If you are racing stare at the back of a runner a little ahead of you. Do not stare at the ground because it will likely mess up the form of your midsection.
Arms
While you are swinging your arms visualize there is a vertical line in the middle of your chest. Do not cross any part of either arm over to the other side. Also make sure your arms are not swinging too far to the outside on the other side of your body. Keep your arms swinging between your imaginary vertical chest line and your shoulder. Your right arm should be between your right shoulder and the vertical chest line and your left arm should be between your left shoulder and the chest line.
Keep your elbows bent at about 45 degrees. Your elbows should not be doing much bending or straightening as you are running; keep them at close to 45 degrees the whole time.
Maintain stable wrists throughout your movements. Do not bend them in any way.
Keep your hands in a loose fist. If they are too tight you will be using unnecessary energy and if they are too lose you will look like a not as cool T-1000. Maybe if you're a sprinter you can do the T-1000 with your hands completely straight, but not as a distance runner. I like to keep my thumbs on the top and outside of my pointer finger rather than wrapping around a fist. Your thumb will be straight and pointing away from you if you do it this way. Doing it like this helps me focus on keeping a loose hand and straight wrist.
Chest/Back
Your chest should be just as it would be if you were standing still, straight, and tall. Your back will be straight as well. If you find that you are leaning forward, make sure you are looking ahead of you rather than below you. Also, you may have weak abdominal muscles that prevent you from running up straight and tall. I ran like this for the first couple of years when I started because I had no abs.
Hips
Keep your hips underneath you and forward you as if you're banging a hot girl and you're about to ejaculate. Practice this in front of a mirror without a shirt when nobody else is around or someone you are trying to impress IS around. Keeping your hips forward will help your body drive forward.
Legs
This is where most runners tend to need the most work. You should be hitting about 3 strides per second when you are running at a moderately fast to fast pace. This means that your feet are striking the ground at a rate of 3 steps per second. This is the most efficient way to run for distance runners but is difficult and probably not worth doing if you're not running fast (relative to your own ability). But the next time you are running faster, whether it's a tempo run, strides, or whatever, try this out. Count how many steps you take in 10 seconds. How close is it to 30? You probably need to be taking more and shorter steps.
Pick up your feet as soon as they hit the ground. It sounds obvious but really make an effort to think about this as you are running. The longer your feet stay on the ground the more momentum you are losing. Keep them legs moving fast and forward. Try running in place with this principle in mind.
Pick up your feet higher than where you perceive your knee to be. While some people (usually old people) prefer the marathon shuffle, keeping your legs moving in a more circular manner, you can increase your efficiency as long as you use all of these leg tips together. Just go watch some videos of elite distance runners to get a visual or this or anything else being described. Most elites have excellent form, specifically in the beginning of races before they get too tired. This is another technique that is difficult to do unless you are running fast. But when you are running fast this will make you fast AND smooth.
This last tip can be debated but I'll lay it down anyway. Strike the ground with your mid foot. Heel striking is very common and the normal way most people run when they slip on running shoes. This is interesting because if you run barefoot you will be mid foot striking. Try it out. I am a believer in the benefits of barefoot and minimalist shoe training, but that is a topic for another time. I still think a mid foot strike to be the best bet here. Not only is it the most natural way for humans to run but it also keeps your feet on the ground for less time. Remember that you are fighting inertia and need to keep your feet off the ground and your legs driving forward.
American<->SI Pace Conversion Tool (credit: Malinor) + Show Spoiler +
List of TLer Training Logs: + Show Spoiler +
TL Members 2016 Goals/Progress: Feel free to post up your goals for upcoming year, season, target race, etc. I will keep them updated.
+ Show Spoiler +
*Added a section to the OP for training logs. If you log your running online in an accessible form feel free to post your log up and I will add them to the OP.*
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Well, looking at 2017 in review I don't have too much to say about it. I got into some absolutely crazy shape by March, by making some pretty drastic changes in the structure of my training....but never got to do anything with it. A small crash didn't help but then school got in in the way, and by May I'd lost that condition and was too busy to be able to get it back.
Not unhappy with the year, as school is the priority, but it certainly had the potential to be a great year.
2018 I can't honestly say I have any major goals as it all revolves around school. I'd be pretty happy looking back on the year if I stayed in what I consider good enough shape to race and got in 5-10 races. Basically maintaining a decent level of fitness and biding my time till 2019 when school should start to ease.
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Only one post in this, the most important annual thread on TL? Not if I have anything to say about it!
2017 was a tough year for me. I kept jumping the gun and trying to come back from my Achilles injury too fast. This was a dumb move that prolonged my running hiatus. When I finally got back to running in August, it was too late to do much in the way of actual racing. I've spent the four months since getting back into shape and thinking about 2018.
My biggest goal for this year is to see the big picture and to not run like an idiot. Real improvement comes from years of consistent, injury-free training, not going hell-for-leather in the short term. I want to do everything I can do avoid injury and enjoy running, even if that means pulling out of a workout or stopping doubles or whatever if my body doesn't feel right.
As far as races go, I have a few on tap.
The first is the Race for the Whales, an 11.5 mile road race in Maui in February. I chose it because I'm going to Hawaii for a vacation then and I wanted something to test the fitness I've been building since August. Plus, I've never raced 11.5 miles before, so whatever I do will be a PB. I'm hoping this will help me stay positive by not comparing my performance to what I could do pre-injury.
Second race is a leg of the Sinister Seven Ultra marathon in Alberta this summer. I run this as part of a relay team that usually wins the race. It's a great, fun weekend, though the actual running is a total suffer-fest. (Mountains are the worst.) Missing it last year was a real bummer. Can't wait for another great weekend with the boys!
The third race I'm thinking of is some kind of fall marathon. It might be Edmonton, which is in late August, or it might be something else. I have no idea what would be reasonable to think of for a time here. Something under 2:40 at the very least, maybe sub-2:35 if things are really going well.
We'll see what we shall see, I guess.
Who else is out there dreaming of lactic acid these days?
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Glad to see you're moving in the right direction Bonham. You couldn't be more right about the consistency piece. Lots of people put in a great cycle or great year, but for getting truly quality results it comes from years of consistent work.
For right now my training's getting rolling. Unfortunately school starts in a week so we shall see what happens. The approach right now I guess is try and get school into a really solid place by March, and then see about racing the collegiate season Mar-May, school permitting.
Regardless of that, I'd like to do some racing late summer at the worst (if school totally torpedoes training), or some of our big late spring/early summer classics if I'm able to hold onto fitness.
Guess the main focus right now more than anything is getting unfat from my fall lifting. Let me tell ya boyz, cycling (uphill anyway) doesn't work for shit when you weight close 80kg as a 5'8" guy. Not a big deal for flat races but I live in Colorado so most of the best races are somewhat hilly.
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On January 12 2018 03:47 L_Master wrote: Guess the main focus right now more than anything is getting unfat from my fall lifting. Let me tell ya boyz, cycling (uphill anyway) doesn't work for shit when you weight close 80kg as a 5'8" guy. Not a big deal for flat races but I live in Colorado so most of the best races are somewhat hilly.
Weightlifting is evil! I knew it!
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On January 12 2018 06:03 Bonham wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2018 03:47 L_Master wrote: Guess the main focus right now more than anything is getting unfat from my fall lifting. Let me tell ya boyz, cycling (uphill anyway) doesn't work for shit when you weight close 80kg as a 5'8" guy. Not a big deal for flat races but I live in Colorado so most of the best races are somewhat hilly. Weightlifting is evil! I knew it!
More the eating to make that lifting really work
That said, I continue to have the personal experience that strength training isn't that valuable for running or cycling performance, outside of some potential sprint benefits.
Still possible that the kind of training I'm doing isn't what would be best for endurance sports, but I'm pretty doubtful doing a bunch of light reps would be more beneficial that just...actually running.
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8716 Posts
That said, I continue to have the personal experience that strength training isn't that valuable for running or cycling performance, outside of some potential sprint benefits. For running, there's a bit of a performance benefit to supplementary strength training because normal running training doesn't stimulate all of the muscles that eventually get used in a race. As the primary running muscles get tired and form is threatening to break down in the final portion of a race, the strength of the "auxiliary" muscles becomes key to finishing strong. It's not feasible to develop these auxiliary muscles just by running because they aren't recruited until the primary muscles are failing and it's not good to train to failure like that. So runners have to turn to strength training that specifically targets those muscles. The way you might notice the benefit of a good cycle of strength training is being able to stay unusually strong and smooth at the end of a race.
And then the other benefit of strength training is injury prevention.
Not sure about cycling though. It seems like the bike forces the cycling motion to be more static as opposed to running form which can really start to change as certain muscles get tired and form naturally adjusts so that other muscles can begin to compensate.
edit: I should also mention though that some elite coaches don't have their athletes do any weight training at all, opting for hill sprints instead. But they're definitely at least also doing some drills, stretches, and other exercises that lightly train the "auxiliary" muscles in addition to hill sprints. They just don't specifically hit the weight room and do olympic lifts etc.
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On January 16 2018 06:21 NonY wrote:Show nested quote +That said, I continue to have the personal experience that strength training isn't that valuable for running or cycling performance, outside of some potential sprint benefits. For running, there's a bit of a performance benefit to supplementary strength training because normal running training doesn't stimulate all of the muscles that eventually get used in a race. As the primary running muscles get tired and form is threatening to break down in the final portion of a race, the strength of the "auxiliary" muscles becomes key to finishing strong. It's not feasible to develop these auxiliary muscles just by running because they aren't recruited until the primary muscles are failing and it's not good to train to failure like that. So runners have to turn to strength training that specifically targets those muscles. The way you might notice the benefit of a good cycle of strength training is being able to stay unusually strong and smooth at the end of a race. And then the other benefit of strength training is injury prevention. Not sure about cycling though. It seems like the bike forces the cycling motion to be more static as opposed to running form which can really start to change as certain muscles get tired and form naturally adjusts so that other muscles can begin to compensate. edit: I should also mention though that some elite coaches don't have their athletes do any weight training at all, opting for hill sprints instead. But they're definitely at least also doing some drills, stretches, and other exercises that lightly train the "auxiliary" muscles in addition to hill sprints. They just don't specifically hit the weight room and do olympic lifts etc. Weight lifting for distance runners is one of those subjects that has a lot of conflicting opinions.
What worked well for me was training heavy (up to 3 reps for 5 sets during the toughest training cycle) 2x a week after refueling after a hard running workout. I think injury prevention is huge here but as someone who didn't have much speed I think doing heavy squats and reverse hypers helped me gain speed for my workouts. When I ran better workouts I ran faster races.
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I don't believe weightlifting was very helpful at all for my cycling. I used to work out a lot, then did both for a while, and then I stopped working out completely, and that's when I had the most cycling progress. I'm sure it depends on the program, but my bro science view on it is that your body can only repair a certain amount of cells in your sleep, and so when it's having to repair slow twitch muscles as well as slow twitch muscles, it wont heal them as well as if it was only healing one. Therefore you can't get as good at both at the same time.
As for me, last year I didn't get to go on too many adventures at all. My work has been keeping me in good shape, but I've just been so busy that I didn't do much of it. This year I'm hoping to do the Mount Temple + Eiffel Peak double scramble in one day (3000m elevation gain and 3000m elevation drop, 42km total length). I'd also like to attempt the Calgary - Highway Pass (highest paved road in Canada) loop, 300km... I'm at about the same weight as last time I completed it, but I'm heavier, so we'll see. I haven't been biking as much recently, so those 300km will take me a good 12-14 hours. Lastly I'd like to compete in the Mount Revelstoke Steamer on August 27th, a 26km 5.6% climb (yeah, no TdF climb, but most difficult one in Canada). I went skiing there during Christmas for 4 days, and it's beautiful.
I'll be aiming for 60km a week average of cycling, it's not much, but 150km get draining too quickly, especially with my job, it's just too tough to maintain. I always push hard, so it should let me stay in decent shape for these events.
Looking forward to seeing your progress this year Nony, your half marathon times have been interesting to follow. Hope everyone stays healthy!
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I was never a fan of distance running, because my endurance was pretty bad my whole life. My PR for mile is 6:39 in 8th grade during PE, when we did timed mile, and I still haven't broken that. But starting last July (July of 2017), I decided to run a little bit every week, like a mile a day or sometimes 3 miles, just so I could improve my endurance. (I was annoyed at how quickly I was getting tired when lifting some weights)
At first, running a 8 min mile made me feel like I was going to collapse and throw up at the end, but somehow, I was pretty semi-consistent in running almost every week. Fast forward half a year, I can now run 15:00 2 mile and high 6 min one mile (still haven't broken 6:39 yet, but I did run 6:42 not too long ago). It's really crazy to think that after feeling so beat up after running a 8 min mile 6 months ago, I can now run two miles in 7:30/mile pace without feeling like absolute shit at the end. Obviously, this isn't fast by the standards of serious runners. I looked up the times that my classmates in high school who did cross country ran back in high school, and they were running crazy stuff like 17min 3 mile and mid to high 4 min 1 mile. I have no ambition of reaching that kind of level in running, but it would be nice though if I can run a sub-6 mile for the 1st time in my life.
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On February 07 2018 01:02 don_kyuhote wrote: I was never a fan of distance running, because my endurance was pretty bad my whole life. My PR for mile is 6:39 in 8th grade during PE, when we did timed mile, and I still haven't broken that. But starting last July (July of 2017), I decided to run a little bit every week, like a mile a day or sometimes 3 miles, just so I could improve my endurance. (I was annoyed at how quickly I was getting tired when lifting some weights)
At first, running a 8 min mile made me feel like I was going to collapse and throw up at the end, but somehow, I was pretty semi-consistent in running almost every week. Fast forward half a year, I can now run 15:00 2 mile and high 6 min one mile (still haven't broken 6:39 yet, but I did run 6:42 not too long ago). It's really crazy to think that after feeling so beat up after running a 8 min mile 6 months ago, I can now run two miles in 7:30/mile pace without feeling like absolute shit at the end. Obviously, this isn't fast by the standards of serious runners. I looked up the times that my classmates in high school who did cross country ran back in high school, and they were running crazy stuff like 17min 3 mile and mid to high 4 min 1 mile. I have no ambition of reaching that kind of level in running, but it would be nice though if I can run a sub-6 mile for the 1st time in my life.
Those two statements are pretty opposite. 6:40 for the mile as an 8th grader who isn't running is quite fast.
You can absolutely break 6, and probably within the next 3-6 months if your smart with your training and aren't carrying around a ton more weight than you were back then. What are you currently doing as far as training?
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Well running sub-7 mile that one time in 8th grade was more of a one time thing, because I didn't break sub-7 min after that for many years. But yes, I was not the slower guy among my peers, but I don't think I would consider myself a fast guy back then either. I remember that the guys who were in soccer teams or did other sports in middle school were running sub-6 mile pretty easily.
As far as training, I haven't really researched any training programs. I have no distance running background at all and never did cross country or anything during middle/high school or after that. Right now, I alternate between 2 things: 1. running (or jogging lol) for about 50 min 2. running 2 miles as fast as I can, then walk for like 20 min to recuperate, and then running the 3rd mile as fast as I can. I am definitely open to any and all suggestions from more experienced runners.
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I'm in the same boat, but I run 5k a few times a week at least. I've been steadily increasing the pace I keep on a treadmill just to up what I consider my regular pace.
A year and a half ago I was running 6mph for 30 min, now I can keep 8 min miles up easy. I can do sub 7:30s but haven't pushed past that much.
I'm looking forward to trying to hit some PRs not on a treadmill once it thaws out.
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On February 07 2018 03:19 don_kyuhote wrote: Well running sub-7 mile that one time in 8th grade was more of a one time thing, because I didn't break sub-7 min after that for many years. But yes, I was not the slower guy among my peers, but I don't think I would consider myself a fast guy back then either. I remember that the guys who were in soccer teams or did other sports in middle school were running sub-6 mile pretty easily.
As far as training, I haven't really researched any training programs. I have no distance running background at all and never did cross country or anything during middle/high school or after that. Right now, I alternate between 2 things: 1. running (or jogging lol) for about 50 min 2. running 2 miles as fast as I can, then walk for like 20 min to recuperate, and then running the 3rd mile as fast as I can. I am definitely open to any and all suggestions from more experienced runners.
What pace are you running those 50' runs at?
The easy runs are good to do, but the main thing you would benefit from (assuming you enjoy this sort of thing and want to get faster) is some more structure to your training. Going out and hammering two miles and then a miles isn't very effective. It's a max effort, and it's impossible to consistently better max efforts on a weekly basis. So you end up doing the same workout over and over...and your body is already capable of that workout, so even though it's hard you're not putting a new challenge on your body and it doesn't adapt.
You're newer, so start simple. A good example might be:
Mon: OFF Tue: 3x8' at Threshold (about 90% of 5k pace, 85% of 3k pace, "comfortably hard") Wed: 3-4M VERY Easy (50-65% of 5k/3k pace, or around 11-12 min mile pace) Thur: 4 x (3' ON w/1' recovery shuffle jog, ON's starting at 8:00 pace) Fri: OFF Sat: 6M run, middle 20' at strong aerobic pace (likely around 9:00 pace) Sun: OFF or easy 3-4M
This would progress by adding duration to the Tuesday and Saturday workouts, and gradually increasing the speed of the 3' Thursday repeats. The Saturday run will naturally become longer in distance as the middle portion becomes longer.
Training Talk/Rationale Section:
+ Show Spoiler +Best way to train is a combination of easy runs, longer/aerobic runs, and interval work. For most new runners, aerobic strength is the weak point. Some effective ways to work on this would be:
- 3x10 min continuous run about 8:15 pace. This pace should be "comfortably hard". It should feel like you're cruising fast and breathing heavy, but you're not murdering yourself to do it. This could then progress the next week to 3x11', then 3x12' then 3x13', etc. Pace doesn't get faster, but you extend the duration. 3-5 min very easy jog or walk recovery between the repeats.
- Another one I really like is 3' ON/1' OFF. For that, you use something a little slower than 5k pace, so for you that might be somewhere between 7:45-8:00 pace. So you'd run 3:00 at 8' pace, then 1' of easy jog. Start at 4 repeats, and build to 7 or 8. From there, try to run just a bit faster each time. Did 7:45 the workout before? Do 7:43 pace this workout.
- The other one that is really good is extending the length of long steady runs. So you might start with a 40 min run, where the first 10' and last 10' are easy warm up and warm down. The middle 20' would be at a steady, aerobic pace (a little slower than that comfortably hard pace I described above, usually around 40-60 s/mile slower than 5k pace). Then you keep extending the length of that, so next week it might be 25', then 30', then 35' etc. The key here is that it is an extension in duration, and not in pace. If you feel amazing, don't run faster...run longer.
The main principles I would say when you're newer are
- Start easy and work your way into it. This reduces injury risk, and gives you somewhere to progress to. Right now, you probably could go on the track and run 7x3' ON at 7:15 pace, jogging easy for a minute in between, and finish the workout. However, it would be extremely hard, and where do you go after that? If you were already pegged at 7:15, there is no way you're going to be able to go 7:13 or 7:10 next week. Starting conservative, both in duration and intensity, is smart - ABP. Always Be Pushing. It's going to sound contradictory to the above, but the body adapts fast. Once you've done a workout, you're body is capable of it. Doing it again doesn't really drive new stimulus and adaptation. The changes don't have to, and shouldn't be, dramatic. But each workout you should be looking to either lengthen the total worktime, or the speed of the repeats. Doing the same workout over and over usually works for a month or two, but then you soon adapt and remain at the same level. The key here is that if you go out and run 3x10' at a certain pace, then say "ah that wasn't so bad, I'll do 3x20' next week", you'll get in trouble. That's a huge jump, and it's unsustainable. Always progress workouts, but that progression can be gentle. -Think aerobically. This is always the biggest weakness for newer endurance athletes. There is a time and place for gut wrenching, acid inducing 400m repeats...but that's not now. Get generally "stronger" (in endurance lingo this refers to aerobic capacity) for at least several months. Even an event like the mile is over 80% aerobic in nature. Not only will this bring the best improvements, it also strengthens recovery and work capacity so that when it comes time for the hard, super fast stuff to put the icing on the cake you can handle more of it and recover more effectively.
FYI: There are very few kids running sub 6, especially in middle school. There might be 2-3 kids on a soccer team in MS that could go sub 6. Of course, they are the ones you hear about. Moreover, these kids in soccer or other sports are getting a good deal of running and speed training through their sport. There is a big difference between a soccer kid going sub 6 and a sedentary person going sub 6.
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As for myself, so far the training is going well, but we are starting to hit that point in the semester where things might ramp up and send that all to hell. On top of my stuff for the moment though.
Weight has gone from 80kg down to 74.5kg, so I'm working my way back down to sanity. 70kg or so is where I've done most of my racing, so if I can eat well over the next month or so I'll be in a position to think about doing some quality racing and challenging old PRs.
Fitness is coming better than expected. Workouts are progressing very well, and so far it's been mapped out to where I haven't been overdoing anything and missing/failing workouts. I guess it's that old "Easier to get back what you built up before". Metabolically, I seem to be a little ahead of where I was last year at this time, which is exciting because the engine was in fantastic shape last winter. I am however, not being so stupid with school, so my long endurance/volume is a bit lower (around 600TSS/8-10 hours for training weeks, as opposed to 13-15 hours/800-1000TSS last winter)...but that shouldn't be a major deal given races until Pro-1-2 category are primarily 1-2 hours.
Next 6 weeks will be pretty decisive for spring race getting back into killer shape, but we'll see how it goes. In an ideal world, I'd get down to mid/high 60kg range, race hard in the Spring, do a big endurance cycle on the bike and hit some of the hill climbs + Boulder stage race in the fall, and then take a crack at running in the fall.
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I don't time my pace that closely when I run for 50ish minutes, but I would assume anywhere along the lines of 9:30~10min per mile pace. Just any pace that wouldn't make me feel exhausted while I'm running. Thanks though, and I will definitely check out the program you're suggesting.
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Raced 11.5 miles in a hair under 67 minutes yesterday at the Race For The Whales in Maui. The course was tough, but it wasn't as hot as I feared it might be. I placed second, being unable to catch an evil Minnesotan wearing Vaporflies.
My time was slower than I hoped but faster than I feared. This was my slowest half marathon-type race in over five years. It really brought home how far I have to go to get back to where I was pre-injury.
The good news is both my Achilles tendons felt good throughout, and the fire still burns. I can't stop thinking about my next race and what I'm going to do to get faster. Right now I'm thinking about a 10-mile course in my hometown. Race is on April 22. It's a figure-eight course with lots of hills and twists. I ran 57 minutes there two years ago in the middle of a 180k week of training, so I think trying to beat that time or at least get within spitting distance of it would be a good goal.
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On February 12 2018 04:28 Bonham wrote: Raced 11.5 miles in a hair under 67 minutes yesterday at the Race For The Whales in Maui. The course was tough, but it wasn't as hot as I feared it might be. I placed second, being unable to catch an evil Minnesotan wearing Vaporflies.
My time was slower than I hoped but faster than I feared. This was my slowest half marathon-type race in over five years. It really brought home how far I have to go to get back to where I was pre-injury.
The good news is both my Achilles tendons felt good throughout, and the fire still burns. I can't stop thinking about my next race and what I'm going to do to get faster. Right now I'm thinking about a 10-mile course in my hometown. Race is on April 22. It's a figure-eight course with lots of hills and twists. I ran 57 minutes there two years ago in the middle of a 180k week of training, so I think trying to beat that time or at least get within spitting distance of it would be a good goal.
Did you lose by 4% though?
Glad to hear you're healthy! For a tough course I'd say that's not a terrible pace coming back from injury. Might be in position to threaten PRs again over the latter half of the year if all goes well!
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HELLO, Running Thread 2018!
2017 was a crazy sort of year for me, lots of life changes and lack of follow-through on my goals (not always 100% my fault, kinda had to roll with life as it came). My goals posted at the beginning of 2017 were largely unmet: Boston was a pretty epic failure, Hell Week was aborted after one of the more silly run attempts and subsequent bonks of my life, I did not secure employment in a reasonable amount of time, and I did not host any running stuff around Dreamhack Denver (which was awesome anyway). Finally, near the end of the year: I did sprint finish the Rattlesnake Ramble for an 3rd place age-group prize! Wooo.
You'd think, after that sort of year, I'd be a bit unhappy with myself. Honestly, right now Life is Good. I'm staying home with my toddler daughter, and have finally figured out how to grab some miles during nap-times. My wife took my employment status as an opportunity and is now (luckily, thankfully) back in the workforce as a kick-ass data scientist.
GOALS FOR 2018 1) Be a better person! This includes being more or wholly present for my daughter and just having daily fun with toddler activities, trying to read more, learn new languages (Java & French), keep the household rolling along well re: nutrition, organization, improvements.
2) Be a better runner! I need to learn how to be a bit more consistent (figuring out that nap laps work is a huge boon here), trying to get up to 6 days per week running, up above 50 miles/week consistently, maybe mix in some core strength and trail/technical runs in as able.
3) Be a (better?) ultrarunner! I am a bit of poser, honestly. I love the people in RMR, I love the garish green garb, and I like trail runs <20 miles long, but I've only ever done one distance greater than a marathon. This (2015 Dirty Thirty) was a very hard race, just kinda crushed me, and so *of course* on my 32nd birthday I signed up for Quad Rock 50 Mile this May.
Running remains a pillar of my life - keeps my body and mind both mostly happy, and makes the rest of the daily/weekly/life challenges seem pretty darn approachable. Hearing about (and seeing on Strava) all ya'lls miles is always fun, and helps get my shoes on to meet goal #2.
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Man, you know what's wild? Specificity of adaptation.
I've started doing some unweighted squats and lunges a few times a week. I'm told that there's lots of good evidence that some strength work like this is great for injury prevention in runners, and it has lots of other health benefits too. I'm planning to add a small amount of weight once I get the motions down and build up some strength.
Thing is, my legs are already getting sore! I thought they were reasonably strong, being able to carry me on a 20 mile run without much difficulty. But after three sets of 10 unweighted squats, they're like "Whoa, man, I need a breather!"
The human body is a odd thing.
On February 14 2018 04:55 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2018 04:28 Bonham wrote: Raced 11.5 miles in a hair under 67 minutes yesterday at the Race For The Whales in Maui. The course was tough, but it wasn't as hot as I feared it might be. I placed second, being unable to catch an evil Minnesotan wearing Vaporflies.
My time was slower than I hoped but faster than I feared. This was my slowest half marathon-type race in over five years. It really brought home how far I have to go to get back to where I was pre-injury.
The good news is both my Achilles tendons felt good throughout, and the fire still burns. I can't stop thinking about my next race and what I'm going to do to get faster. Right now I'm thinking about a 10-mile course in my hometown. Race is on April 22. It's a figure-eight course with lots of hills and twists. I ran 57 minutes there two years ago in the middle of a 180k week of training, so I think trying to beat that time or at least get within spitting distance of it would be a good goal.
Did you lose by 4% though? Glad to hear you're healthy! For a tough course I'd say that's not a terrible pace coming back from injury. Might be in position to threaten PRs again over the latter half of the year if all goes well!
Haha, haven't done the math. I consoled myself with the thought that if we'd been racing before my injury, I would have dusted him no problem. This is a sure sign I'm over the hill, right?
On February 16 2018 02:52 mtmentat wrote: HELLO, Running Thread 2018!
Hello mtmentat! Great to hear you're back at it and bringing good vibes. Can't say I share your obsession with ultras, but I look forward to hearing about your adventures. Keep on rockin' in the free world, my dude.
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