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Link: https://drop.sc/replay/7844275
Hey, I'm platinum league across the board, and I've gone back to trying to play Zerg. Out of all the races, they're definitely the one I'm least confident playing as. I'm never hugely sure of what I should be doing. I've kept my mmr level with Terran, Protoss, and Random despite this.
In this match, the opponent accused me of cheesing him. In the moment I denied this, but that was mostly just because he was kind of being a dick, and there was some instinct there to rebuke him no matter what he said.
But I don't actually know that he was wrong.
I dropped a bunch of lings into his main before switching focus on making drones again. The match ended shortly afterword however since I managed a full sweep of his worker count, and had enough lings/queens left over to deal with what was left of his army. A big part of the reason the attack worked well was that he was moving out when the lings landed.
However, if this is a cheese, and I can't realistically expect to hold a longer game doing this, I'd rather avoid the strategy. I just thought it was a nice aggressive opening to score some worker kills and threaten my opponent with before focusing on saturating my second base.
Is this guy right about this attack being untenable in the long run?
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Ling drops are a great thing to mix into standard play, but what you've done in this game is absolutely allin. For reference, at 5 minutes you have 23 drones, whereas to defend a 2-1-1 at that timing you have to have 50 drones + 30 lings. You also made 4 drop overlords, usually a harassment ling drop would only make one or two.
There's no shame in playing allin/cheesy builds, but you should be aware that if you exclusively play these sorts of builds a big part of the fun/difficulty of SC2 is unavailable to you. You seem to be aware of this, so instead you should probably pick any of the guides that are available (PiG probably has a bunch) and practice one of the macro builds. You'll probably die a lot, but it's way easier to learn how to drone as a zerg then learn how to respond than vice versa
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Thanks. I'll try lighter ling drops while making more drones.
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A 4:45 drop can be called cheese? The terran player had basically no units anyways at that point in time, so you can barely call this an allin. You can play cheese or all ins all the way to the GM, so just play the way you want to. Every player has different strengths and weaknesses.
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cheese is a word people made up to mean "attacks that come earlier than i'm ready to defend them". the viability of "cheese" is not a constant, it depends entirely on the strategy and how much you're able to get out of it. the key is understanding your goals/minimum damage and having a feel for your transitions/what you're vulnerable to if the game doesn't end
it's true that you can make masters by just improving your macro and playing tight and standard, but that's not everyone's player profile and there's no reason you have to play that way
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cheese means doing something that will give u great advantage/out right win the game, but have some fatal weaknesses in the build. For example, a triple hatch before pool on catalyst in pvz is a cheese which will give u great advantage if your opponent dont know how to stop it i.e. where the fatal weakness are. Your ling drop hits at 5 minutes with 23 drone. if your opponent defend properly, you lose. That is a cheese where your fatal weakness is that if you dont do any damage, you lose.
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On July 11 2018 00:03 samchan1331 wrote: cheese means doing something that will give u great advantage/out right win the game, but have some fatal weaknesses in the build. For example, a triple hatch before pool on catalyst in pvz is a cheese which will give u great advantage if your opponent dont know how to stop it i.e. where the fatal weakness are. Your ling drop hits at 5 minutes with 23 drone. if your opponent defend properly, you lose. That is a cheese where your fatal weakness is that if you dont do any damage, you lose.
an attack is an attack. it doesn't matter if you attack at 5 minutes with 23 drones or at 20 minutes with 80 drones, you win the game by attacking your opponent. if a GM plays a standard "macro" timing attack off 3 bases a gold league player will think it was a "cheese" because he won't understand how there are so many units. cheese means nothing
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On July 11 2018 04:35 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2018 00:03 samchan1331 wrote: cheese means doing something that will give u great advantage/out right win the game, but have some fatal weaknesses in the build. For example, a triple hatch before pool on catalyst in pvz is a cheese which will give u great advantage if your opponent dont know how to stop it i.e. where the fatal weakness are. Your ling drop hits at 5 minutes with 23 drone. if your opponent defend properly, you lose. That is a cheese where your fatal weakness is that if you dont do any damage, you lose.
an attack is an attack. it doesn't matter if you attack at 5 minutes with 23 drones or at 20 minutes with 80 drones, you win the game by attacking your opponent. if a GM plays a standard "macro" timing attack off 3 bases a gold league player will think it was a "cheese" because he won't understand how there are so many units. cheese means nothing
Not sure why you despise the word cheese so much. I think the other players are right to tell him that his attack could be considered as cheese especially if his post was already directed at finding out of it was cheesy or not as much.
Considering standard play an attack that would leave you with 23 workers at 5 minutes would be considered cheesy cause if you didn't do considerable damage with it you'd surely be unable to win the game going further.
Note noone accused him of being a cheeser they all just answered his question. While he could play that drop strategy over and over again to probably good success he'd then be stuck playing against players that would most likely destroy him in any aspect of the game leaving him with a crappy feeling and a bad spot on the ladder for upcoming games.
On the positive he could really try to time these drops as he scouts his opponent moving out in a smaller scale as he already stated himself to add a nice tactic to his arsenal.
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On July 11 2018 04:35 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2018 00:03 samchan1331 wrote: cheese means doing something that will give u great advantage/out right win the game, but have some fatal weaknesses in the build. For example, a triple hatch before pool on catalyst in pvz is a cheese which will give u great advantage if your opponent dont know how to stop it i.e. where the fatal weakness are. Your ling drop hits at 5 minutes with 23 drone. if your opponent defend properly, you lose. That is a cheese where your fatal weakness is that if you dont do any damage, you lose.
an attack is an attack. it doesn't matter if you attack at 5 minutes with 23 drones or at 20 minutes with 80 drones, you win the game by attacking your opponent. if a GM plays a standard "macro" timing attack off 3 bases a gold league player will think it was a "cheese" because he won't understand how there are so many units. cheese means nothing
Lol if you are attacking as Zerg at 5 minutes with 23 drones it is indeed pretty damn cheesy.
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