Also, I'd like to be a part of it as well. Think I've got quite ok eSports knowledge in general, I've also got quite a lot of experience when it comes to customer experience, programming and business processes.
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arew
Lithuania1861 Posts
Also, I'd like to be a part of it as well. Think I've got quite ok eSports knowledge in general, I've also got quite a lot of experience when it comes to customer experience, programming and business processes. | ||
retina
Korea (South)7 Posts
https://skywarriorthemes.com/arcane/tournament/winter-games-finals/ https://themeforest.net/item/arcane-the-gaming-community-theme/17400106 | ||
sM.Zik
Canada2542 Posts
Latest version of bwchart works with SC:R, i use it all the time | ||
BigFan
TLADT24917 Posts
On September 10 2018 22:54 Navane wrote: I totally share where you're coming from. There is a lack of centered bw content. We used to be first citizens on TL, now we're second rate citizens of a second rate game. However, on liquipedia there is still a nice separate bw section. Maybe you could start something on there? Wiki is just another template like wordpress, and I'm sure the ppl who run it are more than willing to help you set another page up there. That way you could kickstart your idea without loosing the vast archive that has been build up in the past. I'm not sure where you see this. It's true that prior to SCII's release, TL was purely BW and that's not the case anymore, but the amount of work and attention that BW is getting is just as much as the past. If you took a look at the FP just yesterday, before the latest SCII build article, you would've seen that BW occupied 3/4 spots and this doesn't include the other two articles on that page, nor the fact that there's 4 different BW articles/blogs/threads being spotlighted. This month alone, there's been 6 writeups already. Yes, it would be cool if TL was purely BW, but it should be obvious why that can't be the case at this point. On that note, this is mostly targeting the idea that BW posters are second rate citizens of a second rate game on TL which is far from the truth. I can tell you that admins from the past that are still active still love the game and are very supportive/receptive to ideas etc... As for this portal idea, LP is always open for edits and has always been since its inception so it should be pretty easy to edit an article there, adding any videos made that explain things indepth etc... | ||
Qikz
United Kingdom12010 Posts
On September 13 2018 11:29 BigFan wrote: I'm not sure where you see this. It's true that prior to SCII's release, TL was purely BW and that's not the case anymore, but the amount of work and attention that BW is getting is just as much as the past. If you took a look at the FP just yesterday, before the latest SCII build article, you would've seen that BW occupied 3/4 spots and this doesn't include the other two articles on that page, nor the fact that there's 4 different BW articles/blogs/threads being spotlighted. This month alone, there's been 6 writeups already. Yes, it would be cool if TL was purely BW, but it should be obvious why that can't be the case at this point. On that note, this is mostly targeting the idea that BW posters are second rate citizens of a second rate game on TL which is far from the truth. I can tell you that admins from the past that are still active still love the game and are very supportive/receptive to ideas etc... As for this portal idea, LP is always open for edits and has always been since its inception so it should be pretty easy to edit an article there, adding any videos made that explain things indepth etc... The reason why people feel BW isn't cared about anymore is the fact that for ages people like Artosis and Incontrol were calling for something like another TSL, but it's never going to happen. Sayle organised and I helped cast the TL Opens, but that was never going to be enough and that was purely the liquipedia team that made that happen. I know you're not in a situation to comment on the lack of a TSL, but that was a huge, huge missed opportunity from TL to show they still cared about the community. The forums are a husk of what they used to be, but that could be due to the lack of people using forums anymore. I think the calls to make a new centralised location might be a little missguided, but I think as long as we as a community do our best to get everyone on social media and reddit sharing BW content then it should be a fairly good start. At the end of the day it doesn't matter where that is hosted, it's more about getting on top of the SEO of BW content. I've recently set up an STPL twitter to help this and I'm going to do my best to get as many BW people involved in sharing BW content on twitter as possible. That's where the modern world congregates. Youtube, Twitter, Reddit, Facebook and Instagram. Forums are sadly a still much loved but relic of the past. The big issue we have with TL is the fact there's a lot of people that have come and gone over the years and they won't come back here. Look at some of the veteran posters who don't post here anymore for examples of this. They don't like the direction TL took. Even people like Artosis complains about TL. They're a corporation at the end of the day and BW is just what they started with, they have a lot more games and a lot more people interested in other games. Purely on a monetary basis BW isn't important even if the admins still love the game, it's not financially viable to chase it as much. A new portal/location could bring a lot of those older people back. A new face is an important aspect, but I still think social media is the biggest thing to focus, but you can pair them with a new site. | ||
GeckoXp
Germany2013 Posts
On September 13 2018 11:29 BigFan wrote: I'm not sure where you see this. It's true that prior to SCII's release, TL was purely BW and that's not the case anymore, but the amount of work and attention that BW is getting is just as much as the past. If you took a look at the FP just yesterday, before the latest SCII build article, you would've seen that BW occupied 3/4 spots and this doesn't include the other two articles on that page, nor the fact that there's 4 different BW articles/blogs/threads being spotlighted. This month alone, there's been 6 writeups already. Yes, it would be cool if TL was purely BW, but it should be obvious why that can't be the case at this point. On that note, this is mostly targeting the idea that BW posters are second rate citizens of a second rate game on TL which is far from the truth. I can tell you that admins from the past that are still active still love the game and are very supportive/receptive to ideas etc... As for this portal idea, LP is always open for edits and has always been since its inception so it should be pretty easy to edit an article there, adding any videos made that explain things indepth etc... TL is mostly korea only and LP is not pragmatic as portal. This is unrelated to you or the staff, so no offense is meant i guess. That being said, I'd prolly tried to provide content if I have time. | ||
QuadroX
385 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24917 Posts
On September 13 2018 18:09 Qikz wrote: The reason why people feel BW isn't cared about anymore is the fact that for ages people like Artosis and Incontrol were calling for something like another TSL, but it's never going to happen. Sayle organised and I helped cast the TL Opens, but that was never going to be enough and that was purely the liquipedia team that made that happen. I know you're not in a situation to comment on the lack of a TSL, but that was a huge, huge missed opportunity from TL to show they still cared about the community. The forums are a husk of what they used to be, but that could be due to the lack of people using forums anymore. I think the calls to make a new centralised location might be a little missguided, but I think as long as we as a community do our best to get everyone on social media and reddit sharing BW content then it should be a fairly good start. At the end of the day it doesn't matter where that is hosted, it's more about getting on top of the SEO of BW content. I've recently set up an STPL twitter to help this and I'm going to do my best to get as many BW people involved in sharing BW content on twitter as possible. That's where the modern world congregates. Youtube, Twitter, Reddit, Facebook and Instagram. Forums are sadly a still much loved but relic of the past. The big issue we have with TL is the fact there's a lot of people that have come and gone over the years and they won't come back here. Look at some of the veteran posters who don't post here anymore for examples of this. They don't like the direction TL took. Even people like Artosis complains about TL. They're a corporation at the end of the day and BW is just what they started with, they have a lot more games and a lot more people interested in other games. Purely on a monetary basis BW isn't important even if the admins still love the game, it's not financially viable to chase it as much. A new portal/location could bring a lot of those older people back. A new face is an important aspect, but I still think social media is the biggest thing to focus, but you can pair them with a new site. I'm sorry, but your first reason doesn't sound right to me. You're basically saying that TL should be having another TSL which is extremely expensive to run and needs a lot of staff and organization too (lots of staff and people just left TL and BW forums once OSL ended) so that people feel like TL cares. Correct me if I'm wrong, but TL hasn't run a SCII tournament like TSL in years either, so should we say that clearly they don't care about that game too when it's far from the truth? The reality of the situation is that RM may have had a small energizing of the community, but once the couple of LANs that ran after RM was announced finished, most of those old players left except for some. This doesn't take into account the bugs in RM or the multiple issues that scared new and old players away (to be fair). It's within the players' rights to do as they wish, but it should be obvious why this TSL argument is flawed. I wish I could say something about TSL, but unfortunately, I can't give any info. On that note, TL did show they care and ran TL Open for 7 editions before it was stopped. I'm sure you know the reason for that Qikz, but you can message me on discord if you want me to refresh your memory ^^ The forums are a husk of what they used to be, because a lot of BW posters left after OSL finished or they transitioned to SCII, never setting foot in our forums again because to them, BW is dead. So, when you have posters that randomly come back and say that they are surprised and didn't realize there was still some competitive BW leagues going on, it makes sense. Yes, sharing BW content and information is the best thing to do at the moment. If you've followed the TL twitter, there's always BW tweets mixed in with SCII too, to keep people in the loop. Funny you bring up Artosis as an example, figured you would. Casters in general don't like people criticizing their casting and I'm pretty sure we've had a fair share of people doing so for tastosis since their return. There's also a lot of feedback threads in the SCII section so it's not a BW issue only. Having said that, I'd rather avoid saying more on this. Like before, you can message me about it if you like. Of course TL has grown. Their dota2 team won the International last year and took top 4 this year. Their LoL team made the worlds or won NA LCS or whatever their latest achievement was. They have/had players in some fighting games win multiple titles while they have still some SCII players. Basically, the site has grown a lot since the days when BW was the only game around. From that perspective, it's understandable that TL can't just be 100% focused on BW as much as we'd like it to be while back in the old days, it was purely BW that was driving TL traffic. EDIT: on another note, have you forgotten about TLC and TLS? With Rus_Brain's contribution, those ran for almost half a year on a weekly basis even when the community was even smaller and we were barely getting signups. You are vastly underselling how much TL cares about BW imo because of this incontrol and artosis said TL needs to have another TSL. On September 13 2018 20:30 GeckoXp wrote: TL is mostly korea only and LP is not pragmatic as portal. This is unrelated to you or the staff, so no offense is meant i guess. That being said, I'd prolly tried to provide content if I have time. Yes, there's a lot of heavy focus on Korean content, the best of the best etc... No offense taken Gecko. Thanks for your help on LP as usual. On September 14 2018 03:19 QuadroX wrote: A minor thing but why BW forums placed below Starcraft 2 forums? Why Starcraft 2 streams are on top of BroodWar streams? When you scroll on top (which is by default when you open the site) there is just SC2 shown to the user. Just saying.. Looks like BW was put under the rug even from UX perspective. I think you're nitpicking just a bit mate. You can fix the sidebar as you like under the settings button if you want and as for streams, if you've noticed, all the expros have their streams featured, even if they are players like intotherainbow who barely get viewers or play much. We could've easily tried to limit it like the SCII one is (you have to hit targets to get featured), but for BW, there's much more leniency because of TL's past. Also, keep in mind how small the foreign BW community now is. Edit: I've said all I wanted on this. If anyone else wants to have a convo, feel free to message me. I don't want to clog the thread up for Koget. Best of luck with the portal! | ||
radley
Poland577 Posts
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radley
Poland577 Posts
On September 10 2018 22:43 QuadroX wrote: There is one thing I'd like to bring up. If you are to make a web portal let's make it in the oldschool style, so it would be accessible even on my Asus EEEPC with 512mbs of RAM on outdated browser under Windows XP. I still play some games on ICCUP using this toaster and it would be great to access this portal from it. I guess I'm not alone. Don't put too much emphasis on JavaScript shiny frameworks that overload old browsers. Ideally make it accessible even for 640x480 screen sizes. sclegacy was like that, reps.ru was like that, teamliquid did a great job staying compatible and works fine with the older browsers. For example reddit, gmail, youtube do not work anymore, they use too much of modern JavaScript technologies. This might sound crazy but if you have time pay attention to that aspect as well. Please no. This is SCR content now. SCR won't run on such an old machines. So please don't even start with such expectations. Those big websites stopped working on it not without a reason. And they've got billions of dolars to be spent on development. Making frontend compatible with old technologies is one of the most time consuming things to do. And you cannot even use most of the modern frontend frameworks, which could save another tons of time. Anybody working on that site would be most likely already working person, with limited time to be spent on it. Sites like teamliquid can maintain it, because most of its content is text... which doesn't mean sites looks good, it's actually terribly overwhelmed by text content, not to mention that its small font on HD screen is for users with eagle eyes. This is the only site I visit on daily basis and have to do it with increased zoom to at least 125%, lol. | ||
QuadroX
385 Posts
On September 14 2018 07:32 radley wrote: Please no. This is SCR content now. SCR won't run on such an old machines. So please don't even start with such expectations. Those big websites stopped working on it not without a reason. And they've got billions of dolars to be spent on development. Making frontend compatible with old technologies is one of the most time consuming things to do. And you cannot even use most of the modern frontend frameworks, which could save another tons of time. Anybody working on that site would be most likely already working person, with limited time to be spent on it. Sites like teamliquid can maintain it, because most of its content is text... which doesn't mean sites looks good, it's actually terribly overwhelmed by text content, not to mention that its small font on HD screen is for users with eagle eyes. This is the only site I visit on daily basis and have to do it with increased zoom to at least 125%, lol. Let me clarify a bit. Non-technical people might skip this. I'm not saying that you should spend more effort making JavaScript code compatible with old browsers. That was the hard part back then. Like making scripts and CSS work in IE6. At the time we (developers) did not have any polyfills ready to use either so it was a much bigger effort. What I'm trying to say is instead of making the website JavaScript-heavy like most modern websites make it HTML-focused instead. Make it minimalist and focus on the text content and not on those shiny new features like update everything without page reload, tons of widgets, not try to make it a single-page app or a website screaming how cool and gaming-styled it is like those RGB keyboards. I saw numerous things that won't even load until all the JavaScript code is loaded properly. You would have troubles even opening it on your IPhone when you're in a metro or with bad internet connection. I suggest starting with clean semantic HTML and put the work in the text design and content keeping it minimalist and not overload with "cool things". HTML stuff would work in old browsers, and even for people with disabilities like screen readers etc. The content is the most important thing and it should be clean and accessible including the old PCs I believe. There would not be too much additional effort to make it so. It might not be perfect but at least the website won't hang up on you loading 100% CPU with client-side javascript like gmail or youtube. There are many old-school people that would appreciate the content focus like back in the days as well. And even where you need to use some javascript - old browsers problem solved with polyfills. You add a couple of external libs and it just works. Almost no additional effort. I don't understand why it's a good idea to exclude a bunch of people to save a tiny bit of effort. Specifically for the fonts it's just a TL problem. Dynamic font sizes (depending on the screen size) are widely supported via CSS. It is possible, and it is not hard. Big companies like Google need to push everybody to use the latest and greatest version of Chrome. Microsoft wants for users to use latest Windows 10 with Edge, Apple wants the users to move to the latest IPhone. There's just marketing, they don't make it not accessible for the sake of saving effort I believe. | ||
radley
Poland577 Posts
The quote about teamliquids font was just a digression. The point was they could maintain decent compatibility with different specs because the site consists of simple elements. | ||
Cele
Germany4012 Posts
On September 13 2018 18:09 Qikz wrote: The reason why people feel BW isn't cared about anymore is the fact that for ages people like Artosis and Incontrol were calling for something like another TSL, but it's never going to happen. Sayle organised and I helped cast the TL Opens, but that was never going to be enough and that was purely the liquipedia team that made that happen. I know you're not in a situation to comment on the lack of a TSL, but that was a huge, huge missed opportunity from TL to show they still cared about the community. The forums are a husk of what they used to be, but that could be due to the lack of people using forums anymore. I think the calls to make a new centralised location might be a little missguided, but I think as long as we as a community do our best to get everyone on social media and reddit sharing BW content then it should be a fairly good start. At the end of the day it doesn't matter where that is hosted, it's more about getting on top of the SEO of BW content. I've recently set up an STPL twitter to help this and I'm going to do my best to get as many BW people involved in sharing BW content on twitter as possible. That's where the modern world congregates. Youtube, Twitter, Reddit, Facebook and Instagram. Forums are sadly a still much loved but relic of the past. The big issue we have with TL is the fact there's a lot of people that have come and gone over the years and they won't come back here. Look at some of the veteran posters who don't post here anymore for examples of this. They don't like the direction TL took. Even people like Artosis complains about TL. They're a corporation at the end of the day and BW is just what they started with, they have a lot more games and a lot more people interested in other games. Purely on a monetary basis BW isn't important even if the admins still love the game, it's not financially viable to chase it as much. A new portal/location could bring a lot of those older people back. A new face is an important aspect, but I still think social media is the biggest thing to focus, but you can pair them with a new site. Tastosis and Incontrol neither provide the sponsorship money needed for an event like TSL nor do they do all the background work. Acquiring sponsors, creating and managing banners, splashscreens, conceptualizing the tournament etc etc takes a lot of time and manpower to run. Sadly, with the general decline in size of the community the stock of staff people who are interested in helping out has gone down the same or at a even worse ratio. I doubt for good reason that Teamliquid has the manpower to run a Starleague without a massive mobilisation on staff personnel first. Second, besides from having Tastosis, even a well advertised TSL would not aquire the users and attention necessary to make it attractive enough for sponsors. The expectations from top players towards the pricepool would be pretty high. You don't cover that by donations and coupon codes with matcherino. So, having a 5.000 € prizepool and a stream that has 300 to 500 viewers in general plus very little media attention elsewhere makes little to no sense for sponsors. You can only rely on the charity of the likes of RUS-Brain. | ||
QuadroX
385 Posts
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Cele
Germany4012 Posts
On September 14 2018 22:26 QuadroX wrote: 5000$ prize pool with Tastosis streaming would have much more than 300 to 500 viewers. Disagree on this point. Yes sponsors care about large sums of money, but players and viewers not necessarily. There should be some money for sure to make people play and watch but it does not have to be large. Otherwise good points. You misunderstood me. I meant: a stream with everybody but Tastosis wouldn't reach more than 300 to 500. And yeah i think the top players in foreign Broodwar would expect a decent prizepool. Of course it matters. | ||
Radivel-X17
Canada144 Posts
Don't make a website / portal. Instead, make a Discord bot that has a ridiculous number of comprehensive features, starting with user registration on the bot. For starters, this will create a situation where you do not need to handle any user/website interactions at all, which eliminates most of the headaches. You could create a list of Discord bot features. !register radivel-x17 - adds account though mod approval !tournament new 8/16/32/etc - individuals with tournament create capabilities can make and manage tournaments pretty easily through whispering commands !tournament view 1234 - View tournament #1234 status / results / etc !sponbbang dewalt eonzerg - Because why not? Just spitballing here. and so on. Why else is this good? - It skips the now-outdated "forum" feel and goes right to social media. - It's easy to start small and increase capabilities without interfering with the existing bot - It's easy for the bot to record data on its host that might be useful later, such as looking up old tournament data - Having one central location to track tournaments allows for a ranking system in the future someday - Discord is MOBILE and already has a ridiculously capable phone app Anyway, I could go on and on about this. I feel like if you think about it, this is probably a pretty good solution. Just an idea! | ||
radley
Poland577 Posts
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Siz)Beggar
United States336 Posts
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Puosu
6982 Posts
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QuadroX
385 Posts
On September 17 2018 02:12 Puosu wrote: There's a ~0% chance of any bw portal succeeding outside of TL. Depends on who's behind it. If known people in BW community start to put effort into it and create quality content then I don't see any issues. | ||
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