Serral's Revolution - Page 5
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Dave4
494 Posts
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arioch
England403 Posts
I cannot wait to see what 2019 adds to the amazing stories that played out this year. | ||
raff100
498 Posts
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archonOOid
1983 Posts
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imp42
398 Posts
article: [...]He did the same to Rogue in the semifinals, a pair of victories as impressive as any we’ve seen in recent years[...] A bit of an understatement to me, game 4 of this encounter was the best ZvZ I've ever seen. We're blessed we get to download the replay and appreciate everything that was missed in the live cast. On November 12 2018 03:19 archonOOid wrote: Good article but maybe it should be mentioned that the Korean scene while dominant isn't as vibrant as it has been in the past. Serral's win is poking a hole in the deteriorating Korean sc2 scene built up by bw, eroded by increasingly stronger winds from other games in the current decade and a shrinking player pool/popularity. You may be right that the scene itself is currently past its peak from a couple years ago, but is the quality of the gameplay? I enjoyed Nestea, DRG, Life ( ;-( ), Rogue, etc. but I've never seen anything like Serral. | ||
Charoisaur
Germany15616 Posts
On November 12 2018 03:19 archonOOid wrote: Good article but maybe it should be mentioned that the Korean scene while dominant isn't as vibrant as it has been in the past. Serral's win is poking a hole in the deteriorating Korean sc2 scene built up by bw, eroded by increasingly stronger winds from other games in the current decade and a shrinking player pool/popularity. Foreigner apologists don't want to acknowledege this. In their minds the gap closing is solely due to foreigners improving. I can see why the writers don't want to mention this so they don't get crucified by foreigner apologists. | ||
Artisreal
Germany9227 Posts
it was indeed | ||
11cc
Finland561 Posts
On November 12 2018 03:44 Charoisaur wrote: Foreigner apologists don't want to acknowledege this. In their minds the gap closing is solely due to foreigners improving. I can see why the writers don't want to mention this so they don't get crucified by foreigner apologists. Maybe every article about sc2 should mention that sc2 isn't as big now as it was in 2012, and if it were, these noobs who wins these tournaments wouldn't ever even make it out of group stages but the scene is just so shit nowadays that even these inferior players manage to win. GSL 3 times in a row? Well don't wan't to be apologists so we must point out that Korean scene sucks now compared to the past so don't get too excited. Maru isn't that amazing, it's just that the whole scene is in decline. Not exactly the kind of article that I'd enjoy reading about a sport that I like. | ||
TheOneAboveU
Germany3367 Posts
On November 12 2018 03:19 archonOOid wrote: Good article but maybe it should be mentioned that the Korean scene while dominant isn't as vibrant as it has been in the past. Serral's win is poking a hole in the deteriorating Korean sc2 scene built up by bw, eroded by increasingly stronger winds from other games in the current decade and a shrinking player pool/popularity. I think this part quite openly states what you just mentioned, no? The dissolution of KeSPA teams in late 2016 was a demoralizing blow, possibly a coup de grâce in more fraught circumstances, but the remaining Korean pros stalwartly adapted to their new environment. They returned to their winning ways in 2017, sweeping all the major international events. Despite the withdrawal of KeSPA, the utter lack of new talent, and the combination of retirements and resurgence of the Brood War scene, the momentum Korea had built up over decades was still overwhelming. Even on the tail end of the avalanche, foreigners were being buried. | ||
Charoisaur
Germany15616 Posts
On November 12 2018 06:10 11cc wrote: Maybe every article about sc2 should mention that sc2 isn't as big now as it was in 2012, and if it were, these noobs who wins these tournaments wouldn't ever even make it out of group stages but the scene is just so shit nowadays that even these inferior players manage to win. GSL 3 times in a row? Well don't wan't to be apologists so we must point out that Korean scene sucks now compared to the past so don't get too excited. Maru isn't that amazing, it's just that the whole scene is in decline. Not exactly the kind of article that I'd enjoy reading about a sport that I like. yeah you have a point. Though I also think that Maru winning 3 GSLs is in part because of the decline of the korean scene. | ||
imp42
398 Posts
you know, if somebody hangs in the air like Michael Jordan did, then you recognize and acknowledge that talent no matter what the level of basketball as a scene was at the time. To see this equivalent talent, just open a replay and check for yourself how Serral actually plays. Secondly, the greatness of a player / athlete should always be considered and evaluated in a given context and it is pretty much impossible to compare people from different eras. Is Hines achievement being the first to break the 10 second barrier during a 100m sprint in 1968 worth less just because the field has advanced and sub-10-second times are done routinely now? Absolutely not. Yes, the Koreans don't have team house support anymore like they used to have. But neither has Serral. Skill is about what you achieve with the tools you get. | ||
Charoisaur
Germany15616 Posts
On November 12 2018 06:42 imp42 wrote: regarding koreans vs foreigners, declining scene, etc.: you know, if somebody hangs in the air like Michael Jordan did, then you recognize and acknowledge that talent no matter what the level of basketball as a scene was at the time. To see this equivalent talent, just open a replay and check for yourself how Serral actually plays. Secondly, the greatness of a player / athlete should always be considered and evaluated in a given context and it is pretty much impossible to compare people from different eras. Is Hines achievement being the first to break the 10 second barrier during a 100m sprint in 1968 worth less just because the field has advanced and sub-10-second times are done routinely now? Absolutely not. Yes, the Koreans don't have team house support anymore like they used to have. But neither has Serral. Skill is about what you achieve with the tools you get. I don't even think the loss of teamhouses is that big of a factor for the decline in skill. Most of the current pros know how to practice and some even had a sudden increase in skill after the teams disbanded (soO, Inno). The age is the bigger factor imo, most koreans are hitting an age where their mechanics slowly evaporate but they don't get replaced by new talent because there isn't new talent breaking into the scene. I'm not saying Maru or Serral suck - obviously they are incredibly good, just that what they are achieving now would have been much much harder 3-4 years ago. | ||
Anc13nt
1557 Posts
On November 12 2018 07:13 Charoisaur wrote: I don't even think the loss of teamhouses is that big of a factor for the decline in skill. Most of the current pros know how to practice and some even had a sudden increase in skill after the teams disbanded (soO, Inno). The age is the bigger factor imo, most koreans are hitting an age where their mechanics slowly evaporate but they don't get replaced by new talent because there isn't new talent breaking into the scene. I'm not saying Maru or Serral suck - obviously they are incredibly good, just that what they are achieving now would have been much much harder 3-4 years ago. Yeah I've said it a few times before. There is a reason why the oldest BW OSL champion was only 23 (and vast majority are younger than 21). Doesn't make it impossible to be at the top at an old age though; Nestea proved this and while FlaSh can't go back in time, I'm pretty sure he would still be near the top even in the pro BW era. It's still an important factor to consider though. INnoVation himself said months ago in an interview posted on the Starcraft Reddit that "Maru is a very good player, still young, while I am starting to feel my limits, my body and my brain are slowed down so I think the gap will continue to widen between us." I hope that isn't the case even though odds are stacked against him. As an INnoVation fan, I hope that he comes back next year and does really well. Moreover, I hope the Korean scene can still compete against Serral in the next few years and it's not like it's just Serral, Maru, Dark, TY and Rogue at the top (with the older SC2 pros having retired or declined). | ||
RaidenSC2
3 Posts
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hiroshOne
Poland424 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15616 Posts
On November 12 2018 22:20 hiroshOne wrote: Maybe Korean scene isn't as vibrant as it used to be bit the level of play is much higher that it was in 2012 for example. Skill is more refined and the game itself is much more complex and much faster and demanding. Higher than in 2012? Sure. Higher than in 2013-2015? I don't think so. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17187 Posts
On November 12 2018 23:39 Charoisaur wrote: Higher than in 2012? Sure. Higher than in 2013-2015? I don't think so. (1) that was HotS, which was quite a different game. (2) I don't htink that's true either. 2013-2015 was prime time for Innovation and Zest. Do you think 2014 innovation would beat 2018 innovation? Also, let me remind you that 2014 had Hyun, San and StarDust in the top 8 WCS players... I'd put any of the top 8 koreans from 2018 against any of these 3. | ||
Charoisaur
Germany15616 Posts
On November 13 2018 00:04 Acrofales wrote: (1) that was HotS, which was quite a different game. (2) I don't htink that's true either. 2013-2015 was prime time for Innovation and Zest. Do you think 2014 innovation would beat 2018 innovation? Also, let me remind you that 2014 had Hyun, San and StarDust in the top 8 WCS players... I'd put any of the top 8 koreans from 2018 against any of these 3. Hyun, San and Stardust were only top 8 because of the WCS system. Would 2014 INnoVation beat 2018 INnoVation? Well, that doesn't make sense because they're playing different games. 2014 INnoVation would win when they play HotS and 2018 Inno would win when they play LotV. The only thing that can be compared is mechanics and all data that we have indicates that mechanics get worse as the players are getting older (which is why they usually can't compete anymore when they hit a certain age). And Inno himself said he feels he's getting slower. | ||
Xamo
Spain863 Posts
I hope we have more events next year. One event more in WCS and one global event more would be so nice! Koreans are surely dissecting Serral’s play with extremely sharp knifes... | ||
NinjaNight
428 Posts
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