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On November 17 2018 11:18 Waxangel wrote: I think this would have bothered me more a long time ago, but I've grown more and more cynical and accepting about the fact that sports is more entertainment than competition (it only has to be competitive enough to keep the majority of fans happy).
However, I do think the "BlizzCon champ should get a seed" line of thinking really misses the point, because it's the PRINCIPLE of the act (giving star players any kind of preferential treatment in exchange for promotion) that's interesting here, not the specifics of this particular case. I imagine there's some line to be crossed that most fans would find distasteful. For instance, what would people think if WESG offered a seed to a player who's not as universally revered like Serral, but has a similar amount of reach/popularity? Hypothetically, what if they had given TIME—a far lesser player than Serral but probably the most known in the Chinese market—the same offer?
Personally I think invites are up to the entire discretion of the organization. That's why they are "invites" and not "merit based ranking system/qualification" The blizzcono just makes it easier to justify.
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I think it makes sense for him to just get an invite. Save the qualifiers for other players to fight thru. Serral would've just beaten them all anyways lol
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On November 17 2018 10:47 11cc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2018 10:33 yht9657 wrote: A lot of people cry when sOs beat Maru fair and square and they didn't get to see Maru vs Serral in WCS.
Now WESG gives us what we all want to see and invites Maru and Serral directly to the main event, why would you be annoyed by it? And it's not like Serral would have any trouble getting through the qualifers. I want to see Serral and Maru play against each other because I consider them to be the best players, but not artificially. I don't want brackets to be rigged or free wins to be awarded or any nonsense like that for the ideal match up to happen, and that would include invites to a mostly competitive tournament. ...
Free wins are a given at WESG. Have you taken a look through the regional qualifiers for the event? Serbia and Mongolia have each their own qualifier for the main event... I am willing to bet that whatever players qualify in those will not stand any chance at the tournament... For Mongolia it is looking like the only player that signed up for the first qualifier may get a ticket to the grand finals by default if noone else signs up for the second qualifier... Besides those, WESG has a bunch of other regional qualifiers that seem to produce players that will simply get stomped during the main event. I'd say Serral getting an invite to the main event is effectively just giving the Scandinavian qualifier a second spot for WESG, which I am perfectly fine with since it looks like the first round of WESG will be just a whole lot of one-sided stomps...
edit: there is even a Macau only qualifier X_X
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if he were trying to sell us coca cola and sneakers for a free invite it would seem kind of scummy, but he's just promoting more starcraft, so how is this bad?
feels like we're reaching too hard for a juicy negative take on serral. ooooh controversy. let's not bite our own heads off in this small niche community complaining about things like "legendary player gets invited to a tournament and also promotes it," because if you drop the charade that's all this is
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Not having Serral go through the qualifier creates a more fair playing field for the rest of the players. I mean if the deal was "hey you can get a spot, but only if you work for us as an advertiser, if you dont want that, go thru it like the rest of them peasants" -then yeah, that s bad. If it was like, Hey, we have 4 invite spots, obviously you would be one of those, so you dont have to do qualifiers, but would you be okay with promoting the event on your stream/social media, so we dont lose the "serral hype" for our qualifier process? and then he said, sure?
Could someone link the announcement / article/ whatever, so we dont just speculate and blindly judge the organizers for something they might not have done?
Also, inviting top 4 seeds is absolutely common practice, and always has been. Not every tourney does it, sure, you can say you like those who dont, but let s not get carried away
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The liquipedia page isn't updaed with the invites. You say Serral and Maru got two of them. Did Dark and Classic get the other two? If so, then the top 4 of last year got invites. That is like the GSL has been doing for years, the top gets seeded into the next event.
The other thing, promoting the tournament, is just a conditional invite. It's an 'if you want to get a free pass to this commercial event, advertise the event'. Sports is an entertainment business. This event gets its money comes from investments, not the product. The investors want to be seen to get their money's worth, and the event has to be seen to continue.
This all seems reasonable to me. I only hope for the event to be more accessible. I don't know when the qualifiers are, what the basis for invites are, when the main tournament is. The official website says "For the new WESG season, world top teams and players will be invited to the WESG Grand Final." That does not really explain what constitutes a top player. I also found dates for qualifiers, but not at which hour.
edit: Geo.Rion posted while I wrote my post.We have similar contents. Sorry for the semi-double post.
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On November 17 2018 16:02 Drfilip wrote:The liquipedia page isn't updaed with the invites. You say Serral and Maru got two of them. Did Dark and Classic get the other two? If so, then the top 4 of last year got invites. That is like the GSL has been doing for years, the top gets seeded into the next event. The other thing, promoting the tournament, is just a conditional invite. It's an 'if you want to get a free pass to this commercial event, advertise the event'. Sports is an entertainment business. This event gets its money comes from investments, not the product. The investors want to be seen to get their money's worth, and the event has to be seen to continue. This all seems reasonable to me. I only hope for the event to be more accessible. I don't know when the qualifiers are, what the basis for invites are, when the main tournament is. The official website says "For the new WESG season, world top teams and players will be invited to the WESG Grand Final." That does not really explain what constitutes a top player. I also found dates for qualifiers, but not at which hour. edit: Geo.Rion posted while I wrote my post.We have similar contents. Sorry for the semi-double post. From what I've heard one of the other two will be iAsonu, Chinese Zerg player.
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It really feel like people are bitching over nothing. Serral is the foreigner GOAT, has won nearly everything this year and is with Maru the most desserving player for an invite; and there is four invites. Also the counterpart isn't even to promote Alibaba or whatever product, but to advertise the tournament itself, starcraft II itself. It was win/win situation. Even scandinavian player can now breath easier knowing that they will have a chance to qualify, which would have been denied if Serral was to play in the qualifier.
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On November 17 2018 16:02 Drfilip wrote:The liquipedia page isn't updaed with the invites. You say Serral and Maru got two of them. Did Dark and Classic get the other two? If so, then the top 4 of last year got invites. That is like the GSL has been doing for years, the top gets seeded into the next event. The other thing, promoting the tournament, is just a conditional invite. It's an 'if you want to get a free pass to this commercial event, advertise the event'. Sports is an entertainment business. This event gets its money comes from investments, not the product. The investors want to be seen to get their money's worth, and the event has to be seen to continue. This all seems reasonable to me. I only hope for the event to be more accessible. I don't know when the qualifiers are, what the basis for invites are, when the main tournament is. The official website says "For the new WESG season, world top teams and players will be invited to the WESG Grand Final." That does not really explain what constitutes a top player. I also found dates for qualifiers, but not at which hour. edit: Geo.Rion posted while I wrote my post.We have similar contents. Sorry for the semi-double post. Dark played in the qualifier (and won it) so apparently he didn't get a seed.
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INno is literraly clueless against zerg :/ will there be a new korean qualifier?
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On November 17 2018 11:18 Waxangel wrote: I think this would have bothered me more a long time ago, but I've grown more and more cynical and accepting about the fact that sports is more entertainment than competition (it only has to be competitive enough to keep the majority of fans happy).
However, I do think the "BlizzCon champ should get a seed" line of thinking really misses the point, because it's the PRINCIPLE of the act (giving star players any kind of preferential treatment in exchange for promotion) that's interesting here, not the specifics of this particular case. I imagine there's some line to be crossed that most fans would find distasteful. For instance, what would people think if WESG offered a seed to a player who's not as universally revered like Serral, but has a similar amount of reach/popularity? Hypothetically, what if they had given TIME—a far lesser player than Serral but probably the most known in the Chinese market—the same offer?
I think this is pretty much spot on. It is a shame to do things this way, and I am actually pretty convinced that the core of what makes Starcraft interesting is slowly hollowed out by stuff like this.
As for who deserves the invites based on their competetive merits, there is no doubt that Serral is one of the four. The other three should go to Maru and two other Koreans. This would help balance out the (competitively speaking) extremely skewed qualification system they have chosen for WESG. It's is so weird that they have chosen to pretend that elite-level SC2 is truly global, just so it can fit with their other games. Why would you not want to have the best players at your tournament?
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On November 17 2018 19:34 sneakyfox wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2018 11:18 Waxangel wrote: I think this would have bothered me more a long time ago, but I've grown more and more cynical and accepting about the fact that sports is more entertainment than competition (it only has to be competitive enough to keep the majority of fans happy).
However, I do think the "BlizzCon champ should get a seed" line of thinking really misses the point, because it's the PRINCIPLE of the act (giving star players any kind of preferential treatment in exchange for promotion) that's interesting here, not the specifics of this particular case. I imagine there's some line to be crossed that most fans would find distasteful. For instance, what would people think if WESG offered a seed to a player who's not as universally revered like Serral, but has a similar amount of reach/popularity? Hypothetically, what if they had given TIME—a far lesser player than Serral but probably the most known in the Chinese market—the same offer? I think this is pretty much spot on. It is a shame to do things this way, and I am actually pretty convinced that the core of what makes Starcraft interesting is slowly hollowed out by stuff like this. As for who deserves the invites based on their competetive merits, there is no doubt that Serral is one of the four. The other three should go to Maru and two other Koreans. This would help balance out the (competitively speaking) extremely skewed qualification system they have chosen for WESG. It's is so weird that they have chosen to pretend that elite-level SC2 is truly global, just so it can fit with their other games. Why would you not want to have the best players at your tournament? to give players from other regions a shot? You know - the reason behind region-locking.
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I'm sorry, but you are quarrel among themselves (again). Day by day. Like, what is that? Some help or is this some type of a cure?
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Italy2573 Posts
it's 4 invites on 48 total players (so less than 10%) and it's kinda obvious that an organization that organizes a 250k tournament wthout being at the core of the sc2 wants those invites spent on the top players around... they took the standings and invited the top player of each.. I don't really get what's bad in this since it's a "private funded tournament" and it is not WCS points related... personally I don't think they did that in exchange for Serral's tweets (did he make them btw?) tbh, why would they? in soccer, iirc, the host nation of the WC goes directly to the final stage and that's way more "bad" than for a sponsor/organizer to chose themselves the 7/8% of the participants of their 250k "we have qualifiers for literally everyone" tournament imo...
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i don't care as there's no finnish player who can win a map in a bo17 against him.
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On November 17 2018 20:08 CynicalDeath wrote: it's 4 invites on 48 total players (so less than 10%) and it's kinda obvious that an organization that organizes a 250k tournament wthout being at the core of the sc2 wants those invites spent on the top players around... they took the standings and invited the top player of each.. I don't really get what's bad in this since it's a "private funded tournament" and it is not WCS points related... personally I don't think they did that in exchange for Serral's tweets (did he make them btw?) tbh, why would they? in soccer, iirc, the host nation of the WC goes directly to the final stage and that's way more "bad" than for a sponsor/organizer to chose themselves the 7/8% of the participants of their 250k "we have qualifiers for literally everyone" tournament imo... The only confusing thing is that Dark apparently didn't get a seed despite placing higher in the last WESG than Serral. In this case I don't think this is a problem because Serral would've qualified anyway and it gives another skandinavian player a shot to qualify. But in general I think a tournament which values competitive integrity shouldn't send out invites for specific players for no apparent reason other than "it raises interest for the tournament" or something similar.
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On November 17 2018 19:45 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2018 19:34 sneakyfox wrote:On November 17 2018 11:18 Waxangel wrote: I think this would have bothered me more a long time ago, but I've grown more and more cynical and accepting about the fact that sports is more entertainment than competition (it only has to be competitive enough to keep the majority of fans happy).
However, I do think the "BlizzCon champ should get a seed" line of thinking really misses the point, because it's the PRINCIPLE of the act (giving star players any kind of preferential treatment in exchange for promotion) that's interesting here, not the specifics of this particular case. I imagine there's some line to be crossed that most fans would find distasteful. For instance, what would people think if WESG offered a seed to a player who's not as universally revered like Serral, but has a similar amount of reach/popularity? Hypothetically, what if they had given TIME—a far lesser player than Serral but probably the most known in the Chinese market—the same offer? I think this is pretty much spot on. It is a shame to do things this way, and I am actually pretty convinced that the core of what makes Starcraft interesting is slowly hollowed out by stuff like this. As for who deserves the invites based on their competetive merits, there is no doubt that Serral is one of the four. The other three should go to Maru and two other Koreans. This would help balance out the (competitively speaking) extremely skewed qualification system they have chosen for WESG. It's is so weird that they have chosen to pretend that elite-level SC2 is truly global, just so it can fit with their other games. Why would you not want to have the best players at your tournament? to give players from other regions a shot? You know - the reason behind region-locking.
This is much more than Blizzards region lock. I think they do it because they want the same structure across their various games. Perhaps to give it an air of 'esports olympics' with a big variety in national representation.
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On November 17 2018 20:58 sneakyfox wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2018 19:45 Charoisaur wrote:On November 17 2018 19:34 sneakyfox wrote:On November 17 2018 11:18 Waxangel wrote: I think this would have bothered me more a long time ago, but I've grown more and more cynical and accepting about the fact that sports is more entertainment than competition (it only has to be competitive enough to keep the majority of fans happy).
However, I do think the "BlizzCon champ should get a seed" line of thinking really misses the point, because it's the PRINCIPLE of the act (giving star players any kind of preferential treatment in exchange for promotion) that's interesting here, not the specifics of this particular case. I imagine there's some line to be crossed that most fans would find distasteful. For instance, what would people think if WESG offered a seed to a player who's not as universally revered like Serral, but has a similar amount of reach/popularity? Hypothetically, what if they had given TIME—a far lesser player than Serral but probably the most known in the Chinese market—the same offer? I think this is pretty much spot on. It is a shame to do things this way, and I am actually pretty convinced that the core of what makes Starcraft interesting is slowly hollowed out by stuff like this. As for who deserves the invites based on their competetive merits, there is no doubt that Serral is one of the four. The other three should go to Maru and two other Koreans. This would help balance out the (competitively speaking) extremely skewed qualification system they have chosen for WESG. It's is so weird that they have chosen to pretend that elite-level SC2 is truly global, just so it can fit with their other games. Why would you not want to have the best players at your tournament? to give players from other regions a shot? You know - the reason behind region-locking. This is much more than Blizzards region lock. I think they do it because they want the same structure across their various games. Perhaps to give it an air of 'esports olympics' with a big variety in national representation. of course it's much more than Blizzard's region lock but the idea behind it is the same. Blizzard doesn't want "open" tournaments to give players from weaker regions a shot so not every tournament is 90% koreans. WESG just enhances this further so players from even weaker regions get a shot.
you can't really use the "Why would you not want to have the best players at your tournament?" argument and support region-lock at the same time.
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On November 17 2018 09:42 Lillyngve wrote: Why would this be a bad thing? And let's be real, who would you rather see get one of those invite-spots? I'm all for it, go Serral!
The one who qualifies properly.
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yes I agree OP, it rubs me the wrong way. It wouldn't rub me the wrong way if the rules didn't seem to be made up as they go.
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