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On December 07 2010 03:12 Welmu wrote: I wouldn't blame Blizzard on this. I think it's Nestea's problem not being prepared for all-in. Seriously, Marine/SCV all in isn't impossible to beat...
Actually it is quite impossible to beat since u have to go 14 hatch and 14 hatch is an auto-lose vs scv/marine all in as we saw on steppes of war.
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could the solution be as simple as -1 range on marines?
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In T v Z, early all-in marine+SCVs is not too good to watch paying $19.99 per season.
"if you can watch the finals between slayers_boxer(T) and [nc]yellow(Z)"
Nestea is a better player than TSL_Rain when he goes into mid-games. I, as a fan who thinks it's worth paying money for GSL, want to see more quality games than early all-ins that players use because they don't know how to beat other ways.
"i dont pay for gsl (shame on me) i stay up and watch like a true fan (when i am lucky/like last night <3 to supporters who pay and dont QQ"
final notes, i love being rushed like this, its fun to stop, i rarely do, and i will win vs it 100% eventually with more effort, and i will release replays if successful in a new thread one day, until then. "RUSH ME" i love your attempts.
edit: @Liquid`Jinro, find the zone, stay in the zone, get that adrenaline pumping, make sure you keep steady, and you will win. GL in matches. (stay in the zone when you get there, its like cheating)
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On December 07 2010 04:28 lolipopz wrote: zerg really is biggest QQ race in this game, wish they realized how big advantage gives them larva inject and larva stacking that nobody actually wants to go to midgame on their tearms.
nobody wants to go midgame/lategame because the game allows you to win in the early game. there is no incentive to practice midgame/lategame, no matter how balanced it is up there.
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On December 07 2010 04:26 UFO wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 03:12 Welmu wrote: I wouldn't blame Blizzard on this. I think it's Nestea's problem not being prepared for all-in. Seriously, Marine/SCV all in isn't impossible to beat... Thats actually a bullshit. Marine/SCV all in isn`t stoppable by 14 hatch and u have to go 14 hatch because pool first is even worse.
This is laughable...
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On December 07 2010 04:30 dolpiff wrote: could the solution be as simple as -1 range on marines? Marines would be stalker bait o.o
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On December 07 2010 04:30 wishbones wrote: In T v Z, early all-in marine+SCVs is not too good to watch paying $19.99 per season.
"if you can watch the finals between slayers_boxer(T) and [nc]yellow(Z)"
Nestea is a better player than TSL_Rain when he goes into mid-games. I, as a fan who thinks it's worth paying money for GSL, want to see more quality games than early all-ins that players use because they don't know how to beat other ways.
"i dont pay for gsl (shame on me) i stay up and watch like a true fan (when i am lucky/like last night <3 to supporters who pay and dont QQ"
final notes, i love being rushed like this, its fun to stop, i rarely do, and i will win vs it 100% eventually with more effort, and i will release replays if successful in a new thread one day, until then. "RUSH ME" i love your attempts.
You play to fucking win and u use the strategy that has the biggest chance of winning so why the fuck would u want to use other ways to win ? Such a flawed logic it makes my brain bleed.
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On December 07 2010 04:30 dolpiff wrote: could the solution be as simple as -1 range on marines?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but kiting with marines wasn't nearly effective in scbw. Maybe make the attack animation like a fraction of a second longer. Idk, it would break the game. All I can say is why do stalkers shoot soooo freaking slow. Kiting with stalkers is a lot harder than with stimmed marines.
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On December 07 2010 04:30 dolpiff wrote: could the solution be as simple as -1 range on marines?
Ouch, that sounds like a bit too much to me.
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I've never felt that cheesey rushes in any way lowered the quality of a game. the meta game will always evolve in a way that makes cheesey rushes less successfulness from players having to constantly defend against them. Instead of feeling dissapointed from seeing an all in, you should be screaming and cheering because its crunch time. Thats when you see the players at their form.
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On December 07 2010 04:30 dolpiff wrote: could the solution be as simple as -1 range on marines?
a nerf across the board for marines which are crucial during all stages of the game would tip the balance way too heavily.
this is a problem blizzard has to analyze and tackle and hopefully we'll end up with fewer marine/scv all ins.
i'm perfectly fine with that all in being viable, but only when the number of times that it's strategically optimal is a lot fewer than it is now.
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On December 07 2010 04:33 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 04:26 UFO wrote:On December 07 2010 03:12 Welmu wrote: I wouldn't blame Blizzard on this. I think it's Nestea's problem not being prepared for all-in. Seriously, Marine/SCV all in isn't impossible to beat... Thats actually a bullshit. Marine/SCV all in isn`t stoppable by 14 hatch and u have to go 14 hatch because pool first is even worse. This is laughable...
What is laughable about that
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On December 07 2010 04:27 dasanivan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 04:24 strength wrote: Why should they complain about cheesy builds? sc1 had bunker rushs that yellow hated hehe. Zergs will learn how to adapt, no worries. imagine a game where a set of strategies were so strong that nobody could learn to play against it. everyone would be using that strategy, right? SC2 is kind of like that game.
But can we really say this is impossible to learn how to play against? I mean, this "style" is relatively new, some Zergs have defended it. I'd say waiting for a while is the best solution, lets see how this evolves.
I do think this strat is retarded, but I am upset in how quickly people scream for a patch. Really, lets remember that while BW did get its fair share of Balance patches it was the community who balanced the games,through new strategies and new maps.
I don't know, its just how people quickly say the game is broken the moment something does not go their way upsets me. Its just so frustrating to me.
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On December 07 2010 04:36 dasanivan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 04:30 dolpiff wrote: could the solution be as simple as -1 range on marines? a nerf across the board for marines which are crucial during all stages of the game would tip the balance way too heavily. this is a problem blizzard has to analyze and tackle and hopefully we'll end up with fewer marine/scv all ins. i'm perfectly fine with that all in being viable, but only when the number of times that it's strategically optimal is a lot fewer than it is now.
Is it viable against anything other than 14 hatch?
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I don't get why people only talk about Rain vs Nestea.
He pulled the same shit versus Genius and Squirtle as well. I don't know who he played in Ro64, perhaps some scrub. But this has nothing to do with TvZ.
This has everything to do with the fact that terrans who feel they can't compete know that they can compete in the early game even if they are not as good as their opponent. Naturally, because it's a money tournament, most people will throw away whatever sense of pride they may have and abuse that.
If he really did post an apology then I applaud him for that. I'm pretty sure that wasn't the kind of quarter final he would have want to win. If the same thing happens versus HongUn I'll be pretty pissed. But HongUn has a really strong early game so perhaps the semi-finals will be better.
It's still a huge problem that there's a really unproven terran in the semifinals of the best sc2 tournament however.
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Rough Translation of TSL.Rain's post
"Hello,
First, I would like to say that I'm sorry. I can imagine that you were very disappointed with today's series against Nestea. I really didn't have enough time to practice, and I got to practice for only about 2 days due to personal circumstances.
Out of the 5 maps played today, I was actually prepared to do an all-in only on Blistering Sands, but I didn't think things would turn out like this.
For Steppes of War, I initially planned to go 2rax early expansion, then slow push, but he went Hatch first, and it's nearly impossible to deal with cheese if you go 15hatch on this map, so I decided to cheese rush.
I prepared a similar strategy for Xel'naga Caverns, but I regret that I was not able to show it.
I apologize for the fans of Nestea and this game. I will prepare more for the semifinal and I will show you more exciting games then."
I honestly don't blame the guy. There is nearly 100K on the line, and you want to be using whatever strategies that will maximize your chance of winning against an opponent who is overall a better player than you are. As a pro, you need to do whatever it takes to win as long as you don't break the rule. It's Blizzard's responsibility to address this issue.
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I'm glad he doesn't need to practice for this stuff. :/
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On December 07 2010 04:34 selboN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 04:30 dolpiff wrote: could the solution be as simple as -1 range on marines? Marines would be stalker bait o.o
A better solution is to add a fireing delay or cooldown. The problem currently is they attack instantly and then can be micro moved away. Prevent movement for 1/4-1/2 of their firing time (like give them an actual animation you cant stop). This will prevent abusive marine micro (which is the early game problem) but not effect the ball of units late game.
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On December 07 2010 04:25 Selith wrote:So I was looking through this, and one guy comments: "Good thing [TSL_Rain's] the opponent wasn't idra."
lol win xD idra would rage much if rain did that
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