Koreans React to GSL Ro8 - Page 13
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branflakes14
2082 Posts
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Inverted
United States50 Posts
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kuroshiro
United Kingdom378 Posts
On December 07 2010 04:54 Rekrul wrote: hate the game not the playa and LOL at posting a public apology about that. what a bitch. He's not apologising about exploiting the game. He's apologising about not practicing and not being able to show the audience what he's capable of. There's a difference. Some people care about their fans and the fans of other professionals in the sport. | ||
makotoisle
United States29 Posts
Is he just supposed to bend over and take it because "Nestea is a better player" and oh well, better luck next time? Or is he supposed to fight tooth and nail, doing whatever he can to succeed? And if Nestea really was so much of a better player, why didn't he old off the cheese? I guess I just don't understand how Nestea was robbed. It wasn't like he pressed an IWIN button or unplugged his keyboard or something. He used a risky and cheesy strategy, that Nestea could have defended against but failed to. | ||
Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On December 07 2010 05:16 I_Love_Bacon wrote: This is the line of thinking that avilo just wants people to believe. "Clearly the feel they cant compete past midgame".... is simply complaining without merit. Honestly, how many top quality players have you seen go late game TvZ to actually analyze the matchup? This is the line of thinking I swear most terrans are using when they complain: Late game is hard. More decisions to make and lots of units to control. Early game is ridiculously easy. Therefore, late game favors zerg so I must end it early. I'm not saying Z isn't favored in the late game. I honestly don't know. I don't think anybody does right now. It has a feeling that zerg might be favored, but given how few quality games and players we see past the 10 minute mark in a tvz, it's not even remotely a closed case. But the argument that if it was any good to play to late game vs Zerg then more players would actually do it is pretty strong I think.. You can argument like Idra, that this early game rax pressure is so strong, that there is no reason to avoid it.. But then again, why all Terran can come up with is cheese/all-in patch after patch? Is this race fucking doomed to play first 10 minutes and then give up? | ||
University
United States263 Posts
They are here to win, because they have given up hours of their lives, much of their emotional energy, and maybe even some of their relationships in order to support themselves. This is their livelihood. It's not like they get paid handsome salaries whether they win or lose, a la NBA or the MLB. These guys HAVE to win to continue. Put yourself in their shoes for one instant and you can see that so clearly. I have no idea what some of you people are thinking blaming the players. It is absurd and completely unsympathetic to them. | ||
Hider
Denmark9242 Posts
But also I suppose the 13g/14p is a much safer opening, and Nestea should prob. not have 14 hatched all games. | ||
Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
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TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
On December 07 2010 05:10 Assirra wrote: Cause you simply can't hold an 2rax push with larve from 1base. Hell, the terran doesn't even need to kill you when you dont 14 hatch, he can just bunker down your ramp and do whatever he wants since he got a economy advantage. 14hatch is the only way you got enough units to be able to defend so yes, you HAVE to 14 hatch to have a chance. Maybe I'm missing something here, but how is it easier for the Terran to "bunker down your ramp" if you pool first? I guess I could be not understanding what you mean by bunker down a ramp, but I assume it means build bunkers at the bottom of it to block you from leaving, but I still don't understand how it would be easier to do against pool first if it meant anything else that had to do with the Terran being at or near your ramp in any way. You are really making me feel like I'm missing some huge information in playing Zerg in this game, and I would really appreciate it if someone could fill me in. | ||
canSore
132 Posts
On December 07 2010 03:14 Chill wrote: As soon as you "want to see amazing games", you set up some WWE system where it's not people trying to win, but trying to put on a show. I want people doing anything in their power to win. I want people playing the dirtiest games you've ever seen in your life because it's their best chance to win. And, as a side effect of this, when people do show amazing, drawn-out games, they will be that much more special because of the rarity. I agree completely. I actually love cheese games, they are really exciting! I feel the adrenaline rush for both players. Short games, long games, I enjoy them all! | ||
dabom88
United States3483 Posts
If people see a high-profile match (NOT just some replay from a practice game) where they can clearly see the reasoning behind this, people may be more inclined to believe that 14 hatch is the best opener. But until then, there are a lot more examples of why 14-Hatching fails to reference, leading more people to think that 14-Hatch isn't the best opener. Try to see it from that perspective. | ||
billyX333
United States1360 Posts
On December 07 2010 05:15 Irrelevant wrote: i really wish people would stop saying this hatch first is greedy. its actually less economical than 14 pool 16 hatch the difference being you get own early and puts you in a terrible position to less efficiently deal with early pressure/harass 14 hatch is actually riskier, and barely more economical.... you're quite the jester and good job contradicting yourself. why dont you go fly over to korea and coach these noobs up then? | ||
I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On December 07 2010 05:20 Everlong wrote: But the argument that if it was any good to play to late game vs Zerg then more players would actually do it? I think this is a pretty strong argument.. You can argument like Idra, that this early game rax pressure is so strong, that there is no reason to avoid it.. But then again, why all Terran can come up with is cheese/all-in patch after patch? Is this race fucking doomed to play first 10 minutes and then give up? Why let the game go long when you can literally end it in less than 10 minutes with an insanely high win rate? Terran for the longest time have had no reason to go to late game with zerg. They've been doing abusive strategies on 1 or 2 base since the beta. I'm not faulting the Terrans for trying to win, but they're constantly changing and adapting and I don't think a single strat has actually focused on a late game. small edit: Let's say terrans are favored in the late game a little bit... they would still be 2-raxing. Why? Because right now it's a lot more than a little bit of a favorite in using it on the right maps or spawns. | ||
Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
On December 07 2010 05:10 I_Love_Bacon wrote: You're right, it's not an auto loss. However, it puts you at a huge disadvantage. You're saying it's ok because you're no longer losing outright... That isn't a good sign. It might be because I don't fight GSL caliber terrans, but I really do not think that going hatchery after pool isn't a huge disadvantage. You get your zerglings out faster, you get your queen out faster, and if he is scv rushing you get your spinecrawler out faster. And to the other guy claiming that the terran can just bunker you off and do whatever he want. That raises the question to me why you didn't scout that bunker in the first place. I would like to ask the kind posters to provide a replay where a zerg who went pool first into a little bit later hatchery lost to a 2 rax push and it wasnt due to his own incompetance of not scouting bunkers or the terrans base. If you can provide me this , I will promptly shut up and keep quiet in the corner. But until that, I stand firm that going pool first isnt as all in or a huge disadvantage as the other posters make it out to be, however stubborn that may be. | ||
arnold(soTa)
Sweden352 Posts
rain shouldnt have to apologize for anything, ofcourse if your opponent takes huge risks early on you should be able to advantage of that, anything else is stupid. Btw nestea is my favorite in GSL so no bias here, I am also a zerg player. | ||
Bellerpheron
United States14 Posts
you play to win the game. Considering the prize money at stake, how can anybody blame TSL_Rain for cheesing all the way to victory? If Nestea was a better player then he would win. Simple as that. Rain chose the prevailing strategy and executed it near perfection. Therefore he deserves the victory. | ||
eggs
1011 Posts
On December 07 2010 05:20 kuroshiro wrote: He's not apologising about exploiting the game. He's apologising about not practicing and not being able to show the audience what he's capable of. There's a difference. Some people care about their fans and the fans of other professionals in the sport. you don't see the San Antonio Spurs apologizing for being absolutely boring to watch yet winning. it's a competition, winning is the only thing people should care about. | ||
sixfour
England11060 Posts
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ShadowWolf
United States197 Posts
On December 07 2010 05:10 I_Love_Bacon wrote: You're right, it's not an auto loss. However, it puts you at a huge disadvantage. You're saying it's ok because you're no longer losing outright... That isn't a good sign. Around the 2000 Diamond level, against Terran players I've gone up against that do the marine aggression build, Hatching at 20 on nearly any 2-player map against a 2 rax push is not winnable. If the T has even mediocre micro and identifies that late of a hatch you're going to have to all-in because he'll bunker block your ramp before you can break it. You have a 50/50 shot he abandons the bunkers and pulls back and you get a chance to baneling bust him. The other 50% he defends the bunkers with a couple of marines while building a CC and adding even more marines behind a wall. You can either all-in or pray that you can somehow macro from way behind against a 4 rax enough to not die to it. A part of me wonders how well 11 pool 16-18 hatch can handle 2 rax marine all-ins. I know I still struggle against a practice friend of mine who basically does the Foxer build a lot when I go 11/18. If you get forced to all-in and see a few marauders on hold position in front of the supply depot wall-in, just gg. | ||
Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On December 07 2010 05:23 I_Love_Bacon wrote: Why let the game go long when you can literally end it in less than 10 minutes with an insanely high win rate? Terran for the longest time have had no reason to go to late game with zerg. They've been doing abusive strategies on 1 or 2 base since the beta. I'm not faulting the Terrans for trying to win, but they're constantly changing and adapting and I don't think a single strat has actually focused on a late game. You are absolutely right and I agree with you.. My only question is, why there isnt a single strat that actually focused on a late game? Is it because every singe time there is a new all-in/cheese strat that means "ez mode" for Terrans? Do you really think that those pro players that are paid for results concider nothing more than 5 min all-in? | ||
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