Koreans React to GSL Ro8 - Page 19
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Grack
51 Posts
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Aprikosen
Sweden53 Posts
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andrewwiggin
Australia435 Posts
"Oh, but, but, it needs to be entertaining, otherwise we won't watch and there won't be a future for SC2, so obviously the game is not balanced blah blah blah" Do you wonder WHY Rain's all in's worked? Because Nestea didn't adapt.. at. all. So don't blame balance, when Nestea was obviously the worse player that series... the one who didn't adapt playstyle at all (for pride, or whatever reasons, he thought he could get away with 14 hatch all the time). | ||
Ezze
Canada934 Posts
On December 07 2010 06:46 andrewwiggin wrote: Wow. People just LOVE to overreact huh. TSL Rain didn't win because he cheated, or because he hacked maps or anything. He won, because he OUTPLAYED NESTEA. It's THAT simple. Really, even if I was Korean and playing in the GSL ro8, I would not give a crap about 'honour' and honourable play and not being cheesy and any of that. It's 87K. You win, whatever it takes. TSL Rain is an insane player who knew Nestea's style, and played accordingly. That's what players are SUPPOSED to do. Sure, you can try to be all entertaining by letting the game go on for 30 minutes... ... and then in 30 minutes, when you're out and you don't win anything else and you dont even make the next GSL, who's going to remember you. Hm. ... p.s. it seems to me that most of the complaints about the game not being 'entertaining' are coming from zerg players. WONDER WHY. -____- LOL you just said he outplayed NesTea. | ||
Fiel
United States587 Posts
Matter of fact, he did it twice in the same Bo5. I don't see why cheesing is a bad thing even deep in the leagues. | ||
Emperor_Earth
United States824 Posts
On December 07 2010 06:48 Grack wrote: next patch: terran units do no dmg till 10 minute mark. Next next patch, opponents may not make a unit or building without getting mod approval from you. | ||
theboyrmca
27 Posts
On December 07 2010 06:28 Hatorade wrote: You play to win within the rules obviously, thats not much of an argument you have there. I hate cheesing as much as the next guy but If I had a shot at winning 85K you'd better bet I'd bring the Provolone. As others have said, as long as he's not breaking any rules I don't see how you can blame him for trying to win if theres an issue it's with the game itself. I am of the person who loves to say "haters gonna hate" and PLAY TO WIN, BUT needless to say because the majority of terrans are winning through all ins, it causes a reduction in appeal for casual spectators in e sports and less respect for the integrity of the game as casual players see these 2 rax > 4 rax all in cheeses over and over again. I would never DREAM of recommending any of my friends to watch any of these cheese as a good PRODUCT of SC2. TLDR Playing to win is fun, but every terran all in cheesing is stunting the growth of this game as an esport. Honestly, what casual spectator wants to see that EVERY GAME. | ||
Synk
United States297 Posts
Even in Fruitdealer's games everything was decided by 1 base play in a ZvP. | ||
Antipod
Canada18 Posts
Hate the game, not the player... | ||
Ezze
Canada934 Posts
On December 07 2010 06:50 Fiel wrote: Jaedong has 4 pooled flash at the Korean Air OSL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tolyTovrfzo Matter of fact, he did it twice in the same Bo5. I don't see why cheesing is a bad thing even deep in the leagues. Does Jaedong have a shot at winning a longer game? Exactly. Rain has absolutely no chance of winning a game vs NesTea unless he abuses ugly early game all-in mechanics. | ||
andrewwiggin
Australia435 Posts
Yes. lol It's simple logic. Rain > NesTea for that series, so Rain wins. Otherwise... NesTea wins. Magic, ta da! | ||
andrewwiggin
Australia435 Posts
On December 07 2010 06:51 Synk wrote: I'm really disappointed right now with SC2 in general due to how incredibly successful players can be with just 1 base all in trash. It isn't fun to use these builds in practice, and it isn't fun to watch them either yet they are just so effective and they win games which is the #1 most important factor in a competitive environment. It's hard to say if this is a failing of the players or just some fundamental design flaw ... I guess time will tell but right now I'm finding myself very disinterested in the games in general due to how short sighted most of the winning strats are. The players barely get a chance to even showcase their abilities before the games are over. Even in Fruitdealer's games everything was decided by 1 base play in a ZvP. ... again. Zerg players, stop blaming SC2 balance and the GAME... for the shortsighted play styles of PLAYERS. Do you think Rain would have gone in with such incredibly strong all-ins... if he thought NesTea was doing some sort of early 1 base play? Or something other than 14 hatch? Just THINK about that for a minute... ... itll come to you. | ||
dabom88
United States3483 Posts
On December 07 2010 06:44 bokeevboke wrote: I don't understand such guys who say "terran has no late game", "if cheese is better then players should do it, and its fine", "prize money is so big, players need to do everything they can". Have you guys seen how people vote for these games as recommended to watch? 90% say NO, don't watch, its bullshit. You're in 10% who likes smart-cheese-allins for the big prize money. Now my point is: if 90% of viewers don't like these games is there any point of broadcasting. People won't watch something they don't like. Which means less sponsors -> no future for SC2. Please open your mind. Clearly the balance team of Blizzard are not doing good job. And again, then that's a BALANCE issue, not a player issue. It is not the job of the players to consider things outside of playing the game. | ||
Fiel
United States587 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On December 07 2010 06:53 Ezze wrote: Does Jaedong have a shot at winning a longer game? Exactly. Rain has absolutely no chance of winning a game vs NesTea unless he abuses ugly early game all-in mechanics. and you know that how? stfu -.- | ||
LostDevil
Fiji282 Posts
Is it to compensate for mechanics being easier that they feel they need to speed everything up by making start positions closer and maps smaller than in BW? If 85% of the maps were bigger maps I don't think we would be having this specific balance discussion right now. | ||
xVeta
United States38 Posts
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Wings
United States999 Posts
On December 07 2010 05:28 Gotmog wrote: The problem i see is that we just had a worse player winning. + The player who said that he didn't even have time to practice, so he just did this. + NesTea knew what was coming. That is a clear balance problem in my eyes. If you are a better player that is constantly practicing vs the cheese build that you KNOW that is coming. You should not lose. Thats just it. Not discussion about it. Whether late game ZvT is imbalanced towards zerg, or it's just that T refuse to practice macro games as much as Zerg , when they have so much safer and easier time in early game is another question. And That SHOULD be addressed after some nerfs to marine/scv all ins. I am all FOR keeping cheese/rushes/all ins in the game, but it should not be so easy/effective to do even when scouted and prepared for. P.S I don't know why are ppl still getting impressed with marine micro. (not counting micro vs banelings) This is a ridiculous post for several reasons. If the better player deserved to win all the time, why do we even have games??? Starcraft is a game where upsets happen ALL THE TIME. Bisu vs Savior. Bisu vs Shine (in the other way). Kwanro's entire life (lol jk... kinda). If you don't know these people, uh... The point is a worse player can pull out a strategy and win. You think this build is NOT DEFENDABLE? Then why doesn't every single damn terran in the world do this build if you CAN'T lose? Haven't you considered the possibility that there are counters to this build? Firstly, if NesTea knew about it, he clearly failed in executing, or still did the blind risk of a 14hatch. Also, if he didn't know about it, well, that's just an issue of scouting and his risk-taking on no information. There is no such thing as a guaranteed victory. Even if you know everything and you're better than the other player, your choices and your risks that you take, coupled with whether you actually executed perfectly, decide the entire outcome of the game. | ||
Somnolence
Lithuania127 Posts
On December 07 2010 06:44 bokeevboke wrote: Now my point is: if 90% of viewers don't like these games is there any point of broadcasting. People won't watch something they don't like. Which means less sponsors -> no future for SC2. Please open your mind. Clearly the balance team of Blizzard are not doing good job. One-sided games with the same tactics that have not much to do with skill but game mechanics that allow them are just plain awful to watch. And I'm not talking about these SCV allins only. There are way too many situations where you can safely tell that one player already lost and there is nothing he can do about this and this will just drag for several minutes. I just want that the games would be more thrilling, with back and forth action all over the place and that players could overcome unfavorable situations with skill for epic comebacks. I just want to enjoy watching pros playing amazing games. Is that too much to ask from e-sports title? | ||
Lokian
United States699 Posts
So nerfing all-ins would make the game MORE boring in my opinion. Variety is good... And Nestea should have played more safely. It's hard to believe he doesn't pool first much and got this far in GSL. Although, I do believe terran early-all-in> protoss/zerg all-ins because of the mule and terran defense. | ||
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