I play zerg so i am sad to see two of the best zerg drooping out, but if it helps paves the way for LiquidJinro to get to the finals i will be happy.
Koreans React to GSL Ro8 - Page 32
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abaddon
United States8 Posts
I play zerg so i am sad to see two of the best zerg drooping out, but if it helps paves the way for LiquidJinro to get to the finals i will be happy. | ||
kawatan
288 Posts
everyone should be doing everything they can to win, short of cheating. timings, harass, all ins, cheese, what have you. entertainment? blame nestea for not defending spectacularly. people who complain about cheese are always the ones who cant defend against it. you will get punished for being either ignorant or arrogant in your expectations of what the opponent can and will do. | ||
coldasice
Australia208 Posts
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GambleVII
126 Posts
On December 07 2010 03:14 Chill wrote: As soon as you "want to see amazing games", you set up some WWE system where it's not people trying to win, but trying to put on a show. I want people doing anything in their power to win. I want people playing the dirtiest games you've ever seen in your life because it's their best chance to win. And, as a side effect of this, when people do show amazing, drawn-out games, they will be that much more special because of the rarity. Yes i totaly agree. Im sorry but this is a job to them. If i could cannon rush my opponents and win GSL 3 I would not even bother to apologize. Its simple Play to Win... Thats like going to your job, and not doing everything in your power to get a promotion. Its life its their income.. Do what you gotta do. Maybee it is a balance issue, with FE are supposed to be risky but in the same sense, if your Z v T u have to play in one way... It seems to me like balance is fine its just that 2 of the races posses lower options compared to terran. | ||
arsenic
United States163 Posts
On December 07 2010 10:59 out4blood wrote: Everyone is quoting Idra and Ret as if God has spoken and that 14 Hatch is the best build. That's coming from two of the greediest macro zergs around, so it's not surprising. I don't hear anyone quoting Artosis, who is a little more balanced, when he says that 14 hatch is too risky and that the safer build is gas first for quick speedlings or, if you do go 14 hatch, blind counter with a baneling nest or 2 spine crawlers. 14 Hatch being the best build has nothing to do with being greedy or anything. It is simply the best response to the 2 rax build... And you don't have time to build a Baneling Nest. Your Spawning Pool just finished >.> | ||
DonKey_
Liechtenstein1356 Posts
On December 07 2010 11:19 arsenic wrote: 14 Hatch being the best build has nothing to do with being greedy or anything. It is simply the best response to the 2 rax build... And you don't have time to build a Baneling Nest. Your Spawning Pool just finished >.> O.o I'm confused you just said 14 hatch is the direct counter to the 2 rax, when the reason all the terran's are 2 raxing now to begin with is because zerg's 14 hatch. It seems that the opposite is true. | ||
lowercase
Canada1047 Posts
On December 07 2010 11:19 arsenic wrote: 14 Hatch being the best build has nothing to do with being greedy or anything. It is simply the best response to the 2 rax build... And you don't have time to build a Baneling Nest. Your Spawning Pool just finished >.> All fast expand builds (which obviously include 14-hatch) are greedy, and it's sensible that they can be crushed with early pressure. The game should be so. Silly zergs thought they could FE safely thanks to reaper nerfs... well, hate to tell you, but it's always a calculated risk. I don't deny that zerg needs to expand quickly - they should just be aware of what could happen to them in close positions if they do so. | ||
Sempiternity
United States62 Posts
When your playing for thousands of dollars and your future career and you play for a team with coaches and sponsors. Win the game. I dont care if you gotta wear womens clothing while attacking with 6lings and 6 drones while flashing a laser pointer in the opponents eyes... Win the game. Its Nesteas fault.. Zerg can beat those things for loss in economy. He got greedy. $$$GG$$$.. no re hahah | ||
space_yes
United States548 Posts
On December 07 2010 11:19 arsenic wrote: 14 Hatch being the best build has nothing to do with being greedy or anything. It is simply the best response to the 2 rax build... And you don't have time to build a Baneling Nest. Your Spawning Pool just finished >.> The baneling nest is the immediate follow up after defending with 2 spines. | ||
mookku
Finland39 Posts
On December 07 2010 11:10 kawatan wrote: no need to apologize everyone should be doing everything they can to win, short of cheating. timings, harass, all ins, cheese, what have you. entertainment? blame nestea for not defending spectacularly. people who complain about cheese are always the ones who cant defend against it. you will get punished for being either ignorant or arrogant in your expectations of what the opponent can and will do. I do agree there's no need to apologize since the game is what makes this bullshit possible - but it really REALLY is bullshit if an all-in, which even a brainless friggin' zombie monkey could pull off, crushes really talented players at over 50% win percentage. This clearly has everything to do with maps with short rush distance as someone mentioned earlier on. Thus the map pool really needs to be changed drastically or at least give the players veto rights to avoid this bullshit in high profile tournaments. And before someone starts flaming me on the 14 hatch business, just try to defend that as zerg against an opponent that has enough brains NOT to pull that all-in if he scouts you sitting on 1 base with a fast roach warren (on steppes or meta close position for example)... I doubt you will get over 50% success rate what ever you do, and still your opponent needs no real skill to pull those wins off of you. Does it feel fair? Even a later hatch like 14 pool 21 hatch or something similar is not an option.. when your opponent sees the hatch go down at 21 food, he has an army that will crush yours and at least kill off the hatch and there just is nothing you can do about it with 1 base production, since you can't even place spines next to your hatch before it finishes (maybe creep spawn before hatch finishes would help this?). It's either fast hatch or 1 base all-in for zerg, and considering terrans always wall in, the correct choice here is almost always a fast hatch. | ||
nihoh
Australia978 Posts
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TLurker
51 Posts
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On December 07 2010 11:24 lowercase wrote: All fast expand builds (which obviously include 14-hatch) are greedy, and it's sensible that they can be crushed with early pressure. The game should be so. Silly zergs thought they could FE safely thanks to reaper nerfs... well, hate to tell you, but it's always a calculated risk. I don't deny that zerg needs to expand quickly - they should just be aware of what could happen to them in close positions if they do so. Sums it up for me. If hatch first would be free of risk it would be bad design. You play to win and if the opponent opens with a greedy economic build then by all means punish him. Thing is, Zerg are now so used to heavy economy play (that leads to a crushing advantage late game) that they think getting on 10x bases with 100x drones is how a Zerg game has to look like. Most of the time Terran will put heavy pressure and even all ins because current Terran late game is weak, both against Zerg and Protoss. It is as simple as that. | ||
dtz
5834 Posts
I understand the disappointment about watching boring repetitive all in games but i don't understand the double standard. (or maybe they did bash fruitdealer equally hard?) i doubt it though. | ||
uSnAmplified
United States1029 Posts
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lowercase
Canada1047 Posts
Really, really hoping oGsMC and Jinro move on tomorrow too. It will be nice to see some top-tier PvT again. | ||
ArtOfRandom
United States36 Posts
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LeetGoose
Canada32 Posts
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Ryhn
United States509 Posts
On December 07 2010 11:46 ArtOfRandom wrote: Some people keep claiming that 14 hatch is the safest build against 2 rax because of larvae or because of creep or because idra said so or whatever, but where's the proof? I sadly have no proof, but when Ret and IdrA - two of the best foreigner macro zergs - put their heads together to solve the problem of 2rax pressure, I listen to their conclusion. In this case, they seem to have agreed that it is safest to 14hatch vs 2rax. For now, until proven otherwise, that's good enough for me. | ||
Nearsite00
United States31 Posts
On December 07 2010 11:47 LeetGoose wrote: Rain deserves no hate at all for how he played. It's not hi's job to entertain the viewers. He is there to win. If Nestea can't defend the rush then too bad for him. Rain isn't going to go to late-game and potentially lose so people don't complain. I agree with you 100%. Why wouldn't you use every advantage you have to defeat your opponent, especially when there's money on the line. It's their job to win people. | ||
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