I do want to see longer games though, i want more of a defensive advantage like there is in scbw but at the moment we don't have that so you can't play sc2 as you do scbw and that is true for all three races.
Koreans React to GSL Ro8 - Page 39
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pezit
Sweden302 Posts
I do want to see longer games though, i want more of a defensive advantage like there is in scbw but at the moment we don't have that so you can't play sc2 as you do scbw and that is true for all three races. | ||
Lylat
France8566 Posts
It's called a STRATEGY game guys a player will do everything in order to win and not providing beautiful games | ||
Rifty
Canada76 Posts
If you have a very high, say 80%, chance at winning a game if you attack RIGHT NOW, why would you not do so? Especially when you know later on in the game the chance of winning can only go down towards 50%.. | ||
bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
Why not 14 hatch in your base right at the ramp and then immediately follow it up with a couple of spine crawlers right there? It seems like the crawlers would resolve the bunker contain issue and you wouldn't even have to make many zerglings, but it's just a thought. Comments? Nope. bunker block is not for keeping zerg in the base whole time. Terran will leave your ramp way before than your hatch in main will finish. Damage is already done. From that point terran will just make 1base timing push or expand then 2 base timing push. Either way zerg has little chance to catchup and survive. Putting two spine crawlers is the worst thing you can do . If anything would work, its nydus network from one base which fails most of the time, or mass ling/baneling, which also has small chance to win. As soon as terran scans your base he will just make a cloaked banshee and wallof. | ||
BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
On December 07 2010 17:09 pezit wrote: I find it hilarious that people actually believe that hatch first is the best way to defend from early pressure. How can the most economical start also be the strongest defensively? it makes no sense at all and no one with a brain is gonna believe that to be true. Maybe us protoss should start arguing that 15 nexus is the strongest early defense we can have and then when we start losing we ask for nerfs to the other races cause they're obviously overpowered. I do want to see longer games though, i want more of a defensive advantage like there is in scbw but at the moment we don't have that so you can't play sc2 as you do scbw and that is true for all three races. why do you doubt others when you simply dont understand Z at all? reason why a hatch first is good at holding most of these pushes: - creep. without creep you cant use queens, nonspeed lings and banes are completly useless - no creep no spinecrawler - additional larva for defensive units - push hits a established hatch with creep + queen + maybe a crawler instead of a naked morphing hatch -gives something to fall back on creep is insanely important to a Z. and you simply ignore that a hatch is a production building. not to talk about all the midgame issues you might have if the push doesnt come and your enemy just pokes and expands. but ofc it depends on the timing and what kind of rush it is (a 14 hatch obv isnt gonna do better when he just comes with his first 4 marines and all scvs) | ||
Chicane
United States7875 Posts
That being said, I do agree that something needs to be done so that when a zerg player sees "oh, they are going to cheese me" that they have a significant advantage. I don't know if it is a balance issue or a play style issue, but something seems to be wrong. It feels that it is more likely to be a balance issue simply because there hasn't been an solutions yet. I won't pretend like a month is a long time, but it should be enough for at least one notable player to come up with a strong counter to the terran all ins, but it could also be both. | ||
Vei
United States2845 Posts
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mavyric
Taiwan104 Posts
Using the best stratagy available means you are actually using your head and not playing to appease the masses. I would much rather these be legit fights of life and death instead of trying to drawout the matches and do "entertaining games" ala pro-wrestling style.... But I guess that's what you have to accept in the age of internet raging. | ||
goto
45 Posts
First of all, all-ins have been part of every single RTS game I've played. Old school Warcraft II, SC, AOE, Rise of Nations, Supreme Commander etc. They're a plague but hardly new. They're a part of RTS games. Secondly, players like NesTea have obviously not perfected defensive micro. Stuff like letting the bunker "live" when they could have killed it and so on. I don't think you can whine about an all-in when you're defense is lackluster. | ||
Jugan
United States1566 Posts
As Herm Edwards infamously said: You play to win the game. While the manner in which he said it was mocked, the truth of his words still hold. | ||
-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
If you remember afterward Morrow said 5rax reaper is too powerful in a kind of apologetic manner. Rain does not need to apologize for using the tools given to him to its full, but it is good that he understands that there is something wrong with this opening and tells that to everyone. I see this apology as his way of doing so. As for all of you screaming this is normal, I am sure many were screaming the same before SCVs or roaches were nerfed in Beta, and I know many were screaming the same before reapers were nerfed. Also, lets not forget how early marines own protoss as well. Maybe, just maybe some Zergs find a good counter to this, but I feel just like reapers none will be had and this will need to be solved by Blizzard. At the moment this is hurting the spectator side of Sc2. I for one lost all interest in watching ZvT games and I am a zerg player even. And I am sure I am not the only one. Also you all need to know that Zergs are again not doing good in tournaments. In EU and NA they are getting stomped, and now in GSL none in Ro4. Unlike toss that didn't get to ro4 in GSL1&2 but were still winning or doing good in tournaments in EU and NA!! | ||
anatem
Romania1369 Posts
1. bad blizz maps, period. just check out the two best sets of the gsl 3, mc vs july and clide vs leenock 3rd sets, both on shakuras, coincidence ? 1a-2. greedy zerg, ye, don't fe all the time, true, it's been called a million times, when the maps are the way they are, don't be that greedy all the time, or if you are, be prepared to hold it, like ret and idra were for ex. (before map positions kicked in, hur-hur) as for the qq on nestea being the better player or not seeing what you wanted to see for your season ticket, WHAT? all i gotta say is e-sports , sports, yes, you know, sometimes your favorite loses, sometimes your favorite team plays like shit when you go to the stadium, it's how it goes, you can opt to not support them, not buy tickets, that's it | ||
Metalwing
Turkey1038 Posts
On December 07 2010 17:21 Chicane wrote: I don't think it should be a matter of "Since I am paying to watch, no one should be allowed to cheese so I can see the long games I want to." No, it's actually a matter of "This is bullshit. I won't pay even 0.99 to watch this until this stops.". Put yourself in the place of a casual viewer who does not play the game and only watches free VODs. "Let's check marineking vs leenock: cheese. OK, there may be better games. Let's check HongUn vs Naya: Cheese. Well, still there may be better games. Rain vs NesTea: cheese. I don't even understand why these players so called leenock, naya and NesTea play that race. They can pick the other races and cheese their way to 100m. And you know what, this cheese stopped being fun. I'm out of here." On "good marine micro": What is good marine micro ffs? Split marines and drink water until marines kill everything? (foxer vs leenock, shakuras plateau) Good marine micro is what you see on Flash vs Soulkey. Or, if we're talking about good micro and not for the particular example of marines, you can watch Bisu vs Kal (STX vs SKT, Proleague R2 season 2010-2011, ace match) and cry "holy fucking shit" all the way you want when you see Kal's shuttle micro and shield battery usage. Yes, there is cheese in BW as well, but cheese is not the most and only viable option in any particular match up. My 2 cents, but in ESPORTS Dollars currency. | ||
TheButtonmen
Canada1401 Posts
[ 1a-2. greedy zerg, ye, don't fe all the time, true, it's been called a million times, when the maps are the way they are, don't be that greedy all the time, or if you are, be prepared to hold it, like ret and idra were for ex. (before map positions kicked in, hur-hur) Once agian 14 Hatch is if not the safest one of the safest builds for zerg, it's not a greedy build at all, Zerg needs the creep spread. | ||
StormsInJuly
Sweden165 Posts
On December 07 2010 17:09 DeltruS wrote: Imagine if boxer did that the entire tournament and it was very hard to beat. He did do it every single game vs yellow that's why it was legendary Bunker rush cheeses are a lot more interesting to watch than macro wars | ||
dabom88
United States3483 Posts
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mmdmmd
722 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
What's been greedy has been larva/drone usage. If people want to understand Z better, they should read Day9's article on the Economy of Larva. Execution obviously plays a big role but most of the Zs that dropped due to 2Rax did not conserve larva or were late/misplaced their Spine Crawlers. It might still be an issue, but it's not something you can judge solely from GSL games because the Zs have not been executing properly. | ||
Achilles
Canada385 Posts
Anyone who's going to sabotage themselves "for the good of spectating" is an idiot. Anyone who says they'd rather do that is also an idiot, and probably lying. | ||
Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On December 07 2010 23:51 Jibba wrote: What's been greedy has been larva/drone usage. If people want to understand Z better, they should read Day9's article on the Economy of Larva. Execution obviously plays a big role but most of the Zs that dropped due to 2Rax did not conserve larva or were late/misplaced their Spine Crawlers. Yeah. How many Zergs have we seen producing full out drones when they know that the opponent has his army intact, thus an attack is possible. They do this because if that attack does not come, then they are very ahead in economy but, it is a risk, as it should. | ||
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