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On July 19 2011 10:18 Odal wrote: People seem to over exaggerate when it comes to the difficulty of bw. Maybe it was because I was already master league in sc2 the first time I played iccup, but it was not a difficult thing for me. I'm nothing special but I can easily maintain D with half decent mechanics playing 1 or 2 games every few days.
Sorry to break it to you but maintaining D doesn't actually mean that your a great player.
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Well D is ok like in Bnet you could beat most of the guys similarly to how in DC2 masters beats most guys but loses. Maybe DC1 has a bit more layers but bottom line is both are decent imo.
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What do you mean you're thinking of playing iCCup.. just do it..
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On July 19 2011 10:30 puppykiller wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2011 10:18 Odal wrote: People seem to over exaggerate when it comes to the difficulty of bw. Maybe it was because I was already master league in sc2 the first time I played iccup, but it was not a difficult thing for me. I'm nothing special but I can easily maintain D with half decent mechanics playing 1 or 2 games every few days. Sorry to break it to you but maintaining D doesn't actually mean that your a great player.
... lol, D is the starting rank....
D D+ C- C C+ B- B B+ A- A A+ ..... long way to go to be "good" at bw
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On July 19 2011 15:19 Galaxy_Zerg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2011 10:30 puppykiller wrote:On July 19 2011 10:18 Odal wrote: People seem to over exaggerate when it comes to the difficulty of bw. Maybe it was because I was already master league in sc2 the first time I played iccup, but it was not a difficult thing for me. I'm nothing special but I can easily maintain D with half decent mechanics playing 1 or 2 games every few days. Sorry to break it to you but maintaining D doesn't actually mean that your a great player. ... lol, D is the starting rank.... D D+ C- C C+ B- B B+ A- A A+ ..... long way to go to be "good" at bw Well, if you can at least get to and maintain C-, you won't be a noob. And I think anywhere from B- and up (maybe even C+ and up), you're really good.
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Haha "maintain D" you need 30-40% winrate at D level to maintain it. That's really poor.
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On July 19 2011 17:11 hellbound wrote: Haha "maintain D" you need 30-40% winrate at D level to maintain it. That's really poor.
I'm not saying sit at pro level. But people are acting like it's normal to lose 40 games in a row when they start. You can sit at a 50%ish win rate if you actually play.
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i used to play on wgtour back in 03-05 and was b4-5 terran, what would that equal out to on iccup if i played at the same level?
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On July 20 2011 23:46 Odal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2011 17:11 hellbound wrote: Haha "maintain D" you need 30-40% winrate at D level to maintain it. That's really poor. I'm not saying sit at pro level. But people are acting like it's normal to lose 40 games in a row when they start. You can sit at a 50%ish win rate if you actually play. Losing your first 10-100 games is normal on iccup. I got my first win after 12 consecutive losses.
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On July 21 2011 04:50 Magus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 23:46 Odal wrote:On July 19 2011 17:11 hellbound wrote: Haha "maintain D" you need 30-40% winrate at D level to maintain it. That's really poor. I'm not saying sit at pro level. But people are acting like it's normal to lose 40 games in a row when they start. You can sit at a 50%ish win rate if you actually play. Losing your first 10-100 games is normal on iccup. I got my first win after 12 consecutive losses.
18 for me. I win at consecutive losses!
last 2 days I have about an 90% win record vs terran and 0% vs protoss and 5% vs zerg lol. I should be given a prolicense and hired by one of the korean teams just to take down flash!
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On July 19 2011 10:18 Odal wrote: People seem to over exaggerate when it comes to the difficulty of bw. Maybe it was because I was already master league in sc2 the first time I played iccup, but it was not a difficult thing for me. I'm nothing special but I can easily maintain D with half decent mechanics playing 1 or 2 games every few days.
It also depends what time zone
If I play at my normal time I end up having to vs koreans all day so I have a much lower win rate than if I play at odd hours.
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On July 21 2011 08:00 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2011 10:18 Odal wrote: People seem to over exaggerate when it comes to the difficulty of bw. Maybe it was because I was already master league in sc2 the first time I played iccup, but it was not a difficult thing for me. I'm nothing special but I can easily maintain D with half decent mechanics playing 1 or 2 games every few days. It also depends what time zone If I play at my normal time I end up having to vs koreans all day so I have a much lower win rate than if I play at odd hours.
People always say this but i honestly believe that korean hours are no harder. I ladder on and off korean hours and just as there are bad foreigners... there are bad koreans.
The gap is only noticeable at higher levels
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On July 19 2011 17:11 hellbound wrote: Haha "maintain D" you need 30-40% winrate at D level to maintain it. That's really poor. The D ladder is full of smurfs nowadays. I usually ask "best rank?" midgame, and the average answer is C- to C+.
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On July 19 2011 10:18 Odal wrote: People seem to over exaggerate when it comes to the difficulty of bw. Maybe it was because I was already master league in sc2 the first time I played iccup, but it was not a difficult thing for me. I'm nothing special but I can easily maintain D with half decent mechanics playing 1 or 2 games every few days. Oh yeah? Want to know how easy iCCup and BW really are? + Show Spoiler + Seriously though...
I'm not saying sit at pro level. But people are acting like it's normal to lose 40 games in a row when they start. You can sit at a 50%ish win rate if you actually play. You were master league in SC2, and D at BW. I'm not sure how you found a correlation there which demonstrates your point.
Let's say a person hasn't had much experience with RTS, or was casual at best. You think that if a masters league player of SC2 can only 'maintain' D at BW, the aforementioned inexperienced RTS gamer shouldn't lose 70-100% of the time? Say huh?
It seems to me like you're trying put pressure on or belittle RTS beginners, all of whom will lose about 90% of their games at iCCup (and elsewhere) for a long time. Or maybe you have some grudge against what you think are elitist iCCup/TL players. Whatever your reasons, I hope anyone getting into competitive SC won't pay attention to what you've said. BW is hard. iCCup is hard. No one should feel bad about losing 100 out of 100, or about sitting at D, D-, E for a while.
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I hope its okay to post here because I do not want to open a new thread just for this.
I just wanted to ask if there is anybody who is a totally beginner at Brood War and would like to play few games with me? Would be nice to see some responses.
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im kind of beginner. i've won some games, im like 10-50. if you literally havent played at all, even sc2, i would recommend practicing playing the computer several times to at least get your macro and ability to keep your money low acceptable meaning games will at least be competitive.
also remember to forward your ports (6112 port?) if starting so that it lets you host games and stuff.
add LePianoDentist on iccup if you want to play a few games against me
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On July 25 2011 07:25 ThePianoDentist wrote: im kind of beginner. i've won some games, im like 10-50. if you literally havent played at all, even sc2, i would recommend practicing playing the computer several times to at least get your macro and ability to keep your money low acceptable meaning games will at least be competitive.
also remember to forward your ports (6112 port?) if starting so that it lets you host games and stuff.
add LePianoDentist on iccup if you want to play a few games against me This. I can consistently own the AI (straight up macro, no weird builds, no cheese) to the point where I haven't lost vs comp in 20 games.
I'm 1-23 on iCCup. If you can't beat the AI consistently, don't even think about iCCup yet. Or, more like, don't even think about winning on iCCup yet.
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United Arab Emirates5090 Posts
On July 29 2011 06:16 djbhINDI wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 07:25 ThePianoDentist wrote: im kind of beginner. i've won some games, im like 10-50. if you literally havent played at all, even sc2, i would recommend practicing playing the computer several times to at least get your macro and ability to keep your money low acceptable meaning games will at least be competitive.
also remember to forward your ports (6112 port?) if starting so that it lets you host games and stuff.
add LePianoDentist on iccup if you want to play a few games against me This. I can consistently own the AI (straight up macro, no weird builds, no cheese) to the point where I haven't lost vs comp in 20 games. I'm 1-23 on iCCup. If you can't beat the AI consistently, don't even think about iCCup yet. Or, more like, don't even think about winning on iCCup yet. I would say don't even bother iccup until you can straight up roll over 2 computers with macro easily.
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On July 29 2011 10:07 pyrogenetix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2011 06:16 djbhINDI wrote:On July 25 2011 07:25 ThePianoDentist wrote: im kind of beginner. i've won some games, im like 10-50. if you literally havent played at all, even sc2, i would recommend practicing playing the computer several times to at least get your macro and ability to keep your money low acceptable meaning games will at least be competitive.
also remember to forward your ports (6112 port?) if starting so that it lets you host games and stuff.
add LePianoDentist on iccup if you want to play a few games against me This. I can consistently own the AI (straight up macro, no weird builds, no cheese) to the point where I haven't lost vs comp in 20 games. I'm 1-23 on iCCup. If you can't beat the AI consistently, don't even think about iCCup yet. Or, more like, don't even think about winning on iCCup yet. I would say don't even bother iccup until you can straight up roll over 2 computers with macro easily.
Uh, that seems a little inaccurate. Computers do not play like humans at all, and the BroodWar AI is actually really bad. Playing 2, 3, 4 or however many computers will absolutely not prepare one for playing against people.
The AI, however, can provide someone with a skeleton framework of how to play. For example, let's say you play against a Protoss AI. The AI will send out 10 Zealots at a set time (I don't remember the exact time anymore) and then expand. When I started playing BroodWar, this would always kill me. I would try all kinds of tricks to hold it off, like building 15 Photon Cannons to kill the Zealots. The problem with this is that I would be scared of the Zealots attacking right from the moment I started the game. I would be like "omg, zealots are coming, I need to defend myself" so I would build a Forge right away and start making Cannons right away. As I started to play more, I finally realized that the computer always attacks at the same time every game, so I realized I could make more Probes early on, and then could worry about defending the attack later.
This type of realization is the result of pattern recognition, which is an important part of playing against human opponents. The problem is, when playing with an AI, the AI has maybe 1-2 strategies per race (unless you download some AIs or make your own) but human strategies, per race, can branch off into many different directions, so being able to recognize strategies, and execute your own, takes repetition, and repetition takes patience. So would I recommend playing against other people? Absolutely. There's a lot more to StarCraft than just macroing.
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On July 29 2011 12:02 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2011 10:07 pyrogenetix wrote:On July 29 2011 06:16 djbhINDI wrote:On July 25 2011 07:25 ThePianoDentist wrote: im kind of beginner. i've won some games, im like 10-50. if you literally havent played at all, even sc2, i would recommend practicing playing the computer several times to at least get your macro and ability to keep your money low acceptable meaning games will at least be competitive.
also remember to forward your ports (6112 port?) if starting so that it lets you host games and stuff.
add LePianoDentist on iccup if you want to play a few games against me This. I can consistently own the AI (straight up macro, no weird builds, no cheese) to the point where I haven't lost vs comp in 20 games. I'm 1-23 on iCCup. If you can't beat the AI consistently, don't even think about iCCup yet. Or, more like, don't even think about winning on iCCup yet. I would say don't even bother iccup until you can straight up roll over 2 computers with macro easily. Uh, that seems a little inaccurate. Computers do not play like humans at all, and the BroodWar AI is actually really bad. Playing 2, 3, 4 or however many computers will absolutely not prepare one for playing against people. The AI, however, can provide someone with a skeleton framework of how to play. For example, let's say you play against a Protoss AI. The AI will send out 10 Zealots at a set time (I don't remember the exact time anymore) and then expand. When I started playing BroodWar, this would always kill me. I would try all kinds of tricks to hold it off, like building 15 Photon Cannons to kill the Zealots. The problem with this is that I would be scared of the Zealots attacking right from the moment I started the game. I would be like "omg, zealots are coming, I need to defend myself" so I would build a Forge right away and start making Cannons right away. As I started to play more, I finally realized that the computer always attacks at the same time every game, so I realized I could make more Probes early on, and then could worry about defending the attack later. This type of realization is the result of pattern recognition, which is an important part of playing against human opponents. The problem is, when playing with an AI, the AI has maybe 1-2 strategies per race (unless you download some AIs or make your own) but human strategies, per race, can branch off into many different directions, so being able to recognize strategies, and execute your own, takes repetition, and repetition takes patience. So would I recommend playing against other people? Absolutely. There's a lot more to StarCraft than just macroing.
agreed to a point for example computer terran always does an early medic and marine push whereas pretty much no low level terran humans will do this. i found for practice it was best to play zerg ai, occasionally they would zergling rush...or maybe i was just woefully underprepared back then...but theyre usually quite stand-off-ish and allow you to focus on macroing, pumping units and aggressively expanding.
but i disagree in that i feel to start with for the first several games there is just macroing, yes maybe some strategies will be better than others but for your very first games chances are whatever strategy you were using you would have lost anyway just due to simple macro things like not constant probe production, supply blocking, banking minerals so not having a large enough army, turtling rather than expanding so being multiple bases behind. theres not much point analysing your and your opponents strategy if he was just able to produce double the units of you
but yes definitely once you notice in post-game results your resources spent is getting as big as your opponent, if not more, and then still losing its time to look at build orders and strategies...unless you both had awful macro
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