Free StarCraft strategy book - Page 2
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Ryo
8787 Posts
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lingboy87
United States41 Posts
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iloveav
Poland1464 Posts
In starcraft 2 counters are too one sided. This is why in finals of something like CODE A GSL, you see players scouting each 20 seconds. Also compare workers build time 26 to 17. Only that changes the game massivly. How many times you see in pro gaming sc2 players with over 1000 minerals while not maxed, not with their full required tech, not with enought control over the map.... In starcraft 1, as far as i remmber, the only reason to bank money was zerg switch to Ultras, becouse with toss or terran, a switch HAD to be progresive, or you would die before you had the units vs very good oponents. On the "who would be the best sc2 player" question i think we see the answer everyday. There is no way to stay on top for a long while. Fruitdealer, Nestea, MVP, MMA, MC, Idra, Tester, HUK.... all of them were owned nice and clean more than once once they had been figured out. Really, its hard to have a player on top if getting a "standart" build is basicly putting a rope around your neck. | ||
gu-val
59 Posts
Also compare workers build time 26 to 17. Dont quite get those numbers. In sc:bw, worker build time is 20. On fastest, this is equal to 14seconds. | ||
pyrogenetix
United Arab Emirates5090 Posts
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Necosarius
Sweden4042 Posts
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TheGlassface
United States612 Posts
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playa
United States1284 Posts
So, I scouted after making my pylon. The first base I scouted was the one with the closest drop proximity to me, because the worst possible scenario is scouting that base last and having no idea of whether he is going for a drop or not. You don't want to have to alter your build over an unknown when you could simply have found out by scouting there first. I also scout early because, if the opportunity arises, I want to pylon their factory to delay when mines will be researched. I did that this game. This simple pylon block guaranteed that I could use 1 DT to slow down his expansion time. So, I opened with 1 DT in hopes to delay his expansion timing. If he went to attack me with a rush, I could use the DT defensively. This 1 DT basically allowed me to also expo off only a few units. So, now I have slowed his expo down while quickly getting an expo myself. He's so already lost the game. He's compounding the problem by having to build additional turrets. My thinking shifts to he has lost the game, "it's time to just secure the win." I ended up making a cannon at my main base and my natural, before taking my third. This is something you only do when you either have to, or when you have the luxury of being able to. One of my main goals in PVT is to get arbiters out as quickly as possible, without being vulnerable to timing attacks. I went 2 gate, speedlots then Stargate this game (I believe). This zealot time had more to do with securing a won game; normally, I find 3 gates, then researching speedlots, and then making a stargate to be the optimal timing. Very strong. Once I know I'm not vulnerable to any large attacks and I have the units to not be spread too thin when dealing with vult harass, I take my third. When going fast arbiters, having a fast third is usually always bad. It just invites them to attack you, and it will be before you have an arbiter out. You want to play to your build's strength. The goal against a Terran that is having to play on the defensive but has taken a fast third is to always try to recall his main as soon as you have 150 energy. It's not even really possible to defend this recall: if you make the required amount of turrets to kill/stop an arbiter at that stage in the game, you will have no units. I'll take every expo on the map with no resistance. So, the inevitable happens, my units are in his base. I'm going to abuse the fact that he's having to defend attacks by taking the map on him. If he's defending he can't attack me. Now, I have my expos and it's time to abuse the fact that I can make him be spread too thin. I recall the natural, and then I gear up my army to go after his third. He can't attack and he can't defend anything without sacrificing something else. That's a losing proposition. GG. It's important to think about the reasons a player does something and not obsess so much on build orders, as there are a lot of maps and optimal builds change. But, it's important to know how to accomplish the same objectives, even if you need to tweak the order of your buildings or the timing of things. For those wondering what the standard forge timing and upgrading timing is... You make your forge so it is timed to finish shortly before your third is up. Then you make cannons at your third and usually try to take your fourth expansion before making cannons at your natural or elsewhere. The less spread out you are, the less reason for cannons, and our priority is to get ahead macro wise, thus another expansion is more important. I start upgrading, normally, after making cannons at my third. Hopefully some found this helpful. | ||
playa
United States1284 Posts
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Miwyfe
England101 Posts
The goal against a Terran that is having to play on the defensive but has taken a fast third is to always try to recall his main as soon as you have 150 energy. It's not even really possible to defend this recall: if you make the required amount of turrets to kill/stop an arbiter at that stage in the game, you will have no units. I'll take every expo on the map with no resistance. I disagree with this (as always Im talking about korean pro play). Great stuff though, thanks for sharing all this hard work! | ||
djbhINDI
United States372 Posts
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dhe95
United States1213 Posts
On October 24 2011 00:51 Miwyfe wrote: I disagree with this (as always Im talking about korean pro play). Great stuff though, thanks for sharing all this hard work! if a terran does take a fast 3rd this recall can do a lot of damage. however, rushing for a recall timing should never be your main goal, you should be able to determine whether or not it is worth it. there will be terrans that are good enough to defend your recall with minimal losses and go on to counter push against that arbiter with no energy | ||
playa
United States1284 Posts
On October 24 2011 00:51 Miwyfe wrote: I disagree with this (as always Im talking about korean pro play). Great stuff though, thanks for sharing all this hard work! I'm not sure why you would disagree. I'm not being "haughty," I'm just not sure where you're coming from. Perhaps the confusion is on my part in how I worded what I said. I'm talking about my fast arbiter build, not standard arbiter timings. As a terran player, it's absolutely crippling to have to make turrets early in a game to defend against recalls. It will absolutely crush your supply count and leave you playing purely defensive until you can get 3-3 (f you can survive to that point). Since I view making turrets at that stage in the game to be suicide, I'm much more inclined to attack protoss and make them use arbiters defensively. A terran player who double expands and has their base recalled at that stage in the game is going to lose almost 100% of the time. They won't have the units to defend 3 locations, which a good player will make them try to. And, let's not forget that if they are occupied with defending, then a good toss player will abuse this by taking as many expos as he desires. If you're not making him make turrets or get science vessels before he wants to, you're giving him extra units. I don't know how that can be a positive for us, unless you're saying we're better off going all-in and using our arbiters to stasis his tanks/units. | ||
playa
United States1284 Posts
If enough people simply donate by making a free account at http://www.000webhost.com/509767.html I'll do something akin to poker coaching; in poker, coaches often times analyze a player's game and go over his "leaks," being weak spots in his play that cost him money. Well, I might not do that, but I would/will go through the ranks (say to c or c+), show the replays, and point out what I view as the "leaks" of the different ranks that we can exploit. I think it's always very beneficial to see people actually beat the levels that you're trying to. Also, knowing what your opponents are doing wrong can only expedite your progress towards beating that level, too. In the recent past, I've grown an affection for playing 1 mu and 1 map for a given time period. I find mixing it up to be distracting. So, I would just play the mu that most people want to see played and the map most people are interested in. These can be any mu's that aren't me as zerg. I have the most experience in tvp, pvt, and tvz; so, obviously, regardless of rank in other mu's, that might be more for entertainment/simply seeing ranks beat. I'm largely indifferent by nature. It's up to you guys. I do appreciate the support, though. That's a welcomed change, heh. Btw, when it comes to inspiration and seeing games that make you think "there are no rules, everything I was taught was a lie!" this game with Sea was it for me. I encourage some to check it out. A lot of stuff in this game was just so modern/new way of thinking to me. For one, I've never seen anyone try to defend against mutas without medics or gollies, or valks. I ended up taking it to the next level of having no medics or turrets, just vessels and marines. This game is just one of those games that makes you think. | ||
sheaRZerg
United States613 Posts
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playa
United States1284 Posts
I have to tell you though, this is incredibly difficult: a few months ago I broke my chair. I probably set a record for being the skinniest person to break a chair. Anyways, I'm now just playing in a regular chair without arm rests. People who say playing at lans for the first time is tough are 100% correct. I was absolutely dumbfounded when I went to WCG regionals and realized no chairs had arm rests. I don't know whether it's the height being off or if not having arm rests just inherently tires your arms and hurts your shoulders, but it's not a lot of fun. Plus, when my arms are not in a set position it makes accuracy on the keyboard so much harder, especially when you're never using home row, as it's not typing. How or why 99% of you play without arm rests is a mystery to me. Someone should make a guide on how to properly do this and explain why one should. | ||
XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6321 Posts
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playa
United States1284 Posts
On October 27 2011 10:45 XsebT wrote: Playa, this is awesome! Thank you so much man! Thanks/welcome. On October 27 2011 10:54 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: great work playa. sadly not much about zerg, and i think is very late to me learn new hotkeys Zerg is too complicated for me, ha. What am I supposed to do with 50 lings, along with all my other units? 1a2a3a4a5a6a7a9a0a? I don't have the apm or the pain threshold. Luckily, Day[9] is somehow amazing enough to pull this off and is able to articulate it all. It's quite the feat. I suggest either playing an easier race, lol, or checking out some of his material he has done in the past. A few weeks before I broke my chair or something, I went from mid c to b-, strictly through playing tvz. I might release those reps. A lot of games versus players above b-, so maybe you could study them to some degree. Anyways, I'm sorry for taking the cop out and not playing as zerg | ||
playa
United States1284 Posts
So, I just took my ISL replays. I looked up all the players on iccup, so the games have each players' high rank, so you know what level the other guy is. I also did an analysis on the objective/concept of my play, albeit a bit of a ramble. In the future, I might look at specific games between the ranks and add some stuff on that front, if any observations jump out at me. I do look forward to playing some tvz in the near future, as I feel my build is pretty much near optimal for Python, with the only real counter being to outplay me. Which isn't much of a counter, but not the hardest of feats when inactive, heh. Anyways, I'll change that for this. I find the build pretty fun, solid, and interesting. I look forward to getting that out of the way, as tvp is the really complicated mu, at least out of those that I play. I find that really interesting as that presents really challenging problems and things to consider. Anyways, it's going to work like this. If you want to view the replays or analysis, go to my site here and make a free (or pay) account and then message me on teamliquid.net or email me for the password to files. Note: I actually won't receive anything unless people actually are active with their site or whatever. That's not really an issue to me, though. This is just how this will work/experiment. If you do actually make a site, not there isn't any reason not to, you should make an account on my forum and simply post it/talk about it to bring it to others attention. Anyways, thanks! I just want to add that I definitely wasn't playing like nony. I have no idea why my apm was that low. Maybe it was boredom. Point is, this can help anyone that plays pvt, as this is purely strategical. | ||
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