New tactic in HotS: Terran Shredder Drops ?? - Page 3
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Teim
Australia373 Posts
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Eviscerador
Spain286 Posts
But yeah, it looks like the old pesky quote "damm, i have to deal with this shit TOO?" from zerg is back :D | ||
McNulty
Norway184 Posts
I mean, 8 stimmed marines have tons of DPS? They wipe out entire worker lines in seconds. Sure marines can't shoot at all of the workers at the same time (AOE), like the shredder can, but marines can move and _follow_ the workers when they run. Is there really such a huge difference in the amount of workers 8 stimmed microed marines do, and 1-2 shredders? | ||
Cyro
United Kingdom20157 Posts
Firstly, baneling drops require +2 melee which usually takes far longer to get than starport (ive seen then dropped before 5 mins quite a few times) and secondly, baneling drops are a one-time ammo deal, if you pull probes or sack 1 per baneling you are ahead, and it is over in 2-3 seconds if you react properly. A shredder drop, best case scenario, stops all mining for like 20 seconds, and worse case scenario kills all of your workers in 1.44 seconds of real time. | ||
Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On October 25 2011 16:47 ShotgunMike wrote: True, but the Shredder will stay in place. Even if you pull all your drones in time the Shredder will stay in place. You need to kill it somehow. And you will take losses. Even roaches will die or be wounded badly. The Storms loose effect and most of the times if workers are pulled in time banelings will do some damage but not too much. The point was more about the reaction time. People have to react to a baneling drop before it gets to the mineral line. 8seconds is a really long time, you can easily warpin enough units to kill it before it can even deploy and Zerg definitely can with creep. If you can't get rid of a Shredder in 8seconds then in the same scenario a blue flame hellion drop would completely clear you out A Shredder drop alone would be absolute garbage. A better idea would be to drop to a MM drop with a Shredder, sending the Shredder to the mineral line whilst the MM drop distracts the army. But then again, you can do the exact same thing with just two MM drops. Terran Mech also really doesn't have units like Marine/marauder/Medivac that are a pain in the ass to kill and are insanely efficient in small numbers | ||
ThePlayer33
Australia2378 Posts
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On October 25 2011 16:51 Teim wrote: Why dont Terran players just start dropping siege tanks into enemy bases? I mean, it has a faster setup time and does sick AoE damage. because they die in split-seconds vs speedlings/chargelots.... have you seen the shredder-demo-video? they murder lings like nothing I've ever seen before | ||
Cyro
United Kingdom20157 Posts
On October 25 2011 16:53 McNulty wrote: I don't get why this is so much more awesome than just a simple 8 marine drop? I mean, 8 stimmed marines have tons of DPS? They wipe out entire worker lines in seconds. Sure marines can't shoot at all of the workers at the same time (AOE), like the shredder can, but marines can move and _follow_ the workers when they run. Is there really such a huge difference in the amount of workers 8 stimmed microed marines do, and 1-2 shredders? 8 stimmed marines and a medivac can be cleaned up easily by a small muta flock, a small cloud of lings (20-25, very few losses) or even 1 baneling hit if they are cornered. A shredder cannot be killed by lings, if mutas run into its range and 1shot it they will loose 40hp each (33% of their health), roaches are killed VERY quickly, and without hydras on the field at that exact moment, zerg has no way to shut down a shredder without loosing pretty much his entire army. | ||
Angelbelow
United States3728 Posts
On October 25 2011 16:51 Teim wrote: Why dont Terran players just start dropping siege tanks into enemy bases? I mean, it has a faster setup time and does sick AoE damage. If you think about it, you should be able to realize why its different. Incase you have trouble, its because tanks in a seiged position will be surrounded by drones very quickly. Which will render the tank useless. A tank unsieged can easily be cleaned up by zerglings which wouldnt work on the shredder. | ||
Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
On October 25 2011 16:42 Dommk wrote: 8 seconds is a bit too long for it to be viable. A Shredder drop requires the Shredder to deploy for 8seconds after being dropped before it does its thing, and most likely you are going to expect to lose the unit. Now compare this to a baneling drop that can wipe out 80% of your probes in a mining base the very instant the unit is dropped from the Overlord. If Shredder drops are unforgiving them what does that make Baneling drops? Hell, even Templar drops have a much shorter time period where they need to get into position and cast the Storms to do damage and look how underused they are. In 8seconds a Marine drop could take out all the drones at a mining base and possibly bring the hatchery to near death You're not thinking in real game terms here. You can get a Shredder out at roughly the same time as you can get Medivacs. What does a Zerg typically have to deal with drops at that time? Lings. So you send a medivac with marines and a Shredder, unload them, and start sieging the Shredder behind the mineral line. When it's done, or when your Marines are threatened, you hop back into the medivac and leave. Nothing can mine at that base until a spine crawler is built or repositioned, and meanwhile the hatchery is eating 20dps. Edit: Are we sure it does no damage to buildings? | ||
Cyro
United Kingdom20157 Posts
On October 25 2011 16:54 Dommk wrote: The point was more about the reaction time. People have to react to a baneling drop before it gets to the mineral line. 8seconds is a really long time, you can easily warpin enough units to kill it before it can even deploy and Zerg definitely can with creep. If you can't get rid of a Shredder in 8seconds then in the same scenario a blue flame hellion drop would completely clear you out A Shredder drop alone would be absolute garbage. A better idea would be to drop to a MM drop with a Shredder, sending the Shredder to the mineral line whilst the MM drop distracts the army. But then again, you can do the exact same thing with just two MM drops. Terran Mech also really doesn't have units like Marine/marauder/Medivac that are a pain in the ass to kill and are insanely efficient in small numbers Warp in units? ASSUMING your warpgates are off cooldown, warping in units takes 5 seconds. With ZERO reaction time and warpgates off cooldown, you would have 3 seconds to kill the shredder before your units were standing in a psi storm. I think protoss can deal with them easily due to stalkers outranging them, as can terrans with marines, but zerg is getting shafted hard. | ||
Ravnemesteren
224 Posts
On October 25 2011 16:51 Teim wrote: Why dont Terran players just start dropping siege tanks into enemy bases? I mean, it has a faster setup time and does sick AoE damage. Several reasons. A siege tank cant hit stuff in melee range if sieged, so you can easily kill it off with workers. And secondly the aoe of the shredder is alot more potent. | ||
GGPope
Australia367 Posts
A zerg that watches the minimap will pull their drones away, and the shredder cannot chase them. As far as dealing with the shredder once it actually gets up, that is probably the tricky part. It depends how much damage it does, but I can imagine it being pretty tough. Overall I don't think it will be too hard to balance, and I don't imagine terrans doing it very often simply because you're almost guaranteed to lose the thing. | ||
BobMcJohnson
France2916 Posts
Shredders take 8 seconds to "siege up", plus the time it takes for the medivac to enter, drop them etc. i you don't react in all this time you DESERVE to lose your workers. Add to this, the shredder is 150/150, and since it has to be sieged/burrowed to attack, you won't be able to pick it up, plus if the medivac is in the field it will deactivate. so you will lose them. Honestly I'd rather drop 400minerals worth of marines or hellions instead of those high cost units. - It's cheaper - You can pick them up and leave. - You are not relying on your opponent being retarded - If your opponent is retarded you will do just as much damage, if he isn't you will do more. - If you lose them it's no big deal, easier to replace (produced from reactors) Shredder drops feel like a bad, more expensive version of baneling drops. | ||
Dazer
239 Posts
Hopefully they can balance it well. | ||
Gijian
United States273 Posts
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Callynn
Netherlands917 Posts
I do think however, that Shredders should not be able to hit air in their field. | ||
Teim
Australia373 Posts
On October 25 2011 16:56 Angelbelow wrote: If you think about it, you should be able to realize why its different. Incase you have trouble, its because tanks in a seiged position will be surrounded by drones very quickly. Which will render the tank useless. A tank unsieged can easily be cleaned up by zerglings which wouldnt work on the shredder. So as long as we ignore the facts that: - The Shredder has an incredibly long setup time - You should spot the drop well before it is actually deployed Then yes, your army will melt away. | ||
Emporio
United States3069 Posts
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
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