On December 06 2012 19:11 USvBleakill wrote: The TNG movies were just 2 hour episodes with more money for special effects. And first contact was by far the best of them.
While I agree that First contact is the best TNG movie, it would be an atrocious TNG episode. Picard acts like Bruce Willis in a Starfleet uniform. His whole character is crippled, why does he suddenly hate the Borg and wants revenge when he had understanding for the Borg in the series even after he was assimilated?
And First contact (like every TNG movie) is full of plot holes. Has anyone even thought about the consequences of giving the Borg the ability to travel time at their whim? That would have terrible consequences for pretty much the whole galaxy.
And First contact (like every TNG movie) is full of plot holes. Has anyone even thought about the consequences of giving the Borg the ability to travel time at their whim? That would have terrible consequences for pretty much the whole galaxy.
"Borg" is just a synonym for plot hole. Have anybody ever asked why the hell they always send just 1 ship? I mean they have thousands or? Why didn´t they send just 10 to fight the mightiest fleet of the quadrant which has problems handling just 1 .
On December 06 2012 18:39 eviltomahawk wrote: That one blond girl in the trailer looks suspiciously like Elizabeth Dehner. Hmmmm...
Yes, exactly.
The voiceovers and the trailers could be intentionally cut to be misdirection.
The threat is not Khan. It's Gary Mitchell. (which is about 1000x more badass and cool on so many levels)
However, Gary Mitchell was killed off a couple of the spinoffcomics that adapted the episode Where No Man Has Gone Before into the alternative universe. Interestingly enough, it is worth noting that Elizabeth Dehner was not mentioned in these comics, and that Gary Mitchell was buried in space, so there is a chance that he could come back to life due to those powers.
THe TNG movies were all so regrettable. Imagine if they just made like 6 more TNG seasons instead.
Generations makes me feel sick just thinking about it. Forget the boring and plot holed filled plot that MAYBE would have made for a decent 2 parter but they also blew up the best Enterprise ever and fucking killed Kirk! It's an insult i say!
Luckily, these new movies are refreshing as a Star Trek fan. Ever since the end of TNG and some parts of DS9 I've found anything star trek related almost unwatchable so It was a pleasant surprise when the reboot was pretty damned good.
On December 06 2012 18:43 archonOOid wrote: What happened to star trek? It was a dear friend of mine but got lost in enterprise series and the recent movies turned star trek into ordinary action.
You know it's interesting that you say that because honestly the last Star Trek movie was far more fun and to my liking than the TNG ones. The big reason for this though is the damn characters.
The last Trek movie had at least a decent amount of character interaction and really that's pretty much how I would imagine Kirk would act like during his younger years. Hell he acted like this when he was older but it seemed even less tamed. Having a couple movies surround how he grows into a better leader could actually be a damn good series of movies.
That being said the TNG movies are trash...because the elements that made TNG so great make terrible movies. Picard is a much more philosophical Captain type that really tries to avoid confrontation. If you watch the series you'll notice that Picard works much more around solving problems without blowing shit up. His maneuvering and how he goes about pulling that off along with all the technobabble is what makes it interesting.
Thing is...that makes a fucking horrible movie in this day and age. The audience just is not there. When they DID make the TNG movies they completely destroyed every character, Picard in particular went from not sending a virus to kill the entire borg species to being this vengeful freak of anger during first contact, and so not only do people that want action hate it because it's bad action but trek fans hate it because it's not TNG. Then we have stupid shit like the emotion datachip shit that made no sense and didn't really add anything to the movie, Troy piloting the ship and SHOCK AND AWE crashing it horribly, terrible plot, and in general just not what you watch TNG for. They tried to make it more 'mainstream' and failed miserably.
Kirk was a bit more action oriented and can actually do a bit of revival here if the new characters step in and do their jobs. Given that it's back in time and different events can happen having a personality shift makes SENSE so the actors can make the characters their own.
At least that's what I'm hoping. I will give it a shot. Anyway if it IS a Wrath of Khan reboot they already have the character growth in there for it. The whole Kirk coming to terms with the No Win Scenario and all the jazz...yea...
The TNG movies were just 2 hour episodes with more money for special effects. And first contact was by far the best of them.
Comparing TNG movies and the JJ Abrams movies is just not fair because in the TNG movies they had to work with the same characters as in the TV show. If you look at the old Kirk episodes and the new movies the only characters which not changed 180 degrees were Kirk and McCoy. Uhura, Sulu and especially Spok and Scotty (Simon Peg !!!) were totally different from the series.
Um that's exactly my point for the most part.
The TNG movies WEREN'T 2 hour episodes. If they had been at least the hardcore trek fans would have been happy with it. All the two part TNG episodes had a lot of character growth, drama, tension, and altogether a good moral type ending that actually wanted to convey something. First Contact was just an action movie...and a bad one...because the cast of TNG is not made for action movies. It's not their fault that the movie was so bad really as they were playing against the core of their characters. It was bound to fail before it was even started if an action movie was their goal.
As for the old Kirk Episodes and the new movies...bro that's my point again. First off you have to remember that these characters are YOUNGER than the ones you know. They don't have the experiences of the old cast and as such will act differently. Furthermore the new characters have a completely different event occur, that of the first motion picture, and as such their characters will develop differently. I think this is a good thing as it allows for surprises. I really like trek and the new movie didn't offend me at all..I actually found it rather refreshing.
AS for other characters acting odd...Spock in particular...all people remember is that wise old Spock from TOS but completely forget that Vulcans are actually super emotional at their core and it's why the got to such lengths to control it. I don't think it's much of a stretch for a young Spock to lose his cool on occasion. Uhura was pretty much a background character in TOS...she actually has potential for use here. Sulu is much the same in that regard.
The one I do agree with you on is Scotty. HOWEVER, I do feel that Simon Peg could MAKE IT WORK...with some believable effort.
And First contact (like every TNG movie) is full of plot holes. Has anyone even thought about the consequences of giving the Borg the ability to travel time at their whim? That would have terrible consequences for pretty much the whole galaxy.
"Borg" is just a synonym for plot hole. Have anybody ever asked why the hell they always send just 1 ship? I mean they have thousands or? Why didn´t they send just 10 to fight the mightiest fleet of the quadrant which has problems handling just 1 .
You answered your question. One is usually enough.
And First contact (like every TNG movie) is full of plot holes. Has anyone even thought about the consequences of giving the Borg the ability to travel time at their whim? That would have terrible consequences for pretty much the whole galaxy.
"Borg" is just a synonym for plot hole. Have anybody ever asked why the hell they always send just 1 ship? I mean they have thousands or? Why didn´t they send just 10 to fight the mightiest fleet of the quadrant which has problems handling just 1 .
They like efficiency. They didn't believe they needed more than 1 for the first battle at Wolf 359 because they had Locutus. They were actually right. Had some amazing shit not occurred there the borg would have taken earth over with a single damn cube.
They have a big empire. they reside primarily in the Delta Quadrant, and after Wolf 359 you start getting Voyager stuff beginning and stuff like Species 8472 fucking their shit up. They are a busy people.
On December 06 2012 17:56 chocopaw wrote: Can somebody explain to me why the first movie was so well received? I watched it, and while I didn't find it unbearable like some of my hardcore trekkie friends did, I didn't find it good by any means.
It was probably well received because it was quite a good movie - not necessarily much like previous Star Trek (which is hardly a flaw in my opinion).
Pretty much the only people who didn't like it were hardcore Trekkies (a small minority) and of course people who hate Sci-Fi stuff on principle (and I'm sure those wouldn't have seen it).
I'm looking forward to this movie, this looks to be a promising franchise.
I hate it. Probably because I watched 1-7 when i was very young and this action angle they've been pursuing since 8 is just a downwards trend to me. First Contact was still ok but this new movie is nothing like Star Trek in my opinion.
The last Trek movie had at least a decent amount of character interaction and really that's pretty much how I would imagine Kirk would act like during his younger years. Hell he acted like this when he was older but it seemed even less tamed. Having a couple movies surround how he grows into a better leader could actually be a damn good series of movies.
Kirk was originally a Marty Stu, a kind of fantastical avatar for human wish-fulfillment, which got its absurd elements from William Shatner's overblown attempts to play the trope straight. Kirk not only possessed insane Bat deduction, or solve every problem, he knew how to outwit every superhuman alien intelligence, beat Spock at chess, succeed with every woman, beat every man in a fight, and was a general prodigy of human potential.
You cannot have an ensemble-type film while maintaining the traditional, non-introspective Kirk, because the magic of Kirk was that he was a one-man crew. Kirk was 90% of the solution 90% of the time. Put Spock and McCoy in there, and you are up to 100%. The minor characters are irrelevant.
That, even more than his captaincy, was the basis of his authority in Star Trek. What you don't have in Classic Trek were heated arguments between the Captain and his First Officer. You do not have outright expressions of disgust on part of Spock at the decisions of his commanding officer. (Spock's criticisms were far more subtle, and never tended to subvert the Captain's authority.)
Showing Kirk to mature from Kirk of Star Trek (2011) to Star Trek TOS requires him not only have undergone a transformation seen in Prince Hal from the pages of Henry IV to Henry V; it requires, ironically, the diminution of every other character in the crew. It requires you to show why all other crew members went from being able to relate to the Captain on terms of approximate equality in Star Trek (2011) to being obedient lemmings in the shadow of his supreme savoir faire in Star Trek TOS.
It requires them, over the process of many grueling years, to finally come to the realisation that Captain Kirk really is that awesome and infallible. The wisest thing that could ever come out of their mouths while on duty would be the simple motto: "Aye aye, Captain."
Pretty generic to jump on the revenge / no safety / human villain train. Here's the recipe how to make a film today. Let's take a series of films and extend it, like a fifth Bourne film. Let's call it Rising Sky Darkness, because we don't want to miss any trend. A former competitor of Jason Bourne is crippled and seeks revenge on Bourne and the USA and attacks the CIA headquarters. He tries to fake it as an assault of Bourne. He also takes steroids and thus he defeats him in the intro. His new girlfriend will also die. Action scenes involve Bourne crashing into water with an airplane and he'll survive it. He will be a prisoner by cannibals who work for the villain because he was raised there on a remote island, where Bourne is thrown into a hole in the ground but manages to escape and hijacks a Comanche helicopter. He destroys the gang of the villain with it, but crashes. In the end-fight, Bourne can defeat the villain by blinding him with infra-red and then throwing a knife at him, because he had artificial eyes all the time.
And First contact (like every TNG movie) is full of plot holes. Has anyone even thought about the consequences of giving the Borg the ability to travel time at their whim? That would have terrible consequences for pretty much the whole galaxy.
"Borg" is just a synonym for plot hole. Have anybody ever asked why the hell they always send just 1 ship? I mean they have thousands or? Why didn´t they send just 10 to fight the mightiest fleet of the quadrant which has problems handling just 1 .
I'm really excited for this! I actually did like the first film. Just like every film I had some things I didn't like, but the good outweighed the bad. I'll definitely see this when it comes out.
I have to admit, when watching TOS I chuckle when Sulu finally gets a line, delivered in his monochrome, vacant way. George Takei fans will posit that Shatner was an egomaniac who denied Sulu his rightful place in the sun. Go back and watch his performances, and tell me honestly that Sulu deserved any status as a real character.
Ah...the social and dramatic ineptitude of token Asians on Trek will always be my guilty pleasure.
I think most of the audience who are upset that this reboot regarding it's departure from Star Trek cannon fail to realize that it's a parallel universe and not the original universe that Old-Spock, the Klingon's, and the original Star Trek come from. Spock alludes to this when he mentions that in "his universe" Kirk's father lives to old age and gets to see his son graduate while in the non-cannon universe Kirk's father dies ramming the Kelvin into the Romulan mining ship. Since this is a parallel universe it would make sense that the characters would be different and the lore would be different. I loved the reboot, I love what J.J. Abrahms did with the characters, and I loved the pacing of the movies. I can't wait to see the new one.
So is this a continuation of different ST timeline? TBH im not a fan of recycling same storylines again and again.There is a shitload of new story possibilities for ST yet they keep coming back to old ones.Most of us werent even born when TOS was airing,and when we watched it we didnt like it cuz it was not made for our time.Personally i liked DS9 and Voyager (latter seasons) much more than TOS or TNG (still Piquard is the best captain ever). I was hopint they will continue with Romulan empire joining Federation + transwarp story line into exploring new galaxies,but i guess people like the same old shit...