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On December 15 2012 13:24 Ropid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 12:36 Kilby wrote:On December 15 2012 12:17 Sub40APM wrote:On December 15 2012 12:09 Kilby wrote:On December 06 2012 17:56 chocopaw wrote: Can somebody explain to me why the first movie was so well received? I watched it, and while I didn't find it unbearable like some of my hardcore trekkie friends did, I didn't find it good by any means. It had a lot of good looking people, glitter and action. But as a Trek movie, it sucked balls. Just like the next one probably will. with respect, most Star Trek movies werent that good. Generations? That other one with the weird skin stretching aliens? Time travel to the development of warp?! Yeah, certainly many of the films like Generations and Insurrection were just crap, but to understand Star Trek you should see the tv series, not the movies. Regardless in my opinion the best Star Trek movie of all time is "time travel to the development of warp" aka First Contact. But I guess that is largely because I was not really around with the original series and its movies came out so those might have some value still. But considering that I have seen everything after the original series, the new 2009 Star Trek is just very disappointing. And I do understand that it gained a big audience and many people though it was cool but I still don't think it was Star Trek. As said, I didn't watch TOS so maybe the new movie it was similiar or maybe not, I don't know but certainly it was not evern close to the idea or the atmosphere or the feel of the best Star Trek Next Generations. Like I've said before, Star Trek is not, and should not be a comedy. TOS really is pretty different compared to TNG. You already know TNG and DS9 and Voyager all have a different feel, and TOS is decades older than all of those. Perhaps you've seen the old Star Trek movies and the newer ones with the TNG cast, and can compare those regarding how TOS world vs. TNG world feels, though the movies are not really how the series was. I think the new movie wasn't that far off and pretty enjoyable. They are using mostly TOS ideas, and I have a hunch that works better for movies. I thought all TNG based Star Trek movies were pretty bad, and I'm happy they stopped doing those. Instead of TNG movies, I would like a new series set in the TNG/DS9 time.
And you might indeed get that. =)
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I'm actually just happy that there is another enjoyable space-flick soon. I guess we all can agree that it will be a good "popcorn-movie", even if it's a bad "trek-movie".
In fact, i really don't get all the anger towards the last movie and this one - it's either that, or nothing. If trekkies would be truly honest, they would actually agree that almost all movies were utter crap from a "trek-perspective". And theres actually nothing you can do about it, the reason is simply that you need to put a plot in ~90-120 minutes, instead of 22 episodes.
The plot on the last one was, well, meh (i actually questioned the heavily armed and well trained mining vessel-deathstar, or red matter myself) - but as a movie, it was great. It has (still) one of the best CGI ever made, there were some, uhm.. Moments, where your heart beats faster (dont know the right word), for example the view on the enterprise from the shuttles with that brilliant music, when it warped in like cavalry and shot down the torpedoes, etc.. It was good entertainment. And i hope the next one will be the same: entertainment. Although i'm kinda scared by the teaser, i love the enterprise, and i want it to be the star of the show. Not just a sidekick. And in the teaser, well.. For me the teaser shows too much ground-action. Which is nice, but i just hope the space-stuff does not become near to nonexistent.
Will watch it, and will enjoy it alot, if it's comparable to the last movie. Just because it's a good movie in general.
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But I don't want to get quick time...
It's okay, I'll just wait until I go to the cinema and they show me the trailer for the film I'm about to see and possibly some the-making-of scenes as well, like they did with MIB3 when I went to see it.
On another note: Thanks! Didn't know there was a new one coming out
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Even judging it as a generic SF movie that's supposed to be a blockbuster, it was bad. Compare it to Prometheus. That Star Trek is just one big plot hole filled with awkward dialogue and extremely silly scenes.
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So excited for this movie!
And Star Trek fans judge the crap out of this movie. It is a good movie, just accept it for what it is. You can't remake the original movies/series. You have to innovate, even if it is more like a traditional action flick or whatnot.
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On January 13 2013 09:58 m4inbrain wrote: I'm actually just happy that there is another enjoyable space-flick soon. I guess we all can agree that it will be a good "popcorn-movie", even if it's a bad "trek-movie".
You, and many other people, seem to be under the impression that the hatred for this movie stems only from the "bad trek-movie" perspective.
I'd give my opinion, but it'd be easier to just quote SFDebris, as he sums it up perfectly in his intro to his review:
SFDebris said: That's why I feel that it's not bad, but it's not great either. In many ways it's crap, but... it's well done crap. It's crap that has sought to make something of itself, to move to the big city and get a job and be somebody. It embraces itself and marches forward with such conviction that you can even be fooled into forgetting that it's crap.
So as I stand in the middle, seeing both of these points of view on here, I think maybe I should speak about why I think both sides have a point. [...] Let me just speak to both sides for a moment.
People who hate this film:
The affection for this film is not because those who disagree are low-brow sheep who are distracted by the flashing lights. The film has plenty of action, energy, palpable enthusiasm, and an intense push forward. It may not be as cerebral as Khan, but it's still a fun film even discounting all of the special effects.
People who love this film:
The hatred for this film is not because dorks won't settle for an old-school snore fest. Even ignoring any previous knowledge of Star Trek, the plot is stupid, some of the characterization is shoddy, many actions and events are absurd, and any science mentioned is laughably wrong. And it all leads up to a face-palming conclusion. It is a film where the spectacle is outweighing the substance.
For me, my annoyance with the film has little to do with not being "Star Trek" enough. It has to do with the substance, or lack thereof. The film had weak writing overall; there were some good points (Spock's character arc was the highlight of the film), but these were undermined by a weak villain, silly plot, and general ineptness at making me give a damn about the protagonist. When the only problem I had with Spock throwing the protagonist off the ship half-way through was the fact that he gave him a life pod, rather than letting him suck hard vacuum for a while, you have failed as storytellers.
Give me substance like The Dark Knight trilogy, most of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, something more than just nice action scenes and fast pacing. Something to hold on to, something real and substantive.
Yes, it's a decent action flick. But you know what? Hollywood can do better than just a decent action flick. And we shouldn't settle for brainless action when we have superhero movies getting it done better, and with more character development and thematic progression than Star Trek.
I wrote an extremely long text review of Star Trek 2009. At the end, I stated what I wanted to see from the next film, and I predicted what I expected to see from the next film. And you know what? My prediction seems to be right on the money. It looks like it's going to be a Wrath of Khan remake.
Because that's a wonderful idea.
The only two predictions I made that might not be true would be them not doing Spock's death. Though I'm guessing that, since they put it in the trailer, it's not going to be Spock's death. It's going to be whomever Spock's talking to. The other prediction I made was that Kirk wouldn't get his comeuppance for... well, all of ST 2009.
One of the biggest problems with ST2009, for me, was Kirk's irrational belief, founded in his own arrogance, that he knows every Goddamn thing there is and can accomplish anything no matter what. That he can go after a ship that destroyed an entire fleet without even bothering to come up with a plan first (note: they come up with the plan en-route, and it's a plan that relied on Scotty's magic technobabble, so it wouldn't have worked if Spock hadn't thrown him off the ship when he suggested doing this before). And the film backed him up on his arrogance that at every turn. Bones calling him their "prized stallion" based on very few actual in-story accomplishments. And so forth.
And then this self-important numbnut gets promoted to Captain. No, don't bother continuing his education at Starfleet Academy. Don't bother forcing him to pay his dues as an Ensign, Lieutenant, or even a ship's First Officer. No, obviously a cadet saving the planet in a crisis situation means that he knows everything that someone needs to in order to be Captain of a flagship.
In any reasonable world, the Enterprise in this universe would be the worst run ship in the fleet under Kirk, with discipline problems, poor performance, and the like. And if it's not, it will only be because Spock and the rest of the command staff are covering for Kirk's woeful ignorance.
So at least this film seems to realize that they went way overboard with the Kirk fellatio and decided to actually humble him to some extent. So there may yet be hope.
Granted, it's still a Khan remake. Seriously, who the hell thought that was a good idea?
So no, I'm not holding out any real hope for this movie. I'll see it, but I won't pay money specifically to do so. I'll pick it up on Netflix when the time comes, just like its predecessor.
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The IGN interviews are disappointing.
+ Show Spoiler +They state that Dr. Carol Marcus was a scientist in the branch of weaponry expertise. Cumberbatch plays John Harrison and is some kind of warrior. They also state he'd have his reasons for blowing things up but that's all: military and weapons. That's Star Trek in 2013.
I'd somehow like to be in charge of a story and write it for them. But probably not for the ST universe or any other broken thing.
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Thought I would post in this thread since there is a new trailer out, and the film is about a month away. For anyone interested in seeing the new trailer, here it is.
+ Show Spoiler +
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Hah. Can't wait for it to come out, but did anyone else think of even bigger Jaws when you see Cumberbatch's ship? 'He needs a ship. Let's give him the Enterprise, but even bigger. Boom.'
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Yeah it looks like a supercharged and evil version of a Starfleet ship. I think the film looks pretty good, but I'm no old school trekkie.
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Germany25639 Posts
I hate this film, I hate what Star Trek has become lol. Yes, I know I am in the minority with this opinion
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The best thing about a new star trek movie is a new Plinkett review!
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I understand where you're coming from. I've seen a few of the 1960's star trek tv series and the plot seemed to be a lot more dependent on a philosophical approach. J.J. Abrams seems more interested in making a Star Trek blockbuster than he is in emulating that style.
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I cant wait for this, first one is a well done film, in all fairness.
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This could be a good movie, but its not star trek. Release it in a different universe or whatever thats not star trek and it would be quite enjoyable, with star trek attached, its just a bad joke and a big **** you to all previous star trek.
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On April 17 2013 03:06 KadaverBB wrote:I hate this film, I hate what Star Trek has become lol. Yes, I know I am in the minority with this opinion You're not! I don't like the relaunch, it has nothing Trek-like about it at all. I wish they'd launch a proper series again, one that is not some shitty prequel/alternate universe stuff, but good TNG-like.
Oh well, I'll probably watch the movie anyways, it's SciFi after all, I'll just pretend it doesn't wear the name Star Trek.
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On April 17 2013 03:38 Oleo wrote: This could be a good movie, but its not star trek. Release it in a different universe or whatever thats not star trek and it would be quite enjoyable, with star trek attached, its just a bad joke and a big **** you to all previous star trek.
Why react in this way? If as you say it would be enjoyable if it was made outside of the Star Trek universe, then why not just accept it for what it is? Someone may come along in a few years and remake a more cerebral version similar to the old Star Trek. For right now, what we're getting is pretty entertaining and pretty fun to look at, so IMO drop all the hate of change and embrace it.
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in the run-up to the new film i feel it is necessary to link this article
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On April 17 2013 03:39 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 03:06 KadaverBB wrote:I hate this film, I hate what Star Trek has become lol. Yes, I know I am in the minority with this opinion You're not! I don't like the relaunch, it has nothing Trek-like about it at all. I wish they'd launch a proper series again, one that is not some shitty prequel/alternate universe stuff, but good TNG-like. Oh well, I'll probably watch the movie anyways, it's SciFi after all, I'll just pretend it doesn't wear the name Star Trek.
I think I don't have as much of a problem with it because it is set well before any of the series. Basically all of the throwback episodes ranging from Spock in 'Reunification' to Mr. Sulu in Tuvok's 'memory' talk about how space was like the wild west back then. Janeway even goes so far as to say every significant character from these movies would have been booted out of the academy if they had attended in her time.
I am a huge Trek fan and I agree that the universe has more to offer than what can be seen in these new movies but I do not agree that the events in these movies are so implausible within the Star Trek universe that they detract from it.
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On April 17 2013 03:06 KadaverBB wrote:I hate this film, I hate what Star Trek has become lol. Yes, I know I am in the minority with this opinion
I wouldn't say you are the minority in this opinion amongst those who like star trek. Personally, ST2009 was the second piece of trek I watched. (I was only 11 then and my parents aren't super trekkies) I had watched the city on the edge of forever the night before. Of course I loved it, but 4 years later, it's clear to me that this is garbage and is not real star trek. You will like it alot more if you think of it like that. If you want real ST go watch TNG/DS9/VOY.
Also, the whole alternate timeline thing as a main plot kinda destroys it's legitimacy automatically.....
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