On March 10 2012 16:24 jeremycafe wrote: You are still stating that countries with the ability to protect civilians don't have any business helping. Just because the government is corrupt doesn't justify the lack of interest from the rest of the world. Turning a blind eye to human life and letting them "sort themselves out" will only lead to more innocent killings.
Anyways, I should go to bed before I become more of a complete idiot for committing 2am typos. How dare I...
Well, putting our nose in the other people's business like we always do tend to bite us in the ass a few years later.
When Kony committed crimes against humanity, his arrest and trial became everyone's business.
Then again there's even people saying he's dead, not official sources I guess. But what if he IS dead?
Nothing changes. His underlings take over and continue the fight.
Yeah but all the hype is to arrest him, so if he's dead what are they going to do? Wipe out his child army?
Try to rehabilitate as many as possible of the kids, bring as many of the adults as possible to trial. Precedent set by Rwanda is that people should not be considered culpable for crimes committed as child soldiers. I don't think the LRA would survive terribly long without Kony at its head due to the cult-like religious elements he uses to heighten his control.
Oh, and celebrate that there is one fewer monster alive.
I would support that if there was a over 90% chance of managing to take out that single motherfucker while not hurting the child soldiers and everyone. And i fully disagree with any "going for him" that would mean just killing all LRA's child army to get him (which seems the most plausible at the moment).
Any 'white' country troops deployed to Uganda will give such pretty headlines when the soldiers start shooting child soldiers first and ask questions later, you dont hesitate when the other side wants to kill you and have guns or you are the dead ones; after the first incident when a soldier didnt fire upon an enemy combatant because they were a child, the rest will learn and 'NATO Troops slaughtering child soldiers!' will be on the news. This will be the price to intervene in a wildfire like Africa and I dont think any politican is willing to take that heat.
Just remember Iraq war , over 1 million dead Iraqis Also the place is now a nuclear waste dump , since they removed the ban on depleted uranium shells back in 1991.Now rates of child defects and cancer are rising fast , go look it up. Does anyone really want to see the US use uranium shells in Uganda? because if they used them in Iraq it's not out of the question.
On March 09 2012 19:09 zalz wrote: Is there nothing the conspiracy freaks can't shit all over?
I knew about Kony before the campaign (hipster glasses) and despite the perhaps lacking non-profit group, I was glad that there was some press on the matter.
Deep down I knew there would be people like Pika Chu in this topic. He has been vomiting his worldview over several topics for a while now. His vile worldview consists of little more than justifying anything as long as the perpetrators are not white Americans.
I knew they would come and piss over the graves of children, yet it seems to be no less offensive now that they are doing it.
Don't trust them when they ask for proof. Don't humor them. They don't give a shit. You can give them hundreds of pages of well documented evidence and they will not accept it, because it doesn't fit in their perception of how the world works.
Kony and his ilk are an enemy to each person with a conscience. That is why he is a friend to Pika Chu and other conspiracy nuts like him.
Thank you. It's hard sometimes to ignore these people and remember that no amount of proof will satisfy them, especially when this is a subject that does matter to me.
I'm sorry.
Google terms
"Yoweri Museveni and Congo genocide" "Museveni and Kony" "Museveni and and Rwanda genocide" "Museveni and Acholi genocide" "U.S. support for dictator Museveni"
Need a new Bin Laden... I'd recommend reading and considering those facts, but it might not conform to the vengeful librarian worldview. Joeseph Kony is bad man, but this is about AFRICOM, not human rights. If it was about human rights we would be after Museveni for the 3 mill(half a holocaust?, and nothing?) he most likely murdered, nor would we be.. selling guns to Bahrain, or shipping guns to Mexico, or or or and the parade goes on....Don't tell me we wouldn't. The last serveral administrations have done whatever they damn please, to whom they please.
If you really care, you have to read both sides and then inbetween. I don't mind you tossing around 'conspiracy' half as much as you would mind me calling you a spoon-fed tool. You cannot preach human rights and defend who the US has supported in Uganada. End of G D story... Well you could, and you willl....won't you?
Going after Kony and ignoring the rest is hands down hypocracy. Ignoring our continued hand/prescence in all of this mess is something your rigid thinking refuses to come to grips with . We are only capable of righteous fury!!!!
Now , what was that about about conscious? Seriously?
On March 08 2012 22:51 archonOOid wrote: why are these guys labeled rebels instead of terrorists? If the west recognized them as terrorists they would quickly disappear with all the black ops, proxy wars and what not. Just because they are not a threat to EU/NA they can do whatever they want and also because it's happening in Africa ( Land of the Western atrocities).
because there is no oil in africa
Nigeria, Angola, Libya, Egypt, Sudan (South), Gabon, DRC, not to mention vast mineral wealth that puts much of the world to shame...
And the US has a highly vested interest in Nigerian oil, hence the strong partnership between the two...there is a definite US interest in Africa. We are "already there"
I'm pretty sure the point was "there's no oil where Kony/these guys are, but there is where Saddam/Qaddafi/etc are" so that's why we invaded those countries and not the other ones, despite both having commited horrible acts against humanity.. I agree he could have worded it better though.
Folks forget the US govt. has an overwhelmingly shitty reputation worldwide. Going after Kony is a boost for them, and any good PR they can get is good for them.
Yes, let's go into Uganda, a country with a large amount of untapped crude oil, to fight against a terrorist who is no longer in that country.
Sigh I feel this got to much publicity. Although I think Kony deserves to be punish for his crime IC is just a fraud organisation. They abused the fact that emotions are stronger then logic so they can get more money in there pockets make me sick. I just hope the Kony 2012 fad ends soon.
On March 09 2012 19:09 zalz wrote: Is there nothing the conspiracy freaks can't shit all over?
I knew about Kony before the campaign (hipster glasses) and despite the perhaps lacking non-profit group, I was glad that there was some press on the matter.
Deep down I knew there would be people like Pika Chu in this topic. He has been vomiting his worldview over several topics for a while now. His vile worldview consists of little more than justifying anything as long as the perpetrators are not white Americans.
I knew they would come and piss over the graves of children, yet it seems to be no less offensive now that they are doing it.
Don't trust them when they ask for proof. Don't humor them. They don't give a shit. You can give them hundreds of pages of well documented evidence and they will not accept it, because it doesn't fit in their perception of how the world works.
Kony and his ilk are an enemy to each person with a conscience. That is why he is a friend to Pika Chu and other conspiracy nuts like him.
Thank you. It's hard sometimes to ignore these people and remember that no amount of proof will satisfy them, especially when this is a subject that does matter to me.
I'm sorry.
Google terms
"Yoweri Museveni and Congo genocide" "Museveni and Kony" "Museveni and and Rwanda genocide" "Museveni and Acholi genocide" "U.S. support for dictator Museveni"
Need a new Bin Laden... I'd recommend reading and considering those facts, but it might not conform to the vengeful librarian worldview. Joeseph Kony is bad man, but this is about AFRICOM, not human rights. If it was about human rights we would be after Museveni for the 3 mill(half a holocaust?, and nothing?) he most likely murdered, nor would we be.. selling guns to Bahrain, or shipping guns to Mexico, or or or and the parade goes on....Don't tell me we wouldn't. The last serveral administrations have done whatever they damn please, to whom they please.
If you really care, you have to read both sides and then inbetween. I don't mind you tossing around 'conspiracy' half as much as you would mind me calling you a spoon-fed tool. You cannot preach human rights and defend who the US has supported in Uganada. End of G D story... Well you could, and you willl....won't you?
Going after Kony and ignoring the rest is hands down hypocracy. Ignoring our continued hand/prescence in all of this mess is something your rigid thinking refuses to come to grips with . We are only capable of righteous fury!!!!
Now , what was that about about conscious? Seriously?
I do not care why people are now trying to bring Kony to justice, only that they are. Provided the means are calculated to cause a minimum of harm, this end is good irregardless of motive.
I would really like it if all the other bastards were also brought to justice, but even one is a milestone I would be very happy to reach.
I'm more of an idealist than a vengeful librarian, and I will always support moves to bring those who commit crimes against humanity to trial. That you assume I have never paid attention to Uganda before this says more about you than me - I have participated in awareness raising on issues relating to the actions of the Ugandan governement and the LRA previously. Also, I'm from Ireland not the US. It is not my hand you speak of.
I'm now withdrawing from this thread, if you wish to continue to accuse me of being a mindless tool of the war machine or wantonly ignoring the plight of those who die off camera please do so in PMs.
On March 09 2012 19:09 zalz wrote: Is there nothing the conspiracy freaks can't shit all over?
I knew about Kony before the campaign (hipster glasses) and despite the perhaps lacking non-profit group, I was glad that there was some press on the matter.
Deep down I knew there would be people like Pika Chu in this topic. He has been vomiting his worldview over several topics for a while now. His vile worldview consists of little more than justifying anything as long as the perpetrators are not white Americans.
I knew they would come and piss over the graves of children, yet it seems to be no less offensive now that they are doing it.
Don't trust them when they ask for proof. Don't humor them. They don't give a shit. You can give them hundreds of pages of well documented evidence and they will not accept it, because it doesn't fit in their perception of how the world works.
Kony and his ilk are an enemy to each person with a conscience. That is why he is a friend to Pika Chu and other conspiracy nuts like him.
Thank you. It's hard sometimes to ignore these people and remember that no amount of proof will satisfy them, especially when this is a subject that does matter to me.
I'm sorry.
Google terms
"Yoweri Museveni and Congo genocide" "Museveni and Kony" "Museveni and and Rwanda genocide" "Museveni and Acholi genocide" "U.S. support for dictator Museveni"
Need a new Bin Laden... I'd recommend reading and considering those facts, but it might not conform to the vengeful librarian worldview. Joeseph Kony is bad man, but this is about AFRICOM, not human rights. If it was about human rights we would be after Museveni for the 3 mill(half a holocaust?, and nothing?) he most likely murdered, nor would we be.. selling guns to Bahrain, or shipping guns to Mexico, or or or and the parade goes on....Don't tell me we wouldn't. The last serveral administrations have done whatever they damn please, to whom they please.
If you really care, you have to read both sides and then inbetween. I don't mind you tossing around 'conspiracy' half as much as you would mind me calling you a spoon-fed tool. You cannot preach human rights and defend who the US has supported in Uganada. End of G D story... Well you could, and you willl....won't you?
Going after Kony and ignoring the rest is hands down hypocracy. Ignoring our continued hand/prescence in all of this mess is something your rigid thinking refuses to come to grips with . We are only capable of righteous fury!!!!
Now , what was that about about conscious? Seriously?
I do not care why people are now trying to bring Kony to justice, only that they are. Provided the means are calculated to cause a minimum of harm, this end is good irregardless of motive.
I would really like it if all the other bastards were also brought to justice, but even one is a milestone I would be very happy to reach.
I'm more of an idealist than a vengeful librarian, and I will always support moves to bring those who commit crimes against humanity to trial. That you assume I have never paid attention to Uganda before this says more about you than me - I have participated in awareness raising on issues relating to the actions of the Ugandan governement and the LRA previously. Also, I'm from Ireland not the US. It is not my hand you speak of.
I'm now withdrawing from this thread, if you wish to continue to accuse me of being a mindless tool of the war machine or wantonly ignoring the plight of those who die off camera please do so in PMs.
I'd say the reasoning for doing something is just as important as the action itself. Besides, what if the USA does more harm than good in this whole catch kony thing? Would you still support it?
I don't have anything against these campaigns, except they appeal on people emotions with simplistic holywoodesque tools without informing them really well about the subject people are supposed to care about.
The Guardian's article has a couple of gems, such as this interview Arthur Larok, Actions Aids' director in Uganda:
From what I know about Invisible Children, it's an international NGO, and it documents the lives of children living in conflict for international campaigning to draw attention to the lives of children in the north.
Six or 10 years ago, this would have been a really effective campaign strategy to get international campaigning. But today, years after Kony has moved away from Uganda, I think campaigning that appeals to these emotions … I'm not sure that's effective for now. The circumstances in the north have changed.
Many NGOs and the government, especially local government in the north, are about rebuilding and securing lives for children, in education, sanitation, health and livelihoods. International campaigning that doesn't support this agenda is not so useful at this point. We have moved beyond that.
There are conflicts in the north – several small conflicts over natural resources. Land is the major issue: after many years of displacement, there is quite a bit of land-related conflict.
But many organisations and governments are focusing on this. We need to secure social stability, health and education. These are the priorities. This is what we're trying to focus on. Poverty is high compared to the rest of the country. That's the practical issue that needs to be addressed.
I don't think this is the best way. It might be an appeal that makes sense in America. But there are more fundamental challenges. Kony has been around for 25 years and over. I don't think in the north at the moment that is really what is most important. It might be best on the internet and the like but, at the end of the day, there are more pressing things to deal with. If the Americans had wanted to arrest him, they would have done that a long time ago.
They [Invisible Children] are not a member of our forum. Many international organisations prefer to work and have direct contact with their quarters. They don't work so much within the structures we have in the country. There is nothing dramatic about them. They are like any other organisation trying to make a difference. At the moment I think the work of Invisible Children is about appealing to people's emotions. I think that time has passed. Their reputation in the country is something that can be debatable. There is a strong argument generally about NGOs and their work in the north.
It doesn't sound like a fair representation of Uganda. We have challenges within the country, but certainly the perception of a country at war is not accurate at all. There are political, economic and social challenges, but they are complex. Being dramatic about a country at war is not accurate.
If the international media want to be helpful especially for the conflict situation, they should exert more time and effort understanding practically what the needs are. It is fast-changing.
The video would have been appealing in the last decade. Now we just need support for the recovery rather than all this international attention on this one point. Getting the facts right is most important for the international media. That would help the situation as it is.
People are ready to jump on something like that because it makes feel good about themselves and it's very emotional, but if you start to explain them the real, complex, dry and challenging problems of these countries (which usually involve our own interests, the exploitation of natural resource by our corporations, endemic corruption of these countries elite, etc...), they get bored and don't listen.
Pity we are not really mature enough for caring about the real world and real political situations, and that it has to be mixed with mass entertainment medias with the brainless attitude that goes with it so that people start to "care".
Anyway. I hope this bastards get arrested or killed. But this video thing leaves me cold.
On March 07 2012 03:48 Kuja wrote: You know whats funny and what most people wont realize? This was filmed in 2003 when this was actually a problem. The problem with Uganda right now is not Kony its the corrupt government. the LRA was beaten back into congo in 2004; and has repeatedly been beaten back sense. Inviable Children is TOO LATE. The problem with night commuting is no longer a problem. At its hight 40,000 children were night commuting but now there are only 10,000 who do it by choice. Uganda still has tons of problems, but it is NOT KONY.
the invisible children do not even send 50% of their revenue to Africa, the make about $9million in donations and send over $3million; don’t donate through invisible children find a real non profit organization that actually helps people if you want to help africa. SOURCE + Show Spoiler +
Even though Invisible Children might be misleading on some points, I think that ultimately what they're doing is still a good thing. Whether or not Kony is as a big problem now as he was in 2003, some effort should really be put into catching someone who's nr 1 on Haag's list. Saying "ahh no he's not been very active the last 6 years so let's cut him some slack" is very naive imo.
On March 07 2012 03:48 Kuja wrote: You know whats funny and what most people wont realize? This was filmed in 2003 when this was actually a problem. The problem with Uganda right now is not Kony its the corrupt government. the LRA was beaten back into congo in 2004; and has repeatedly been beaten back sense. Inviable Children is TOO LATE. The problem with night commuting is no longer a problem. At its hight 40,000 children were night commuting but now there are only 10,000 who do it by choice. Uganda still has tons of problems, but it is NOT KONY.
the invisible children do not even send 50% of their revenue to Africa, the make about $9million in donations and send over $3million; don’t donate through invisible children find a real non profit organization that actually helps people if you want to help africa. SOURCE + Show Spoiler +
On March 12 2012 06:11 FreeZer wrote: Even though Invisible Children might be misleading on some points, I think that ultimately what they're doing is still a good thing. Whether or not Kony is as a big problem now as he was in 2003, some effort should really be put into catching someone who's nr 1 on Haag's list. Saying "ahh no he's not been very active the last 6 years so let's cut him some slack" is very naive imo.
Its not their motive that people seems to be discord with. Its the reaction of the general public as one single video made from sensationalist view with good editing and cheesy musics can start a whole new movement in a blink of eye while there are much larger threat to humanity than Kony. This proves that the human race is very whimsical and would choose to act upon feelings rather than being rational. This whole event is face-palm worthy.