Teacher in trouble for reading Ender's Game - Page 13
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
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Mr Showtime
United States1353 Posts
On March 17 2012 03:44 Grettin wrote: Our History teacher showed us The Gladiator when i was in 5th Grade. I dont see why this is wrong. I find this issue to be silly, but showing 5th graders and R rated movie I find to be wrong. It's one thing if it's clips of the movie as a part of your education, but showing the entirety of the movie to 5th graders is too much. Not sure what your situation was. | ||
flowSthead
1065 Posts
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Aterons_toss
Romania1275 Posts
I can see them requesting the teacher not to read the book for various other reasons if the kids obviously don't enjoy it and complain to there parents about it BUT there is nothing i could catalog as "pornographic" in 1 million year. Then i guess, once again, its America, where people argue if porn and nu marriage sex should be legal but owning a gun is a god given right, i sometimes wonder if this kind of news come from America 90% of the time just because the market better since everyone has seen the "stupid American" thing so many times its just easier for the news to market or if this kind of events really happen in America at a 9-8/2-1 ratio to Europe This is not even bubble wraping a child, bubble wraping a child is not telling them what sex is until the 4th grade, bubble wraping a child is not letting him play a sport or ride a bike without "proper" protection, bubble wraping a child is calling him "special" when you know he is at the average of stupidity in school. This is just a whole new level of American justices system being incompetent an overall just stupid. And it would be oky if it was just isolated cases, but they are not it seems and they have been there forever in many ways ( "African American Jim" and one of the best teenager books ever being removed from school ring a bell ? ). I sometime wonder if there is anyone in the world who get offended that someone is naked in a completely non sex related scene in a fucking BOOK, or by the word nigger for that matter ( and no, im not talking about orb, im talking about Huckleberry finn, cuz i know there might be at least 1 guy who didn't get the above reference ) And least but not last, it horrifying that a book was the cause of this attack, if a movie,videoclip,song,picture,game... etc is attacked than i get why this might go by. But if a book, a good damn critically acclaimed book is the cause of this attack then you should have some sort of "intellectual" community stepping in here to defend the teacher and set things right, does something like that still exist in America ? I'm pretty sure it did 20 years ago, i just fell like that country is degrading every day, its like they are trying to go a step further into every stupid things they have gotten into in the last few decades while most European countries are finally starting to un ban some stupid things and " re promote" books and good authors in schools due to the lack of interest teen have in reading nowadays. Anyway, im going onto to much of a rant here, tl;dr point being... i strongly disagree with what happen. | ||
Grettin
42379 Posts
On March 17 2012 04:46 Mr Showtime wrote: I find this issue to be silly, but showing 5th graders and R rated movie I find to be wrong. It's one thing if it's clips of the movie as a part of your education, but showing the entirety of the movie to 5th graders is too much. Not sure what your situation was. Almost the whole movie, till the class ended. Now that i think about it after many years, i find it wrong too, but back then it wasn't that bad. Of course, for some it might and probably is. But as i said, i dont see why reading this book to these kids is wrong, especially compared to cases like i had. | ||
Erasme
Bahamas15893 Posts
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Fyrewolf
United States1533 Posts
On March 17 2012 02:42 TheWestWind wrote: Well, lets see your analysis of that analysis where you show how it missed the point. Or perhaps this one. http://www4.ncsu.edu/~tenshi/Killer_000.htm "The result is a character who exterminates an entire race and yet remains fundamentally innocent. The purpose of this paper is to examine the methods Card uses to construct this story of a guiltless genocide, to point out some contradictions inherent in this scenario, and to raise questions about the intention-based morality advocated by Ender’s Game and Speaker for the Dead." Also, your message is pretty worthless. Just LOL at Ender's Game. It is such a 'crock of bullshit' by a fundamentalist asshole who 'completely misses' the point of morality and uses clever writing to take advantage of his target audiences emotions. Ender is one of the worst written characters I've read of anywhere. ^^See how easy that is? Not to mention annoying. Actual adults don't argue like that. When they disagree with another argument they use reason and evidence to either disprove it or present a counter-argument. John Kessel (see above) also has some thoughts on why Ender's Game is so popular. "I would suggest that the methods of evasion that I have delineated in the text, and their congruency with the psychology of adolescence, offer an explanation for the novel’s deep and broad popularity." But if you love Ender's Game you should really read that paper. I never said whether I like or dislike the book, and did not analyze the analysis, just made some comments about it. And yes he did "completely miss" the point. It's NOT a story of a "guiltless genocide". At the end, Ender is so Guilt-Ridden about the fact he committed genocide, that he completely abandons the planet to leave on the colony ships and becomes the Speaker for the Dead. Ender Wiggen ceases to exist and he becomes Andrew Wiggen because it is so traumatizing to him. Because of the guilt he feels, he's continually trying to repent for the next 3000 years and next 3 books. | ||
DeepElemBlues
United States5075 Posts
"The result is a character who exterminates an entire race and yet remains fundamentally innocent. The purpose of this paper is to examine the methods Card uses to construct this story of a guiltless genocide, to point out some contradictions inherent in this scenario, and to raise questions about the intention-based morality advocated by Ender’s Game and Speaker for the Dead." Why should we care about some academic "analysis" of the Ender series when the whole series is basically two things and two things only (well, three if you count OSC's endless fascination with having characters act like just huge flaming assholes towards each other and justifying it because they're right, dammit!: 1. Ender has his entire life stolen from him, at no point until he reaches Lusitania does he ever really get to make choices for himself 2. Ender must redeem himself for the xenocide in order to get redemption which comes in the form of a do-over for his life (thanks to, of course, some deus ex machina) Nowhere does Card create a guiltless genocide, and none of the characters, not even Ender himself, believe that Ender is fundamentally innocent. Certainly that's what the reader is supposed to believe, but that's only because OSC is so heavy-handed in making Ender into Jesus in space. The problem is that OSC actually just isn't a good writer and couldn't develop his themes subtly through plot and character development so he does plot and character development with a big brass band instead. | ||
Fyrewolf
United States1533 Posts
On March 17 2012 04:12 nam nam wrote: I'm not sure what you want to say with your last paragraph, most books are "intended" for adults, that doesn't mean a 14 year old can't read it. I would have bashed my head in at that age if I was forced to read the "young adult" category of books. As would I if I was forced to read such books. It was merely a response to some of those in the thread who keep referring to it that way. A young adult could read "War and Peace", but people may not necessarily think it was appropriate, or could grasp all the concepts within, or whatever. It is an individual thing in the end as to whether or not a child is ready for a particular book. The point is that just because the book involves children, doesn't mean it's for children. His Dark Materials series (the golden compass) is also about children, but has some very advanced concepts that many children may not fully be able to comprehend when they read it. Does it mean they shouldn't read it yet? No, but they will understand more when they reread it as an adult. | ||
chocopaw
2072 Posts
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julianto
2292 Posts
On March 17 2012 04:46 Mr Showtime wrote: I find this issue to be silly, but showing 5th graders and R rated movie I find to be wrong. It's one thing if it's clips of the movie as a part of your education, but showing the entirety of the movie to 5th graders is too much. Not sure what your situation was. We watched Austin Powers in middle school and I didn't end up being a sexual deviant... | ||
dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
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Fyrewolf
United States1533 Posts
On March 17 2012 06:01 DeepElemBlues wrote: Why should we care about some academic "analysis" of the Ender series when the whole series is basically two things and two things only (well, three if you count OSC's endless fascination with having characters act like just huge flaming assholes towards each other and justifying it because they're right, dammit!: 1. Ender has his entire life stolen from him, at no point until he reaches Lusitania does he ever really get to make choices for himself 2. Ender must redeem himself for the xenocide in order to get redemption which comes in the form of a do-over for his life (thanks to, of course, some deus ex machina) Nowhere does Card create a guiltless genocide, and none of the characters, not even Ender himself, believe that Ender is fundamentally innocent. Certainly that's what the reader is supposed to believe, but that's only because OSC is so heavy-handed in making Ender into Jesus in space. The problem is that OSC actually just isn't a good writer and couldn't develop his themes subtly through plot and character development so he does plot and character development with a big brass band instead. Hahaha, I never thought of it that way, but you're right. Card just can't do subtle. His writing isn't terrible by any stretch, and he has a lot of good ideas and really likeable characters, but the way he waves exposition and plot around is really ham-fisted sometimes, and anything but subtle. | ||
rayNimagi
United States34 Posts
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justle
United States174 Posts
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Shockk
Germany2269 Posts
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justle
United States174 Posts
On March 17 2012 06:17 DeepElemBlues wrote: The problem is that OSC actually just isn't a good writer and couldn't develop his themes subtly through plot and character development so he does plot and character development with a big brass band instead. That seems like a heavy-handed criticism. Are you published? Have you written anything at all? Or have you just gotten really good at criticizing the work of others? I haven't read Ender's Game so I can't pretend to know, but saying someone "isn't a good writer" when talking about an award-winning, fairly successful book raises some concerns... | ||
Keitzer
United States2509 Posts
Like come on people.... it's not even that bad of a book... | ||
Fyrewolf
United States1533 Posts
On March 17 2012 07:29 justle wrote: That seems like a heavy-handed criticism. Are you published? Have you written anything at all? Or have you just gotten really good at criticizing the work of others? I haven't read Ender's Game so I can't pretend to know, but saying someone "isn't a good writer" when talking about an award-winning, fairly successful book raises some concerns... Way to misquote. That was DeepElemBlues whom I quoted in my post, not me. And he is entitled to his opinion. You don't have to be a good writer to analyze writing, as my english teacher who admits she can't write says. | ||
justle
United States174 Posts
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