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On March 17 2012 06:01 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +"The result is a character who exterminates an entire race and yet remains fundamentally innocent. The purpose of this paper is to examine the methods Card uses to construct this story of a guiltless genocide, to point out some contradictions inherent in this scenario, and to raise questions about the intention-based morality advocated by Ender’s Game and Speaker for the Dead." Why should we care about some academic "analysis" of the Ender series when the whole series is basically two things and two things only (well, three if you count OSC's endless fascination with having characters act like just huge flaming assholes towards each other and justifying it because they're right, dammit!: 1. Ender has his entire life stolen from him, at no point until he reaches Lusitania does he ever really get to make choices for himself 2. Ender must redeem himself for the xenocide in order to get redemption which comes in the form of a do-over for his life (thanks to, of course, some deus ex machina) Nowhere does Card create a guiltless genocide, and none of the characters, not even Ender himself, believe that Ender is fundamentally innocent. Certainly that's what the reader is supposed to believe, but that's only because OSC is so heavy-handed in making Ender into Jesus in space. The problem is that OSC actually just isn't a good writer and couldn't develop his themes subtly through plot and character development so he does plot and character development with a big brass band instead.
Um, just try to think clearly for one minute, OK?
In your point the second, Ender must redeem himself for the xenocide which, via your point the first, he never chose to commit? How can you be morally responsible for something over which you had no choice? The fact is that where there is no choice there can be no morality.
Not saying you are wrong, just saying that is why academic analysis of these kinds of books can be helpful.
The problem isn't with OSC's writing, which is technically good (above average I would say), but with his philosophy.
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I hate how because one sensitive parent says the word, the teacher gets let go without a chance to explain or anything.
And people why there are so few great public school teachers.
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In your point the second, Ender must redeem himself for the xenocide which, via your point the first, he never chose to commit? How can you be morally responsible for something over which you had no choice? The fact is that where there is no choice there can be no morality.
Not saying you are wrong, just saying that is why academic analysis of these kinds of books can be helpful.
The fact is that that is an assertion that is a starting point for a philosophical discussion, not an assertion to be dressed up as a fact to base an analysis on.
As such, it is actually a perfect example of why academic "analysis" is usually anything but; rather, it is an excuse to assert whatever the author usually already believed before the "analysis" took place.
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I got a book from my school library that I thought was just a victorian-era crime drama featuring an innocent, platonic friendship between a naive and innocent-seeming mistress who in reality had an abusive past, and her servant who was secretly a thief trying to rip her off but then ended up liking her so she couldn't do it. But then they turned out to be lesbians and even did dirty things in bed together, and then the maid got thrown into the CRAZY HOSPITAL for being a lesbian, and some other things happened but anyway it ended up with them living happily ever after and making a living by writing erotic fiction.
And this book was on a list of reading recommended by teachers! Why, I ought to write a letter. An ANGRY letter.
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On March 17 2012 08:07 Holytornados wrote: I hate how because one sensitive parent says the word, the teacher gets let go without a chance to explain or anything.
And people why there are so few great public school teachers. i hate how people make comments without reading the article.
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On March 16 2012 07:17 Kickboxer wrote: jesus christ holy fuck what the fuck
my sentiments...
This is a great example of the crazy society we've built where one retard wacko complainer can ruin things for everyone. I think they should re-instate the teacher and give him a god damn medal and tell that bitch to fuck off.
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On March 17 2012 08:36 Drowsy wrote:my sentiments... This is a great example of the crazy society we've built where one retard wacko complainer can ruin things for everyone. I think they should re-instate the teacher and give him a god damn medal and tell that bitch to fuck off.
The teacher reportedly selected the books, but may have not followed school policy that would require the books first be reviewed. seems medal worthy to me.
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On March 16 2012 10:36 Simberto wrote:+ Show Spoiler +This article is either unclear, or very manipulative. I find it interesting that, while it mentions Enders Game whenever possible, and that a book is considered pornographic, it never explicitly says that Enders Game is the questionable book there, but it is the only one of the three books named here. I somehow get the feeling that this article is just pure nerdbaiting, trying to enrage fans of the Ender series. Now, i don't know more about this then from the article, so i don't know if they are actually doing this, but it feels very much like the article tries to twist facts, so i am inclined to believe that the book the school and parents had a problem with was actually one of the other two that are not mentioned by name.
What i would guess actually happened (without having more information about this), is that the teacher read three books, one of those Enders Game, one a far more explicit and controversial book, the parents complained about that book, the teacher got problems.The reporter noticed that he would get far more views by implying that enders game was the problematic book, but did not want to outright lie, so he used confusing terminology. Thus we get a thread here and elsewhere, and he gets views and addmoney.
Not sure whether the article was trying to be manipulative, but it sounds like you're right that Ender's Game wasn't really the issue. I found this article: http://io9.com/5893928/an-update-on-the-sc-teacher-suspended-for-reading-from-pornographic-enders-game which says that the parent's complaint was to do with a passage referring to a prostitute getting ejaculated on. If such a passage was read, it sure wasn't from Ender's Game... The article also gives the other two books as well; I read the agatha christie one, also nothing pornographic in that, and I don't know the other one. But I find it suspicious that if such a passage was read, other students didn't complain. This makes me think that there was some misunderstanding or misinterpretation somewhere in the student's mind.
Having gone through public middle school, it occurs to me that what could have easily happened (assuming the best of everyone involved) is that the teacher read some passage from Ender's Game and then tried to have a discussion, and classmates brought up sexual allegories or something, leading the discussion down that path. Then the student felt he was being taught pornographic material, mentioned it to his parents, who flipped out and demand "what book was this??" and were told "Ender's Game". The parents having never read the book, assumed it was true and made this complaint. The school heard the complaint, scoffed at the idea (like many of us are inclined to do) and got ridiculously defensive, stonewalling the parent. The parent in return got all high and mighty and went to the police instead, and suddenly it's news! Meanwhile, the teacher gets put on leave as damage control, which (based on what my two teachforamerica friends tell me) sadly will always compromise his or her career no matter how this is resolved in the end.
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Parents will complain about anything
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Northern Ireland20731 Posts
I don't really understand why parents get so on their high horses on such issues. Exposure to bad language/sexual innuendo happens if you have peers of that age, parenting is not about shutting down information to your kid, but being an adequate filter in terms of explaining it and instilling certain moral attitudes.
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