|
On September 30 2012 23:11 nebula. wrote: People have such a retarded way of looking at free will.
Just because a person chooses to sell their body for money doesn't mean that person actually wants that. I think very very very few prostitutes actually do it by "pure free will". Selling one's body is not something you enjoy, even if it gives temporary physical pleasure. I'd say the very vast majority of prostitutes really don't enjoy their job and do it because it's the only way out of misery, or atleast a way to keep yourself from drowning. Just because a person chooses to work in a factory for money doesn't mean that person actually wants that. I think very very very few laborers actually do it by "pure free will". Working in a factory is not something you enjoy, even if it may give temporary physical pleasure. I'd say the very vast majority of laborers really don't enjoy their job and do it because it's the only way out of misery, or atleast a way to keep yourself from drowning.
|
On September 30 2012 23:11 nebula. wrote: MOST PEOPLE don't enjoy their job and do it because it's the only way out of misery, or atleast a way to keep yourself from drowning. Good point.
|
On September 30 2012 23:11 nebula. wrote: People have such a retarded way of looking at free will.
Just because a person chooses to sell their body for money doesn't mean that person actually wants that. I think very very very few prostitutes actually do it by "pure free will". Selling one's body is not something you enjoy, even if it gives temporary physical pleasure. I'd say the very vast majority of prostitutes really don't enjoy their job and do it because it's the only way out of misery, or atleast a way to keep yourself from drowning.
I don't think I've ever heard someone define free will as being free from constraints from nature, rather than other individuals. You just called a great many well regarded philosophers retarded, and suggested that one can only have free will if they are omnipotent. Such a definition for free will kind of makes the term useless for meaningful and practical discussion.
|
Should work be illegal because of slavery? It's the same with prostitution...
|
On September 30 2012 23:49 TzTz wrote: Should work be illegal because of slavery? It's the same with prostitution... So many things wrong with these parallelism, while they may appear true superficially.
1. Work usually entails some level of contract, hence agreement, but slavery...? 2. Labor/work requires skills acquired through some formal level of education and experience, but prostitution...? 3. Prostitution by definition is the submission of something intrinsically ethical, if I may borrow from feminist language, while labor/work is a function of external qualities of a human being.
I hope its clear
|
On October 01 2012 00:14 Friedrich Nietzsche wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 23:49 TzTz wrote: Should work be illegal because of slavery? It's the same with prostitution... So many things wrong with these parallelism, while they may appear true superficially. 1. Work usually entails some level of contract, hence agreement, but slavery...? 2. Labor/work requires skills acquired through some formal level of education and experience, but prostitution...? 3. Prostitution by definition is the submission of something intrinsically ethical, if I may borrow from feminist language, while labor/work is a function of external qualities of a human being. I hope its clear
1. I think he was saying that human trafficking and slavery isn't a reason to ban legitimate prostitution just as slavery isn't a reason to ban legitimate forms of work. 2. This isn't true at all. Plenty of labor requires few to no skills. Alternatively, many high end prostitutes are trained in seduction. The fact that some prostitutes are payed more than others, and significantly more, demonstrates that individual prostitutes have qualities that raise their value, be it physical attractiveness or something else. But even if your point was true, I hardly see how its relevant. 3. I don't think I understand this, it largely sounds like mumbo jumbo. It also sounds like something that isn't relevant. If someone wants to submit something intrinsically ethical, whatever the hell that means, I'd say they can do so if they damn please. But wouldn't something like modelling be doing the same thing? Modelling is considered legitimate work.
|
On October 01 2012 00:14 Friedrich Nietzsche wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 23:49 TzTz wrote: Should work be illegal because of slavery? It's the same with prostitution... 2. Labor/work requires skills acquired through some formal level of education and experience, but prostitution...? Oh hoho believe me experience makes a LOOOOOT of difference.
Any hot girl thinking she can make a quick buck by simply taking her clothes off and lying there is out of her mind.
A few bad reviews, word spreads like wildfire and you can kiss your gravy train goodbye.
|
On October 01 2012 00:44 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 00:14 Friedrich Nietzsche wrote:On September 30 2012 23:49 TzTz wrote: Should work be illegal because of slavery? It's the same with prostitution... 2. Labor/work requires skills acquired through some formal level of education and experience, but prostitution...? Oh hoho believe me experience makes a LOOOOOT of difference. Any hot girl thinking she can make a quick buck by simply taking her clothes off and lying there is out of her mind. A few bad reviews, word spreads like wildfire and you can kiss your gravy train goodbye.
Labor/work requires skills? Not underpaid labor by any means, life a few boxes and run the cashier compared to having to put out quality sex for X amount of time? If any labor/work requires skill then it's generally something well paid but like a spectrum that is only one end, the cheap easy labor for bad money can be compared and require hardly any skills.
|
smokeyhoodoo, S_SienZ, and NeMeSiS3
Are your posts even serious replies? Du you just hit post without even knowing what the thing you are replying to means?
What skills do you require to be a prostitute if all you need is a vagina? How you are marketed after that is another matter, but as far as being "qualified" for the "job", all you need is a vagina (if you are a woman prostitute, and lets not talk about prostitutes of other gender to limit the discussion). Same reply to the "experience" argument.
3. I don't think I understand this, it largely sounds like mumbo jumbo. It also sounds like something that isn't relevant. If someone wants to submit something intrinsically ethical, whatever the hell that means, I'd say they can do so if they damn please. But wouldn't something like modelling be doing the same thing? Modelling is considered legitimate work. Judith Butler. "Intrinsically ethical" means the "power positioning" of owning your body.
|
Ha, prostitution illegal in China, good joke. I've never seen a good reason for why prostitution should not be legal. I guess crime and the abuse of women are the biggest concerns but I feel that these 2 factors are much more prevalent when prostitution is illegal and you have to go to pimps and what not. I remember reading some article about how prostitution was outlawed because of stds and bastard children; I don't actually know if that's true but with contraceptives today that should not be nearly as large a problem. Never gonna happen in the United States though, the bible says it's wrong.
|
On October 01 2012 00:54 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 00:44 S_SienZ wrote:On October 01 2012 00:14 Friedrich Nietzsche wrote:On September 30 2012 23:49 TzTz wrote: Should work be illegal because of slavery? It's the same with prostitution... 2. Labor/work requires skills acquired through some formal level of education and experience, but prostitution...? Oh hoho believe me experience makes a LOOOOOT of difference. Any hot girl thinking she can make a quick buck by simply taking her clothes off and lying there is out of her mind. A few bad reviews, word spreads like wildfire and you can kiss your gravy train goodbye. Labor/work requires skills? Not underpaid labor by any means, life a few boxes and run the cashier compared to having to put out quality sex for X amount of time? If any labor/work requires skill then it's generally something well paid but like a spectrum that is only one end, the cheap easy labor for bad money can be compared and require hardly any skills. What you need to do the work is not the same as what you need to be able to continue to do the work.
|
On October 01 2012 01:09 Friedrich Nietzsche wrote:smokeyhoodoo, S_SienZ, and NeMeSiS3 Are your posts even serious replies? Du you just hit post without even knowing what the thing you are replying to means? What skills do you require to be a prostitute if all you need is a vagina? How you are marketed after that is another matter, but as far as being "qualified" for the "job", all you need is a vagina (if you are a woman prostitute, and lets not talk about prostitutes of other gender to limit the discussion). Same reply to the "experience" argument. Show nested quote +3. I don't think I understand this, it largely sounds like mumbo jumbo. It also sounds like something that isn't relevant. If someone wants to submit something intrinsically ethical, whatever the hell that means, I'd say they can do so if they damn please. But wouldn't something like modelling be doing the same thing? Modelling is considered legitimate work. Judith Butler. "Intrinsically ethical" means the "power positioning" of owning your body. I would have to say that your post is just as poorly thought out as those you are criticizing. Let me explain by examples: To be a prostitute all you need is a vagina To work an assembly job all you need is hands To be president all you need is citizenship
These are all drastic oversimplifications which have no practical use. Furthermore, they serve to dehumanize the worker and discredit the profession.
|
its been around forever....yet its always been illegal
|
My opinion is that if prostitution is to be legalized, then we need to severely improve the working conditions of prostitutes. For instance, contracts that prevents people from committing violent, degrading or harmful acts etc. without the consent of the prostitute, but that makes court cases hard to decide due to the prostitute being able to claim that they did not consent to said acts even if they agreed during the negotiations (and heavily in favor of the prostitute, like the state of rape cases being severely in the favor of the victim, even if the accused perpetrator is innocent).
I personally have never used prostitutes, so I cannot state exactly how prostitution works. My points of views are with brothels in mind, not street-sold prostitution. Though I would argue that if it is to be legalized, then they need to be confined to certain locations due to it being easier to monitor that way compared to the street-selling ways.
EDIT: Perhaps something like a government-run prostitution system could be used in order to try and prevent situations where pimps take advantages over their prostitutes. However, with the risk of corruption in the governments, I doubt this could be a viable solution as an end to these crimes.
|
On October 01 2012 01:09 Friedrich Nietzsche wrote:smokeyhoodoo, S_SienZ, and NeMeSiS3 Are your posts even serious replies? Du you just hit post without even knowing what the thing you are replying to means? What skills do you require to be a prostitute if all you need is a vagina? How you are marketed after that is another matter, but as far as being "qualified" for the "job", all you need is a vagina (if you are a woman prostitute, and lets not talk about prostitutes of other gender to limit the discussion). Same reply to the "experience" argument. Show nested quote +3. I don't think I understand this, it largely sounds like mumbo jumbo. It also sounds like something that isn't relevant. If someone wants to submit something intrinsically ethical, whatever the hell that means, I'd say they can do so if they damn please. But wouldn't something like modelling be doing the same thing? Modelling is considered legitimate work. Judith Butler. "Intrinsically ethical" means the "power positioning" of owning your body.
Your mind is scattered and strange.
|
On October 01 2012 01:22 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 01:09 Friedrich Nietzsche wrote:smokeyhoodoo, S_SienZ, and NeMeSiS3 Are your posts even serious replies? Du you just hit post without even knowing what the thing you are replying to means? What skills do you require to be a prostitute if all you need is a vagina? How you are marketed after that is another matter, but as far as being "qualified" for the "job", all you need is a vagina (if you are a woman prostitute, and lets not talk about prostitutes of other gender to limit the discussion). Same reply to the "experience" argument. 3. I don't think I understand this, it largely sounds like mumbo jumbo. It also sounds like something that isn't relevant. If someone wants to submit something intrinsically ethical, whatever the hell that means, I'd say they can do so if they damn please. But wouldn't something like modelling be doing the same thing? Modelling is considered legitimate work. Judith Butler. "Intrinsically ethical" means the "power positioning" of owning your body. I would have to say that your post is just as poorly thought out as those you are criticizing. Let me explain by examples: To be a prostitute all you need is a vagina To work an assembly job all you need is hands To be president all you need is citizenship These are all drastic oversimplifications which have no practical use. Furthermore, they serve to dehumanize the worker and discredit the profession. I don't think you understand him. He is saying the issue on what you need for the "job" and what you need in order to still be on your "job" are two different things. Remember he was replying to a post comparing work slavery to prostitution. In this regard, I think it is important to make sure that we are clear on our definitions and assumptions on the topic, and that is the practical purpose for us here.
|
On October 01 2012 01:25 Zvenn3n wrote: My opinion is that if prostitution is to be legalized, then we need to severely improve the working conditions of prostitutes. For instance, contracts that prevents people from committing violent, degrading or harmful acts etc. without the consent of the prostitute, but that makes court cases hard to decide due to the prostitute being able to claim that they did not consent to said acts even if they agreed during the negotiations (and heavily in favor of the prostitute, like the state of rape cases being severely in the favor of the victim, even if the accused perpetrator is innocent).
I personally have never used prostitutes, so I cannot state exactly how prostitution works. My points of views are with brothels in mind, not street-sold prostitution. Though I would argue that if it is to be legalized, then they need to be confined to certain locations due to it being easier to monitor that way compared to the street-selling ways.
EDIT: Perhaps something like a government-run prostitution system could be used in order to try and prevent situations where pimps take advantages over their prostitutes. However, with the risk of corruption in the governments, I doubt this could be a viable solution as an end to these crimes. WHAT? Government-run prostitution is like the worst idea a human being has ever thought of and uttered.
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On September 30 2012 23:32 Yorbon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 23:11 nebula. wrote: People have such a retarded way of looking at free will.
Just because a person chooses to sell their body for money doesn't mean that person actually wants that. I think very very very few prostitutes actually do it by "pure free will". Selling one's body is not something you enjoy, even if it gives temporary physical pleasure. I'd say the very vast majority of prostitutes really don't enjoy their job and do it because it's the only way out of misery, or atleast a way to keep yourself from drowning. Just because a person chooses to work in a factory for money doesn't mean that person actually wants that. I think very very very few laborers actually do it by "pure free will". Working in a factory is not something you enjoy, even if it may give temporary physical pleasure. I'd say the very vast majority of laborers really don't enjoy their job and do it because it's the only way out of misery, or atleast a way to keep yourself from drowning. who says that's not an argument against the neutrality of work? maybe this form of work is wrong too.
|
On October 01 2012 01:45 Le French wrote: WHAT? Government-run prostitution is like the worst idea a human being has ever thought of and uttered. Hence the "Perhaps" and "I doubt" parts. I find it hard to believe it could ever work out in our society.
|
On October 01 2012 01:34 smokeyhoodoo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 01:09 Friedrich Nietzsche wrote:smokeyhoodoo, S_SienZ, and NeMeSiS3 Are your posts even serious replies? Du you just hit post without even knowing what the thing you are replying to means? What skills do you require to be a prostitute if all you need is a vagina? How you are marketed after that is another matter, but as far as being "qualified" for the "job", all you need is a vagina (if you are a woman prostitute, and lets not talk about prostitutes of other gender to limit the discussion). Same reply to the "experience" argument. 3. I don't think I understand this, it largely sounds like mumbo jumbo. It also sounds like something that isn't relevant. If someone wants to submit something intrinsically ethical, whatever the hell that means, I'd say they can do so if they damn please. But wouldn't something like modelling be doing the same thing? Modelling is considered legitimate work. Judith Butler. "Intrinsically ethical" means the "power positioning" of owning your body. Your mind is scattered and strange.
I really dun't hit reply without reading, what skills does sex have? Well there is a reason there is "bad sex, good sex" and if sex is legalized and brothels have prostitutes with meager to no skills in the sack then no one would go there... It's even relatively insulting to women in general that you're implying good sex just requires a vagina and laying there ^^
|
|
|
|