On March 01 2015 01:34 [Phantom] wrote: Reading this thread makes me see that there really is a lot of anti russian propaganda in europe and the US xD. Putin maybe is bad, but hes in no way worse than the US or erupean goverments.
Also, i agree with the fact that killing him isn't the best idea from the russian goverment perspective (and even if they did it, itwasn't the best idea). Killing the one who opose you can just make it easier for people to say "oh look, they are more tyranic than what we thought, lets get them out of the goverment". That has happened through all history on different contries, so killing your opposers isn't the wiset thing to do, but who knows really.
RIP Boris Nemtsov
Yeah sure he is in no way worse than european governements or the US... so I guess Obama will still be president in 10 years?
Putin is now at 86% approval rating, Obama has like what? 20%?
Nemtsov was a non-factor of a non-factor in modern Russian politics, and was lately way more involved in business than politics. Wait for the investigation to finish then point fingers people, hysterical CNN tier speculating helps nobody. Seeing as how he was energy minister in Russia during the Yeltsin regime there is a long list of shady people he was in contact with.
Well powerful shady people at the top don't hire amateurs to do the job. The killing was done in a walking proximity to Kremlin, where hunders of cameras are around. If this is a business matter, all of the investigative power of FSB will be thrown at it to prove that Putin is clean. Do you think the assassin and the person behind it would want that and even make their job easy? This looks like a stupid hate crime right now, and there is a clear cut version of why he would be hated.
Nobody cared enough about him (politically) to kill him. That's like saying if Alex Jones got killed tomorrow Obama did it because he 'knew everything' and was threatening to expose it.
Nobody? Are you friends with every political psycho in Russia?
I meant nobody in a political sense, politically he was less than a non-threat. I would have more of a chance of breaking 1% of vote in the Australian elections than Nemtsov in the Russian ones.
It was highly planned so its maybe it could be one of those smart crazy people (not a crazy-crazy one). Though I don't see why a smart person would go to all this trouble to take out an extremely fringe politician.
edit: which is why the 'business' angle is probably the most logical.
to cut the long story short: do you think there is no hate atmosphere towards the so-called "fifth column" in Russia?
I think people who receive money by western governments to undermine Russia are just as disliked as people who receive money from Russia to undermine western governments in those countries. People universally don't like moles.
I don't live in Russia so I've never met a inner-city Moscovite liberal who works for an NGO, to tell you the truth I've never seen one in Serbia (apart from on TV) but they seem to be living well off of their paychecks. Though Serbia is an extremely politically messed up country at the moment to the point where you don't know who is doing what anymore. They are all paid by somebody though.
On March 01 2015 03:03 Narw wrote: But i'm not asking you about Ukraine situation here my friend. It's about St.Petersburg and Putin and that food transport of some sort? Let's clear those filihy suspicions of Putin ever being even remotly connected to illegal activity or anything in the likes of it by just showing how crystal his past it. Don't you agree?
I have no idea what you are talking about. Can you link an article?
edit: I can't find anything on google thats not on a clear propaganda source
On March 01 2015 02:12 Ghanburighan wrote: I think there's a fundamental misconception regarding how Russian propaganda works. It's not that they feed you a narrative that the Kremlin likes, that didn't even work in Soviet times, with the exception of inspiring countless jokes... Instead, they push out countless absurd theories (in this case, the different Kremlin controlled channels have used: Nemtsov's gf had an abortion, he was a CIA agent, muslims killed him because of Charlie Hebdo, the mafia killed him, Ukrainians killed him as a provocation). Each and every news piece is intentionally emotionally charged. This creates an atmosphere of mistrust, where you cannot trust anything you see in the media, you can't be sure of a single fact, or take any claim seriously. In the context of such mistrust, people are radicalized, the rational part of public discourse is diminished while emotional reactions are amplified. This makes it easier to rally people around an idea, such as an orthodox Russian war against Ukrainian nazis, and European homophiles. In the end, the facts don't matter, these are just emotionally unstable people reacting against a perceived injustice or threat, hoping to find a single stable point in a confusing world.
this post made the most sense to me. thanks for sharing this point of view
On March 01 2015 01:34 [Phantom] wrote: Reading this thread makes me see that there really is a lot of anti russian propaganda in europe and the US xD. Putin maybe is bad, but hes in no way worse than the US or erupean goverments.
Also, i agree with the fact that killing him isn't the best idea from the russian goverment perspective (and even if they did it, itwasn't the best idea). Killing the one who opose you can just make it easier for people to say "oh look, they are more tyranic than what we thought, lets get them out of the goverment". That has happened through all history on different contries, so killing your opposers isn't the wiset thing to do, but who knows really.
RIP Boris Nemtsov
Yeah sure he is in no way worse than european governements or the US... so I guess Obama will still be president in 10 years?
Putin is now at 86% approval rating, Obama has like what? 20%?
Nemtsov was a non-factor of a non-factor in modern Russian politics, and was lately way more involved in business than politics. Wait for the investigation to finish then point fingers people, hysterical CNN tier speculating helps nobody. Seeing as how he was energy minister in Russia during the Yeltsin regime there is a long list of shady people he was in contact with.
Well powerful shady people at the top don't hire amateurs to do the job. The killing was done in a walking proximity to Kremlin, where hunders of cameras are around. If this is a business matter, all of the investigative power of FSB will be thrown at it to prove that Putin is clean. Do you think the assassin and the person behind it would want that and even make their job easy? This looks like a stupid hate crime right now, and there is a clear cut version of why he would be hated.
Nobody cared enough about him (politically) to kill him. That's like saying if Alex Jones got killed tomorrow Obama did it because he 'knew everything' and was threatening to expose it.
Nobody? Are you friends with every political psycho in Russia?
I meant nobody in a political sense, politically he was less than a non-threat. I would have more of a chance of breaking 1% of vote in the Australian elections than Nemtsov in the Russian ones.
It was highly planned so its maybe it could be one of those smart crazy people (not a crazy-crazy one). Though I don't see why a smart person would go to all this trouble to take out an extremely fringe politician.
edit: which is why the 'business' angle is probably the most logical.
to cut the long story short: do you think there is no hate atmosphere towards the so-called "fifth column" in Russia?
I think people who receive money by western governments to undermine Russia are just as disliked as people who receive money from Russia to undermine western governments in those countries. People universally don't like moles.
So you are saying that there is some hate atmosphere towards the so-called "fifth column" in Russia, but it is totally in line with the relevant hate atmospheres in other countries?
On March 01 2015 01:34 [Phantom] wrote: Reading this thread makes me see that there really is a lot of anti russian propaganda in europe and the US xD. Putin maybe is bad, but hes in no way worse than the US or erupean goverments.
Also, i agree with the fact that killing him isn't the best idea from the russian goverment perspective (and even if they did it, itwasn't the best idea). Killing the one who opose you can just make it easier for people to say "oh look, they are more tyranic than what we thought, lets get them out of the goverment". That has happened through all history on different contries, so killing your opposers isn't the wiset thing to do, but who knows really.
RIP Boris Nemtsov
Yeah sure he is in no way worse than european governements or the US... so I guess Obama will still be president in 10 years?
Putin is now at 86% approval rating, Obama has like what? 20%?
Nemtsov was a non-factor of a non-factor in modern Russian politics, and was lately way more involved in business than politics. Wait for the investigation to finish then point fingers people, hysterical CNN tier speculating helps nobody. Seeing as how he was energy minister in Russia during the Yeltsin regime there is a long list of shady people he was in contact with.
Well powerful shady people at the top don't hire amateurs to do the job. The killing was done in a walking proximity to Kremlin, where hunders of cameras are around. If this is a business matter, all of the investigative power of FSB will be thrown at it to prove that Putin is clean. Do you think the assassin and the person behind it would want that and even make their job easy? This looks like a stupid hate crime right now, and there is a clear cut version of why he would be hated.
Nobody cared enough about him (politically) to kill him. That's like saying if Alex Jones got killed tomorrow Obama did it because he 'knew everything' and was threatening to expose it.
Nobody? Are you friends with every political psycho in Russia?
I meant nobody in a political sense, politically he was less than a non-threat. I would have more of a chance of breaking 1% of vote in the Australian elections than Nemtsov in the Russian ones.
It was highly planned so its maybe it could be one of those smart crazy people (not a crazy-crazy one). Though I don't see why a smart person would go to all this trouble to take out an extremely fringe politician.
edit: which is why the 'business' angle is probably the most logical.
to cut the long story short: do you think there is no hate atmosphere towards the so-called "fifth column" in Russia?
I think people who receive money by western governments to undermine Russia are just as disliked as people who receive money from Russia to undermine western governments in those countries. People universally don't like moles.
So you are saying that there is some hate atmosphere towards the so-called "fifth column" in Russia, but it is totally in line with the relevant hate atmospheres in other countries?
I've answered this question like 3 times already. Is there a point to all of this?
On March 01 2015 01:34 [Phantom] wrote: Reading this thread makes me see that there really is a lot of anti russian propaganda in europe and the US xD. Putin maybe is bad, but hes in no way worse than the US or erupean goverments.
Also, i agree with the fact that killing him isn't the best idea from the russian goverment perspective (and even if they did it, itwasn't the best idea). Killing the one who opose you can just make it easier for people to say "oh look, they are more tyranic than what we thought, lets get them out of the goverment". That has happened through all history on different contries, so killing your opposers isn't the wiset thing to do, but who knows really.
RIP Boris Nemtsov
Yeah sure he is in no way worse than european governements or the US... so I guess Obama will still be president in 10 years?
Putin is now at 86% approval rating, Obama has like what? 20%?
Nemtsov was a non-factor of a non-factor in modern Russian politics, and was lately way more involved in business than politics. Wait for the investigation to finish then point fingers people, hysterical CNN tier speculating helps nobody. Seeing as how he was energy minister in Russia during the Yeltsin regime there is a long list of shady people he was in contact with.
Well powerful shady people at the top don't hire amateurs to do the job. The killing was done in a walking proximity to Kremlin, where hunders of cameras are around. If this is a business matter, all of the investigative power of FSB will be thrown at it to prove that Putin is clean. Do you think the assassin and the person behind it would want that and even make their job easy? This looks like a stupid hate crime right now, and there is a clear cut version of why he would be hated.
Nobody cared enough about him (politically) to kill him. That's like saying if Alex Jones got killed tomorrow Obama did it because he 'knew everything' and was threatening to expose it.
Is this Boris Nemtsov really the equivalent of Alex Jones? The guy actually served in government in multiple stations, whereas Jones is a crazy person that owns a bunch of radio stations.
On March 01 2015 01:36 Jetaap wrote: [quote] Yeah sure he is in no way worse than european governements or the US... so I guess Obama will still be president in 10 years?
Putin is now at 86% approval rating, Obama has like what? 20%?
Nemtsov was a non-factor of a non-factor in modern Russian politics, and was lately way more involved in business than politics. Wait for the investigation to finish then point fingers people, hysterical CNN tier speculating helps nobody. Seeing as how he was energy minister in Russia during the Yeltsin regime there is a long list of shady people he was in contact with.
Well powerful shady people at the top don't hire amateurs to do the job. The killing was done in a walking proximity to Kremlin, where hunders of cameras are around. If this is a business matter, all of the investigative power of FSB will be thrown at it to prove that Putin is clean. Do you think the assassin and the person behind it would want that and even make their job easy? This looks like a stupid hate crime right now, and there is a clear cut version of why he would be hated.
Nobody cared enough about him (politically) to kill him. That's like saying if Alex Jones got killed tomorrow Obama did it because he 'knew everything' and was threatening to expose it.
Nobody? Are you friends with every political psycho in Russia?
I meant nobody in a political sense, politically he was less than a non-threat. I would have more of a chance of breaking 1% of vote in the Australian elections than Nemtsov in the Russian ones.
It was highly planned so its maybe it could be one of those smart crazy people (not a crazy-crazy one). Though I don't see why a smart person would go to all this trouble to take out an extremely fringe politician.
edit: which is why the 'business' angle is probably the most logical.
to cut the long story short: do you think there is no hate atmosphere towards the so-called "fifth column" in Russia?
I think people who receive money by western governments to undermine Russia are just as disliked as people who receive money from Russia to undermine western governments in those countries. People universally don't like moles.
So you are saying that there is some hate atmosphere towards the so-called "fifth column" in Russia, but it is totally in line with the relevant hate atmospheres in other countries?
I've answered this question like 3 times already. Is there a point to all of this?
The point is, as I see it, that the irrational, extremely hateful atmosphere towards every single public figure who disaggrees with the government's course of action / point of view, spread through the majority of Russian mass media, is enough to influence some group of aggressive conservative pseudo-patriots, "religious" anti-maidan members or whoever else who believes he might be doing the society a favor this way, into committing such a crime.
I would be extremely afraid to be in an open opposition to the dictatorship of Putin. I admire people who have so much courage to act and express their displeasure of current Russian politics. You are basically terrorized to remain in obedience. This is the true terrorism.
On February 28 2015 18:43 Narw wrote: If any of you still have delusions of Russia being a democracy, where law and rights of opposition of Kremlin are respected, please get rid of those. You will save yourself future disappointments.
Oh, the "Putin dosn't gain anything from having him/her killed/arrested" is getting old.
Bonus points for "provocation", waiting for Ławrow to appear with "CIA did this" line.
Point is, Putin really does not gain anything from having him killed here, well, except the ability to swiftly get rid of the report Nemtsov was preparing, that could have acted like an actual trigger. Could have.
On February 28 2015 19:09 Sprouter wrote: Wow they don't care just shoot him on the street
Few hundreds meters away from Kremlin too!
Considering the men he had sentenced to life time in prison and then proceeding to having their food poisoned? Look there is nothing stopping this man from taking others down. He wanted that oil-pipeline for his government just like he can take out anyone who opposes him.
On March 01 2015 01:34 [Phantom] wrote: Reading this thread makes me see that there really is a lot of anti russian propaganda in europe and the US xD. Putin maybe is bad, but hes in no way worse than the US or erupean goverments.
Also, i agree with the fact that killing him isn't the best idea from the russian goverment perspective (and even if they did it, itwasn't the best idea). Killing the one who opose you can just make it easier for people to say "oh look, they are more tyranic than what we thought, lets get them out of the goverment". That has happened through all history on different contries, so killing your opposers isn't the wiset thing to do, but who knows really.
RIP Boris Nemtsov
Yeah sure he is in no way worse than european governements or the US... so I guess Obama will still be president in 10 years?
Putin is now at 86% approval rating, Obama has like what? 20%?
Nemtsov was a non-factor of a non-factor in modern Russian politics, and was lately way more involved in business than politics. Wait for the investigation to finish then point fingers people, hysterical CNN tier speculating helps nobody. Seeing as how he was energy minister in Russia during the Yeltsin regime there is a long list of shady people he was in contact with.
Well powerful shady people at the top don't hire amateurs to do the job. The killing was done in a walking proximity to Kremlin, where hunders of cameras are around. If this is a business matter, all of the investigative power of FSB will be thrown at it to prove that Putin is clean. Do you think the assassin and the person behind it would want that and even make their job easy? This looks like a stupid hate crime right now, and there is a clear cut version of why he would be hated.
Nobody cared enough about him (politically) to kill him. That's like saying if Alex Jones got killed tomorrow Obama did it because he 'knew everything' and was threatening to expose it.
Is this Boris Nemtsov really the equivalent of Alex Jones? The guy actually served in government in multiple stations, whereas Jones is a crazy person that owns a bunch of radio stations.
Alex Jones would get more votes in the US than Nemtsov would get in Russia though. The fact that someone like Alex Jones has more credibility as a politician than Nemtsov shows just how much of a non-factor these fringe politicians are. Fringe is fringe.
There are many people who served in Bush and Clinton administrations who are less than nobodies whose views nobody cares about. Jesse Ventura was the governor of Minnesota from 1999 till 2003, if he died it wouldn't mean FEMA death camps exist.
@zeo I understand that his star had fallen, and so may be irrelevant in that sense. But what were his views that were so extreme that lead you to compare him to Alex Jones? NWO-believing, moon-landing faked, 9/11 truther Alex Jones?
On March 01 2015 02:55 xuanzue wrote: so, the PARNAS has 1 seat of 3787. and here people really like to sell like this guy was a real threat to Putin.
So name me 3 most influentional oppositional leaders in Russia for the 27.02.2015
Gary Kasparov(1), and his twitter account.
and Gennady Zyuganov(2) and any other guy (3)from the communist party. I'm pretty sure the 2nd political force in Russia is the communist party and they are more a real threat against Putin.
On March 01 2015 04:45 Falling wrote: @zeo I understand that his star had fallen, and so may be irrelevant in that sense. But what were his views that were so extreme that lead you to compare him to Alex Jones? NWO-believing, moon-landing faked, 9/11 truther Alex Jones?
Oh no, I didn't mean it like that. I'm not saying they hold the same views, I'm saying that even somebody with 'moonlanding hoax' views would be a more relevant politician than Nemtsov. Maybe there were other politicians holding the same views as him that voters liked more, idk. There are many political parties in eastern Europe that exist only to get election money and whose names you only see on ballot sheets during election, I'm sure many people in Russia don't even know the name of the party he was the head of.
On March 01 2015 04:45 Falling wrote: @zeo I understand that his star had fallen, and so may be irrelevant in that sense. But what were his views that were so extreme that lead you to compare him to Alex Jones? NWO-believing, moon-landing faked, 9/11 truther Alex Jones?
he believed that the russian government is corrupt ... i guess that's enough for zeo
On March 01 2015 04:45 Falling wrote: @zeo I understand that his star had fallen, and so may be irrelevant in that sense. But what were his views that were so extreme that lead you to compare him to Alex Jones? NWO-believing, moon-landing faked, 9/11 truther Alex Jones?
he believed that the russian government is corrupt ... i guess that's enough for zeo
You do realize you are talking about someone that held a high ranking position in a government so bad, so corrupt, so awful that they made Putin look like the savior of Russia? It's like the perfect opposition for Putin, imagine how bad you have to be to make Putin look 90% approval rating good? Putin probably wishes these opposition leaders stay around forever.
On March 01 2015 02:55 xuanzue wrote: so, the PARNAS has 1 seat of 3787. and here people really like to sell like this guy was a real threat to Putin.
So name me 3 most influentional oppositional leaders in Russia for the 27.02.2015
Gary Kasparov(1), and his twitter account.
and Gennady Zyuganov(2) and any other guy (3)from the communist party. I'm pretty sure the 2nd political force in Russia is the communist party and they are more a real threat against Putin.
What makes you think Communist Party is in any way opposition towards Kremlin and in which way they pose any threat to Putin? Also i can't read minds, so feel free to elaborate who is the other guy.
By opposition i mean a party that actively seeks to challenge and question actions of current government, not some exotic guy who likes to tell that Putin isn't Stalin (it's a negative in his eyes) and starts in Presidental elections.