If your strategy isn't to outplay your opponent, but to rely on them failing, then that's cheese.
Help me define cheese - Page 4
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Flew
United Kingdom133 Posts
If your strategy isn't to outplay your opponent, but to rely on them failing, then that's cheese. | ||
kNightLite
United States408 Posts
I think that cheese is abusing early game mechanics in order to obtain an auto-win. This includes abusing fast cloak/burrow, abusing fast air before your opponent can obtain antiair, and abusing rocked attack paths early. I don't consider proxies cheese, they're just another high risk high reward strategy much like fast expanding. | ||
Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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fams
Canada731 Posts
For instance, any chobo can copy a cheese strat and ladder up to Diamond with it, even Masters apparently (see 7pool thread). But it takes real skill to adapt and create. | ||
HornyHydra
Taiwan222 Posts
TL:DR Cheese is an early all in strategy that is risky and makes the player fall behind greatly in economy and is usually unrecoverable (meaning a gg for the cheesing player) after it fails or is unable to deal sufficient amounts of damage to cripple the player being cheesed. The key difference between cheese and all-in is the timing; all-in can happen later in the game while cheese happens generally in the early game. | ||
LicH.
China235 Posts
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dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
On April 16 2011 07:33 LicH. wrote: M.C. v WhiteRa game 5 = cheese No it wasn't. MC explained WhiteRa skipped Zealot every game so he knew a double proxy would own him. Not really cheesy, just smart play imo ^_^ | ||
iamke55
United States2806 Posts
On April 16 2011 07:33 LicH. wrote: M.C. v WhiteRa game 5 = cheese Yep, I'm glad WhiteRa's econ cheese got punished there. Would've been ridiculous for someone to get away with that 5 games in a row. | ||
LicH.
China235 Posts
On April 16 2011 07:42 dani` wrote: No it wasn't. MC explained WhiteRa skipped Zealot every game so he knew a double proxy would own him. Not really cheesy, just smart play imo ^_^ It appears that the day has come when a double proxy gate is no longer considered cheese. Next thing you know 6 pool is gonna be called a timing attack. | ||
DreamSailor
Canada433 Posts
As soon as the game starts its you or him. Whatever you or he does to win doesn't matter. If he cuts econ in an attempt to kill you early, and it works, it was well planned, and well executed. Cannon Rushes, Proxy gates/rax and 6Pools are viable, and can be clever ways to destroy your opponent. I also don't like the term "All in" because you have the -potential- to come back, provided you deal equal or greater damage to him then you caused yourself. My $0.02. | ||
Sweetness.751
United States225 Posts
Terran does a proxy Factory to land in your base and produce hellions and does a proxy Starport w/ cloaked banshees(In a different area). All without every considering to expo. Honestly i wouldn't call the proxy Factory a cheese, more like a gimmicky play that can pay for itself from time to time. But the proxy Starport with cloaked banshees, in addition, definitely qualifies the build as cheese. | ||
Yoshi Kirishima
United States10153 Posts
Though, it wouldn't hurt to me to call all-in and proxy as "cheesy" because they can exhibit characteristics of cheese as you mentioned. I think this is the best way to go about it. No it wasn't. MC explained WhiteRa skipped Zealot every game so he knew a double proxy would own him. Not really cheesy, just smart play imo ^_^ Smart play can't be cheese? | ||
thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
On April 16 2011 07:42 dani` wrote: No it wasn't. MC explained WhiteRa skipped Zealot every game so he knew a double proxy would own him. Not really cheesy, just smart play imo ^_^ It may actually be smart to mix some cheese into a multigame series (or vs players that you play a lot) for mindgame reasons. This would be an example of a smart cheese. Dumb cheese would be when you cheese for ladder points against people you only play once. | ||
manicshock
Canada741 Posts
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AimlessAmoeba
Canada704 Posts
On April 16 2011 02:10 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote: Cheese is the curd of milk separated from the whey and prepared in many ways as a food. Cheese is produced throughout the world in wide-ranging flavors, textures, and forms. Indeed. | ||
teekesselchen
Germany886 Posts
On April 16 2011 06:12 Flew wrote: I would define cheese as something which relies on your opponent messing up - so I think the Wiki definition is correct. If your strategy isn't to outplay your opponent, but to rely on them failing, then that's cheese. Depending on the scale of messing up, this is always the case. I, as a human beeing, won't be able to win against an opponent never messing up the slightest thing (= playing perfect). Cheese as all-in is a flawed or incomplete definition, too. I can 100% commit to a push at 20 minutes into the game, but nobody would call it a cheese. Apart from that, many "cheesy" tactics have a potential equal outcome for both sides. Such as a six-pool that does not kill the opponent, but damages him enough to justify the own investment and economic handicap. Watch ActionJesuz' stream for example. He almost always plays six-pool (chewing through every protosses wall-in), but usually the game progresses beyond that. The Liquipedia definition is pretty good already, but is leaving a very huge space for "normal" tactics to be called cheesy. | ||
Authweight
United States304 Posts
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darthcaesar
United States475 Posts
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Owarida
United States333 Posts
Terran Protoss | ||
KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
From what I've read on TL, cheese is something like a strategy that can have a great pay-off, but relies on your opponent not being able to scout it being prepared (although that makes marine scv a little bit ambiguous) | ||
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