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Not much to discuss here. He's fine with the penalty he got, and no further penalty is necessary. The case is closed.
Conclusions: event organizers have to keep in mind that occasionally a player may drop out due to being tired; players have to keep in mind that events may reduce their reward in case of dropping out due to being tired. Pretty fair for both sides.
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On January 31 2012 09:19 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:15 Agathon wrote:On January 31 2012 08:33 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 08:21 purecarnagge wrote:On January 31 2012 06:41 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 06:30 eYeball wrote: Waiting for another thread regarding Tyler to show up any second now, TeamLiquid Esports. I am not sure whether people are actually serious about this, do you really think that there should be a thread every time someone forfeits in a tournament? Do you truly think that "Tyler forfeits round 1 of tournament" is worth a thread by itself? It is not a notable news worthy event. The situation with Stephano in the finals of a major invitational (3k prize pool) is something that never happened before, and about a player who is one of the best (if not the best) non-Koreans. Think about what would happen in either scenario: 1. We make a thread just about Tyler forfeiting People complain because it clearly isn't news worthy. Tyler dropping out in the first round doesn't really affect the tournament. Tyler isn't winning championships and didn't forfeit in the finals. People will say its just TL "hyping another one of their players who doesn't get results" etc. 2. We don't make a thread about Tyler forfeiting People react like they are in this thread Tyler forfeiting doesn't fit in this thread, and isn't even close to the level of notability / newsworthiness that this situation with Stephano is. It seems a bit unfair and far too easy to just point and yell bias all the time. I still don't understand whether people actually believe there should be a thread about Tyler's forfeit or whether they just like finding things to complain about. If it was any other player forfeiting (not Tyler) in the first round, we still wouldn't make a thread about it. On January 31 2012 06:45 Hot_Bid wrote: I don't understand how people can say its hypocrisy that there is no thread about Tyler when if it was anyone else who forfeits first round (literally anyone, doesn't have to be Liquid) we wouldn't make a thread about it.
To summarize: 1. Anyone forfeiting first round, no thread, not newsworthy 2. One of the best foreigners forfeiting invitational right before finals, yes thread
#1 doesn't matter if it's Liquid, there wouldn't be a thread about Destiny or Flo or Incontrol or anyone else forfeiting first round, this should be obvious to anyone. There is no special treatment for Tyler. While I understand ONOGs position of wanting to clarify the situation with Stephano especially after such a lengthy delay in there schedule. I just find it completely odd that nobody wants to mention the other withdrawal from the tournament. That being Liquid Tyler. While I would like to think that Tyler understands being a professional more than most in this industry and his career. I find it rather amusing that your so quick to stick up for him, post multiple times, then offer no reason to the community. The same community that he asks to support him, his site, his team, makes $$ off of through advertising and streaming. First, I never "defended" Tyler's decision to forfeit. I only defended our decision not to make a thread about it. Look through my posts, not once have I defended the actual action. It isn't mentioned here because it shouldn't be. That's the bottom line. This is a thread about something that is worth having a news topic. I've stated why. It is interesting that you read so much bias into my posts when I never once talked about whether I approved or disapproved of his decision to withdraw. Second, I don't know why Tyler forfeited, so I don't have a viewpoint on it. If it was because "he didn't feel like playing" then yes I think it's a bad decision. If it's because his friend is in the hospital, then I think it's justified. Do I believe he should state why? Yeah I do. Again, none of this is relevant to the thread at hand. If it was any other player, Incontrol, Destiny, Sase, anyone in this tournament else I'd still have the same opinion and act the same way. Of course, you wouldn't be accusing me of bias then so I wouldn't have to make this post. Lastly, the thread doesn't defend or state a viewpoint on who was right. It doesn't villainize Stephano or ONOG, and I think it does a good job of aggregating data and presenting responses and facts. It doesn't push a specific interpretation of who was right in this. Liquid has always been cleaner than the rest. They were always the guys that people gravitated towards because they did it better than the other guys, even when they weren't performing, and they always had fun. What does leaving in the 1st round have to do with being a professional. The bottom line is it isn't professional. Not offering an explanation to your supporters isn't either.
Does Tyler owe anyone an explanation? No, he doesn't. He doesn't have to do a damn thing. Your posts defending him and saying nothing when 70% of his supporters simply want to know "why?". These are the supporters paying his bills, his teams bills, and making this site one of the best on the internet.
Its just an opinion. It's not the most news worthy event but people would like to know. If people want to know then guess what...Thats NEWS!!!!!!!! OMG LIQUID TYLER IS NEWS ON TEAMLIQUID.NET. Again, I am not Tyler. I do not know why he forfeited. Do I want an explanation just like you? Yes, I would like one. What is your point? I didn't defend him, I just don't know why he forfeited. Contrary to you, I actually do think he owes fans and organizers some sort of explanation. I really feel like sometimes people just look really hard for bias when it's not there, I didn't defend Tyler's actions at all in this thread, I just defended our decision not to make a separate thread about him. We'd not make a thread if it was a player of Tyler's stature and caliber even if he was not on Liquid so I don't see the bias. "Second, I don't know why Tyler forfeited" and you know more what's in Stephano's head? I don't say that to blame you, honestly, but maybe;;;Stephano was not even tired. Maybe he just wanted to let Kas win, Kas who leaves in a poor country countrary of France, and who is universally loved (because he's...lovely) to get the money he needs, and that Stephano doesn't. How could you even know? (honestly i doubt it was the case, but, neither me, neither you really knows) Are you being serious right now? Stephano literally said he was tired, we can only take what he says at face value. He could be stopping an alien invasion instead of playing in the ONOG finals we have no idea. Great. Show nested quote +And i think (i hope tbh) i'm not derailing the thread. I'm speaking about the reasons of it's own existence, and in the same time about the non existence of other threads like this one, exactly like you do. You're justifying the existence of this thread (and i respect that), i think i'm not out of topic.
The question remains. Why Tyler is ok (and could let his place to another player who might beat everybody, like Illusion barely did), and Stephano isn't ? Again, who said what Tyler did was ok??? I certainly didn't say it was OK. You are arguing against nobody. I only said it is not big enough to be it's own thread. Tyler is not Stephano, and first round is not finals. Show nested quote +My question is : Why there is a thread about this Stephano's forfeit, and nothing about all the other forfeit or any bad behaviour that append every day, at least in EU online cups? By pros ! By very known and loved players ! There are plenty of reasons why. I stated so in my post. Scale, prizes, viewers, circumstances, there's a lot. You seem to be indicating this thread is a hit-job on Stephano, but it's just presenting facts. Plenty of people are defending Stephano. Show nested quote +It's the same bashing for everybody or no bashing at all. Just few players; it doesn't make any sens to me.
We have a sentence for that in french, it's "Deux poids, deux mesures", "Two weights, two scales", "Double standards". It's not fair. It wasn't fair for me about Naniwa's drone rush drama, it's not fair now either.
I hope i expressed my point correctly, and that everybody will understand my point, even they disagree. It's not a double standard because if Tyler or Incontrol or Destiny did this we'd make a thread too. There is no conspiracy against Stephano, in fact if you actually read our news, all the writers love Stephano. It pains me that I even have to say that last sentence to justify just reporting on the facts of a situation, but yeah.
Thanks for your answer, interesting, and i'm slowly getting your pov.
One point i want to enlight, because it's my main point ; "Again, who said what Tyler did was ok??? I certainly didn't say it was OK. You are arguing against nobody. I only said it is not big enough to be it's own thread. Tyler is not Stephano, and first round is not finals."
Who said that? The fact their is not thread about tyler on TL's main page. Just that. It's enough. No thread at all, or a thread for each/all of them. You know what i mean? Maybe some underdogs wanted to show their talents, and they would love to get the Stephano's or Tyler's place. Two places lots for 2 borning talents. Why just one guy blamed?
I would suggest a change of main topic : "Bad behaviour during ONOG". That would be fair to me. Even everybody was blaming mostly Stephano in posts.
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On January 31 2012 09:35 Full.tilt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:08 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 09:05 dsousa wrote:On January 31 2012 08:54 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 08:49 dsousa wrote:On January 31 2012 08:45 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 08:43 dsousa wrote:On January 31 2012 08:41 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 08:37 Quakie wrote: I got ya, Hot_Bid. Doesn't seem like it is bias at place here. Over to the case, Stephano seems to be a very blunt guy, and I think this also got to him here a bit. Its frustrating because even if someone makes a really shitty OP like "Liquid sucks now man" we'd have to consider leaving it open even if we'd instantly close an "EG sucks now man" or "Mouz sucks now man" thread, because people get all wound up about perceived bias. 1. If any other non-Liquid player forfeited first round, we'd not make a thread 2. If Tyler or Ret or Zenio or Hero forfeited in the finals for a similar reason as Stephano did, we'd make a thread You can believe us or not about the truth of these two statements, but that is what we'd do, and if that's the case then there is no hypocrisy here. As for the newsworthiness of this, of course it's news, it's one of the best if not the best non Korean forfeiting in the finals of a semi-major community organized tournament with a 3k prize pool. It's about as concrete news and notable as it gets. Did you make a thread about Polt? We did not make a thread about Polt. Are you saying we should have? Or that us not making a thread about Polt is somehow unfair? Please clarify. Because I am pretty sure we were right not to make a thread about Polt. However, if you feel that there is an epidemic of forfeits and it is discussion worthy, you can make a thread about all of them in SC2 General with a nice OP. Did you make a thread about Polt? You can. I'm just pointing out the fact that this happened to Stephano because he's the "IT" guy right now and this post is feeding the mob. ONOG and Zotac daily are different in notability, structure (invites vs open) and scale (prize pool / viewers). I don't buy the "don't feed the mob." If it's a notable topic worthy of discussion (and this clearly qualifies as concrete news), you present facts and that's it. There are plenty of people defending Stephano in this thread as well as those criticizing him. Do people who are saying "Where's the thread about Tyler or Polt" really believe there should be one? Circumstances matter. This was a much more high profile, bigger event than Zotac, and best foreigner in the finals is not ordinary pro in the first round. This concept of "thread-worthiness" eludes me... but I do think it is piling on by making it the top story on TL Community News. Why not just a general SC2 post? I reserve the right to be disappointed with TL for making this the top story of the day. If the tournament was so significant, then Kas winning should be the top story. In the future, we will be making news changes to have headlines with results too. I agree that in a perfect world the top story should be Kas winning, but the reality is that the Stephano forfeit eclipses the actual results of the tournament. We are simply reporting on this which has become the biggest most notable story of the event, which is unfortunate but the harsh truth. Self fulfilling prophecy, you make this issue the top of SC2 General and Community News.... You could make the results top of one or both if you wanted to and like the majority of other drama that occurs during tourney's it generally stays in the LR thread of that tourney. Since you are familiar with the LR thread it should be obvious that Kas winning wasn't the top story... Yes, it's unfortunate that player drama>results. However, that's the community's fault. The TL staff is simply responding to the community and making the story more accessible.
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IDK If this was a smart choice by ONOG.
To be honest, he informed them that there was another tournie he was in. They yes delayed the match for a long while. Aside that, they could have let Kas know and had a discussion about playing the next day ect.
Wouldn't you want your finals to be the best possible....ect?
Meh, idk.
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Oh vindictive nerds on the internet, a lot of whom never lifted a finger unless it was to grab another potato chip from the bag let alone experienced a hard day's work.
User was temp banned for this post.
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SoCal8898 Posts
personally i wonder if this was more of a timing issue of an online tournament. the final was kinda late EST so i could understand that stephano couldn't stay up any longer, being that he was in france. perhaps a better schedule would have helped. then again, stephano was around 45 minutes late to his match, so im sure that didn't make matters any better.
but i do think that he should have played the games, just like i feel naniwa should have played his games.
side note: i bet stephano thought that he was fine with taking 2nd place money via forfeit. 4th place, probably was a bit of a disappointment
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On January 31 2012 09:41 NekoFlandre wrote: IDK If this was a smart choice by ONOG.
To be honest, he informed them that there was another tournie he was in. They yes delayed the match for a long while. Aside that, they could have let Kas know and had a discussion about playing the next day ect.
Wouldn't you want your finals to be the best possible....ect?
Meh, idk.
Delaying wasn't an option.
It was a volunteer run volunteer sponsored event Do you not understand that?
It's not being funded by a million dollar corporation. People took time out of their lives to raise money and host this tournament, and Stephano took a shit on their chest.
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Australia1191 Posts
On January 31 2012 09:38 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:35 Otolia wrote:On January 31 2012 09:26 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 09:21 Otolia wrote:On January 31 2012 09:14 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 09:11 Enervate wrote: I for one appreciate this being posted as news on TL. I didn't even know about this tournament or this incident beforehand so I found this thread very informative, and I'm glad I found out what happened. Hooray. I just hope there are a lot of people like you who are not posting. I hope you also understands what it says about our community that this kind of subject is hosted on the same website as the excellent GSL/PL write-ups. Not to diminish the work of the newsers, but I think TL should focus more on its excellent writing staff and let the users post the news and moderating after. I really disagree with this. Do you believe that an ONOG tournament admin, or Stephano himself, or a French national making this thread would make for better news thread? Absolutely not, it'd be entirely biased and not include all relevant information. Considering the touchy nature of the subject, the multiple sources, and the responses, I think the OP is actually quite fair in its presentation of what happened. I wasn't really discussing the quality or the opinion of the OP. You are right in that it is fair. I think I didn't make myself clear. What I had in mind is that any news posted on TL has a certain impact on the community and that the most popular thread in term of posts are often the ones containing drama. It saddens me that the staff considers its job to make it public. I don't think it's beneficial to the image of our community if we can't deal with the most simple event without causing such a ruckus. TL is the flagship of our community, and as such has a tremendous influence. While I value neutrality, I wish you (and the rest of the staff) could be more affirmative of your position. It is a thin thread to walk on but it could help us - help us beyond what could simple declaration of annoyed viewers, or irritated players could do. I agree it is not good to have as a top thread. Neither was the Naniwa probe rush topic or the one about the IPL Philippines incident. However these are issues that we cannot just ignore and pretend they didn't happen, they actually have impact and importance in discussion and will influence future things. It is important that we are open in discussing them. I think TL just needs to present the issue fairly, not sweep it under the rug because it "looks bad."
Would have been posted by someone else anyway and been at the top of whatever forum it was posted in as people reply cause they truly love the drama. >.>
/nods at Hot_Bid
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On January 31 2012 09:29 gds wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:11 Otolia wrote: But that's not everything, when a professional tennis player decides to forfeit a match in a smaller tournament to preserve himself for a next one - bigger - like Tsonga often do for Rolland Garros, nobody is criticizing him for being insulting to the profession because every other person knows his body and mindset are his sole way to make money.
If you don't see the problem in your opinion right now, I will just left you and the other paragons of virtue who are keen to lash the hounds onto everyone not deemed worthy of their supposed superiority that professional sport is a job which means it is about making money. When the rewards isn't worth the care, nobody will do the job ... to say the least. Dont forget that the players have a job only because there are people willing to watch them play. So it's their own interest to treat the audience well. The entire onog prizepool has been payed by fans from their own pocket and if you think offending the most hard core sc2 base will have no consequences you're making a strategic mistake. Stephano has been elevated to god status by almost everybody and people are sucking his d*** 24/24 so nobody should be surprised about the way he react but it doesnt serve his own interests. See, from his twitters messages "he doesnt even understand why people are mad", which is probably the truth. Then make sure to explain him why it pains you to witness his behavior. I'm sure he could understand.
On January 31 2012 09:18 disciple wrote:On a side note, do you really believe Djokovic or Nadal thought about the money while playing each other?
The real problem to me comes from Stephanos reaction to the situation and reading a good share of the comments here its absolutely shocking for me to realize how low are the community standards for professional ethics in progaming I don't know Nadal, but Djokovic certainly fought for the money too. Serbia isn't Spain ...
I think I already told you what I thought about ethics, honor and such values in real life. It is all good to be a saint behind a computer but it's something else to be as honorable everyday. Don't get me wrong, I don't find the acts of Stephano any smarter and more appropriate than you, I am just more able to understand the other part of the story and as such I am not prone on swift judgements.
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On January 31 2012 09:37 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:34 mathsucks wrote:On January 31 2012 09:33 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:On January 31 2012 09:27 dcsoda wrote:On January 31 2012 09:20 Empire.Beastyqt wrote: Stephano forfeited tournament because it was THREE AM and he went to sleep he should say sorry for not being able to play 24/7 I guess. Was it okay to play 2 tournaments same time and forfeit one of them in finals? no. Was it fine to get penalty to be moved to 4th place? yes. Was it stupid for something like this to happen in first place? of course.
Leave it at that and stop causing more drama over nothing, he got his "punishment" and thats enough, making this into big "Community news" is a joke. Instead of making meaningless posts like this you could do something productive and make post about Kas winning the tournament or make ANY post about ANYTHING that is positive and that isnt pointless and that doesnt cause more drama over...nothing.
Making this story of the day or highlight of the day however you wanna call it is overdoing it, thread alone would be fine.
So ignoring problems with tournaments/players would be a good thing? How will there every be any improvement so that stuff like this is avoided if no one cares? Guy forfeited the FINALS why is that not newsworthy? Kas won but not by playing who he should have, how is that not to be mentioned? It's not like the OP was inflammatory so what in that post is causing more drama that wouldn't have happened anyway? Im not saying it should be ignored but making it story of the day is a joke, there are way too many other things that are wrong in SC2 community but hell if you want to start with forfeiting, why dont you start with teams forfeiting team leagues first and not individual players? Have any of those teams forfeited 45 minutes late to their finals match? I dont know, do you have source that says otherwise? thats not even the point -.- point is this is making simple forfeit that happened 50000 times already in SC2, but since its for 1500$ suddendly its terrible and first forfeit we ever saw..
No, I don't know of any other incident where a team/player forfeited that late in a live, community funded tournament...do you? You claim TL should report on those first...
if you want to start with forfeiting, why dont you start with teams forfeiting team leagues first and not individual players?
Why does the burden of proof fall to me? I was asking for info...
It's a crummy forfeit because of many reasons listed in this thread...I don't need to rehash them I hope.
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Braavos36362 Posts
On January 31 2012 09:39 Agathon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:19 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 09:15 Agathon wrote:On January 31 2012 08:33 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 08:21 purecarnagge wrote:On January 31 2012 06:41 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 06:30 eYeball wrote: Waiting for another thread regarding Tyler to show up any second now, TeamLiquid Esports. I am not sure whether people are actually serious about this, do you really think that there should be a thread every time someone forfeits in a tournament? Do you truly think that "Tyler forfeits round 1 of tournament" is worth a thread by itself? It is not a notable news worthy event. The situation with Stephano in the finals of a major invitational (3k prize pool) is something that never happened before, and about a player who is one of the best (if not the best) non-Koreans. Think about what would happen in either scenario: 1. We make a thread just about Tyler forfeiting People complain because it clearly isn't news worthy. Tyler dropping out in the first round doesn't really affect the tournament. Tyler isn't winning championships and didn't forfeit in the finals. People will say its just TL "hyping another one of their players who doesn't get results" etc. 2. We don't make a thread about Tyler forfeiting People react like they are in this thread Tyler forfeiting doesn't fit in this thread, and isn't even close to the level of notability / newsworthiness that this situation with Stephano is. It seems a bit unfair and far too easy to just point and yell bias all the time. I still don't understand whether people actually believe there should be a thread about Tyler's forfeit or whether they just like finding things to complain about. If it was any other player forfeiting (not Tyler) in the first round, we still wouldn't make a thread about it. On January 31 2012 06:45 Hot_Bid wrote: I don't understand how people can say its hypocrisy that there is no thread about Tyler when if it was anyone else who forfeits first round (literally anyone, doesn't have to be Liquid) we wouldn't make a thread about it.
To summarize: 1. Anyone forfeiting first round, no thread, not newsworthy 2. One of the best foreigners forfeiting invitational right before finals, yes thread
#1 doesn't matter if it's Liquid, there wouldn't be a thread about Destiny or Flo or Incontrol or anyone else forfeiting first round, this should be obvious to anyone. There is no special treatment for Tyler. While I understand ONOGs position of wanting to clarify the situation with Stephano especially after such a lengthy delay in there schedule. I just find it completely odd that nobody wants to mention the other withdrawal from the tournament. That being Liquid Tyler. While I would like to think that Tyler understands being a professional more than most in this industry and his career. I find it rather amusing that your so quick to stick up for him, post multiple times, then offer no reason to the community. The same community that he asks to support him, his site, his team, makes $$ off of through advertising and streaming. First, I never "defended" Tyler's decision to forfeit. I only defended our decision not to make a thread about it. Look through my posts, not once have I defended the actual action. It isn't mentioned here because it shouldn't be. That's the bottom line. This is a thread about something that is worth having a news topic. I've stated why. It is interesting that you read so much bias into my posts when I never once talked about whether I approved or disapproved of his decision to withdraw. Second, I don't know why Tyler forfeited, so I don't have a viewpoint on it. If it was because "he didn't feel like playing" then yes I think it's a bad decision. If it's because his friend is in the hospital, then I think it's justified. Do I believe he should state why? Yeah I do. Again, none of this is relevant to the thread at hand. If it was any other player, Incontrol, Destiny, Sase, anyone in this tournament else I'd still have the same opinion and act the same way. Of course, you wouldn't be accusing me of bias then so I wouldn't have to make this post. Lastly, the thread doesn't defend or state a viewpoint on who was right. It doesn't villainize Stephano or ONOG, and I think it does a good job of aggregating data and presenting responses and facts. It doesn't push a specific interpretation of who was right in this. Liquid has always been cleaner than the rest. They were always the guys that people gravitated towards because they did it better than the other guys, even when they weren't performing, and they always had fun. What does leaving in the 1st round have to do with being a professional. The bottom line is it isn't professional. Not offering an explanation to your supporters isn't either.
Does Tyler owe anyone an explanation? No, he doesn't. He doesn't have to do a damn thing. Your posts defending him and saying nothing when 70% of his supporters simply want to know "why?". These are the supporters paying his bills, his teams bills, and making this site one of the best on the internet.
Its just an opinion. It's not the most news worthy event but people would like to know. If people want to know then guess what...Thats NEWS!!!!!!!! OMG LIQUID TYLER IS NEWS ON TEAMLIQUID.NET. Again, I am not Tyler. I do not know why he forfeited. Do I want an explanation just like you? Yes, I would like one. What is your point? I didn't defend him, I just don't know why he forfeited. Contrary to you, I actually do think he owes fans and organizers some sort of explanation. I really feel like sometimes people just look really hard for bias when it's not there, I didn't defend Tyler's actions at all in this thread, I just defended our decision not to make a separate thread about him. We'd not make a thread if it was a player of Tyler's stature and caliber even if he was not on Liquid so I don't see the bias. "Second, I don't know why Tyler forfeited" and you know more what's in Stephano's head? I don't say that to blame you, honestly, but maybe;;;Stephano was not even tired. Maybe he just wanted to let Kas win, Kas who leaves in a poor country countrary of France, and who is universally loved (because he's...lovely) to get the money he needs, and that Stephano doesn't. How could you even know? (honestly i doubt it was the case, but, neither me, neither you really knows) Are you being serious right now? Stephano literally said he was tired, we can only take what he says at face value. He could be stopping an alien invasion instead of playing in the ONOG finals we have no idea. Great. And i think (i hope tbh) i'm not derailing the thread. I'm speaking about the reasons of it's own existence, and in the same time about the non existence of other threads like this one, exactly like you do. You're justifying the existence of this thread (and i respect that), i think i'm not out of topic.
The question remains. Why Tyler is ok (and could let his place to another player who might beat everybody, like Illusion barely did), and Stephano isn't ? Again, who said what Tyler did was ok??? I certainly didn't say it was OK. You are arguing against nobody. I only said it is not big enough to be it's own thread. Tyler is not Stephano, and first round is not finals. My question is : Why there is a thread about this Stephano's forfeit, and nothing about all the other forfeit or any bad behaviour that append every day, at least in EU online cups? By pros ! By very known and loved players ! There are plenty of reasons why. I stated so in my post. Scale, prizes, viewers, circumstances, there's a lot. You seem to be indicating this thread is a hit-job on Stephano, but it's just presenting facts. Plenty of people are defending Stephano. It's the same bashing for everybody or no bashing at all. Just few players; it doesn't make any sens to me.
We have a sentence for that in french, it's "Deux poids, deux mesures", "Two weights, two scales", "Double standards". It's not fair. It wasn't fair for me about Naniwa's drone rush drama, it's not fair now either.
I hope i expressed my point correctly, and that everybody will understand my point, even they disagree. It's not a double standard because if Tyler or Incontrol or Destiny did this we'd make a thread too. There is no conspiracy against Stephano, in fact if you actually read our news, all the writers love Stephano. It pains me that I even have to say that last sentence to justify just reporting on the facts of a situation, but yeah. Thanks for your answer, interesting, and i'm slowly getting your pov. One point i want to enlight, because it's my main point ; "Again, who said what Tyler did was ok??? I certainly didn't say it was OK. You are arguing against nobody. I only said it is not big enough to be it's own thread. Tyler is not Stephano, and first round is not finals." Who said that? The fact their is not thread about tyler on TL's main page. Just that. It's enough. No thread at all, or a thread for each/all of them. You know what i mean? Maybe some underdogs wanted to show their talents, and they would love to get the Stephano's or Tyler's place. Two places lots for 2 borning talents. Why just one guy? I would suggest a change of main topic : "Bad behaviour during ONOG". That would be fair to me. Even everybody was blaming mostly Stephano in posts. Thread is about Stephano because the fact is Stephano's actions impacted the tournament more. It's the finals, not the first round. Second, he's a more high profile player than Tyler. Tyler fans might disagree but let's be honest, Stephano wins tournaments, beats Koreans, and is one of the best foreigners. Tyler, while he shows potential and has a huge influence on Liquid simply has not had as notable or successful a career as Stephano.
"Bad behavior during ONOG" isn't a fair title either because Stephano's behavior wasn't necessarily bad. That headline implies ONOG did nothing wrong, which isn't the case. I made a post here indicating that both Stephano and ONOG are partially to blame for this. Nobody is 100% right. Headlines are tricky business and should be as neutral as possible.
As for lumping Tyler's forfeit in there, I do not think Tyler's situation is even worth mentioning in this thread. Again, if it was any other player (non-Liquid), I still wouldn't think it's worth mentioning. If it was Tyler in the finals and Stephano in the first round I'd still make the thread only about the finalist, whoever it was.
I understand your frustration because it seems to you that the player you support (Stephano) is getting shit on in the thread, but it is not the result of biased or inaccurate reporting by TL but rather by the fans and the community who imo have a legitimate point, just as the Stephano supporters have a legitimate point as well about ONOG organization and delays.
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On January 31 2012 09:43 garbodor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:41 NekoFlandre wrote: IDK If this was a smart choice by ONOG.
To be honest, he informed them that there was another tournie he was in. They yes delayed the match for a long while. Aside that, they could have let Kas know and had a discussion about playing the next day ect.
Wouldn't you want your finals to be the best possible....ect?
Meh, idk. Delaying wasn't an option. It was a volunteer run volunteer sponsored event Do you not understand that? It's not being funded by a million dollar corporation. People took time out of their lives to raise money and host this tournament, and Stephano took a shit on their chest.
Saying Stephano took a shit on their chest is really brutal in my opinion. The tournament was behind schedule, then Stephano delayed it (even tho it was a good 45 minutes after the SCAN tourney was over) even more. But for him to then say "damn guys it's super freaking late I'm not going to give the performance you want from me", isn't him "shitting on their chests". As far as I'm concerned he did it in a respectful kind way, and took the hit for it.
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hmm for 600 dollar more i would have played that game even if it woulnt be good
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On January 31 2012 09:20 Empire.Beastyqt wrote: Stephano forfeited tournament because it was THREE AM and he went to sleep he should say sorry for not being able to play 24/7 I guess. Was it okay to play 2 tournaments same time and forfeit one of them in finals? no. Was it fine to get penalty to be moved to 4th place? yes. Was it stupid for something like this to happen in first place? of course.
Leave it at that and stop causing more drama over nothing, he got his "punishment" and thats enough, making this into big "Community news" is a joke. Instead of making meaningless posts like this you could do something productive and make post about Kas winning the tournament or make ANY post about ANYTHING that is positive and that isnt pointless and that doesnt cause more drama over...nothing.
Making this story of the day or highlight of the day however you wanna call it is overdoing it, thread alone would be fine.
Exactly why wouldn't this be a community news? Should this event fullfill the criteria? First of all ONOG is an event for the community, and by the community. Taking into consideration the massive involvement from the community - then it is by my standards ok to be a community headline.
Should they have made a post about Kas winning? Yes, maybe. But when we have issues like this at hand, it will always conquerer the positive side of the story - just like in the media. And shouldn't this be debated by the community? It could prevent this from happening in the future. It will create awareness amongst tournament organizers.
All the responses regarding Taylor makes me giggle. This is a different thread addressing a different issue, end of story. His forfeit is not of the same proportions as this one.
Anyhow. Based on Stephanos actions I believe he got the right punishment. Most have already been covered
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Cases keep popping up where a regulatory body is needed. I'm confident that one is in the works, so I hope it happens soon.
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On January 31 2012 09:38 dsousa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:36 mathsucks wrote:On January 31 2012 09:34 dsousa wrote:On January 31 2012 09:31 mathsucks wrote:On January 31 2012 09:27 dsousa wrote:On January 31 2012 09:24 lee365 wrote: Meh If Korean players can stay up till early in the morning to play all their games in foreign tournaments than Stephano should be able to as well. because if he doesn't.... IT WILL BE TOP NEWS ON TL! This link in the top left hand side, will probably be there for 3 days. Its that big a deal! Its up there with MLG dates, MLG player lists, guy joining new teams..... Stephano's tired and can't play..... alert the media! Release the hounds! I jumped on my computer when the finals were scheduled to start and was disappointed. I heard nothing of the incident at the time. I'm glad I found some news about a "professional" player stiffing a community run tournament because of his personal, and avoidable, scheduling conflicts. Well you should have check the LR report thread, there are 50 pages in there about it. Here's a link...its like this post, only yesterday http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=302498Obviously, you are the target market for this type of content... so perhaps it should be top news. So...whenever something gets mentioned in a 200 page, fast moving, LR thread...we should assume everyone knows about it when it's this substantial? It wasn't MENTIONED.. it was just like this thread... pages and pages about Stephano... you couldn't have missed it, if you cared to look. We get it, you're butthurt that this was spotlighted. But actually I had no idea that this had happened and I certainly wouldn't go through a LR thread just to check if it happened something. So yeah, I appreciate that TL posted this because I now know what happened, and this news raises questions on both a player's professionalism and what's expected of him as well as how to handle bad scheduling in tournaments and the way to mitigate those errors. Contrary to what you think, the world doesn't revolve around Stephano, and that includes this article.
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On January 31 2012 09:39 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:34 dsousa wrote:On January 31 2012 09:31 mathsucks wrote:On January 31 2012 09:27 dsousa wrote:On January 31 2012 09:24 lee365 wrote: Meh If Korean players can stay up till early in the morning to play all their games in foreign tournaments than Stephano should be able to as well. because if he doesn't.... IT WILL BE TOP NEWS ON TL! This link in the top left hand side, will probably be there for 3 days. Its that big a deal! Its up there with MLG dates, MLG player lists, guy joining new teams..... Stephano's tired and can't play..... alert the media! Release the hounds! I jumped on my computer when the finals were scheduled to start and was disappointed. I heard nothing of the incident at the time. I'm glad I found some news about a "professional" player stiffing a community run tournament because of his personal, and avoidable, scheduling conflicts. Well you should have checked the LR report thread, there are 50 pages in there about it. Here's a link...its like this post, only yesterday and not created by TL admins and placed prominently on the homepage. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=302498Obviously, you are the target market for this type of content... so perhaps it should be top news. who wants to go through a hundred some odd number of pages to figure out what happened. especially since a lot of tl.net posters spout random rubbish based on signals in space rather than actual facts.
Precisely. I'm not going to randomly page through a thread filled with "OMG FORCEFIELDS!" and other randoms in the LR threads looking for news...I'm going to go to the News section.
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Edit: never mind, nothing to see here, move along..
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We should also thank you Hot_Bid for taking the time to explain his positions. Sometimes the community can feel a little bit far away for its moderator ...
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On January 31 2012 09:38 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:35 Otolia wrote:On January 31 2012 09:26 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 09:21 Otolia wrote:On January 31 2012 09:14 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 09:11 Enervate wrote: I for one appreciate this being posted as news on TL. I didn't even know about this tournament or this incident beforehand so I found this thread very informative, and I'm glad I found out what happened. Hooray. I just hope there are a lot of people like you who are not posting. I hope you also understands what it says about our community that this kind of subject is hosted on the same website as the excellent GSL/PL write-ups. Not to diminish the work of the newsers, but I think TL should focus more on its excellent writing staff and let the users post the news and moderating after. I really disagree with this. Do you believe that an ONOG tournament admin, or Stephano himself, or a French national making this thread would make for better news thread? Absolutely not, it'd be entirely biased and not include all relevant information. Considering the touchy nature of the subject, the multiple sources, and the responses, I think the OP is actually quite fair in its presentation of what happened. I wasn't really discussing the quality or the opinion of the OP. You are right in that it is fair. I think I didn't make myself clear. What I had in mind is that any news posted on TL has a certain impact on the community and that the most popular thread in term of posts are often the ones containing drama. It saddens me that the staff considers its job to make it public. I don't think it's beneficial to the image of our community if we can't deal with the most simple event without causing such a ruckus. TL is the flagship of our community, and as such has a tremendous influence. While I value neutrality, I wish you (and the rest of the staff) could be more affirmative of your position. It is a thin thread to walk on but it could help us - help us beyond what could simple declaration of annoyed viewers, or irritated players could do. I agree it is not good to have as a top thread. Neither was the Naniwa probe rush topic or the one about the IPL Philippines incident. However these are issues that we cannot just ignore and pretend they didn't happen, they actually have impact and importance in discussion and will influence future things. It is important that we are open in discussing them. I think TL just needs to present the issue fairly, not sweep it under the rug because it "looks bad."
That sounds fair enough in theory, but you know perfectly well what this thread will devolve into.
I understand the desire to indulge in the fantasy of an aspiring jouralist from time to time, but the fact that you neglect to mention the Tyler controversy at all is suspicous at best. Catz had to risk losing to Tyler in groups, while Tyler walked out on everyone else in the group giving them free wins.
Can't help but think that you're trying to exploit this drama for increased traffic while protecting your own player from the same scrutiny.
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