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GregMandel
France822 Posts
( Except for Demu in the non korean roster <3 ) | ||
iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On January 28 2013 05:23 NeoIllusions wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=390982 "Time for some hard words: LoL / DotA2 players are not as refined as SC2 players[...]" Now I understand where you're coming from, you could very well be trying to make a rally speech for the SC2 community but your blanket statement of putting LoL and Dota2 players beneath SC2 players is what irked me. Combine that with the fact that EG's SC2 players are notorious for making statements putting down LoL in particular as well as on podcasts, EG's PR in our community (not just TL LoL but LoL in general) is not the best atm. this kind of stuff annoys me. I didn't put them "beneath Sc2" players I spoke very specifically about marketing and how LoL/Dota2 players (to a lesser extent) have a ways to go and I used the model of the SC2/SC player as a bench mark for success. I don't care if that irks you.. but don't generalize to me saying they are worse people in general or something. I absolutely hate throwing names out and using private conversations as evidence BUT I guess I can just say that I don't formulate this opinion on my own. It isn't some PR stunt I invented to create an idea or something.. I actually speak to the heads of NASL, MLG, IEM, DH etc etc.. most are close personal friends and the conversations we have had on this subject are unanimous.. literally. Again, I didn't say they had a ways to go as some kind of diss.. people need to grow thicker skin (yeah, coming from me). I was saying SC2 players have shown to be pretty damn good in this regard and have done well for themselves and can lead by example. It was a "rally call" for SC2 players to be more welcoming to other gaming genres and to try and show them good conduct when it comes to marketing. As far as the comments on ITG.. that was Wheat. He was arguing that SC2 was more complex and hence "breaking bad" whereas LoL is more casual and easy hence "American Idol" If that pisses you off whatever. If you somehow think LoL is less casual than SC2 or more complex I don't really know what to tell you. If the comparison irks you I guess I would ask you don't be so sensitive. Being more casual and easily accessible has lead LoL to be the most played, successful and watched game on the planet.. much like American Idol is one of if not THE most watched show.. why be upset about that? | ||
zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Chexx
Korea (South)11232 Posts
I think that the american idol/ breaking bad analogy was recieved like SC is Daft Punk and LoL ist justin bieber. | ||
ItsFunToLose
United States776 Posts
On January 28 2013 17:23 iNcontroL wrote: this kind of stuff annoys me. I didn't put them "beneath Sc2" players I spoke very specifically about marketing and how LoL/Dota2 players (to a lesser extent) have a ways to go and I used the model of the SC2/SC player as a bench mark for success. I don't care if that irks you.. but don't generalize to me saying they are worse people in general or something. I absolutely hate throwing names out and using private conversations as evidence BUT I guess I can just say that I don't formulate this opinion on my own. It isn't some PR stunt I invented to create an idea or something.. I actually speak to the heads of NASL, MLG, IEM, DH etc etc.. most are close personal friends and the conversations we have had on this subject are unanimous.. literally. Again, I didn't say they had a ways to go as some kind of diss.. people need to grow thicker skin (yeah, coming from me). I was saying SC2 players have shown to be pretty damn good in this regard and have done well for themselves and can lead by example. It was a "rally call" for SC2 players to be more welcoming to other gaming genres and to try and show them good conduct when it comes to marketing. As far as the comments on ITG.. that was Wheat. He was arguing that SC2 was more complex and hence "breaking bad" whereas LoL is more casual and easy hence "American Idol" If that pisses you off whatever. If you somehow think LoL is less casual than SC2 or more complex I don't really know what to tell you. If the comparison irks you I guess I would ask you don't be so sensitive. Being more casual and easily accessible has lead LoL to be the most played, successful and watched game on the planet.. much like American Idol is one of if not THE most watched show.. why be upset about that? Denial. Appeal to authority. Literally. Reiteration. "If my insult insulted you, dont be insulted." kk No one is arguing that it can't be objectively demonstrated that sc2 takes more mechanical skill than league of legends, just don't pretend your community is more mature than any other roving band of retards. From over here, your rally call sure sounded a lot like a call to arms and anything but welcoming. | ||
Redox
Germany24793 Posts
On January 28 2013 17:23 iNcontroL wrote: this kind of stuff annoys me. I didn't put them "beneath Sc2" players I spoke very specifically about marketing and how LoL/Dota2 players (to a lesser extent) have a ways to go and I used the model of the SC2/SC player as a bench mark for success. I don't care if that irks you.. but don't generalize to me saying they are worse people in general or something. I absolutely hate throwing names out and using private conversations as evidence BUT I guess I can just say that I don't formulate this opinion on my own. It isn't some PR stunt I invented to create an idea or something.. I actually speak to the heads of NASL, MLG, IEM, DH etc etc.. most are close personal friends and the conversations we have had on this subject are unanimous.. literally. Again, I didn't say they had a ways to go as some kind of diss.. people need to grow thicker skin (yeah, coming from me). I was saying SC2 players have shown to be pretty damn good in this regard and have done well for themselves and can lead by example. It was a "rally call" for SC2 players to be more welcoming to other gaming genres and to try and show them good conduct when it comes to marketing. As far as the comments on ITG.. that was Wheat. He was arguing that SC2 was more complex and hence "breaking bad" whereas LoL is more casual and easy hence "American Idol" If that pisses you off whatever. If you somehow think LoL is less casual than SC2 or more complex I don't really know what to tell you. If the comparison irks you I guess I would ask you don't be so sensitive. Being more casual and easily accessible has lead LoL to be the most played, successful and watched game on the planet.. much like American Idol is one of if not THE most watched show.. why be upset about that? Wow, I didnt know that your posts about LoL are THAT terrible. But thanks for demonstrating this to us, I guess we all know now what Neo meant. And for the record, LoL is indeed more complex than sc2. It has more units, more spells etc - so it has more variables that go into one game. That doesnt mean it is harder or whatever, but it does make it more complex by definition. Not sure what there is to argue. | ||
OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
On January 28 2013 18:06 Chexx wrote: hmm in Germany we have similiar shows like American Idol but they have a nuance that it is a dumb show for dumb people. I think that the american idol/ breaking bad analogy was recieved like SC is Daft Punk and LoL ist justin bieber. Daft Punk is very entry-level in terms of electronic music so I don't think that analogy is perfect | ||
Broetchenholer
Germany1822 Posts
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
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Redox
Germany24793 Posts
On January 28 2013 20:03 Broetchenholer wrote: Why do you feel bad about that post? I mean, all he says is, that he feels like moba-players are less organized then sc2-players. Ok. That coming from a highly unsuccesful SC2-pro who still manages to live by his hobby should not be taken as an insult but as motivation for lol players who are struggling. If you are not good enough, create a high profile, be professionnal about it and all will be fine in the end. We all know that the majority of lol-streams are really bad, so he has a point. For one because I dont feel like that at all. I have been a sc2 fan for a long time, but the player-fan interaction was never on the same level as it is now with LoL. Most sc2 streamers just play the game, thats all the do in terms of interacton. Why should that be an example to anyone? | ||
dnosrc
Germany454 Posts
On January 28 2013 19:28 Redox wrote: Wow, I didnt know that your posts about LoL are THAT terrible. But thanks for demonstrating this to us, I guess we all know now what Neo meant. And for the record, LoL is indeed more complex than sc2. It has more units, more spells etc - so it has more variables that go into one game. That doesnt mean it is harder or whatever, but it does make it more complex by definition. Not sure what there is to argue. Tbh. the main difference between sc2 and lol/dota is team vs individual sport. It just depends on personal preference. Team games tend to have more market share though(soccer,football in real life sports, cs dota lol in esports). | ||
Dusty
United States3359 Posts
On January 28 2013 20:03 Broetchenholer wrote: Why do you feel bad about that post? I mean, all he says is, that he feels like moba-players are less organized then sc2-players. Ok. That coming from a highly unsuccesful SC2-pro who still manages to live by his hobby should not be taken as an insult but as motivation for lol players who are struggling. If you are not good enough, create a high profile, be professionnal about it and all will be fine in the end. We all know that the majority of lol-streams are really bad, so he has a point. since always, pro players were regularly telling others to kill themselves and to have their fans ddos people they dislike and that they want to shove tire irons up developers asses and- oh wait league of legends pro players and figures dont do that | ||
EquilasH
Denmark2116 Posts
On January 28 2013 20:09 Dusty wrote: I always thought that Wheat meant to compare BB and AI in terms of popularity and not quality, but people took it as him comparing the two quality-wise? He wouldn't be comparing a popularity contest show to a brilliant TV gem in that case. It's quite obvious he meant to say that SC2 is better despite being less popular. Also wtf just happened? A German called football soccer?????? | ||
dnosrc
Germany454 Posts
On January 28 2013 20:25 EquilasH wrote: Also wtf just happened? A German called football soccer?????? im just very kind to my 'merican friends. i promise to refrain from such sorcery, my european brother! | ||
WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
As Snoopeh is one of the few LOL player that actually cares a lot about the scene image and its growth (while most actually just wants to play the game and give their best) he is the perfect dude to represent EG entry in lol. | ||
BlueSpace
Germany2182 Posts
On January 28 2013 17:23 iNcontroL wrote: this kind of stuff annoys me. I didn't put them "beneath Sc2" players I spoke very specifically about marketing and how LoL/Dota2 players (to a lesser extent) have a ways to go and I used the model of the SC2/SC player as a bench mark for success. I don't care if that irks you.. but don't generalize to me saying they are worse people in general or something. I absolutely hate throwing names out and using private conversations as evidence BUT I guess I can just say that I don't formulate this opinion on my own. It isn't some PR stunt I invented to create an idea or something.. I actually speak to the heads of NASL, MLG, IEM, DH etc etc.. most are close personal friends and the conversations we have had on this subject are unanimous.. literally. Again, I didn't say they had a ways to go as some kind of diss.. people need to grow thicker skin (yeah, coming from me). I was saying SC2 players have shown to be pretty damn good in this regard and have done well for themselves and can lead by example. It was a "rally call" for SC2 players to be more welcoming to other gaming genres and to try and show them good conduct when it comes to marketing. As far as the comments on ITG.. that was Wheat. He was arguing that SC2 was more complex and hence "breaking bad" whereas LoL is more casual and easy hence "American Idol" If that pisses you off whatever. If you somehow think LoL is less casual than SC2 or more complex I don't really know what to tell you. If the comparison irks you I guess I would ask you don't be so sensitive. Being more casual and easily accessible has lead LoL to be the most played, successful and watched game on the planet.. much like American Idol is one of if not THE most watched show.. why be upset about that? I'm sorry, but your pulling this completely out of context. The message cannot be separated from the messenger. Yes, you can argue that this is not meant in an insulting way, but given your previous track record regarding lol, it is hard not to detect a fair amount of derision in your statement. Also the entire lol is so casual and mechanically easy discussion irks me a lot. 4v4 mono battles in SC2 are extremely casual. The entire single player mode, that attracts most of the players in the first place to the game is extremely casual. So the discussion should not be about the casual part of the game, but what pro players do and in this regard SC2 and Lol/Dota are very different. There is a team aspect to these games, which is completely missing from SC2 and it's like comparing apple and oranges. Yes controlling your unit/units in SC2 is way harder than in Lol and the game is mechanically much more demanding, but what does that have to do with complexity? The builds in lol are team compositions and subsequent itemization on every individual champion. With the amount of champions, items and on top of that runes and masteries, the game is extremely complex. It is this kind of blanket attitude towards lol which is the problem. The game is somehow easy, the players are unrefined and it's just not as good, bla, bla, bla.... So maybe with EG's pickup you'll have the chance to actually learn a bit more about the game and maybe you will change your attitude. | ||
LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
You people dont need to get so defensive about this just because one former Sc2 player comes in here and tells you his opinion. | ||
Dan HH
Romania8854 Posts
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Ota Solgryn
Denmark2011 Posts
On January 28 2013 21:36 BlueSpace wrote: I'm sorry, but your pulling this completely out of context. The message cannot be separated from the messenger. Yes, you can argue that this is not meant in an insulting way, but given your previous track record regarding lol, it is hard not to detect a fair amount of derision in your statement. Also the entire lol is so casual and mechanically easy discussion irks me a lot. 4v4 mono battles in SC2 are extremely casual. The entire single player mode, that attracts most of the players in the first place to the game is extremely casual. So the discussion should not be about the casual part of the game, but what pro players do and in this regard SC2 and Lol/Dota are very different. There is a team aspect to these games, which is completely missing from SC2 and it's like comparing apple and oranges. Yes controlling your unit/units in SC2 is way harder than in Lol and the game is mechanically much more demanding, but what does that have to do with complexity? The builds in lol are team compositions and subsequent itemization on every individual champion. With the amount of champions, items and on top of that runes and masteries, the game is extremely complex. It is this kind of blanket attitude towards lol which is the problem. The game is somehow easy, the players are unrefined and it's just not as good, bla, bla, bla.... So maybe with EG's pickup you'll have the chance to actually learn a bit more about the game and maybe you will change your attitude. Completely agree with your post. Such a bad post by Incontrol. Pulling the "complexity" and "casual game" card just screams ignorance. Especially from a player who once played BW and now plays SC2 as his proffesion. Oh, the irony. Also comparing a team game vs a solo game. Lets try the same with Quake and CS. CS is a bad, boring game 1v1, but is an amazing, competitive, complex and succesful game 5v5. Quake is a casual game team vs team but is an amazing competive, complex and succesful game 1v1. Regarding EG picking up ex-CLG.EU I think is really really great for EG. These 5 guys from the start of competitive LoL have had such a good mentallity and attitude. And they seem to have fun at the same time. | ||
BlueSpace
Germany2182 Posts
On January 28 2013 21:51 LaNague wrote: Well, obviously LoL is complex enough for EG to feel the need to buy an expensive high-tier team instead of training their own team in this "easy mode casual" game. You people dont need to get so defensive about this just because one former Sc2 player comes in here and tells you his opinion. Lol has a huge stigmata in terms of being a stupid casual game, that cannot be taken serious as an esport. So I think it does no harm to defend it a little. | ||
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