Statistics - MC with 143.000 Euro prizemoney! - Page 6
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harhar!
Germany190 Posts
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Dagobert
Netherlands1858 Posts
1) Include an option to define time periods for frequencies, i.e. "I want race balance stats for games played during the past 3 months" (I gather this would probably not work for the players' skill ratings due to the algorithm used?) 2) Mark 'pro replays', preferably with server tags (or player tags: KR/US/EU etc) I'll have a closer look later. | ||
ArhK
France287 Posts
On August 10 2011 17:54 Khaldor wrote: Because we have the bigger database and the better system. And I'd appreciate it if you'd wait for my explanations (I clearly stated I'll answer to the questions in this thread later, didnt I?) instead of just stating your opinion as if it was a fact. Did you even take the time to read through what the Glicko System we use actually is and does? I don't really think so. I also scratched on the surface of the problem with the foreigners in several posts already. So think about what I said and figure it out on your own or simply wait for me to elaborate on it later on. I won't be able to answer ALL the questions as my flight to Australia leaves pretty soon but I'll do my best to answer the most urgent ones. Reading some of the post in here I begin to think some people assume we used some random bullshit system to create those rankings... EDIT: my post was meant as an answer to JJH777. I totally agree with the korea/europe problem but thats not the fault of the ranking as I will explain later. Just be patient need to record some videos first and then I'll edit the OP You are right, I didn't got to read all about the Glicko thingy and other techy stuff, I am just stating my opinion as an end user of your website. In a company when a end user has a problem or doesn't understand the way something has been done by the IT department, "RTFM you arrogant whinner, our system is freaking perfect !" is rarely the good way of dealing with it. I thought it would be important for you to get a feedback from a random end user who follow the scene since the beta. If we need to read X and Y concepts, deals with maths and everything BEFORE stating what immediately comes to mind when discovering your pro ranking, I think there is a problem. Nevertheless I am looking forward to your clarification post, and more importantly the huge nerf on the current ranking of the unfortunate jokes that are EU players regarding KR ones atm. Edit : I saw your edit explaining who you were answering to after having wrote this post ^^. Lets patiently wait then . | ||
Hermasaurus
54 Posts
On August 10 2011 07:30 Khaldor wrote: Of course the rating will be more accurat the more games of him we'll see in future, but in general you have to make sure that you find a middleground when considering players that have 1.000 games and players that have only 50. I think we've done a pretty good job and we actually talked to the guy who invented the Glicko Rating System in order to make some adjustments to make it as exact as possible. We had several simulations as well and the current system works quite well. Puma for example is rated a lot farther down the list even though he won NASL. StarCraft II is a very young game and the more matches there'll be played the better the list will be but right now DRG deserves to be on #1. After the MLG the ranked 3rd but due to his recent achievements at the GSL again pretty good players he was able to gain additional ranking points. The ranking is updated every day so players will gain and lose points according to their recent performance. Another thing you have to keep in mind is that a lot of koreans don't play agains european and american players that much. Therefore it's sometimes hard to compare players to each other as its an international ranking. But with more and more koreans attending foreign events and players like Naniwa and Thorzain going to korea those comparisons are a lot easier to make and will greatly benefit the ranking as well. Right now there is no better ranking due to my knowledge and even though DRG might sound surprising at first a look into his match history shows why he deserves to be there, at least for now You claim that DRG is most deserving of the leading position, which you determined by using the "Glicko System", which in your words is the most accurate. You suggest that DRG's recent achievements at the GSL have regained his position as number 1. Where as your most recent results for Nestea are the GSL July where he had went 16-0. This is where I get really confused because I see it as a DRG was ranked 3rd until he achieved 2 wins which someone moved him up 2 spots into the leading role, where as Nestea 16-0'd his previous bracket and he still somehow is all the way at number 6. How would it be possible for him to move up? How many more matches would he have to win if 16 direct wins doesn't bolster him ahead of players such as MMA or MVP. ALL of he which he has a better total win percentage in overall wins and individual match ups, and a more consistent recent win history than anyone. (Nestea was just my example. Not an example based off of an emotional attachment, just an easy example most befitting for the situation. I'm hoping for a release of a more detailed explanation of how the system works and the adjustments that were implemented to better suit the sport. I am not aware of it determines the points received by the opponents skill level, or recent results have an existent priority. I myself don't agree that these systems should be interpreted as fact. Rather an interesting way of interpreting data. I see that a lot of work has gone into not only the system but the website as a whole. Awesome work. | ||
paradox_
Canada270 Posts
To my understanding the rankings will sort itself out as more games are played as the uncertainty for each player in question gets lower. Glicko is essentially the same as ELO while taking into consideration the certainty of the rating. If you think about it, this will result in far more accurate rankings long term. As for the site, I think it looks fantastic. Far better than others out there, although a small section or referece explaining Glicko and differences with ELO for those too lazy to do it themselves will probably stop a lot of uninformed questions. Could also include a few bullet points such as if tournaments are weighted or not based on the tournament winnings etc. Once again, great site. | ||
FiLmBoT
United States107 Posts
What I mean by this is Naniwa is first foreigner on the chart and sheth is the first america. | ||
ArhK
France287 Posts
On August 10 2011 18:30 FiLmBoT wrote: Awesome site to see how everyone ranks up. Also all I can say is Naniwa fighting for the foreigners and Sheth fighting for america! What I mean by this is Naniwa is first foreigner on the chart and sheth is the first america. No, Idra is the first american actually. | ||
vdale
Germany1173 Posts
On August 10 2011 17:50 JJH777 wrote: You say it's the most accurate but that simply isn't true. DRG is not the best player in the world. There isn't even a strong argument for him being so. He lost the MLG he was expected to stomp. There are no foreigners in the top 10 players in the world. How can you actually call this more accurate than the TLPD rankings? most accurate doesn't mean that it's totally accurate. | ||
Omegastorm
102 Posts
Dongraegu has 66% win rate against terrans. ( 19 wins 10 losses ) Nestea has 60% win rate against terrans. ( 43 wins 29 losses ) July has 58% win rate against terrans (39 wins 28 losses ) Losira has 48% win rate against terrans. ( 21 wins 23 losses ) Moon has the best ZvT in the world!! Moon currently has lost 0 'match' against a terran within the last 8+ months. ( He only lose some 'maps') He is currently focusing on wc3 because he is trying to qualify for wcg 2011 kr qualifiers. So don't give shit on him when he underperforms in the gstl ( which he will likely do and lose a terran) | ||
Khaldor
Germany861 Posts
I'll answer to some of the questions now in the OP, please bare with me as I have only 2 hours left before I have to leave for my flight and I can't go into all the details. I'll make sure we'll add a section to the website over time explaining certain points in more details. Didnt mean to offend anybody btw. Some comments simply frustrate me as we put so much time and effort in this thing, don't take it personal | ||
Omegastorm
102 Posts
On August 10 2011 19:11 Khaldor wrote: One year after StarCraft II was released there won't be a totally accurate system. You also have to keep in mind, that this is an international system which makes it even harder as it's not that easy to compare the skill levels of Koreans, Europeans and NA players. They don't face each other that often but as this has been getting a lot better lately the ranking will be able to improve as well of course. I'll answer to some of the questions now in the OP, please bare with me as I have only 2 hours left before I have to leave for my flight and I can't go into all the details. I'll make sure we'll add a section to the website over time explaining certain points in more details. Didnt mean to offend anybody btw. Some comments simply frustrate me as we put so much time and effort in this thing, don't take it personal Dude you guys made Moon the ZvT in the entire world.. I'm very happy!!! http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt49/weisin87/smeagol.jpg | ||
Valckrie
United Kingdom533 Posts
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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
I mean, of course there will be errors based on the fact that, as you say, SC2 is only a year old, but if a vast (VAST) majority of the rankings place players far higher/lower than most everyone would put them, it seems that as complex as the algorithm is, it's not working. | ||
Slyce
United Kingdom173 Posts
Personally I would prefer the prize money to be in USD$ as this is kind of the currency of the world. I would also like to be able to sort the prize money by "All of time" too. Apart from those minor things this is fantastic, please don't take this is a bashing I like the site. | ||
Khaldor
Germany861 Posts
You shouldn't forget that DRG is a really really extreme example. Even Puma never ranked this high after winning alot of games because his opponents weren't that high in the ranking themselves. One has to find a middleground between players like that and for example GoOdy with more than 1.000 matches. Right now DRG is #1 and truth be told rightly so, he has to prove it though and if he won't be able to do that he will drop in the ranking very very fast. Edit@slyce: don't worry, I don't Thanks for your post! | ||
Omegastorm
102 Posts
On August 10 2011 19:33 Khaldor wrote: Why? Only because you expect another player to be on #1? Most websites use ELO and ELO is simply not adequate. It's used because it is very simple but it neglects a lot of variables. There is no perfect system and of course ours will have to be adjusted over time as well. But right now it's pretty damn good even though some of you might have liked another player on #1 (which is totally understandable). You shouldn't forget that DRG is a really really extreme example. Even Puma never ranked this high after winning alot of games because his opponents weren't that high in the ranking themselves. One has to find a middleground between players like that and for example GoOdy with more than 1.000 matches. Right now DRG is #1 and truth be told rightly so, he has to prove it though and if he won't be able to do that he will drop in the ranking very very fast. Edit@slyce: don't worry, I don't Thanks for your post! If i wasn't clear with my last post. Thank you very much for the website. I appreciate it very much! | ||
Khaldor
Germany861 Posts
As I already mentioned I expect us to tweak small stuff in the future as well, some problems will only occur over the course of several weeks or months. But right now I'm very confident that this ranking is pretty damn good ^^ just trying to convince you :D | ||
t1mid
United States143 Posts
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Presidenten
Sweden777 Posts
Also, this: On August 10 2011 17:56 Dagobert wrote: 1) Include an option to define time periods for frequencies, i.e. "I want race balance stats for games played during the past 3 months" (I gather this would probably not work for the players' skill ratings due to the algorithm used?) | ||
AxionSteel
United States7754 Posts
On August 10 2011 19:40 Khaldor wrote: Hm reading through my last posts I think they are little bit too aggressive... Sorry guys, wasn't my intention attacking someone. I get a little bit carried away sometimes. I really appreciate the feedback and also the input that's more critical. Would love you to be more open to the idea behind the ranking though As I already mentioned I expect us to tweak small stuff in the future as well, some problems will only occur over the course of several weeks or months. But right now I'm very confident that this ranking is pretty damn good ^^ just trying to convince you :D You'll have problems convincing people that DRG is the best player in the world, because he quite simply is not. No ranking system is perfect though, and this one seems pretty good overall. Love the site, I personally love my stats good work! Any chance to change the prize money winnings to USD? or at least give us an option to do so. | ||
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