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On August 10 2011 19:26 Zdrastochye wrote: You spent a good amount of time on the algorithm, which I can appreciate for the work involved, but if you don't agree with the system, how is it anything but flawed?
I mean, of course there will be errors based on the fact that, as you say, SC2 is only a year old, but if a vast (VAST) majority of the rankings place players far higher/lower than most everyone would put them, it seems that as complex as the algorithm is, it's not working.
Or people's opinions are biased due to a lack of seeing the big picture. If you read LR threads you'll see how people's opinions sway hugely based on current form. One day DRG is considered on of the absolute best players in the world and a few week later he's a decent overhyped zerg. I've more respect for statistical ranking system over "most peoples opinions." That doesn't mean it doesn't have room for improvement.
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The funny thing is that the best zerg map isn't even 50%
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Best Zerg Player: DongRaeGu Damn, Artosis would have something to say about that.
8. Naniwa Didn't, uh... CheckPrime just demolish Naniwa?
13. Kas, 14. Stephano, 15. Nerchio Wwwhhhhaaa? Yet HuK is 20th?!
Aside from the rankings, the site looks great!
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On August 10 2011 21:34 kckkryptonite wrote: Best Zerg Player: DongRaeGu Damn, Artosis would have something to say about that.
8. Naniwa Didn't, uh... CheckPrime just demolish Naniwa?
13. Kas, 14. Stephano, 15. Nerchio Wwwhhhhaaa? Yet HuK is 20th?!
Aside from the rankings, the site looks great!
How about spoilering results that are only a couple of hours old?
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Germany442 Posts
Awesome database!
A few suggestions/things that I noticed: - More filter options for the rankings (race, koreans/foreigners) - In HasuObs profile it says that his best and worst map vs zerg ist metalopolis with 47% winrate!? - You have DRG vs sC 3-2 two times in your db - Is there are a way to "downgrade" the points of the foreigners? Recent results showed more than ever before that the koreans are miles ahead.
The ranking system looks far superior to anything I have seen so far! (koreans/foreigners-issue & DRG put aside)
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+ Show Spoiler + I just think you need to do a korean and a foreigner ranking. Because no foreigner is anywhere close to the korean level. It is really weird that anyone else than huk is above any korean
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It seems as though the determination of "best" map is incorrect, as it selected 4-1 and 8-4 over 3-0. Perhaps it's doing a raw +/-, but especially with the way it's presented, win % would be the superior choice.
Is the Glicko-based system running on games or matches? I see that the player win percentages are based on games, and would strongly argue that a player's match record being 5-0 means he's won 100%, even if his set record is 10-3 (77%).
What is the rating period for the Glicko-based calculations? While it may or may not impact the score (I am too unfamiliar with the Glicko system to be sure), it seems to be a useful tidbit for those interested in tracking players by rank.
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Just out of curiosity, what is the ranking system that ATP (tennis) uses? I always thought is should work well in the SC2 context.
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...so, the BEST zerg map is 49%?
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Eh. This ranking system is screwed up. It's pretty obvious that DRG is not #1 and that naniwa, kas, stephano, and nerchio don't belong even near top 15.
I think DRG is extremely overrated but even his biggest fans have got to admit there's no way he can be considered #1 over Nestea at the very least.
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On August 11 2011 03:50 MangoTango wrote: ...so, the BEST zerg map is 49%? The best in 1.3 is 54%
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Awesome, cool, tool. Thanks for your work!
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why dont you guys read the opening post before complaining? I really dont get that...
Well, thanks for all of you that did go through the trouble of reading through it and sharing their opinion here. there was a lot of good feedback already and Ill make sure thatt well further improve on the website in the future.
Having a stopover in Bangkok right now... cant wait to finally reach sydney and christchurch....
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On August 11 2011 18:27 Khaldor wrote: why dont you guys read the opening post before complaining? I really dont get that...
Well, thanks for all of you that did go through the trouble of reading through it and sharing their opinion here. there was a lot of good feedback already and Ill make sure thatt well further improve on the website in the future.
Having a stopover in Bangkok right now... cant wait to finally reach sydney and christchurch.... I tried contacting you to have my question answer directly yet I still haven't heard. I understand your busy I am just hoping you can fill me in on some things. The thing people don't understand is that these systems are never 100% accurate and are incapable of doing so.
However, improvements that I would consider making would be A) Only imputing games that are played in specific leagues or under specific circumstances. You say Goody has 1,000 games played. Most of which are in some nonsensical league against players of considerably lower caliber. (No Pun Intended.) B) The system needs to be aware of opponents. Otherwise you end up having players like Stephano, Kas, Nerchio, ahead of Code S players. C) There has to be a priority over recent results, or you will have a player who was great 9 months ago that has gone stagnant and not played be ahead of current top players. D) Players have to have a minimal games played to even be considered in the ranking.
This is not an emotional post. I have no attachment to any of these players other than an example in my strong belief that the system is flawed but is capable of producing good results.
The reason I suggest these is because the ranking system is skewed. We all know that DRG is not the best player in the world. I am confused as to how a player is supposed to surpass DRG if he would continue to play well. Nestea's most recent results are 18-0 yet he is ranked number 6. He 16-0'd his way through the hardest tournament in the world. If 18 direct wins and a commanding past isn't enough to bolster from 6 forward, what is?
My point is players need to meet a list of specific requirements before even being considered for the ranking.
Aside from that, the work you are doing amazing. The website is beautiful in terms of layout and interface. It is easy to navigate, and the atmosphere is comfortable. I hope you take the criticism as a chance to grow, not as a personal stab. Awesome work.
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After the last GSL results the ranking already changed as you can see. Especially due to MMAs performance. The problem.with the Europeans was already explained in the OP btw
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Don't sweat it too much, Khaldor. It's theoretically impossible to have an objective algorithm that will 100% correlate with the prevailing subjective "expert" opinions. Every major sport has tried, StarCraft won't change that.
Besides, most of the time, objective measures tend to be more right than wrong, anyways.
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That database is tremendous! Hope you'll add some more filters to the money ranking where we could see earnings from one particular country etc.
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@hermana: as I've already mentioned I'm on holidays. I spent 30 of the last 48 hours on a plane and I'm online with my mobile phone. So please excuse me when I'm not keen on answering a post or PM that requires quite a long answer...
I'll answer in time, but right now being on vacation is a little bit more important to me than writing 2 pages about an algorithm. In sure you'll understand that.
Cheers, Khaldor
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