On April 10 2012 11:31 Canucklehead wrote: Well, I'm not going to say going with social trends is necessarily right because the status quo will never change without people willing to change it. However, I was more being realistic about the situation. Expecting the gaming scene to change these things is idealistic and unrealistic. In a utopia world, sure your way of thinking is correct, but it's not something I see happening any time soon. Sure you can call it weak and lame, but I just call it being realistic.
Also, there's no denying some women use their looks solely to get ahead, but I think you like to paint all women with the same brush just because they wear a dress on stage and you can't look past the dress to see the women wearing it. From your posts, you do admittedly have an anti dress bias, which in turn results in a negative opinion of women who wear dresses.
And that is exactly the problem - people accepting 'trends' as 'reality', instead of trying to make a difference. Yes, making a difference is much more effort and it's gonna get you haters, but in my eyes, that's far more worth of doing, than just dismissing everything as 'normal' or 'realistic'.
I personally would not wear a dress if they paid me to do it, as it's not my style, yes. However, my real beef with all this dress issue is, that it's portraied as something common and something all women should adhere to, to be candy-eyes for male audience during a StarCraft 2 tournament or any big occassion, really. I want to see diversity and, well, more interested in content, than seeing some half-naked someone; no offence. These events need to stop sending to 'mortal' women a message, that they need to be pretty in order to even have shot at anything. That is all I am trying to say; regardless of if I hate dresses or not.
On April 10 2012 11:30 Alaz wrote: If a female is naturally beautiful, she will have so many friends and opportunities that prevent her from even getting into video games. Then when they are so popular, they will also start looking down on people who play video games. That's why the majority of females(and males) that are gamers, are average to ugly looking, or socially inept.
So when people like Anna, Rachel, Smix(omgloveher), are starting to take over main stage with interviews and stuff. They are getting tons of hate because now these hot girls are invading OUR culture. Hopefully the majority of the community learns to respect them for their passion of e-sports but when IPL throws them up on stage wearing short dresses to try and sell us sex, it's gonna always be a fighting situtation.
I find this hypothesis disturbing, not least for its assumption that video games are something people do only when they have no other opportunities.
On April 10 2012 11:31 Canucklehead wrote: Well, I'm not going to say going with social trends is necessarily right because the status quo will never change without people willing to change it. However, I was more being realistic about the situation. Expecting the gaming scene to change these things is idealistic and unrealistic. In a utopia world, sure your way of thinking is correct, but it's not something I see happening any time soon. Sure you can call it weak and lame, but I just call it being realistic.
Also, there's no denying some women use their looks solely to get ahead, but I think you like to paint all women with the same brush just because they wear a dress on stage and you can't look past the dress to see the women wearing it. From your posts, you do admittedly have an anti dress bias, which in turn results in a negative opinion of women who wear dresses.
And that is exactly the problem - people accepting 'trends' as 'reality', instead of trying to make a difference. Yes, making a difference is much more effort and it's gonna get you haters, but in my eyes, that's far more worth of doing, than just dismissing everything as 'normal' or 'realistic'.
Well, I think trying to make a difference is a noble cause, but I think you are misconstruing that as the reason for attracting haters. It's about the delivery of the message to try to change things, which attracted hate. You can be respectful about it or not be respectful about it like you were on twitter. The message wasn't the reason for the hate. The way the message was delivered was the reason for it.
On April 10 2012 11:56 Canucklehead wrote: Well, I think trying to make a difference is a noble cause, but I think you are misconstruing that as the reason for attracting haters. It's about the delivery of the message to try to change things, which attracted hate. You can be respectful about it or not be respectful about it like you were on twitter. The message wasn't the reason for the hate. The way the message was delivered was the reason for it.
The thing is, everyone who goes 'against the flow' or 'standards' gets haters, no matter if you are nice about stuff or not. That is an undeniable truth, just look through the history, for some extreme examples, where people were burnt at stake, executed, etc. Today's society is sadly not much different, except you just can't burn someone because they have different opinion. People are too content with stereotypes and concerned with appeasing the society and its 'norms'. People are often concerned for their own popularity, rather than actually trying to make a difference.
You can keep bringing up my Twitter anger, sure, I don't really care. What I wrote was born out of long term frustration with the situation; and some of it was inappropriate, but I still believe that all the organizers should stop feeding us with candy-eyes women and would offer us some sort of diversity and more content instead; without all this 'let's please the average teenager male' kind of message. I'm not singling out anyone; it's what I see in general and yes, tired of it; both as a gamer and spectator.
Besides the twitter thing which people seem pretty hung up on XD:
I am sort of disturbed by the number of posts that seem to indicate many of the women who are public figures differ drastically in appearance from a 'real' or 'average' female gamer. Do people actually buy into the stereotype that all women who play this game are overweight, pimply, greasy, and ugly? I'm pretty sure the female gaming population is similar to the males. A few who fit the stereotype, most who are just normal looking people--not ravishingly hot, but not bad looking by any means-- some pretty people, and a few exceptionally attractive ones. I understand that on stage wearing little cocktail dresses they look a lot different than most of us at home, but when you ignore the clothes and just look at the girls, I find them pretty relateable (not like movie-stars or anything who sometimes spend hundreds of thousands a year on their appearance).
I honestly don't think any of the female presenters represent a problem-- the male presenters were in suits, and to not have the women dress up in some way would be very out of place. There is no problem with choosing dresses either, since when people get dressed up they want to look and feel their best, and many women prefer a dress. For me the problem was the lack of other kinds of women; there is great diversity in the males represented there (because there are so many of them, lol), but so few women, and almost all the ones we see are in that formal role.
On April 10 2012 16:17 RedJustice wrote: Besides the twitter thing which people seem pretty hung up on XD:
I am sort of disturbed by the number of posts that seem to indicate many of the women who are public figures differ drastically in appearance from a 'real' or 'average' female gamer. Do people actually buy into the stereotype that all women who play this game are overweight, pimply, greasy, and ugly? I'm pretty sure the female gaming population is similar to the males. A few who fit the stereotype, most who are just normal looking people--not ravishingly hot, but not bad looking by any means-- some pretty people, and a few exceptionally attractive ones. I understand that on stage wearing little cocktail dresses they look a lot different than most of us at home, but when you ignore the clothes and just look at the girls, I find them pretty relateable (not like movie-stars or anything who sometimes spend hundreds of thousands a year on their appearance).
I honestly don't think any of the female presenters represent a problem-- the male presenters were in suits, and to not have the women dress up in some way would be very out of place. There is no problem with choosing dresses either, since when people get dressed up they want to look and feel their best, and many women prefer a dress. For me the problem was the lack of other kinds of women; there is great diversity in the males represented there (because there are so many of them, lol), but so few women, and almost all the ones we see are in that formal role.
I was actually thinking that myself. As much as TL is all about nerd pride and nerd chills, one of the fastest ways to rile up our community is to hear nerd stereotypes from an outside community. Anyone remember the outrage over the Halo talk show Behind the Crosshairs and our unstylish dorkyness? Heck, Kennigit was challenging them to squats or something. But do we embrace the same stereotype about gamer girls as well?
On April 10 2012 10:55 BabyToss! wrote: What I said on twitter was my pure frustration; and also note, that my twitter is a way to vent without need to suger coat things and I write there even when upset; I won't be nice about things, if I don't like them. Again, I'll say what I think, because I am not out there to appease crowds, I am out there to do what I enjoy and share it with those who enjoy it as well. Even if it means saying nasty things born out of pure frustration; sometimes being nice about things just doesn't get the message across.
That is exactly what these males are doing. To them the gaming community is a place where they can be themselves and vent their frustration and say whatever they want. Who are you to require things of others that you don't even require of yourself? Why should these males sugar coat things just to appease female gamers? Isn't it their right to choose their friends and act however they feel? On the other hand it isn't a right to get welcomed wherever you go.
Of course it would be better if everyone were respectful of each other on the internet but that will never happen just as how bullying at school will never stop. Why are girls more targeted than guys then? Because friendship is a lot more complicated over the sex boundaries. Some can handle that but many can't. These people still play games though and there is nothing you can say or do which would remove their problems with the opposite sex, it is real and it is there. What you are basically asking is for these guys to not only get shut out from social interactions in the real world but they should also be robbed of their online respite just because you want to be a part of it. Of course you could say that as it is it isn't fair to the girls, but remember that these communities weren't built by or for girls. If you want to have the same thing then you got to build your own community instead of trying to change already existing ones.
About scantily clad girls as hostesses, I pose the question: Would you rather that there were no girls shown at all? Because there are roughly no girls as competent and experienced as the top guys in gaming.
On April 10 2012 18:10 Klockan3 wrote: That is exactly what these males are doing. To them the gaming community is a place where they can be themselves and vent their frustration and say whatever they want. Who are you to require things of others that you don't even require of yourself? Why should these males sugar coat things just to appease female gamers? Isn't it their right to choose their friends and act however they feel? On the other hand it isn't a right to get welcomed wherever you go.
Of course it would be better if everyone were respectful of each other on the internet but that will never happen just as how bullying at school will never stop. Why are girls more targeted than guys then? Because friendship is a lot more complicated over the sex boundaries. Some can handle that but many can't. These people still play games though and there is nothing you can say or do which would remove their problems with the opposite sex, it is real and it is there. What you are basically asking is for these guys to not only get shut out from social interactions in the real world but they should also be robbed of their online respite just because you want to be a part of it. Of course you could say that as it is it isn't fair to the girls, but remember that these communities weren't built by or for girls. If you want to have the same thing then you got to build your own community instead of trying to change already existing ones.
About scantily clad girls as hostesses, I pose the question: Would you rather that there were no girls shown at all? Because there are roughly no girls as competent and experienced as the top guys in gaming.
Oh, wow, this is the most narrow-minded post which was posted in last couple of pages. Again, it's so much easier to hung on what's 'normal' and 'usual', rather than try to change, and it seems that you are even okay with how things are. Can't say if serious or just trolling. Just had to bold some of your sentences, which kind of make me shake my head in disbelief.
I really hope that people get to be more open-minded than you - because you know, the difference between me and you is, that I know I can be rough around the edges, but I am also capable of reasoning and not just discarding everything, which is happening as something, which won't change, because it's oh so 'normal', and therefore, not prone to actual change. Everyone can choose - as far as I know, we all have free will, or am I mistaken? It's not about appeasing at this point, it's about common courtesy, which you seem to not believe into.
It's a paradox, that some guys want to see more women interested in StarCraft 2 and yet, when they see them, all they fill them into, is calling them names or turning them into objects of sexuality. So, really. Make up your mind already. Though, it's not like that the women will stop playing, if they enjoy the game, and we will just go back to hidding ourselves; wonder if that is what you want.
To your last question - if women are shown as mere objects and things of sexuality, then I'd rather that there would be none shown. It's sending wrong message to all 'female' gamers, that they basically have to be the same way, in order to even get anywhere in gaming industry. Like I said, I personally don't care about some candy-eye women, hell even man. I want content and StarCraft 2.
On April 10 2012 18:10 Klockan3 wrote: What you are basically asking is for these guys to not only get shut out from social interactions in the real world but they should also be robbed of their online respite just because you want to be a part of it. Of course you could say that as it is it isn't fair to the girls, but remember that these communities weren't built by or for girls. If you want to have the same thing then you got to build your own community instead of trying to change already existing ones.
I'm having some great trouble responding to this calmly to be honest, but I'll do my best. If you want to start a new gaming "community" for guys only then by all means go ahead. Apart from what you've said, which I dare to disagree with, what gives you the right to speak for the community in the first place? I don't remember giving you my vote.
On April 10 2012 18:10 Klockan3 wrote: That is exactly what these males are doing. To them the gaming community is a place where they can be themselves and vent their frustration and say whatever they want. Who are you to require things of others that you don't even require of yourself? Why should these males sugar coat things just to appease female gamers? Isn't it their right to choose their friends and act however they feel? On the other hand it isn't a right to get welcomed wherever you go.
Of course it would be better if everyone were respectful of each other on the internet but that will never happen just as how bullying at school will never stop. Why are girls more targeted than guys then? Because friendship is a lot more complicated over the sex boundaries. Some can handle that but many can't. These people still play games though and there is nothing you can say or do which would remove their problems with the opposite sex, it is real and it is there. What you are basically asking is for these guys to not only get shut out from social interactions in the real world but they should also be robbed of their online respite just because you want to be a part of it. Of course you could say that as it is it isn't fair to the girls, but remember that these communities weren't built by or for girls. If you want to have the same thing then you got to build your own community instead of trying to change already existing ones.
About scantily clad girls as hostesses, I pose the question: Would you rather that there were no girls shown at all? Because there are roughly no girls as competent and experienced as the top guys in gaming.
Oh, wow, this is the most narrow-minded post which was posted in last couple of pages.
No, I am not narrow minded. I am arguing the point which doesn't see much light here, unlike you I can see the merits of the arguments from both sides and I think that this discussion was a bit too one sided.
On April 10 2012 18:46 BabyToss! wrote: Again, it's so much easier to hung on what's 'normal' and 'usual', rather than try to change, and it seems that you are even okay with how things are. Can't say if serious or just trolling. Just had to bold some of your sentences, which kind of make me shake my head in disbelief.
I am not hung up about what is normal and usual, I am hung up about things that will never change. Utopia isn't possible. As long as romance and sex is as revered as it is today man-woman interaction will always be problematic.
On April 10 2012 18:46 BabyToss! wrote:I really hope that people get to be more open-minded than you - because you know, the difference between me and you is, that I know I can be rough around the edges, but I am also capable of reasoning and not just discarding everything, which is happening as something, which won't change, because it's oh so 'normal', and therefore, not prone to actual change. Everyone can choose - as far as I know, we all have free will, or am I mistaken? It's not about appeasing at this point, it's about common courtesy, which you seem to not believe into.
You know what I hate about arguing with girls? That the instant you are arguing against them they think that you are some kind of chauvinistic pig. I believe in common courtesy, I am one of the most respectful persons there is. The difference between me and you is exactly that, you just respect yourself and people similar to yourself, I can go beyond that and respect people who are not at all like me.
And about free will, are you saying that a shy guy could just go up and talk to women because he got free will? Note that I didn't say that it is okay for people to slander others on internet or call them names, but things like girls requiring to be treated like one of the boys by everyone they meet is plainly impossible. People will try to date her, will try to be nice and give her privileges and if they get turned down they will shy away. That will never ever change unless society's view on romantic relationships changes drastically.
Lastly, individuals got free will and can be held responsible for what they do, large groups of people don't.
On April 10 2012 18:46 BabyToss! wrote:It's a paradox, that some guys want to see more women interested in StarCraft 2 and yet, when they see them, all they fill them into, is calling them names or turning them into objects of sexuality. So, really. Make up your mind already. Though, it's not like that the women will stop playing, if they enjoy the game, and we will just go back to hidding ourselves; wonder if that is what you want.
These are not the same people, please think for a moment before you write things.
On April 10 2012 18:46 BabyToss! wrote:To your last question - if women are shown as mere objects and things of sexuality, then I'd rather that there would be none shown. It's sending wrong message to all 'female' gamers, that they basically have to be the same way, in order to even get anywhere in gaming industry. Like I said, I personally don't care about some candy-eye women, hell even man. I want content and StarCraft 2.
Why do you think that women can't think for themselves? Don't they got, oh what did you call it, free will? And yes you do care about eye-candy women, you explicitly don't want them there which means that you care.
On April 10 2012 18:10 Klockan3 wrote: What you are basically asking is for these guys to not only get shut out from social interactions in the real world but they should also be robbed of their online respite just because you want to be a part of it. Of course you could say that as it is it isn't fair to the girls, but remember that these communities weren't built by or for girls. If you want to have the same thing then you got to build your own community instead of trying to change already existing ones.
I'm having some great trouble responding to this calmly to be honest, but I'll do my best. If you want to start a new gaming "community" for guys only then by all means go ahead. Apart from what you've said, which I dare to disagree with, what gives you the right to speak for the community in the first place? I don't remember giving you my vote.
I am obviously not speaking on behalf of you or anyone else, but I didn't say that I did either. I didn't say that girls aren't welcome, I said that if girls want to get into these communities they can't expect to get treated like guys. If they have a problem with that they should create their own communities or suck it up. Guys hit on girls, nothing anyone do or say will ever change that.
@Klockan3 - no, I do not respect people, who try to dismiss everything as 'utopia' and accept things as they are, because it's, after all, how it was for millenia, so why change it, right? Some of your stuff said by you makes me want to go rough again, so I guess that I'll just stay away from even discussing with you. Because especially the last thing, where you said that the girls cannot expect to be treated like guys (which in this community equals being treated equally, without any stupid comments or being hit on) is such a bull, that I just have nothing polite to say about that. These are otherwise very civilized forums, so I'll restrain myself from saying what I really think about your opinions.
On April 10 2012 19:43 BabyToss! wrote: @Klockan3 - no, I do not respect people, who try to dismiss everything as 'utopia' and accept things as they are
Which is why we will never have a proper discussion. If you don't respect your opponent then you shouldn't argue. You will only get outraged because he/she is capable of thinking differently than you.
Edit: The point is that you haven't at all tried to tell me how you would get guys to stop hitting on girls. I argue that it is impossible. The drive to court and mate with the other sex is one of the strongest drives we have. It wont go away just because you want it to.
On April 10 2012 19:58 Klockan3 wrote: Which is why we will never have a proper discussion. If you don't respect your opponent then you shouldn't argue. You will only get outraged because he/she is capable of thinking differently than you.
Well, I'd be only repeating myself anyways, as I've already shared my bit in this topic; I am not here to convert the likes like you, I'm here to perhaps show there's something more than just accepting the 'standards' as they are, because that's how it was for who knows how long, to others, who are perhaps more receptive and willing to make a difference.
You know, with this logic, it used to be common to burn women on stake as witches, because it fit agenda of certain groups! It even used to be common for women to be a property of men. So, why don't we continue with that, right? This is very exagerrated example, yes, but I think, as an image, how absurd thinking 'let's not even try to change things, after all, it's norm' it should be enough.
On April 10 2012 19:43 BabyToss! wrote: @Klockan3 - no, I do not respect people, who try to dismiss everything as 'utopia' and accept things as they are
Which is why we will never have a proper discussion. If you don't respect your opponent then you shouldn't argue. You will only get outraged because he/she is capable of thinking differently than you.
Edit: The point is that you haven't at all tried to tell me how you would get guys to stop hitting on girls. I argue that it is impossible. The drive to court and mate with the other sex is one of the strongest drives we have. It wont go away just because you want it to.
Please tell me you're not reducing sexual harassment down to some biological imperative.
On April 10 2012 20:21 khaydarin9 wrote: Please tell me you're not reducing sexual harassment down to some biological imperative.
I was actually wondering, if he is trying to downgrade guys to mere pile of hormones by his posts. If I were a guy, I'd be highly offended by his statements. Just saying. I know many guys, who are quite intelligent and far better than that; so no, it's not like the guys can't make their decision on how to treat a fellow gamer, who happens to be a female. Thank you for pointing it out, though.
On April 10 2012 19:58 Klockan3 wrote: Which is why we will never have a proper discussion. If you don't respect your opponent then you shouldn't argue. You will only get outraged because he/she is capable of thinking differently than you.
Well, I'd be only repeating myself anyways, as I've already shared my bit in this topic; I am not here to convert the likes like you, I'm here to perhaps show there's something more than just accepting the 'standards' as they are, because that's how it was for who knows how long, to others, who are perhaps more receptive and willing to make a difference.
You know, with this logic, it used to be common to burn women on stake as witches, because it fit agenda of certain groups! It even used to be common for women to be a property of men. So, why don't we continue with that, right? This is very exagerrated example, yes, but I think, as an image, how absurd thinking 'let's not even try to change things, after all, it's norm' it should be enough.
I know that the argument "It has always been like this" is a bad argument, but as you would have noticed if you actually read what I said I am not using that argument. And then the argument "You can't say that just because it has never been done before it isn't possible" is even more ridiculous in most of the cases. Like I could argue that we should get every elementary school kids to jump 2 meters high in gym class and meet every counterargument with "You can't say that just because it has never been done before it isn't possible".
Can you agree that males to develop romantic feelings for females? Can you agree that it is possible for this to happen online? Now, how would you stop guys from developing feelings from girls? When you answered that question please accept a professorship in psychology and the nobel peace prize. I can very easily explain how to stop people from burning women and how to rewrite the law so that women aren't property of men. But preventing guys from developing feelings for gals isn't as trivial.
On April 10 2012 19:43 BabyToss! wrote: @Klockan3 - no, I do not respect people, who try to dismiss everything as 'utopia' and accept things as they are
Which is why we will never have a proper discussion. If you don't respect your opponent then you shouldn't argue. You will only get outraged because he/she is capable of thinking differently than you.
Edit: The point is that you haven't at all tried to tell me how you would get guys to stop hitting on girls. I argue that it is impossible. The drive to court and mate with the other sex is one of the strongest drives we have. It wont go away just because you want it to.
Please tell me you're not reducing sexual harassment down to some biological imperative.
I am not talking about sexual harassment, read my post. PM'ing a girl saying you love her is not sexual harassment. Giving a girl free stuff because you hope to hook up with her is not sexual harassment.
On April 10 2012 20:21 khaydarin9 wrote: Please tell me you're not reducing sexual harassment down to some biological imperative.
I was actually wondering, if he is trying to downgrade guys to mere pile of hormones by his posts. If I were a guy, I'd be highly offended by his statements. Just saying. I know many guys, who are quite intelligent and far better than that; so no, it's not like the guys can't make their decision on how to treat a fellow gamer, who happens to be a female. Thank you for pointing it out, though.
Individuals and groups differ quite a lot psychologically. For an individual it is just a choice, for the group it isn't.
@Klockan3 For guys to be able to be friends with women, it's quite simple, really. Accept them as part of the community, as equals and then, you'll see them as fellow gamers, rather than something to hit on. You are justt rying to excuse this whole 'romantic clichee' with some sort of reasoning, when there's really none. Nobody is making you to act in this way and please don't tell me it's psychological; it's all up to what the society brainwashed into us, because it's something 'common' and 'norm' and it's up to us to either accept it (bad) or make up our own mind. (good).
I've had mostly male friends through my life and it worked for me even better than friendships with women. Just saying.
On April 10 2012 18:10 Klockan3 wrote: What you are basically asking is for these guys to not only get shut out from social interactions in the real world but they should also be robbed of their online respite just because you want to be a part of it. Of course you could say that as it is it isn't fair to the girls, but remember that these communities weren't built by or for girls. If you want to have the same thing then you got to build your own community instead of trying to change already existing ones.
I'm having some great trouble responding to this calmly to be honest, but I'll do my best. If you want to start a new gaming "community" for guys only then by all means go ahead. Apart from what you've said, which I dare to disagree with, what gives you the right to speak for the community in the first place? I don't remember giving you my vote.
I am obviously not speaking on behalf of you or anyone else, but I didn't say that I did either. I didn't say that girls aren't welcome, I said that if girls want to get into these communities they can't expect to get treated like guys. If they have a problem with that they should create their own communities or suck it up. Guys hit on girls, nothing anyone do or say will ever change that.
Of course you were talking on our behalf when you said "If you want x.. don't ask our community, but start your own".
And you're doing it again just a few comments above.+ Show Spoiler +
"The point is that you haven't at all tried to tell me how you would get guys to stop hitting on girls. I argue that it is impossible. The drive to court and mate with the other sex is one of the strongest drives we have. It wont go away just because you want it to"
Seriously, stop it. It's not cool by any means. Speak for yourself and stop using others (or at least me) to support your own personal opinions.
On April 10 2012 19:58 Klockan3 wrote: Which is why we will never have a proper discussion. If you don't respect your opponent then you shouldn't argue. You will only get outraged because he/she is capable of thinking differently than you.
Well, I'd be only repeating myself anyways, as I've already shared my bit in this topic; I am not here to convert the likes like you, I'm here to perhaps show there's something more than just accepting the 'standards' as they are, because that's how it was for who knows how long, to others, who are perhaps more receptive and willing to make a difference.
You know, with this logic, it used to be common to burn women on stake as witches, because it fit agenda of certain groups! It even used to be common for women to be a property of men. So, why don't we continue with that, right? This is very exagerrated example, yes, but I think, as an image, how absurd thinking 'let's not even try to change things, after all, it's norm' it should be enough.
I know that the argument "It has always been like this" is a bad argument, but as you would have noticed if you actually read what I said I am not using that argument. And then the argument "You can't say that just because it has never been done before it isn't possible" is even more ridiculous in most of the cases. Like I could argue that we should get every elementary school kids to jump 2 meters high in gym class and meet every counterargument with "You can't say that just because it has never been done before it isn't possible".
Can you agree that males to develop romantic feelings for females? Can you agree that it is possible for this to happen online? Now, how would you stop guys from developing feelings from girls? When you answered that question please accept a professorship in psychology and the nobel peace prize. I can very easily explain how to stop people from burning women and how to rewrite the law so that women aren't property of men. But preventing guys from developing feelings for gals isn't as trivial.
On April 10 2012 19:43 BabyToss! wrote: @Klockan3 - no, I do not respect people, who try to dismiss everything as 'utopia' and accept things as they are
Which is why we will never have a proper discussion. If you don't respect your opponent then you shouldn't argue. You will only get outraged because he/she is capable of thinking differently than you.
Edit: The point is that you haven't at all tried to tell me how you would get guys to stop hitting on girls. I argue that it is impossible. The drive to court and mate with the other sex is one of the strongest drives we have. It wont go away just because you want it to.
Please tell me you're not reducing sexual harassment down to some biological imperative.
I am not talking about sexual harassment, read my post. PM'ing a girl saying you love her is not sexual harassment. Giving a girl free stuff because you hope to hook up with her is not sexual harassment.
On April 10 2012 20:21 khaydarin9 wrote: Please tell me you're not reducing sexual harassment down to some biological imperative.
I was actually wondering, if he is trying to downgrade guys to mere pile of hormones by his posts. If I were a guy, I'd be highly offended by his statements. Just saying. I know many guys, who are quite intelligent and far better than that; so no, it's not like the guys can't make their decision on how to treat a fellow gamer, who happens to be a female. Thank you for pointing it out, though.
Individuals and groups differ quite a lot psychologically. For an individual it is just a choice, for the group it isn't.
PMing a girl saying that you love her when it's not warranted is harassment. Hitting on girls in an environment where it's not warranted is harassment.