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On September 29 2012 09:37 kokomojowelieole wrote: This is sick. Who wants society to have more strippers, prostitutes, and hand-job massage parlors? Just so omega males can get laid? Only a guy who is desperate & unattractive & no personality needs a prostitute. Uhm what's wrong with them? It's call characteristic and they were born with it, some might not be confident or attractive. By the end of the day, it's not easy to change it right? I mean do men go to doctor and ask for plastic surgery? May be yes but not all. So plz have some respect for those who has less luck than you are.
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United States24343 Posts
I want to lean towards 'don't make it illegal' but I still would want some protections to keep it out of the public eye. Things like making it illegal to advertise in public would make me happy since I don't want to constantly encounter 'come have sex with our hookers' ads (or worse yet, little kids etc).
On September 29 2012 11:15 tuho12345 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 09:37 kokomojowelieole wrote: This is sick. Who wants society to have more strippers, prostitutes, and hand-job massage parlors? Just so omega males can get laid? Only a guy who is desperate & unattractive & no personality needs a prostitute. Uhm what's wrong with them? It's call characteristic and they were born with it, some might not be confident or attractive. By the end of the day, it's not easy to change it right? I mean do men go to doctor and ask for plastic surgery? May be yes but not all. So plz have some respect for those who has less luck than you are. From the sound of it most of us have more luck than him even if most of the things he said about himself are true. I'd trade in a gf, job, and being the main character on breaking bad to not have to be a horrible person.
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On September 29 2012 09:50 kokomojowelieole wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 09:44 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On September 29 2012 09:37 kokomojowelieole wrote: This is sick. Who wants society to have more strippers, prostitutes, and hand-job massage parlors? Just so omega males can get laid? Only a guy who is desperate & unattractive & no personality needs a prostitute. I don't understand this argument. Who want's a society with guns and religion? Just so omega males can show off their guns and fanatics can wield ignorance? Only a guy who is X, Y, Z generalizations needs those! Freedom is free, it shouldn't be subject to your moral code if it doesn't directly affect anyone. Do you get harmed with all the illegal prostitution? Hell no, so why is it your business if it won't harm anyone (in fact it will start cleaning up the STD's because it will definitely be regulated and kept clean meaning a less harmful system) to intervene? I can't see how anyone can find a logical reason to deny prostitution except for their own moral principles which isn't grounds to legalize or make illegal anything. This is why polygamy is illegal, some people deem it is morally right and it is religious freedom while having sex with minors counters that moral claim as a harmful and directly effecting action. On September 29 2012 09:16 jdseemoreglass wrote: Everyone with a working brain realizes that prostitution is already legal in many different ways and that explicit legalization will have more benefits than costs for all parties involved, whether taxpayers, police, johns, or the prostitutes themselves. Anyone who disagrees with this is simply expressing their psychological disgust for prostitution itself and not the actual logic of the proposition. This guy explains very clearly your position "simply expressing their psychological disgust for prostitution and not the actual logic of the proposition" I guess I know who you are. You are a guy who has lots of posts on team liquid and feels no shame that you have to PAY for sex, lol. If you want to be a keyboard warrior, then you can win all the internet arguments against me you want. I got laid probably 80 times this year and never had to pay (minus dinner, gifts, etc... but I also get gifts in return) Why don't you just got get a fleshlight and some vaseline. You wouldn't defend prostitution if you weren't having difficulties with the opposite sex. Lastly, I advise to read some books on how to score with women. You can "win" the argument, but at the end of the day, you're probably the type of guy who lost his virginity when you were 25. You probably get a panic attack each time you ask a girl out. For guys like you, I hope the only time you can ever get a decent lay is with a prostitute. Oh yeah, and you're also "the boss" on forum sites like team-liquid, and you're probably a diamond league starcraft player, so congrats to you so much!
In the words of Ron Burgandy, that escalated quickly.
Side Edit: I also want to note not a single generalization you made was even relatively accurate, you managed to over shoot my actual age by 7 years, I'll keep that a secret though since I doubt you'll be able to solve the complicated math problem of 25-7, you seem rather ... simple.
You decide to generalize me as a "guy like me" for pointing out you have no viable argument against it except for moral principle by throwing insults, making claims you cannot prove and using strawman arguments. Being in a healthy relationship that is sexually monogamous (no money drained on condoms) for two years I feel safe to say that 80 in a single year is approximately around the same for me but I don't keep track.
As others have pointed out, you're a bit of a simpleton so I'll let you get back to being whatever you characterize yourself as while you make up terms for everyone else while I'll be "the boss" ^^.
Oh and I enjoy the "you're probably a diamond starcraft league player!!!" ^^ + Show Spoiler +you dare enter here!? This is a conversation on prostitution and you challenge my STARCRAFT 2 SKILLS? + Show Spoiler +I accept + Show Spoiler +that challenge! 1300 Masters MassiveB.645, GG SON : D For I am an arm chair master
On September 29 2012 11:32 micronesia wrote:I want to lean towards 'don't make it illegal' but I still would want some protections to keep it out of the public eye. Things like making it illegal to advertise in public would make me happy since I don't want to constantly encounter 'come have sex with our hookers' ads (or worse yet, little kids etc). Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 11:15 tuho12345 wrote:On September 29 2012 09:37 kokomojowelieole wrote: This is sick. Who wants society to have more strippers, prostitutes, and hand-job massage parlors? Just so omega males can get laid? Only a guy who is desperate & unattractive & no personality needs a prostitute. Uhm what's wrong with them? It's call characteristic and they were born with it, some might not be confident or attractive. By the end of the day, it's not easy to change it right? I mean do men go to doctor and ask for plastic surgery? May be yes but not all. So plz have some respect for those who has less luck than you are. From the sound of it most of us have more luck than him even if most of the things he said about himself are true. I'd trade in a gf, job, and being the main character on breaking bad to not have to be a horrible person.
I believe in Canada it is legal to prostitute as long as it isn't publicly advertised http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/26/ontario-court-of-appeal-greenlights-brothels-sweeps-aside-many-of-canadas-anti-prostitution-laws/
Can't have pimps, can't be on the streets, brothels are ok and guards are ok. I think if I recall advertising in ads on like the yellow pages is ok but you can't buy out ads.
SideEdit:
On September 29 2012 10:16 kokomojowelieole wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 09:57 Zahir wrote:On September 29 2012 09:50 kokomojowelieole wrote:On September 29 2012 09:44 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On September 29 2012 09:37 kokomojowelieole wrote: This is sick. Who wants society to have more strippers, prostitutes, and hand-job massage parlors? Just so omega males can get laid? Only a guy who is desperate & unattractive & no personality needs a prostitute. I don't understand this argument. Who want's a society with guns and religion? Just so omega males can show off their guns and fanatics can wield ignorance? Only a guy who is X, Y, Z generalizations needs those! Freedom is free, it shouldn't be subject to your moral code if it doesn't directly affect anyone. Do you get harmed with all the illegal prostitution? Hell no, so why is it your business if it won't harm anyone (in fact it will start cleaning up the STD's because it will definitely be regulated and kept clean meaning a less harmful system) to intervene? I can't see how anyone can find a logical reason to deny prostitution except for their own moral principles which isn't grounds to legalize or make illegal anything. This is why polygamy is illegal, some people deem it is morally right and it is religious freedom while having sex with minors counters that moral claim as a harmful and directly effecting action. On September 29 2012 09:16 jdseemoreglass wrote: Everyone with a working brain realizes that prostitution is already legal in many different ways and that explicit legalization will have more benefits than costs for all parties involved, whether taxpayers, police, johns, or the prostitutes themselves. Anyone who disagrees with this is simply expressing their psychological disgust for prostitution itself and not the actual logic of the proposition. This guy explains very clearly your position "simply expressing their psychological disgust for prostitution and not the actual logic of the proposition" I guess I know who you are. You are a guy who has lots of posts on team liquid and feels no shame that you have to PAY for sex, lol. If you want to be a keyboard warrior, then you can win all the internet arguments against me you want. I got laid probably 80 times this year and never had to pay (minus dinner, gifts, etc... but I also get gifts in return) Why don't you just got get a fleshlight and some vaseline. You wouldn't defend prostitution if you weren't having difficulties with the opposite sex. Lastly, I advise to read some books on how to score with women. You can "win" the argument, but at the end of the day, you're probably the type of guy who lost his virginity when you were 25. You probably get a panic attack each time you ask a girl out. For guys like you, I hope the only time you can ever get a decent lay is with a prostitute. Oh yeah, and you're also "the boss" on forum sites like team-liquid, and you're probably a diamond league starcraft player, so congrats to you so much! That's cool and all, but instead of sitting here... On an Internet forum... Insulting people for being on Internet forum... why don't you go up to some prostitutes and explain why what they do is immoral and ought to remain illegal. Since only "keyboard warriors" try to have discussions online. I only have 94 posts, so just stfu. I have a very full life. I am watching the tampa bay rays game. I have a job, girlfriend, car, apartment, and growing some weed in my bathroom, so try & top that, bro!
The more I read your comments the more I feel like we're filling in the "accuse everyone else about what you're insecure about" You have 94 posts because your account was made in August while most accounts have been made at least a year ago -.-
If I were to generalize your age like you seem to do I would either approximate 12-16 and pray that's the case because of how ... you... argue? but I could be very wrong and perhaps you're just an immature adult.
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On September 29 2012 12:01 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 09:50 kokomojowelieole wrote:On September 29 2012 09:44 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On September 29 2012 09:37 kokomojowelieole wrote: This is sick. Who wants society to have more strippers, prostitutes, and hand-job massage parlors? Just so omega males can get laid? Only a guy who is desperate & unattractive & no personality needs a prostitute. I don't understand this argument. Who want's a society with guns and religion? Just so omega males can show off their guns and fanatics can wield ignorance? Only a guy who is X, Y, Z generalizations needs those! Freedom is free, it shouldn't be subject to your moral code if it doesn't directly affect anyone. Do you get harmed with all the illegal prostitution? Hell no, so why is it your business if it won't harm anyone (in fact it will start cleaning up the STD's because it will definitely be regulated and kept clean meaning a less harmful system) to intervene? I can't see how anyone can find a logical reason to deny prostitution except for their own moral principles which isn't grounds to legalize or make illegal anything. This is why polygamy is illegal, some people deem it is morally right and it is religious freedom while having sex with minors counters that moral claim as a harmful and directly effecting action. On September 29 2012 09:16 jdseemoreglass wrote: Everyone with a working brain realizes that prostitution is already legal in many different ways and that explicit legalization will have more benefits than costs for all parties involved, whether taxpayers, police, johns, or the prostitutes themselves. Anyone who disagrees with this is simply expressing their psychological disgust for prostitution itself and not the actual logic of the proposition. This guy explains very clearly your position "simply expressing their psychological disgust for prostitution and not the actual logic of the proposition" I guess I know who you are. You are a guy who has lots of posts on team liquid and feels no shame that you have to PAY for sex, lol. If you want to be a keyboard warrior, then you can win all the internet arguments against me you want. I got laid probably 80 times this year and never had to pay (minus dinner, gifts, etc... but I also get gifts in return) Why don't you just got get a fleshlight and some vaseline. You wouldn't defend prostitution if you weren't having difficulties with the opposite sex. Lastly, I advise to read some books on how to score with women. You can "win" the argument, but at the end of the day, you're probably the type of guy who lost his virginity when you were 25. You probably get a panic attack each time you ask a girl out. For guys like you, I hope the only time you can ever get a decent lay is with a prostitute. Oh yeah, and you're also "the boss" on forum sites like team-liquid, and you're probably a diamond league starcraft player, so congrats to you so much! In the words of Ron Burgandy, that escalated quickly. You decide to generalize me as a "guy like me" for pointing out you have no viable argument against it except for moral principle by throwing insults, making claims you cannot prove and using strawman arguments. Being in a healthy relationship that is sexually monogamous (no money drained on condoms) for two years I feel safe to say that 80 in a single year is approximately around the same for me but I don't keep track. As others have pointed out, you're a bit of a simpleton so I'll let you get back to being whatever you characterize yourself as while you make up terms for everyone else while I'll be "the boss" ^^. Oh and I enjoy the "you're probably a diamond starcraft league player!!!" ^^ + Show Spoiler +you dare enter here!? This is a conversation on prostitution and you challenge my STARCRAFT 2 SKILLS? + Show Spoiler +I accept + Show Spoiler +that challenge! 1300 Masters MassiveB.645, GG SON : D For I am an arm chair master Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 11:32 micronesia wrote:I want to lean towards 'don't make it illegal' but I still would want some protections to keep it out of the public eye. Things like making it illegal to advertise in public would make me happy since I don't want to constantly encounter 'come have sex with our hookers' ads (or worse yet, little kids etc). On September 29 2012 11:15 tuho12345 wrote:On September 29 2012 09:37 kokomojowelieole wrote: This is sick. Who wants society to have more strippers, prostitutes, and hand-job massage parlors? Just so omega males can get laid? Only a guy who is desperate & unattractive & no personality needs a prostitute. Uhm what's wrong with them? It's call characteristic and they were born with it, some might not be confident or attractive. By the end of the day, it's not easy to change it right? I mean do men go to doctor and ask for plastic surgery? May be yes but not all. So plz have some respect for those who has less luck than you are. From the sound of it most of us have more luck than him even if most of the things he said about himself are true. I'd trade in a gf, job, and being the main character on breaking bad to not have to be a horrible person. I believe in Canada it is legal to prostitute as long as it isn't publicly advertised http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/26/ontario-court-of-appeal-greenlights-brothels-sweeps-aside-many-of-canadas-anti-prostitution-laws/Can't have pimps, can't be on the streets, brothels are ok and guards are ok. I think if I recall advertising in ads on like the yellow pages is ok but you can't buy out ads.
Prostitution is legal in Canada but legally impractical, because you cannot solicit customers in a lot of situations.
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On September 29 2012 12:13 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 12:01 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On September 29 2012 09:50 kokomojowelieole wrote:On September 29 2012 09:44 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On September 29 2012 09:37 kokomojowelieole wrote: This is sick. Who wants society to have more strippers, prostitutes, and hand-job massage parlors? Just so omega males can get laid? Only a guy who is desperate & unattractive & no personality needs a prostitute. I don't understand this argument. Who want's a society with guns and religion? Just so omega males can show off their guns and fanatics can wield ignorance? Only a guy who is X, Y, Z generalizations needs those! Freedom is free, it shouldn't be subject to your moral code if it doesn't directly affect anyone. Do you get harmed with all the illegal prostitution? Hell no, so why is it your business if it won't harm anyone (in fact it will start cleaning up the STD's because it will definitely be regulated and kept clean meaning a less harmful system) to intervene? I can't see how anyone can find a logical reason to deny prostitution except for their own moral principles which isn't grounds to legalize or make illegal anything. This is why polygamy is illegal, some people deem it is morally right and it is religious freedom while having sex with minors counters that moral claim as a harmful and directly effecting action. On September 29 2012 09:16 jdseemoreglass wrote: Everyone with a working brain realizes that prostitution is already legal in many different ways and that explicit legalization will have more benefits than costs for all parties involved, whether taxpayers, police, johns, or the prostitutes themselves. Anyone who disagrees with this is simply expressing their psychological disgust for prostitution itself and not the actual logic of the proposition. This guy explains very clearly your position "simply expressing their psychological disgust for prostitution and not the actual logic of the proposition" I guess I know who you are. You are a guy who has lots of posts on team liquid and feels no shame that you have to PAY for sex, lol. If you want to be a keyboard warrior, then you can win all the internet arguments against me you want. I got laid probably 80 times this year and never had to pay (minus dinner, gifts, etc... but I also get gifts in return) Why don't you just got get a fleshlight and some vaseline. You wouldn't defend prostitution if you weren't having difficulties with the opposite sex. Lastly, I advise to read some books on how to score with women. You can "win" the argument, but at the end of the day, you're probably the type of guy who lost his virginity when you were 25. You probably get a panic attack each time you ask a girl out. For guys like you, I hope the only time you can ever get a decent lay is with a prostitute. Oh yeah, and you're also "the boss" on forum sites like team-liquid, and you're probably a diamond league starcraft player, so congrats to you so much! In the words of Ron Burgandy, that escalated quickly. You decide to generalize me as a "guy like me" for pointing out you have no viable argument against it except for moral principle by throwing insults, making claims you cannot prove and using strawman arguments. Being in a healthy relationship that is sexually monogamous (no money drained on condoms) for two years I feel safe to say that 80 in a single year is approximately around the same for me but I don't keep track. As others have pointed out, you're a bit of a simpleton so I'll let you get back to being whatever you characterize yourself as while you make up terms for everyone else while I'll be "the boss" ^^. Oh and I enjoy the "you're probably a diamond starcraft league player!!!" ^^ + Show Spoiler +you dare enter here!? This is a conversation on prostitution and you challenge my STARCRAFT 2 SKILLS? + Show Spoiler +I accept + Show Spoiler +that challenge! 1300 Masters MassiveB.645, GG SON : D For I am an arm chair master On September 29 2012 11:32 micronesia wrote:I want to lean towards 'don't make it illegal' but I still would want some protections to keep it out of the public eye. Things like making it illegal to advertise in public would make me happy since I don't want to constantly encounter 'come have sex with our hookers' ads (or worse yet, little kids etc). On September 29 2012 11:15 tuho12345 wrote:On September 29 2012 09:37 kokomojowelieole wrote: This is sick. Who wants society to have more strippers, prostitutes, and hand-job massage parlors? Just so omega males can get laid? Only a guy who is desperate & unattractive & no personality needs a prostitute. Uhm what's wrong with them? It's call characteristic and they were born with it, some might not be confident or attractive. By the end of the day, it's not easy to change it right? I mean do men go to doctor and ask for plastic surgery? May be yes but not all. So plz have some respect for those who has less luck than you are. From the sound of it most of us have more luck than him even if most of the things he said about himself are true. I'd trade in a gf, job, and being the main character on breaking bad to not have to be a horrible person. I believe in Canada it is legal to prostitute as long as it isn't publicly advertised http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/26/ontario-court-of-appeal-greenlights-brothels-sweeps-aside-many-of-canadas-anti-prostitution-laws/Can't have pimps, can't be on the streets, brothels are ok and guards are ok. I think if I recall advertising in ads on like the yellow pages is ok but you can't buy out ads. Prostitution is legal in Canada but legally impractical, because you cannot solicit customers in a lot of situations. It's mainly high end prostitution you are right as in rich people because they know the connections to the brothels but it is legal as I said.
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Illegal prostitute increases human trafficking in my opinion... Prostitutes are harder to find making sex slaves fetch a higher price, making criminal organizations more likely to pursue it as a means of making money.
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On September 29 2012 01:56 Evilmystic wrote: There is no reason for any sort of consensual activity between adults to be illegal.
By this logic any factory health and safety laws shouldn't exist...
I'm with most of the posters in this thread. By legalising it, you give the government and the law much more control. This would be brilliant for fighting STD's, reducing violence against prostitutes, and stopping human trafficking.
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I agree that legalizing it would give the prostitutes a safer work environment.. but prostitution is still "selling yourself". You're giving up your body to someone that is willing to pay for it and is kind of counter to the whole monogamous thing that humans have relied on to create healthy families where children can flourish and live healthy lives..
All in all I do believe it should be .. decriminalized. If just to protect the people who are doing it. But I really do not think this should be a profession that is talked up or a profession that is seen as admirable or great or whatever. In the end you really are selling yourself and likely any chances for a normal/happy monogamous relationship just for fast money. Just as the johns are looked down on for paying for sex, I think there should still be stigma attached to the people selling it.
edit.
I'd like to add that I really dislike the idea of prostitution. Especially in 3rd world countries where the rich can easily pray on whatever woman or girl that they want just by waving enough money infront of them or their parents faces. I understand that in north america and Europe it's more of an 'empowered woman' movement to allow women to protect themselves and prostitute freely.. but it should be noted that prostitution is far more demeaning and degrading in other parts of the world. Especially when you think of how many people that are sold into or tricked into prostituting (read nepal, india, pakistan).
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On September 29 2012 13:33 drwiggl3s wrote: I agree that legalizing it would give the prostitutes a safer work environment.. but prostitution is still "selling yourself". You're giving up your body to someone that is willing to pay for it and is kind of counter to the whole monogamous thing that humans have relied on to create healthy families where children can flourish and live healthy lives..
All in all I do believe it should be .. decriminalized. If just to protect the people who are doing it. But I really do not think this should be a profession that is talked up or a profession that is seen as admirable or great or whatever. In the end you really are selling yourself and likely any chances for a normal/happy monogamous relationship just for fast money. Just as the johns are looked down on for paying for sex, I think there should still be stigma attached to the people selling it.
edit.
I'd like to add that I really dislike the idea of prostitution. Especially in 3rd world countries where the rich can easily pray on whatever woman or girl that they want just by waving enough money infront of them or their parents faces. I understand that in north america and Europe it's more of an 'empowered woman' movement to allow women to protect themselves and prostitute freely.. but it should be noted that prostitution is far more demeaning and degrading in other parts of the world. Especially when you think of how many people that are sold into or tricked into prostituting (read nepal, india, pakistan).
To just comment on your first paragraph what is working? everyday I go and work to pay my debt off I feel like I'm selling my soul and time away to go nowhere... But I have too, if I was a good looking girl while being able to make a rate you yourself get to set for about 5-20 minutes of activity I would have a hard time choosing what I do over that.
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On September 29 2012 13:53 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 13:33 drwiggl3s wrote: I agree that legalizing it would give the prostitutes a safer work environment.. but prostitution is still "selling yourself". You're giving up your body to someone that is willing to pay for it and is kind of counter to the whole monogamous thing that humans have relied on to create healthy families where children can flourish and live healthy lives..
All in all I do believe it should be .. decriminalized. If just to protect the people who are doing it. But I really do not think this should be a profession that is talked up or a profession that is seen as admirable or great or whatever. In the end you really are selling yourself and likely any chances for a normal/happy monogamous relationship just for fast money. Just as the johns are looked down on for paying for sex, I think there should still be stigma attached to the people selling it.
edit.
I'd like to add that I really dislike the idea of prostitution. Especially in 3rd world countries where the rich can easily pray on whatever woman or girl that they want just by waving enough money infront of them or their parents faces. I understand that in north america and Europe it's more of an 'empowered woman' movement to allow women to protect themselves and prostitute freely.. but it should be noted that prostitution is far more demeaning and degrading in other parts of the world. Especially when you think of how many people that are sold into or tricked into prostituting (read nepal, india, pakistan). To just comment on your first paragraph what is working? everyday I go and work to pay my debt off I feel like I'm selling my soul and time away to go nowhere... But I have too, if I was a good looking girl while being able to make a rate you yourself get to set for about 5-20 minutes of activity I would have a hard time choosing what I do over that.
I think that you are just making clear the case that you are unhappy with your job. If that's true you should seek new training, or try to find greener pastures in your industry. Failing that, feel free to prostitute yourself if you are okay with giving up your body for just "5-20 minutes of activity"...
On a serious note, this is exactly the type of comment I dislike. People thinking prostitution is just easy money that can set them free from their debt or money worries.. People who talk like that are just seeing the positive side of it and not realizing the impact it would have on their social lives, relationships, status in the world and etc. Going into prostitution isn't something that should be taken lightly, but unfortunately for many people today, it is. All because of the promise of easy free money for minimal work.
There are more important things in life than easy money and financial security. Things such as family, self respect, self worth, and knowing you are valued for more than just the shape of your genitals.
--- no disrespect to people who do prostitute, I just wish people wouldn't take that choice of lifestyle so lightly. It isn't just "20 minutes of activity", being a prostitute is often a complete lifestyle change and a lifestyle commitment for people.
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I would be all for legalizing it if Amsterdam didnt exist. As his sources point out, legalizing it does nothing to make it safer or better for everyone, its still just a shit show just like drugs would be even if they were legal. Shady practices attract shady people, just how it is
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Very pleasantly surprised with the quality of this post, especially in the representation of the arguments.
I think a number of the arguments are subject to "perfect-world" scenarios but, perhaps could be argued as legitimate.
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Yes but only if, 1) Free will of employees 2) Frequent/Stingent health check up (both parties) 3) Locations must be strategic (not near a school etc) 4) Age restrictions (both parties) 5) Security cameras and guards to prevent rape/stalking 6) A quick crash course on how to deal with certain situations for employees
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Regulated legal prostitution beats underground possibly trafficked prostitution by a long shot.
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I like the effort that went to creating this thread. The OP provided good take off points for discussion. I am however disappointed that even at 7 pages now, we never had a true enlightening, violent or not, discussion on the matter.
All I'm reading are motherhood statements on freedom of choice, oldest profession, consensus between adults, and other general statements that do not really encourage discovery and creation of information on the issue. For this thread to really progress, we need to focus on the issues and have a comprehensive discussion on it, simultaneously or one at a time. Otherwise, everyone will just say "Legalize because freedom" or "Illegal because morality" and nothing more.
I want to focus the discussion on a key issue - prostitution as a better career option. The myth goes that it is better be a prostitute and make some money than to choose to work at a minimum wage job. The truth to this matter is instantly revealed once you consider the dynamics of its choice as a career option. Who become prostitutes? The poor and the underprivileged. Right away, there already are immediate preconditions which discriminate against the poor, thereby making the claim as a career option questionable. I support the Swedish model, prostitution, legal or illegal, is an institutionalized sexual oppression or as a human rights violation. Whether legal or not, the decision to enter prostitution is not a product of free choice or a selection among the options, but is possible only because of a lack of alternative survival options. Women who enter prostitution usually do not choose whether they want to be doctors, lawyers, astronauts, teacher, or prostitutes. This "choice" is therefore nothing more that a survival strategy, borne out of a lack of any real advantageous set of options.
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On September 29 2012 08:17 NMxMehmet wrote: illegal, i really dislike prostitution and porn videos, realize that those ladies have fathers, how would you feel having a daughter or sister being a prostitute? It's wrong. You do realise that with it being illegal girls who want to do it (for w/e reason) would just do it behind their parents back right? And you'd be surprised at the most dumbest reasons they do it for too. Dumbest I've heard so far from a 18 year old was that she needed money for a fucking handbag, thankfully though, that one was talked out of it.
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Really good points S_SienZ and either I or.
I definitely agree that a lot of prostitutes are doing it due to the survival aspect; having no other options to earn a decent income. That's why I find it unfortunate that the most vocal people for legalization are the prostitutes who feel that the "career" is an empowering one and one that shouldn't be looked down on. Although I am in support of legalization to create a safer environment for these women who are now in the trade (and for the people who use their services), I really disagree with the idea that prostitution is a career choice, or just an alternative to being a doctor, lawyer, etc. In reality most prostitutes are infact doing what they're doing due to lack of better opportunities. It really comes down to family values and in what enviroment a child is brought up. Whether it be poverty, or just having shitty or abusive parents. I think more value would be created by giving these troubled children and their parents real resources to deal with their problems so that they can in the future choose for themselves to be a lawyer, engineer, doctor etc. over the idea of selling themselves for money/drugs/housing or whatever.
edit tldr: help lift families and children out of poverty, and no child will grow up thinking prostitution is a healthy career choice. (save maybe the dumb girl in the post above who just REALLY wanted that handbag.)
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On September 29 2012 14:23 drwiggl3s wrote: Really good points S_SienZ and either I or.
I definitely agree that a lot of prostitutes are doing it due to the survival aspect; having no other options to earn a decent income. That's why I find it unfortunate that the most vocal people for legalization are the prostitutes who feel that the "career" is an empowering one and one that shouldn't be looked down on. Although I am in support of legalization to create a safer environment for these women who are now in the trade (and for the people who use their services), I really disagree with the idea that prostitution is a career choice, or just an alternative to being a doctor, lawyer, etc. In reality most prostitutes are infact doing what they're doing due to lack of better opportunities. It really comes down to family values and in what enviroment a child is brought up. Whether it be poverty, or just having shitty or abusive parents. I think more value would be created by giving these troubled children and their parents real resources to deal with their problems so that they can in the future choose for themselves to be a lawyer, engineer, doctor etc. over the idea of selling themselves for money/drugs/housing or whatever. I wouldn't say survival, but more of materialistic wants.
Survival applies to the very lowest tier of prostitutes, generally the ones most men would pay to keep away from, they generally are only able to charge about 20-30 euro per hour, coz frankly a lot of them look pretty damn fucked up.
Most hookers above the line of decent in terms of attractiveness generally are students who overspent w/e their parents are giving them or people with full time regular jobs (just not high end ones like doctor / lawyer) like office clerk / cashier. They make enough to survive, they just realise that more money would be sweet and that this gravy train is for a limited time only. Your "career" lifespan is shorter than athletes I would say.
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On September 29 2012 14:13 either I or wrote: I like the effort that went to creating this thread. The OP provided good take off points for discussion. I am however disappointed that even at 7 pages now, we never had a true enlightening, violent or not, discussion on the matter.
All I'm reading are motherhood statements on freedom of choice, oldest profession, consensus between adults, and other general statements that do not really encourage discovery and creation of information on the issue. For this thread to really progress, we need to focus on the issues and have a comprehensive discussion on it, simultaneously or one at a time. Otherwise, everyone will just say "Legalize because freedom" or "Illegal because morality" and nothing more.
I want to focus the discussion on a key issue - prostitution as a better career option. The myth goes that it is better be a prostitute and make some money than to choose to work at a minimum wage job. The truth to this matter is instantly revealed once you consider the dynamics of its choice as a career option. Who become prostitutes? The poor and the underprivileged. Right away, there already are immediate preconditions which discriminate against the poor, thereby making the claim as a career option questionable. I support the Swedish model, prostitution, legal or illegal, is an institutionalized sexual oppression or as a human rights violation. Whether legal or not, the decision to enter prostitution is not a product of free choice or a selection among the options, but is possible only because of a lack of alternative survival options. Women who enter prostitution usually do not choose whether they want to be doctors, lawyers, astronauts, teacher, or prostitutes. This "choice" is therefore nothing more that a survival strategy, borne out of a lack of any real advantageous set of options. I hope you are in the mood for some philosophical exploration. Let us examine the "choice" assumption you focused on here. If we are only to abstractify this as an issue of legitimate choice, still, there is always that choice of non action. What I am trying to emphasize here is that if we evaluate the validity of this "choice" option, then it proves impoverished in the face of the actual philosophical contengencies of the choices at hand. Which brings us to the conclusion that, no matter its limitations, deciding to become a prostitute is still a choice, among many, that women make.
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On September 29 2012 14:38 Friedrich Nietzsche wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 14:13 either I or wrote: I like the effort that went to creating this thread. The OP provided good take off points for discussion. I am however disappointed that even at 7 pages now, we never had a true enlightening, violent or not, discussion on the matter.
All I'm reading are motherhood statements on freedom of choice, oldest profession, consensus between adults, and other general statements that do not really encourage discovery and creation of information on the issue. For this thread to really progress, we need to focus on the issues and have a comprehensive discussion on it, simultaneously or one at a time. Otherwise, everyone will just say "Legalize because freedom" or "Illegal because morality" and nothing more.
I want to focus the discussion on a key issue - prostitution as a better career option. The myth goes that it is better be a prostitute and make some money than to choose to work at a minimum wage job. The truth to this matter is instantly revealed once you consider the dynamics of its choice as a career option. Who become prostitutes? The poor and the underprivileged. Right away, there already are immediate preconditions which discriminate against the poor, thereby making the claim as a career option questionable. I support the Swedish model, prostitution, legal or illegal, is an institutionalized sexual oppression or as a human rights violation. Whether legal or not, the decision to enter prostitution is not a product of free choice or a selection among the options, but is possible only because of a lack of alternative survival options. Women who enter prostitution usually do not choose whether they want to be doctors, lawyers, astronauts, teacher, or prostitutes. This "choice" is therefore nothing more that a survival strategy, borne out of a lack of any real advantageous set of options. I hope you are in the mood for some philosophical exploration. Let us examine the "choice" assumption you focused on here. If we are only to abstractify this as an issue of legitimate choice, still, there is always that choice of non action. What I am trying to emphasize here is that if we evaluate the validity of this "choice" option, then it proves impoverished in the face of the actual philosophical contengencies of the choices at hand. Which brings us to the conclusion that, no matter its limitations, deciding to become a prostitute is still a choice, among many, that women make. You mean the choice between death and not death?
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