|
On January 09 2013 15:54 Ripa666 wrote:
So since blizzard is steering away from changing any real core gameplay elements and army compositions or punishing deathballs, and BroodWar turned SC upside down changed the whole scene in an amazing way, I just feel like Blizzard isn't really pushing the envelope here and is kinda taking the easy road again and trying to turn a profit as I originally stated.
I agree with most of what you said before, but I definitely agree here.
The answers that are repeatedly popping up are "Blizzard with get SC2 right in time" and "campaign+x+y+z is worth the $40 dollars."
For one, Blizzard will not get this game right in time if we don't start pestering them now. Not to be stereotypical or anything, but I'm willing to bet that a good majority of the "yes no matter what" votes are the same people who just buy video games to get a kick out of them for a couple months, maybe play some friendly games here and there, watch some pro sc2, and then never touch it again.
Two, I feel that too many people that measure worth and pleasure in money rather than time and investment, and the people who do enjoy investing time into a game, and becoming great at it, are too few to voice their complaints about this game. Appealing to the 100~ pros is not an accurate representation of people who dedicate a good part of their time to SC2. Those people have generally moved on to other games, primarily MOBA-style games like LoL and DOTA2. I for one did not enjoy my switch to LoL, but gradually, SC2 became stupider and stupider. It turned my favorite style of RTS into C&C and I'm just switching between BW and LoL.
Blizzard can't satisfy everyone, but seriously, they should at least be able to satisfy more than half of the community, especially when their complaints could be turned into a college thesis on how the video game industry caters down to the rich and the average instead of going above and beyond the expectations of this game.
|
to be honest, whatever everyone saying here, WOL will be death with HOTS, no more big tournaments, no more very active good players, only some minor rnd guys will remain playing "vanilla" same as in sc1.
for me i didnt play WOL for nearly 1 year because it didnt make any fun anymore and now i am playing ALOT hots, so much fun, its incredible
its 120% worth its money
|
As long as Blizzard doesn't fix the income per saturated base, the "sit in 3 bases and max out in 11 minutes", and the flawless deathball movement requiring no skill to move, the game will never be as good as BW.
This is pretty much the only time they've got to do those drastic changes, because at the speed things are going, the game will be irrelevant before LoTV.
Why is the SC2BW mod better than WoL (up to the music and sounds)? Why is watching a BW pro game (OSL 2010, SPL 2010, etc..) so much better than watching GSL and the current Proleague? Keep in mind that I'm not even nostalgic for BW, I have watched pro SC2 before BW.. it's only after the " The Elephant in the Room" thread that I bothered with BW, and I have found a way more enjoyable game to watch, where SKILL, not BALANCE, determines the winner of a game.
By dumbing down all mechanics required (unlimited selection, perfect army movement, easy macro), they have made the game so easier to play that all "pros" are about the same level. Guess why we bother with balance so much? because there's not much of anything else that determines who wins in the game.
As for the OP's question.. "Is HoTS worth it?" Yes, however.. it is. Is it perfect? So far from it. But for 2013, where most video games are garbage, I'd say HoTS is pretty good. Is it as good as BW? Of course not, Is it better than WoL? Oh god yes. Can Blizzard make it way better? Yes. Will they do it? Of course not, it would require them to admit that they have done fundamental mistakes in the developpement of this game.
I don't have much faith in that company anymore.. I am enjoying LoL more than SC2 (I never thought this would be possible).I will however give my money to that company that doens't really deserve it anymore, after the horrid piece of shit that is D3, and with all the arrogance they've shown in SC2. It took them Destiny's post ( as well as a few other guys') to start doing something with that mess that is Battle.Net 2.0. What a garbage company that is sitting on the video game industry's most sacred franchises, and still cannot do a semi-worthy successor after more than 10 years...
|
Russian Federation216 Posts
The main reason i dislike hots it is the game being too much defensive. So thats mean even more death ball vs death ball boring battle
|
Personnally, I like HotS, at least in its current beta state. Before the beta I had stopped playing 1v1 in WOL and only played 2v2 or teamgames with IRL friends, mostly to chat, as I was bored with the game (playing mostly as a P player).
But now HotS brought some new ways, you can harass, you can expand, forge or forgeless, you can go air... it s great!
Although I dont think the new terran units are than great, Blizzard is supposed to take a better look at mech so I think they ll come up with something nice. As for zerg, it s great to be able to use hydralisks now.
So yeah, I think it s worth it!
|
On January 09 2013 19:51 pprrii wrote: The main reason i dislike hots it is the game being too much defensive. So thats mean even more death ball vs death ball boring battle Two balls dancing around each other is defensive? Not really what I would describe that type of game. If you are speaking about having long dull "preparation time until everyone is maxed and then two maxed armies clash" then you might have a point. With the powerful units which Protoss get in HotS I seriously doubt they will want to wait until maxed to kill the opponent though and frankly I hope they dont and really show Blizzard how stupid their ideas for new units really are ...
|
On January 10 2013 00:06 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2013 19:51 pprrii wrote: The main reason i dislike hots it is the game being too much defensive. So thats mean even more death ball vs death ball boring battle Two balls dancing around each other is defensive? Not really what I would describe that type of game. If you are speaking about having long dull "preparation time until everyone is maxed and then two maxed armies clash" then you might have a point. With the powerful units which Protoss get in HotS I seriously doubt they will want to wait until maxed to kill the opponent though and frankly I hope they dont and really show Blizzard how stupid their ideas for new units really are ...
I can confirm that a majority of protoss players i've faced have adopted a defensive/turtling strategy.They hardly move out with the exception of reaching certain timings (thermal, etc). If they scout their timing is ineffective, they'd just turtle up to a mix of robo and stargate units before they attempt to kill me off. I question blizzard's decision to increase protoss's defensive capabilities in the sense that they're nearly impenetrable in certain maps like akilon wastes. This is generally poor game design which does not incentivise protoss to adopt an aggressive playstyle largely because their end tier units are more cost efficient than their Z,T counter parts. For P, deathballing should guarantee a good trade, but this just encourages long games and ultimately, a boring game for both the spectator and players involved. Not to mention, mass recall is very effective in defense, since a typical multi-pronged attack can be eliminated far more quickly than before with even lesser losses.
|
United Kingdom14103 Posts
On January 09 2013 03:46 Falling wrote:@JDub Patrick Wyatt- Lead Designer for Warcraft 1 and 2 and "led the development efforts for Starcraft." Code of Honour: The Making of Warcraft Part 1Show nested quote +Later in the development process, and after many design arguments between team-members, we decided to allow players to select only four units at a time based on the idea that users would be required to pay attention to their tactical deployments rather than simply gathering a mob and sending them into the fray all at once. We later increased this number to nine in Warcraft II. Command and Conquer, the spiritual successor to Dune 2, didn’t have any upper bound on the number of units that could be selected. It’s worth another article to talk about the design ramifications, for sure. @Hider What about larva injects and creep spread? How easy are Zerg macro-mechanics for beginners really?
I remember reading these articles, truly incredible insight into the creation of warcraft/starcraft.
|
On January 10 2013 01:14 Novacute wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 00:06 Rabiator wrote:On January 09 2013 19:51 pprrii wrote: The main reason i dislike hots it is the game being too much defensive. So thats mean even more death ball vs death ball boring battle Two balls dancing around each other is defensive? Not really what I would describe that type of game. If you are speaking about having long dull "preparation time until everyone is maxed and then two maxed armies clash" then you might have a point. With the powerful units which Protoss get in HotS I seriously doubt they will want to wait until maxed to kill the opponent though and frankly I hope they dont and really show Blizzard how stupid their ideas for new units really are ... I can confirm that a majority of protoss players i've faced have adopted a defensive/turtling strategy.They hardly move out with the exception of reaching certain timings (thermal, etc). If they scout their timing is ineffective, they'd just turtle up to a mix of robo and stargate units before they attempt to kill me off. I question blizzard's decision to increase protoss's defensive capabilities in the sense that they're nearly impenetrable in certain maps like akilon wastes. This is generally poor game design which does not incentivise protoss to adopt an aggressive playstyle largely because their end tier units are more cost efficient than their Z,T counter parts. For P, deathballing should guarantee a good trade, but this just encourages long games and ultimately, a boring game for both the spectator and players involved. Not to mention, mass recall is very effective in defense, since a typical multi-pronged attack can be eliminated far more quickly than before with even lesser losses. You complain that Protoss's turtle, but what should they be doing? If your believe they should be rushing to an earlier timing then their extra defense is not needed and your concerns are well founded. If you believe they should be taking a 3rd then extra defense will allow them to do that. I play all 3 races and taking a 3rd in every matchup is very tough for Protoss, so more defense could encourage that.
|
After reading the most recent patch changes,, I feel like Blizzard has no clue how to fix Terran, and are generally happy with what they've done to Zerg and Protoss.
Giving Terran a major early game buff is not what we asked for. I don't know how well those medivacs were doing with the improved healing thing, but apparently they were doing well enough to warrant some outcries. They have no idea what they're doing with a game where I bet half don't even play above a diamond level. They either need to get better and make smarter balance changes or start from square one with the balance changes. Personally, I believe the time for the former is over and they need to go back to reworking the macro mechanics, production abilities, and AI design.
They still refuse to attack the original problem and are resorting to putting a bunch of makeup on the game, and when one kind of makeup doesn't work, they just use some other brand. No matter how much make up you use, people are eventually going to see the game for what it really is in due time. Maybe some people will like the game behind the mask, but I would wager a bet that most people are going to find some horribly designed game that they spent $40 on.
|
They specifically said they are focusing on TvP right now. It's debatable that they didn't really do great things for that but to say they are generally happy with Zerg and Protoss is to ignore facts.
|
I'm mainly a Protoss player and I love HoTS! Very fun to use the mothership core. However, the other two units like the Oracle and Tempest are okay but I haven't found much use for it.
The scare I had was that they were going to remove the carrier and I felt that was a deal break for me though that I'd only use the carrier maybe 10% of the time, I just like the fact that it was an option and you can build them end game.
Plus one feature I like is the fact that you can play unranked games of your skill level. I find that good because one thing I disliked about WoL is that you had to play a rank game just to find someone of equal skills.
So yes, I'll be buying it no matter what but I dislike any talks of removing units.
|
Only if they promise to leave the infestor alone, except for aesthetics... And will it be possible to get the infestor to look like it did in the starcrafts animation series by carbot animations?
|
Skytoss / HT is a terrible composition that needs to be removed from the game. Pretty much it, considering that Zerg has very limited AA to deal with anything that flies even without the newest infestor nerf.
Voidrays counter Corrupters, and Skytoss has two forms of AA with which to deal with Hydralisks.
|
I'll be getting it for the campaign, I liked the WoL campaign even though it could have been way better had your choices actually meant something.
|
TBH WoL wasn't so bad for me when it came out. Before people knew how to abuse forcefields, fungals, before death balls were discovered. Game was genuinely fun at first. I was a bit dissatisfied with the maps and the army size you could field, but since then blizzard has made it clear they don't want to see a lot of small engagement all over the place, and favor just deathballs smashing into each other for 1 deciding fight.
From what I've seen on streams, read in interviews etc. it doesn't seem like they're going to address any of those issues I had with WoL. And after D3, I promised myself not to preorder another Blizzard game like the fanboy I used to be.
Will I get HotS? That depends on Blizzard. If I see them making actual changes to the game instead of just changing fluff, I'll buy it. If they were to release it as it is now: No. I don't want to play HotS as it is now.
When I see them making actual changes that benefit the game I'll give them my money.
The guy on top of page 3 pretty much summed up all my concerns...
|
On January 13 2013 21:58 Latham wrote: TBH WoL wasn't so bad for me when it came out. Before people knew how to abuse forcefields, fungals, before death balls were discovered. Game was genuinely fun at first. I was a bit dissatisfied with the maps and the army size you could field, but since then blizzard has made it clear they don't want to see a lot of small engagement all over the place, and favor just deathballs smashing into each other for 1 deciding fight.
From what I've seen on streams, read in interviews etc. it doesn't seem like they're going to address any of those issues I had with WoL. And after D3, I promised myself not to preorder another Blizzard game like the fanboy I used to be.
Will I get HotS? That depends on Blizzard. If I see them making actual changes to the game instead of just changing fluff, I'll buy it. If they were to release it as it is now: No. I don't want to play HotS as it is now.
When I see them making actual changes that benefit the game I'll give them my money.
The guy on top of page 3 pretty much summed up all my concerns...
Everything is fun at first (almost at least). Every terrible designed ability will be fun. Even abusive stuff (like MVP vs squitle archon toilel - that was fun back then --> today everyone would throw up).
The difficult thing to get right is making stuff fun to watch for the 501th time. This is why I believe that everyone who suggests abilities/new units think about whether this unit will be "fun" to watch an endless amount of times. Typically abilities/units that limits the opponent and or has a low skill cap are not going to be fun.
|
WoL is 90 RMB (~$15 USD) right now, and with the purchase comes a FREE HoTS expansion upgrade when it releases this year.
For the Chinese version on the Chinese server only.
I guess I lucked out, I still have my US battle.net account bought for $60, but the lag is horrible so I bought the Chinese version, only to find out later that it comes with a free HoTS upgrade.
|
I'll buy it, but for the campaign only. While the story wasn't that good, the campaign was the best RTS campaign I had played in a while. Come to think of it, ever since SC2 came out two years ago, there hasn't really been an RTS worth playing. It's all about first person shooters and RPGs nowadays (and even those aren't of as high a quality as I would like).
Nowadays I don't have the time anymore to play multiplayer in any game whatsoever.
|
i really don't want to buy it, and i dont think i will.. haven't played WoL for like 7 months now and i dont miss it one bit >_<
but then a part of my wants to buy it because... well i got the first part, might aswell complete it and get the 2nd? and who knows... maybe it will be awesome and fantastic and just what everyone wanted!
|
|
|
|