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On April 10 2013 12:30 Juicyfruit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 12:23 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 10 2013 12:17 IMoperator wrote: Know what I hate? How in low elo it's all about counters. I'm first/second pick and want to go mid. I'm either going to have to: a) trade someone (which many people in solo q dont do) b) just let someone else mid c) try to pick a safe mid and hope to god the other team doesn't counter. I just want to play my ahri mid, damn it! wut At low ELO, counters don't matter because people are good enough to intelligently play a matchup to the point where they're abusing a lane advantage. Also, a lot of people have really skewed perceptions of what champions counter which, so people tend to "counterpick" champions when they're really just choosing even/fair matchups. Well, you also get the opposite cases where someone gets a bad matchup and doesn't know how to mitigate the disadvantage and gets completely rolled.
It's kind of circular logic, I agree, but it just means that these matchups are more skill oriented then they are a function of any inherent disadvantages.
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On April 10 2013 12:30 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 12:24 NationInArms wrote: Hmm, Lux's Final Spark nerf is going to suck. Oh dear, now she'll only be able to blast an entire team + a minion wave for metric fucktons of damage every 30s instead of every 24. Boo friggity hoo. That's actually just how AP mids are with stalling out games as well as several ADs (cait, graves). If you really need to close out a game I think you should get banner of command for that one strong minion that no can instagib.
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On April 10 2013 12:04 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 11:49 BlackPaladin wrote:On April 10 2013 11:28 Shikyo wrote:On April 10 2013 11:25 Requizen wrote: I honestly think the 60% sprint on rank 1 of Karma E will make her nearly ungankable. She's already really hard to catch and harass out with only 1 or 2 points in it, this is going to be hilarious. Speedup is the worst escape in the game, and it's only 1.5 seconds. You can think of it as a ~60 unit leap over 1.5 seconds that cannot go over walls, I guess. I don't see how that escape's considered any good among escapes in general to be honest. I don't think you know how MS works if you think that's like a 60 unit leap. l0l It would have been better of you to assume it was a typo and that I meant 600 but yeah, now comment assuming it's 600 please
600 units is huge, that's pretty much your average gap closer.
Moving on:IMO the problem with that Akali nerf is that she will function really awkwardly in her own role now, given that 'assassin's' need to be able to start their snowball for lack of better wording, but 'adding more risk'(read: nerfing) to her early game just means she can't start it vs more lane matchups now than previous. As noted, she was already 50/50 win in pubs(as a pubstomp champ) which is probably because of the binary nature of the role. If she is in every way worse at that role now(because a lategame buff is irrelevant, if she got to 300ap in a reasonable time she was destroying people anyways), she'll just reach that carry potential less often. If they wanted to actually add more risk, they could've taken damage off the Q and put it on the detonate(so you have to melee to get the same damage), or put more damage onto E instead(shorter range, but AoE, tricky balance beam).
It's clearly just a complete nerf, the .1 ap ratio buff is a red herring for the way they worded it.
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On April 10 2013 11:25 Requizen wrote: I honestly think the 60% sprint on rank 1 of Karma E will make her nearly ungankable. She's already really hard to catch and harass out with only 1 or 2 points in it, this is going to be hilarious.
The fact that you need mantra for it helps a bit, I would think, but yeah, Karma's gonna be pretty hard to gank. The changes to her passive and W are the ones I'm looking forward to, though. MOAR MANTRAS.
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So the only question is...
Poll: What to do with Karma before nerf?Ignore her like you did for the last 3 years (13) 65% Start to abuse for freelo (4) 20% I played Karma before it was cool (3) 15% Q_Q how OP she is (0) 0% Ban her every game (0) 0% 20 total votes Your vote: What to do with Karma before nerf? (Vote): Start to abuse for freelo (Vote): Q_Q how OP she is (Vote): I played Karma before it was cool (Vote): Ban her every game (Vote): Ignore her like you did for the last 3 years
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Ignore, obviously.
I seriously don't see why there was the akali nerf; she doesn't see pro play, and her winrate wasn't off the charts. Not to mention there was the bug where you shadow dance to minion and you get teleported to enemy fountain.
Not sure what the nunu ult buff was all about... Doesn't really change much.
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On April 10 2013 12:44 red_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 12:04 Shikyo wrote:On April 10 2013 11:49 BlackPaladin wrote:On April 10 2013 11:28 Shikyo wrote:On April 10 2013 11:25 Requizen wrote: I honestly think the 60% sprint on rank 1 of Karma E will make her nearly ungankable. She's already really hard to catch and harass out with only 1 or 2 points in it, this is going to be hilarious. Speedup is the worst escape in the game, and it's only 1.5 seconds. You can think of it as a ~60 unit leap over 1.5 seconds that cannot go over walls, I guess. I don't see how that escape's considered any good among escapes in general to be honest. I don't think you know how MS works if you think that's like a 60 unit leap. l0l It would have been better of you to assume it was a typo and that I meant 600 but yeah, now comment assuming it's 600 please 600 units is huge, that's pretty much your average gap closer. Moving on:IMO the problem with that Akali nerf is that she will function really awkwardly in her own role now, given that 'assassin's' need to be able to start their snowball for lack of better wording, but 'adding more risk'(read: nerfing) to her early game just means she can't start it vs more lane matchups now than previous. As noted, she was already 50/50 win in pubs(as a pubstomp champ) which is probably because of the binary nature of the role. If she is in every way worse at that role now(because a lategame buff is irrelevant, if she got to 300ap in a reasonable time she was destroying people anyways), she'll just reach that carry potential less often. If they wanted to actually add more risk, they could've taken damage off the Q and put it on the detonate(so you have to melee to get the same damage), or put more damage onto E instead(shorter range, but AoE, tricky balance beam). It's clearly just a complete nerf, the .1 ap ratio buff is a red herring for the way they worded it. Considering that normal walkspeed over that time ... huge and huge. It's a worse escape than Volley, and Vayne's not exactly ungankable either. Actually, Vayne's antigank tools are probably better than Karma's.
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I still think Karma will be weak. 36% win rate requires quite a few buffs. I could intentionally all in every game with barrier ignite and still probably come close to a 36% win rate on other champs.
I'm also glad the red pot start isn't being nerfed. A few months ago people were complaining about gp10s being too strong. Now the opposite is too strong? I don't think so. An early game item that temporarily buffs you. Each red pot costs 250 gold or 500 seconds of a gp10. 7 minutes 20 seconds of a gp10. You use 2 and you're down 14 minutes of a gp10 or 7 health potions (1050 life) if you just go even in the 4 minutes that you have a red pot.
I'd like to see what riot's stats are on the effect of red pots on a player's likeliness to win games.
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CRS scrimming CRSacad+AtomicN
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On April 10 2013 12:55 wei2coolman wrote: Ignore, obviously.
I seriously don't see why there was the akali nerf; she doesn't see pro play, and her winrate wasn't off the charts. Not to mention there was the bug where you shadow dance to minion and you get teleported to enemy fountain.
Not sure what the nunu ult buff was all about... Doesn't really change much. Apparently Akali was destroying every game below ~Bronze 3 and her stealth can be pretty stupid if you don't buy pink wards
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I have some mastery questions if anyone knows this stuff.
1: Is it pointless to get both Tenacious and Relentless?
2: How do you figure out which order masteries apply? For example if you have Summoners Insight and Mastermind, does it knock 15 seconds off flash followed by 10% or 10% followed by 15 seconds?
3: How about masteries and items? For example if you have both a Deathcap and Archmage, which order do they go off?
Stupid questions I know, but good info I guess for myself.
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woohoo karma gonna spam dat even more
lol try ganking karma top
1. Mantra Q at gankers, 50% slow field
2. Speed self 60% for 1.5 seconds, shield
3. Tether ganker
you aint touching shit
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On April 10 2013 13:06 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 12:55 wei2coolman wrote: Ignore, obviously.
I seriously don't see why there was the akali nerf; she doesn't see pro play, and her winrate wasn't off the charts. Not to mention there was the bug where you shadow dance to minion and you get teleported to enemy fountain.
Not sure what the nunu ult buff was all about... Doesn't really change much. Apparently Akali was destroying every game below ~Bronze 3 and her stealth can be pretty stupid if you don't buy pink wards So rather than tell players to buy pinkwards to counter a champion; Riot decides to baby its players with these silly nerfs?
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On April 10 2013 13:18 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 13:06 Shikyo wrote:On April 10 2013 12:55 wei2coolman wrote: Ignore, obviously.
I seriously don't see why there was the akali nerf; she doesn't see pro play, and her winrate wasn't off the charts. Not to mention there was the bug where you shadow dance to minion and you get teleported to enemy fountain.
Not sure what the nunu ult buff was all about... Doesn't really change much. Apparently Akali was destroying every game below ~Bronze 3 and her stealth can be pretty stupid if you don't buy pink wards So rather than tell players to buy pinkwards to counter a champion; Riot decides to baby its players with these silly nerfs? Well they needed to back before / at 6 always regardless of the situation of the lane if they didn't start with a pink ward and jungle ganks didn't work without one either... And people not buying pink wards was why Evelynn got nerfed to ground, for example. I think it's consistent with stealth champions being made weaker, you need to throw 135g down the drain after all
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On April 10 2013 13:11 sob3k wrote: woohoo karma gonna spam dat even more
lol try ganking karma top
1. Mantra Q at gankers, 50% slow field
2. Speed self 60% for 1.5 seconds, shield
3. Tether ganker
you aint touching shit 1. You can dodge skillshots, that's not even a difficult one to dodge. 2. Does barely anything. 3. If you're still in range, good luck surviving.
Not many people get ganked by enemies in plain view. If you get ganked from behind, you're screwed, just as you are if you get laneganked or brush ganked, or caught without mantra.
You will be able to survive a plainview lvl 4 warwick gank with red buff, though, assuming his lane partner doesn't stun you or something. Good job.
Btw you cannot even do that, you only have 1 mantra. You're either at 20% movespeed buff or you deal 0 dmg.
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On April 10 2013 13:21 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 13:18 wei2coolman wrote:On April 10 2013 13:06 Shikyo wrote:On April 10 2013 12:55 wei2coolman wrote: Ignore, obviously.
I seriously don't see why there was the akali nerf; she doesn't see pro play, and her winrate wasn't off the charts. Not to mention there was the bug where you shadow dance to minion and you get teleported to enemy fountain.
Not sure what the nunu ult buff was all about... Doesn't really change much. Apparently Akali was destroying every game below ~Bronze 3 and her stealth can be pretty stupid if you don't buy pink wards So rather than tell players to buy pinkwards to counter a champion; Riot decides to baby its players with these silly nerfs? Well they needed to back before / at 6 always regardless of the situation of the lane if they didn't start with a pink ward and jungle ganks didn't work without one either... And people not buying pink wards was why Evelynn got nerfed to ground, for example. I think it's consistent with stealth champions being made weaker, you need to throw 135g down the drain after all A situational stationary stealth; that was blatantly obvious when used, and got nerfed hard just a few weeks ago, needs more nerfs. I really think its stupid how much Riot coddles its lower elo trash players.
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United States23745 Posts
Akali nerfs probably not needed but I'm not going to complain about them.
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On April 10 2013 13:25 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 13:23 Shikyo wrote:On April 10 2013 13:11 sob3k wrote: woohoo karma gonna spam dat even more
lol try ganking karma top
1. Mantra Q at gankers, 50% slow field
2. Speed self 60% for 1.5 seconds, shield
3. Tether ganker
you aint touching shit 1. You can dodge skillshots, that's not even a difficult one to dodge. 2. Does barely anything. 3. If you're still in range, good luck surviving. Not many people get ganked by enemies in plain view. If you get ganked from behind, you're screwed, just as you are if you get laneganked or brush ganked, or caught without mantra. It's like my one friend we play Smash Bros with, anytime we exclaim in frustration about getting it he just says "Dodge it!" Gets pretty annoying, it's not always that easy, and a lot of people aren't doing to dodge it. We aren't all playing at high Elo so Karma's escape mechanics are gonna be pretty good when people aren't dodging skill shots. Oh I was the best player in Finland in SSBM for 4 years, what is difficult to dodge exactly? Falco's SHL and Fox's SHDL are difficult but other projectiles you shouldn't often get hit by. The strategies are mostly based around reducing the opponent's options by making them dodge those, indeed. And still, it can only slow one person as they aren't going to clump up... Still not really "ungankable" -.-
edit: My responses are weirdly timed or something, getting confused
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