|
On April 30 2013 22:35 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 22:22 SwedishHero wrote: I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women. You're not allowed to shower with girls because you're not a girl. Gay men aren't girls either.
That was a very simpe way to look at it. Why do you think it was made that way from the beggining ? Because one is a girl and the other is a guy?
If the normal order from the begginning was girls having sex with girls and guys having sex with you guys and the "gay" way was girl with guy you still think we would have the same system concerning dresser/shower rooms?
|
On April 30 2013 23:11 SwedishHero wrote: Klondikebar, I also think you are either lying or as marvellosity said.
You can think what you will. But you can rest easy knowing that if you were to get naked for me I wouldn't even chub. You straight guys are safe from the rabid onslaught of gay male sexual desire.
|
On April 30 2013 23:24 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 23:11 SwedishHero wrote: Klondikebar, I also think you are either lying or as marvellosity said. You can think what you will. But you can rest easy knowing that if you were to get naked for me I wouldn't even chub. You straight guys are safe from the rabid onslaught of gay male sexual desire.
Okey ! Then its that other thing!
|
I think it's mostly the "they have different bits from us" that makes humans separate showers, bathrooms, etc in public environments. Sexual attraction is not necessarily the main concern here.
|
On April 30 2013 23:08 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 22:56 Klondikebar wrote:On April 30 2013 22:37 Shiragaku wrote:On April 30 2013 22:20 Yuljan wrote: Honestly I dont know why any heterosexual guy would insult gay guys. They are fucking great. Every gay guy means more girls left for the rest of us. If you ever need a good wingman, give me a call. On April 30 2013 22:32 Klondikebar wrote:On April 30 2013 22:22 SwedishHero wrote: I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women. Well given that he's always used his team's locker room, he's going to keep using it. Several players have already said that being paranoid about changing around a gay dude is stupid. Being attracted to men myself, I learned very easily how to learn how to deal with situations such as this. In a locker room, there is nothing that is meant to be sexual, yes there are other naked guys but you do not feel arousal because the purpose is to change, not to relieve sexual tension. When you are naked with another guy in bed or looking at porn, you feel arousal because that is exactly what you are suppose to do in such a situation. Also, please treat us as men, not as women. Also gaydar is more effective than people think. It's rare for me to be attracted to a straight guy without a lot of alcohol or unless they're intentionally leading me on. I could change in a locker room full of straight guys without batting an eye. Rare for you, not necessarily rare for plenty of other gay guys though.
Not a single one of my gay friends has ever hit on a straight dude unless the guy was deliberately trying to appear gay or in a gay bar. Oh marv, contrarian as always.
|
On April 30 2013 23:23 SwedishHero wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 22:35 KwarK wrote:On April 30 2013 22:22 SwedishHero wrote: I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women. You're not allowed to shower with girls because you're not a girl. Gay men aren't girls either. That was a very simpe way to look at it. Why do you think it was made that way from the beggining ? Because one is a girl and the other is a guy? If the normal order from the begginning was girls having sex with girls and guys having sex with you guys and the "gay" way was girl with guy you still think we would have the same system concerning dresser/shower rooms?
In that scenario you do realize that there could only be 2 people, 1 female and 1 male per locker room at a time. If that was the normal order from the beginning. Which would mean you would need about 3.5 Billion Locker Rooms.
|
On April 30 2013 23:33 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 23:23 SwedishHero wrote:On April 30 2013 22:35 KwarK wrote:On April 30 2013 22:22 SwedishHero wrote: I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women. You're not allowed to shower with girls because you're not a girl. Gay men aren't girls either. That was a very simpe way to look at it. Why do you think it was made that way from the beggining ? Because one is a girl and the other is a guy? If the normal order from the begginning was girls having sex with girls and guys having sex with you guys and the "gay" way was girl with guy you still think we would have the same system concerning dresser/shower rooms? In that scenario you do realize that there could only be 2 people, 1 female and 1 male per locker room at a time. If that was the normal order from the beginning. Which would mean you would need about 3.5 Billion Locker Rooms.
haha ) Good one :D
|
Why this is even news baffles me.
|
United Kingdom35817 Posts
On April 30 2013 23:31 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 23:08 marvellosity wrote:On April 30 2013 22:56 Klondikebar wrote:On April 30 2013 22:37 Shiragaku wrote:On April 30 2013 22:20 Yuljan wrote: Honestly I dont know why any heterosexual guy would insult gay guys. They are fucking great. Every gay guy means more girls left for the rest of us. If you ever need a good wingman, give me a call. On April 30 2013 22:32 Klondikebar wrote:On April 30 2013 22:22 SwedishHero wrote: I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women. Well given that he's always used his team's locker room, he's going to keep using it. Several players have already said that being paranoid about changing around a gay dude is stupid. Being attracted to men myself, I learned very easily how to learn how to deal with situations such as this. In a locker room, there is nothing that is meant to be sexual, yes there are other naked guys but you do not feel arousal because the purpose is to change, not to relieve sexual tension. When you are naked with another guy in bed or looking at porn, you feel arousal because that is exactly what you are suppose to do in such a situation. Also, please treat us as men, not as women. Also gaydar is more effective than people think. It's rare for me to be attracted to a straight guy without a lot of alcohol or unless they're intentionally leading me on. I could change in a locker room full of straight guys without batting an eye. Rare for you, not necessarily rare for plenty of other gay guys though. Not a single one of my gay friends has ever hit on a straight dude unless the guy was deliberately trying to appear gay or in a gay bar. Oh marv, contrarian as always.
Nothing to do with contrarian, I know plenty of gay guys who have been attracted to straight guys, that's all.
|
Still, that locker room thing is actually kind of a valid point.
I personally wouldn't mind, but i also had a mixed Sauna in the fitness center i went to and didn't think of it as a sexual thing.
However, this situation is very much complicated. It is obviously wrong to discriminate against the gay guy who probably doesn't even care about the other men in the locker room, and it is not like he can just not change or shower after sports. But the fact still remains that a lot of people will be uncomfortable being naked around a person that can be attracted to them, after all that is the whole point of having different locker rooms/showers for men and women. And i am pretty sure that even though a lot of men will tell you otherwise, they would also feel uncomfortable showering with women.
Having 4 different showers/locker rooms would be both impractical and not even solve the problem, because if the whole point of the segregation of those is to make sure noone is showering together with someone they could possibly be attracted to, then you would still have that problem in the gay/lesbian showers.
So i really don't know what to think about this. There does not appear to be a clean solution that is fair to everyone. Basically pretty much the only possible solution is for people to just stop giving a fuck about who sees them naked while showering, in which case we could get rid of the whole problem altogether and just have one big shower/locker room. But i doubt that is going to happen.
At the moment, probably the best solution would be to let the gay guys shower with the straight guys, but it is not fair to act like there is not even a reason to talk about this. I also don't think it is necessarily homophobic to not want to be naked around gay people, different people have different limits within which they are comfortable being naked, and having people who are potentially attracted to you around is pretty high on the list of reasons that make it uncomfortable. Most women don't want to shower together with men, and most men, despite saying otherwise would be uncomfortable showering around women.
|
I thought there were plenty of openly gay athletes. Guess I was wrong. This news is just weird to me.
About the locker rooms. I think it's fair for straight men to not want gay men in the same showers just like women wouldn't want men in their showers. However, finding a solution is difficult and I guess people should just try to not give a fuck unless a gay guy is acting inappropriately.
|
United States40779 Posts
I'm straight and I still feel uncomfortable showering with other people I'm not in a sexual relationship with because I'm getting my junk out in front of random people. Ultimately it comes down to either demanding your own private shower to feel better or dealing with it, gay or straight doesn't make any difference to me in that regard.
|
It's just a sad sign of our times that this is even worth mentioning. Someone who is known for an activity which is not related to sexuality, admits that they are homosexual as if it means a thing? I mean, if people learn to accept him, it's great, one step forward, I'm just looking forward to the time where this kind of controversy over a completely personal thing is non existent.
|
United Kingdom35817 Posts
On April 30 2013 23:51 Rogerabbit_gosu wrote: It's just a sad sign of our times that this is even worth mentioning. Someone who is known for an activity which is not related to sexuality, admits that they are homosexual as if it means a thing? I mean, if people learn to accept him, it's great, one step forward, I'm just looking forward to the time where this kind of controversy over a completely personal thing is non existent.
This is pretty misleading, because the fact it's being talked about is an encouraging 'sign of our times'. Certainly every sports dude who comes out is a success, which will in the future lead to the point where it doesn't matter anymore. These things don't happen all at once though.
|
On April 30 2013 23:51 KwarK wrote: I'm straight and I still feel uncomfortable showering with other people I'm not in a sexual relationship with because I'm getting my junk out in front of random people. Ultimately it comes down to either demanding your own private shower to feel better or dealing with it, gay or straight doesn't make any difference to me in that regard. Thank God for some consistency. That is what I always like about your opinions on everything you talk about whether I agree with it or not.
|
Two years ago there was an interview with a german national football player who said he knew of several gay men on the team, but there are no professional football players in the whole Bundesliga who are openly gay. It's a huge taboo in sports. Maybe not in synchronized swimming or ice skating, I guess.
|
On April 30 2013 22:33 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 11:56 Sermokala wrote: I was quite disipointed by this. Jackie Robinson (first black athlete in US sports with white people) was a superstar in the prime of his career when he strove forward race relations in this nation. He was spat on and insulted by every other team and the fans across the nation.
This guy is going to cash in greatly, never have to play another game again in his life, received a phone call from the president, and will be able to push out of the business anyone who says an odd word to him now, all from day 1 of coming out at the end of anything public that he had to do in his life.
But of course they're the same thing for civil rights in america.
Edit: I'm not trying to take anything away from the guy, he obviously made the best decision he could ever have made. Being in the NBA for that long takes a ton of talent, work ethic, and skill. I just don't see the real difference between him and the other retired openly gay professional athletes that have come out over the years when their career was over. The guy simply isn't an active Athlete in a major american sport. First, this is like saying you're disappointed because "Rosa Parks was just a nobody. Who cares how she was treated on a bus?" I think it's actually more critical that Collins is a non-superstar athlete because it'll show more about people's character in how they treat him. If he were a superstar, people acquiesce to him no matter what, even hiding their homophobia. Because he's not a great player nor is he essential, people's true feelings are more likely to be revealed. I've heard people talk about him "cashing in" on a book deal or something. He's made $30+ million playing basketball and he'll make 1.35m if he gets another year. He may be doing it for publicity, but I don't think money is his motivation. The difference is that he's not retired. His career might be dwindling, but he has the chance to play for another year or two and make millions more dollars. It's less of a risk than someone in their prime coming out, but that's exactly why they don't. To date, I think this is the biggest risk a gay athlete has ever taken in coming out publicly. It might not be big enough for your liking, but your liking kind of sucks. Are you high? "peoples true feelings might be revealed"? Anyone that talks anything bad about this guy is going to be instantly hounded by everyone. This isn't some rosa parks "gee I might die from sitting in the front of the bus" this is some guy whos at the end of his career coming out because hes got nothing to lose and a ton to gain from it. Nike has said they have a large deal waiting for the first guy coming out and his net worth just exploded if he can brand him self as the "first openly gay active athlete in US major mens sports history. Even if he isn't that thing hes still going to be wildly celebrated for some reason.
There is literally no risk to this guy coming out and you are completely mad if you think there is. No reason to insult me because I'm not on the same bandwagon of hope you do.
|
On May 01 2013 00:09 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 22:33 Jibba wrote:On April 30 2013 11:56 Sermokala wrote: I was quite disipointed by this. Jackie Robinson (first black athlete in US sports with white people) was a superstar in the prime of his career when he strove forward race relations in this nation. He was spat on and insulted by every other team and the fans across the nation.
This guy is going to cash in greatly, never have to play another game again in his life, received a phone call from the president, and will be able to push out of the business anyone who says an odd word to him now, all from day 1 of coming out at the end of anything public that he had to do in his life.
But of course they're the same thing for civil rights in america.
Edit: I'm not trying to take anything away from the guy, he obviously made the best decision he could ever have made. Being in the NBA for that long takes a ton of talent, work ethic, and skill. I just don't see the real difference between him and the other retired openly gay professional athletes that have come out over the years when their career was over. The guy simply isn't an active Athlete in a major american sport. First, this is like saying you're disappointed because "Rosa Parks was just a nobody. Who cares how she was treated on a bus?" I think it's actually more critical that Collins is a non-superstar athlete because it'll show more about people's character in how they treat him. If he were a superstar, people acquiesce to him no matter what, even hiding their homophobia. Because he's not a great player nor is he essential, people's true feelings are more likely to be revealed. I've heard people talk about him "cashing in" on a book deal or something. He's made $30+ million playing basketball and he'll make 1.35m if he gets another year. He may be doing it for publicity, but I don't think money is his motivation. The difference is that he's not retired. His career might be dwindling, but he has the chance to play for another year or two and make millions more dollars. It's less of a risk than someone in their prime coming out, but that's exactly why they don't. To date, I think this is the biggest risk a gay athlete has ever taken in coming out publicly. It might not be big enough for your liking, but your liking kind of sucks. Are you high? "peoples true feelings might be revealed"? Anyone that talks anything bad about this guy is going to be instantly hounded by everyone. This isn't some rosa parks "gee I might die from sitting in the front of the bus" this is some guy whos at the end of his career coming out because hes got nothing to lose and a ton to gain from it. Nike has said they have a large deal waiting for the first guy coming out and his net worth just exploded if he can brand him self as the "first openly gay active athlete in US major mens sports history. Even if he isn't that thing hes still going to be wildly celebrated for some reason. There is literally no risk to this guy coming out and you are completely mad if you think there is. No reason to insult me because I'm not on the same bandwagon of hope you do.
Whether or not you see a risk, believe me, coming out of the closet is a challenge for everyone and it's always a hard thing to do. This wasn't a "no lose" situation for him.
|
On April 30 2013 23:23 SwedishHero wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 22:35 KwarK wrote:On April 30 2013 22:22 SwedishHero wrote: I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women. You're not allowed to shower with girls because you're not a girl. Gay men aren't girls either. That was a very simpe way to look at it. Why do you think it was made that way from the beggining ? Because one is a girl and the other is a guy? If the normal order from the begginning was girls having sex with girls and guys having sex with you guys and the "gay" way was girl with guy you still think we would have the same system concerning dresser/shower rooms?
Ya you wouldnt want him to be so overcome by desire from your body that he isnt able to control himself, and takes advantage of you in the team shower surrounded by everyone. Give me a break. Who gives a damn if hes in the same shower as you? Hes just another human being, and hes your teammate.
|
On April 30 2013 23:51 KwarK wrote: I'm straight and I still feel uncomfortable showering with other people I'm not in a sexual relationship with because I'm getting my junk out in front of random people. Ultimately it comes down to either demanding your own private shower to feel better or dealing with it, gay or straight doesn't make any difference to me in that regard. touché
basically intimacy comes down to "feeling" looked at, which is the main reason why girl changing up might ask you to turn around. because you're both conscious of the possible attraction of either one of you. this is what might make people feel unconfortable. I don't think this form of discomfort is related to homophobia but simply to this principle of proximity. I could care less being naked in front of people I'm familiar with, friends,gf, relatives. "but he was familiar in the past, he used to shower with them" that's totally true, but his coming out put a difference in the relation between him and his teamates, just like after being away from your parent's house for a couples years can bring discomfort if they see you or you see them naked.
About the locker rooms. I think it's fair for straight men to not want gay men in the same showers just like women wouldn't want men in their showers. However, finding a solution is difficult and I guess people should just try to not give a fuck unless a gay guy is acting inappropriately.
No, its not right for straight men to not want him in the locker room, but it would be right to be unconfortable (like i explained), it's something they must face. you can't just segregate things/people that make you feel uncomfortable, because that would be based on the prejudice that he would act inappropriately cause hes gay. Him being gay won't make him act inappropriately, he's still subject to "rules", "norms" and "morality", like most men in a girl's room would respect women intimacy.
|
|
|
|