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Valhalla18444 Posts
On November 01 2007 16:03 Last Romantic wrote: Top 3, no surprises
Iris? I guess he's not out of OSL yet, and it is for 3 months. still. I'd expect HwasIn > him.
Sea and Anytime sportin' them ProLeague points.
GGPlay: "3 month point totals! gogo Daum!"
Poor NaDa D: poor iloveoov D:
Jaedong needs to be highhher, considering his last KeSPA-considered ZvZ loss was in January and last ZvT loss in July. rA is ranked too low, as is PuSan.
Yarnc's drop makes sense. FBH drop more plz. Darkelf get out. Oh wtf CROCUS is in there?
Light can stay where he is, I suppose. Same with upmagic and Flash.
MANTOSS is the fifth-best Protoss in the world? yeaHH. Actually, it's kind of sad that I consider that to be a great honor nowadays. How the mighty have fallen..
there's no such thing as 'ranked too low' on Kespa rankings
they're based strictly on performance
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eSTRO has..... 1 player in the top 30 (UpMagic). Maybe they can double that with their anticipated North American recruit.
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wow JulyZerg #28 , too bad this guy is playing like crap now ;\
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On November 01 2007 15:22 SonuvBob wrote: This is madness!
Madness?
THIS. IS. KeSPA!!!
+ Show Spoiler +Yes. I went there. Just be glad I didn't shop a pic.
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United States20661 Posts
On November 01 2007 16:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2007 16:03 Last Romantic wrote: Top 3, no surprises
Iris? I guess he's not out of OSL yet, and it is for 3 months. still. I'd expect HwasIn > him.
Sea and Anytime sportin' them ProLeague points.
GGPlay: "3 month point totals! gogo Daum!"
Poor NaDa D: poor iloveoov D:
Jaedong needs to be highhher, considering his last KeSPA-considered ZvZ loss was in January and last ZvT loss in July. rA is ranked too low, as is PuSan.
Yarnc's drop makes sense. FBH drop more plz. Darkelf get out. Oh wtf CROCUS is in there?
Light can stay where he is, I suppose. Same with upmagic and Flash.
MANTOSS is the fifth-best Protoss in the world? yeaHH. Actually, it's kind of sad that I consider that to be a great honor nowadays. How the mighty have fallen.. there's no such thing as 'ranked too low' on Kespa rankings they're based strictly on performance
Yeah, I realize they're a completely systematic ranking form. I just don't like how they determine points
I still don't understand their formulae. People will have two losses and somehow have more points at the end..? maybe losses grant points -_-
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savior has been quite strong lately so im still hoping he will get back where he belongs.
+ Show Spoiler +
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Bit surprising how Reach and Anytime are ahead of Ra.. Is PL just worth a shit load now or what? The whole bottom 20 is kind of madness all over imo
oh and someone remind me what the fuck Calm has done?? BEcause im looking at his games(He is 14-21 btw) and its like uhhhhhh, wow 40% win rate in proleague makes you a top 20 player in the world?
If im just missing something, aight. But if not, kespa is just full of shit ranking
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Reach is claiming the ladder! Hopefully he'll be top 10 soon.
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reach can only base his winning percentages on 2v2s now, his 1v1 is nowhere close to what it was.
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On November 01 2007 16:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: there's no such thing as 'ranked too low' on Kespa rankings
they're based strictly on performance
Lies, damned lies, statistics. There are many ways to take a window on the performance of players. Just look at the ELO ratings on the site here, and observe the disparity. It's easy enough to argue that the KeSPA system for measuring the players (whatever it is) doesn't provide good or sufficiently responsive rankings. If you wanted to.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On November 01 2007 18:48 Waves wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2007 16:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: there's no such thing as 'ranked too low' on Kespa rankings
they're based strictly on performance Lies, damned lies, statistics. There are many ways to take a window on the performance of players. Just look at the ELO ratings on the site here, and observe the disparity. It's easy enough to argue that the KeSPA system for measuring the players (whatever it is) doesn't provide good or sufficiently responsive rankings. If you wanted to.
No, there isn't, because the KeSPA ranking does exactly what it is intended to do
There is a fair and accurate points system that is unrelated to current form or whatever you want to argue about. KeSPA ranking is just a ranking according to the results players put out, so Pusan's ranking is exactly in line with his wins and losses over the last three months.
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On November 01 2007 18:56 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: No, there isn't, because the KeSPA ranking does exactly what it is intended to do
What, precisely, is it intended to do? Suggest who the best players have been over the last three months?
On November 01 2007 18:56 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:There is a fair and accurate points system
What makes it fair and accurate? As I tried to imply in my post, the way you decide to calculate the points can change the rankings dramatically.
The one thing you can say for KeSPA ratings are that they're a consistent measure. Good for comparing against previous KeSPA ratings. For as long as they've kept exactly the same system, anyway.
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Bisu hell yeah! Nice month for protoss.. only two tosses who has fallen and one of them are stork who lost his first place to bisu.. No shame in that!
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On November 01 2007 19:04 Waves wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2007 18:56 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: No, there isn't, because the KeSPA ranking does exactly what it is intended to do What, precisely, is it intended to do? Suggest who the best players have been over the last three months?
No, its not to show who's the best. It's to show who's won the most in important games.
Lucky wins, shitty wins, easy opponents, it doesn't matter. Nobody views KeSPA ranking as an accurate depiction of the top 30 players in order of skill. It's just a compilation of wins and losses, no room for opinion.
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On November 01 2007 19:07 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: No, its not to show who's the best. It's to show who's won the most in important games.
Who says they made good decisions about which games count as "important"? Do you see what I'm getting at here?
On November 01 2007 19:07 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Lucky wins, shitty wins, easy opponents, it doesn't matter. Nobody views KeSPA ranking as an accurate depiction of the top 30 players in order of skill. It's just a compilation of wins and losses, no room for opinion.
Note that ELO puts no criteria on lucky wins or shitty wins. 'Easy' opponents do matter for that system, though.
What we can legitimately have an opinion about is whether KeSPA measures anything worth measuring. Whether the point system they use actually tells us something useful about the players and their relation to one another, or whether it's just meaningless data.
I could create a ranking system based on who is the best at winning games vs Terrans that last longer than 30 minutes. But who would care about who #1 was on that list? Similarly, I could create a ranking based only on games played on a day that starts with "T".
I'm not arguing that it's good or bad. I'd have to at the very least know the system they're actually using before I'd pass judgement on it. I'm just saying, there are perfectly legitimate reasons people could have for declaring these ratings to be worthless.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
I just said that KeSPA isn't an accurate measure of who is the best
I said that its an accurate measure of who has the most points by their rating system, and because of that its futile to say things like "so and so should be higher". No, so and so shouldn't, because so and so is subject to the same rules as everyone else.
I didn't say KeSPA was a great indicator of who is strong, look how different the Power Rank is. I said there's no room for argument about who should be higher or lower.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
Seriously buddy, read my posts, don't skim over them and post once you think you've got the general idea
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On November 01 2007 19:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: I didn't say KeSPA was a great indicator of who is strong, look how different the Power Rank is. I said there's no room for argument about who should be higher or lower.
Well, you could assume that the people saying "so and so should be higher" are suggesting that KeSPA use a different system of measurement. Which would be just as legitimate in the sense you've been arguing, and could potentially be more legitimate in other senses (such as what useful conclusions you could draw from it about the players).
On November 01 2007 19:24 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Seriously buddy, read my posts, don't skim over them and post once you think you've got the general idea
I understood them. I'm suggesting you're misinterpreting the spirit of the people who are complaining about these rankings.
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The protoss era is here!!! yo!!! this is better than the terran dominated rankings.. boxer,, nada,, oov,, its about time protoss done something.. and maybe random race player will dominate soon.
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