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On September 17 2014 12:33 GGzerG wrote: Instead of being creative and creating new / better maps, lets bring back maps that were terribly imbalanced, and were flawed T_T The idea's to have a nostalgic, fun season during the WCS off season. It's not intended to be competitive.
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your Country52796 Posts
I don't see why so many people are upset about this. It's for like two months, when there are no WCS tournaments, and it's experimental, and it gives them time to find new maps for next year (TL MC please)
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On September 17 2014 11:27 iMrising wrote:If anyone wants a list of all the maps: I quickly painted all the maps on liquidpedia: + Show Spoiler +perhaps add it on the OP until someone has a more legitimate one
thx that makes this a bit easier.
My hopes for the 7 next season:
Metropolis Metalopolis Shakuras Plateau Entombed Valley Korhol Sky Island Tal'darim Altar Xel'naga Caverns
Good spread of the different eras of WoL and 1 early HotS map (Korhol) that died way too soon.
Seems like everyone just wants either troll maps (okay okay, xel'naga is kind of one too) or maps that already enjoyed an absurdly long lifespan (Daybreak, Cloud, Whirldwind) though. :/
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I'd love to see Metalopolis and Steppes of War again, the close air and close ground games would be insane on those maps.
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I'm crossing my fingers for Lost Temple, Xel Naga Caverns, and Scrap Station
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I'm hoping for Scrap Station, Habitation Station (taken from us far too soon), Xel'Naga Caverns, and Korhal Floating Island.
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Looking at all the GSL/WCS maps...
I actually would most like to play on Metalopolis again, though it would probably need some balance changes to stop it from being a complete zerg-fest.
Besides that...the "funky" maps I would like to see: Scrap Station, Neo Planet S, and Heavy Rain
and the more standard but nostalgic ones: Shakuras Plateau, Tal'Darim Altar, and Entombed Valley
I can't say I particularly want Cloud Kingdom, Daybreak, or Antiga Shipyards back. They were fine maps, but I've had my fill of games on them.
edit: Oooooh, and if it's possible, Gwangalli Beach for the gorgeous visuals
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There is no Testbug available anywhere ever.
If you do not add it to the official pool please at least make a blizzard version that is a playable map PLEEEEASE
But more realistically... Daybreak.
Second I would put Habitation because I do not feel like that map had run its course.
Last would be Shattered Temple because I am old.
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omg give frost, Shakuras, Cloud and Entombed back.
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Fucking sick, it would be cool if they do this every year during WCS off season. Fun is good. Nostalgia is good. Community is good.
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On September 17 2014 11:27 Darthsanta13 wrote: I actually wonder why they stop at 7? Seems like as an off season they don't really need to have such a coherent or concise map pool. Why not have even more maps, 10, 12, 15? You could just add more vetoes to counteract how large it might be. I think it would be fun to have a really, really big map pool like that.
Server load and ease of maintenance.
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STEPS OF WAR
The intensity knows no bounds!
Err steppes or stepps or whatever and however it's spelled.
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On September 17 2014 02:48 The_Templar wrote: I want steppes of war back. That was one of the best maps in WoL.
Because that's the only one you took from Gumba :p
Daybreak. Come back my lover ! Shakuras plateau could be cool in cross only (because tanks shoot natural). Metalopolis.. i loved that map even if you can ff the ramp
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+ Show Spoiler [hate parade] +On September 17 2014 02:56 Quidios wrote: Map design is an evolution, not devolution. Blizzard is still clueless when it comes to maps and their importance. this On September 17 2014 03:07 Teoita wrote: This is incredibly stupid this On September 17 2014 03:17 SuperHofmann wrote: Maybe Blizzard doens't know how much important maps are for the meta (and meta changes). If an old WoL map cames out it will be AWFULL. and this On September 17 2014 03:19 Darkhorse wrote: I would prefer if this were on a separate matchmaking queue and not regular ladder and this On September 17 2014 03:30 DinoMight wrote: THIS WILL NOT END WELL.
THIS WILL REALLY NOT END WELL.
There's a reason we got rid of most of these maps.... lets not forget this + Show Spoiler [and more] +On September 17 2014 03:40 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2014 03:38 purakushi wrote:On September 17 2014 03:35 ChromeBallz wrote:Ohana and Metropolis! Some epic games happened on Metropolis and Ohana is just good. Just no Metalopolis I want open naturals. Metalopolis <3 And never would a blink all in be held ever again oh and this On September 17 2014 06:10 TheFish7 wrote: ugh no, please, not steppes of war. That map was inherently flawed, a new meta and new units cannot fix that map. You can just bounce between the two entrances to the main and automatically pull the defender out of position...
Also, desert oasis, it's fun and all but the 3rd bases are just simply wayy to far for that map to ever work. On September 17 2014 10:27 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I will literally re-quit laddering if this happens. Unless they make MASSIVE overhauls to the maps, I guess I will just stop playing again or try to find somewhere to custom game. On September 17 2014 12:26 Scarecrow wrote: This is a terrible idea...
edit: wtf SEVEN maps... I guess the novelty will be fun but playing on broken maps will get old fast
emotions overflowing right now, can't believe they're actually doing this.
On September 17 2014 12:33 GGzerG wrote: Instead of being creative and creating new / better maps, lets bring back maps that were terribly imbalanced, and were flawed T_T
oh and this one pisses me off the most, just look at map of the month to see what the community has to offer.
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As fun as this idea is, it kinda worries me, the game has evolved to a point now where those old maps are going to be ridiculously imbalanced in so many different ways shapes and forms that its going to turn shit upside down on its head.
dont get me wrong, i love the idea, but an entire ladder season? the fun joke will get old WAY before the season ends, and i know a lot of people probably won't be happy about this... pro players in particular
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On September 17 2014 16:07 Champi wrote: As fun as this idea is, it kinda worries me, the game has evolved to a point now where those old maps are going to be ridiculously imbalanced in so many different ways shapes and forms that its going to turn shit upside down on its head.
dont get me wrong, i love the idea, but an entire ladder season? the fun joke will get old WAY before the season ends, and i know a lot of people probably won't be happy about this... pro players in particular
Probably why they do it in the last season when finals and holidays are most prevalent as to hit the fewest people possible.
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On September 17 2014 10:30 Odowan Paleolithic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2014 09:07 [PkF] Wire wrote: A map should aimed at simple things like being balanced, promoting counter-attack based and positional play, and not favoring any strategy to the point of becoming dull. You don't need to "shake the meta" to do such things. All those ideas are not "simple things" at all. To promote counter-attack you need to have more economical path. If the attacker travels longer to attack one location from different path while the defender has a shorter travel the location (not the map) is to have a defender's advantage. This sounds simple. But add in the constrains of "you need to take a defensible third", a ramp has to be with in certain distance from the natural, you cannot have more than 3 ways to blink in/ fly in, you cannot have too many ramps chock points, you cannot do without chokes at strategic locations etc. "Standard" maps essentially limited to a map that cannot have 3rds next to each other (Deadwing on Cross Spawn), natural ramps has to be far enough from each other while the additional 4+ bases has to be closer to each other (or your "counter-attack" will become base trade), aerial/cliff distance cannot be too far from walking distance (think scrap station to habitation station, why this constraint even exist?).
The tight restrictions on map makers is the single biggest problem that Starcraft 2 suffers from. It is verging on the bizarre that BW map makers had more options with a map editor made in 1998 -although of course it was hacked into greater effectiveness over the years- than modern map makers have with a map editor made in 2010.
Sure, primarily this is a situation that results from decisions that are essentially irreversible; chokes don't restrict the time it takes for troops to move across the map, sentrys allows terrain remodelling and medivacs are made on mass allowing terrans to "skip" terrain virtually every game, warp-ins also "skip" terrain and can be done anywhere with little preparation and at no extra cost, etc. etc.
However, there is also a lack of adventurousness on the part of the community that is acting a break on map innovation -for example any map on which win rates fall more than a few percentage points outside of 50/50 is considered "broken" or that patches are expected within weeks of race balance falling a few percentage points out of 50/50.
This is a step in the right direction. There's no doubt there are going to be some nightmares in there, but any player that tells you they know exactly how every map from 2010 will play out in the modern game is wildly over-estimating their predictive ability. The brutal and messy arrival of some crazed maps (old or new) might actually result in the discovery of a new meta. It's incredibly unlikely and simply lifting a few restrictions on map makers (no regions, standard minerals) for a few maps in the off season would be a much better move, but still. This is better than nothing.
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On September 17 2014 16:27 Dapper_Cad wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2014 10:30 Odowan Paleolithic wrote:On September 17 2014 09:07 [PkF] Wire wrote: A map should aimed at simple things like being balanced, promoting counter-attack based and positional play, and not favoring any strategy to the point of becoming dull. You don't need to "shake the meta" to do such things. All those ideas are not "simple things" at all. To promote counter-attack you need to have more economical path. If the attacker travels longer to attack one location from different path while the defender has a shorter travel the location (not the map) is to have a defender's advantage. This sounds simple. But add in the constrains of "you need to take a defensible third", a ramp has to be with in certain distance from the natural, you cannot have more than 3 ways to blink in/ fly in, you cannot have too many ramps chock points, you cannot do without chokes at strategic locations etc. "Standard" maps essentially limited to a map that cannot have 3rds next to each other (Deadwing on Cross Spawn), natural ramps has to be far enough from each other while the additional 4+ bases has to be closer to each other (or your "counter-attack" will become base trade), aerial/cliff distance cannot be too far from walking distance (think scrap station to habitation station, why this constraint even exist?). The tight restrictions on map makers is the single biggest problem that Starcraft 2 suffers from. It is verging on the bizarre that BW map makers had more options with a map editor made in 1998 -although of course it was hacked into greater effectiveness over the years- than modern map makers have with a map editor made in 2010. Sure, primarily this is a situation that results from decisions that are essentially irreversible; chokes don't restrict the time it takes for troops to move across the map, sentrys allows terrain remodelling and medivacs are made on mass allowing terrans to "skip" terrain virtually every game, warp-ins also "skip" terrain and can be done anywhere with little preparation and at no extra cost, etc. etc. However, there is also a lack of adventurousness on the part of the community that is acting a break on map innovation -for example any map on which win rates fall more than a few percentage points outside of 50/50 is considered "broken" or that patches are expected within weeks of race balance falling a few percentage points out of 50/50. This is a step in the right direction. There's no doubt there are going to be some nightmares in there, but any player that tells you they know exactly how every map from 2010 will play out in the modern game is wildly over-estimating their predictive ability. The brutal and messy arrival of some crazed maps (old or new) might actually result in the discovery of a new meta. It's incredibly unlikely and simply lifting a few restrictions on map makers (no regions, standard minerals) for a few maps in the off season would be a much better move, but still. This is better than nothing.
you raise some fair points, but what are you expecting honestly? blink, forcefields, medivacs, warp ins and all the stuff that maps have addapted over time aren't gonna change all of a sudden.
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Canada11355 Posts
I agree with letting map makers deviate from standard map design in the off season.
I also want to drone rush again.
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Italy12246 Posts
On September 17 2014 13:03 The_Templar wrote: I don't see why so many people are upset about this. It's for like two months, when there are no WCS tournaments, and it's experimental, and it gives them time to find new maps for next year (TL MC please) Because some of us actually play the game.
On September 17 2014 14:31 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Fucking sick, it would be cool if they do this every year during WCS off season. Fun is good. Nostalgia is good. Community is good. Yes but then it shouldn't be forced in the ranked ladder. If this was just unranked it'd be perfectly fine.
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