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United States4883 Posts
On October 30 2015 10:04 Cephiro wrote:Can I ask where you're pulling off the 30-45% figures from? As far as I know, static charge is an additional 28.5+4.5 damage on top of the basic attack which is 32+6. The growth stays at 75%, and the initial damage (which becomes less and less of a factor) is almost 90% extra. So if anything, it improves your damage more early in the game than late in the game? (%-wise, of course not fixed numberwise) + Show Spoiler +EDIT2: I guess comparing against a tick of the storm itself is fairly reasonable and would explain your numbers, but I do think it makes more sense to compare it as an increase over the basic attack, as the static charge itself doesn't do anything, it's basically "extra basic attack damage" for tassadar.
120 extra dmg per shot out of a 5000 is also 2.4%, not 0.02%... (Just getting confused as your values seem right but your percentages seem extremely off?) I also still don't really understand why you value the archon/static charge combination so much. As mentioned before, at level 10 the only synergy between static charge and archon is the splash damage activating multiple charges at once (and to utilize that, you will need CC from your team to stack the enemies up, or to keep them in storm to refresh charges). Wall on the other hand limits you to one target per auto attack, but it gives you additional CC to keep an enemy in storms with. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while it's often preferable to fully commit into a specific type of build, it's not always the case nor is there always a single best choice for a certain type of build. As in, I personally see it's more like... Pick static charge -> Possibility of picking archon for a small extra synergy But it seems you view it as Pick static charge only if going archon for the small extra synergy While I agree that 560 point shield is a nice bit, you're never, ever going to get that off on everyone on your team. You'd require 25 seconds just for setting that up, and also for every member in your team avoiding damage for that duration of time. (Less for those who get shielded last.) In high level games, some situations come down to seconds if not fractions of seconds. You can't rely on being able to having that extra shield to stack up on that often. Realistically even if you have good knowledge / vision of the enemy movements, you aren't going to be able to prepare for a teamfight that long. And while you talk about using the downtime, you naturally take damage as you do lesser objectives and push before the inevitable teamfight. As I mentioned before, I can realistically see having maybe 2 high-priority targets constantly shielded before teamfights happen if they don't get caught out. You also have to think that khala's embrace in a sense can be outplayed. If the enemy team considers the extra 560p of shield too much of a threat, they can delay the engagement / diving in to your team, and just chip the damage off. Arguably due to the nature of damage/healing in the game, they will be able to chip the shields off faster than you can replenish them. In lower level games on the other hand even if you won't get focused as hard and the damage is more spread out, people won't be as good about keeping that extra shield up and running. But static charge isn't something you can really avoid. You try to avoid storms as is, but if you get hit you also take the stack. Which may force extra healing/shielding to be used and cause it to be on cooldown earlier than otherwise. I do think both talents are very viable and have their place, but I don't think there's a clear cut superiority for one or the other except for specific situations. (For example in a dive-heavy composition, pre-stacking your diver with extra shields is very useful). I think it comes down to how you want to play your tassadar both as yourself, and as for what the team needs. For me personally, I find static charge more useful in general, as I prefer the extra damage + the window of faster waveclear earlygame over the extra shielding lategame (also earlygame, but to an lesser extent due to the different nature of laning vs teamfighting as mentioned before). Also affected by the way I play tassadar (optimization-heavy, trying to focus on dealing damage / CCing or zoning the enemy team as much as possible until support is really needed), not to mention baiting players at low hp or with lower hp teammates is fun and then turning it around with shields + forcewall. It has been an enjoyable discussion, though!
My math is off. I think I'm still tired from yesterday.
In any case, I'm still not sure of the build, but I'm going to be playing a lot of Tass tonight to find out!
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What happened to beach Stitches?
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@Cephiro
The thing with khala embrace is that it stacks with leeching plasma. The life leech last permanently if the shields are not taken down. Its not a huge deal but it does make a difference, specially if you think both talents are decent without this interaction.
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Woooooo german hammer orc skin sound is Hammers normal one now. Finally.
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It's been announced there will be a reveal of two new maps and four new characters.
Czk/Sk Heroes of the Storm said... "We would like to take this opportunity to invite the planned live broadcast, which will be held already next weekend, and under which, hopefully, will introduce two new maps, at least four new heroes, and many other improvements that you, the players, will be surely enjoy."
source https://www.facebook.com/heroesofthestormCZ/posts/663662963775047
So this begs many questions:
* Now that the map pool is being increased from 9 to 11, will we see a map rotation in ladder? * Will we finally get out of preseason? * Will the new maps be starcraft or overwatch themed? * Will any of the new characters be from overwatch?
Any many more!
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On October 31 2015 03:43 MotherFox wrote:It's been announced there will be a reveal of two new maps and four new characters. Show nested quote +Czk/Sk Heroes of the Storm said... "We would like to take this opportunity to invite the planned live broadcast, which will be held already next weekend, and under which, hopefully, will introduce two new maps, at least four new heroes, and many other improvements that you, the players, will be surely enjoy."
source https://www.facebook.com/heroesofthestormCZ/posts/663662963775047 Incoming that girl with the orange glasses from Overwatch. She seems to be one of the representative faces of the game, so why not.
Also hoping the new maps won't be stuffed with forced auto-triggered PvE fights. Those are so fun.
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clearly we need PvE events which are player-triggered. Map event triggered every time a fort falls anyone?
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I'm hoping for some starcraft themed maps. The siege mercs could be a squad of marines and the bruiser could be a bunch of zealots with charge and the boss could be a giant ultralisk. There are lots of options for them really, but I really liked the themed merc camps from the diablo maps and hope to see more
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Caldeum1976 Posts
I think they said not too long ago that they didn't have any starcraft maps coming up, but since there's 2 maps to be revealed they could show a new warcraft map that's nearly complete, and then a preview of a starcraft map like when they showed the diablo map at blizzcon last year.
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I guess technically it would be the first warcraft map, as the current ones are meant to be generic maps.
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United States4883 Posts
On October 31 2015 04:52 MotherFox wrote: I guess technically it would be the first warcraft map, as the current ones are meant to be generic maps.
But let's be honest, in which other game do you come across random knight and ogre creeps hanging out? Amirite?
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On October 31 2015 04:45 KrytosSR wrote: I'm hoping for some starcraft themed maps. The siege mercs could be a squad of marines and the bruiser could be a bunch of zealots with charge and the boss could be a giant ultralisk. There are lots of options for them really, but I really liked the themed merc camps from the diablo maps and hope to see more
The problem with StarCraft maps is that there are three races and only two sides, so you can't as easily go Heaven/Hell and Alliance/Horde. Unless Legacy of the Void goes the direction I don't want it to, of course.
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On October 31 2015 04:12 Hier wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2015 03:43 MotherFox wrote:It's been announced there will be a reveal of two new maps and four new characters. Czk/Sk Heroes of the Storm said... "We would like to take this opportunity to invite the planned live broadcast, which will be held already next weekend, and under which, hopefully, will introduce two new maps, at least four new heroes, and many other improvements that you, the players, will be surely enjoy."
source https://www.facebook.com/heroesofthestormCZ/posts/663662963775047 Incoming that girl with the orange glasses from Overwatch. She seems to be one of the representative faces of the game, so why not. Also hoping the new maps won't be stuffed with forced auto-triggered PvE fights. Those are so fun.
Watching a bit of Overwatch and the girl you're talking about is Tracer and she has wormhole in the game. Just thought that was amusing. My hunch is the Overwatch characters won't make it in until Overwatch is closer to launch, so they don't end up with drastically different versions in the two games, but then again Blizzard games don't really change much during Beta (at least flavor wise).
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Now that I think about it, they are probably going to announce the scaling differences. That custom map has been up long enough, I think.
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United States4883 Posts
On October 30 2015 11:23 SC2John wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2015 10:04 Cephiro wrote:Can I ask where you're pulling off the 30-45% figures from? As far as I know, static charge is an additional 28.5+4.5 damage on top of the basic attack which is 32+6. The growth stays at 75%, and the initial damage (which becomes less and less of a factor) is almost 90% extra. So if anything, it improves your damage more early in the game than late in the game? (%-wise, of course not fixed numberwise) + Show Spoiler +EDIT2: I guess comparing against a tick of the storm itself is fairly reasonable and would explain your numbers, but I do think it makes more sense to compare it as an increase over the basic attack, as the static charge itself doesn't do anything, it's basically "extra basic attack damage" for tassadar.
120 extra dmg per shot out of a 5000 is also 2.4%, not 0.02%... (Just getting confused as your values seem right but your percentages seem extremely off?) I also still don't really understand why you value the archon/static charge combination so much. As mentioned before, at level 10 the only synergy between static charge and archon is the splash damage activating multiple charges at once (and to utilize that, you will need CC from your team to stack the enemies up, or to keep them in storm to refresh charges). Wall on the other hand limits you to one target per auto attack, but it gives you additional CC to keep an enemy in storms with. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while it's often preferable to fully commit into a specific type of build, it's not always the case nor is there always a single best choice for a certain type of build. As in, I personally see it's more like... Pick static charge -> Possibility of picking archon for a small extra synergy But it seems you view it as Pick static charge only if going archon for the small extra synergy While I agree that 560 point shield is a nice bit, you're never, ever going to get that off on everyone on your team. You'd require 25 seconds just for setting that up, and also for every member in your team avoiding damage for that duration of time. (Less for those who get shielded last.) In high level games, some situations come down to seconds if not fractions of seconds. You can't rely on being able to having that extra shield to stack up on that often. Realistically even if you have good knowledge / vision of the enemy movements, you aren't going to be able to prepare for a teamfight that long. And while you talk about using the downtime, you naturally take damage as you do lesser objectives and push before the inevitable teamfight. As I mentioned before, I can realistically see having maybe 2 high-priority targets constantly shielded before teamfights happen if they don't get caught out. You also have to think that khala's embrace in a sense can be outplayed. If the enemy team considers the extra 560p of shield too much of a threat, they can delay the engagement / diving in to your team, and just chip the damage off. Arguably due to the nature of damage/healing in the game, they will be able to chip the shields off faster than you can replenish them. In lower level games on the other hand even if you won't get focused as hard and the damage is more spread out, people won't be as good about keeping that extra shield up and running. But static charge isn't something you can really avoid. You try to avoid storms as is, but if you get hit you also take the stack. Which may force extra healing/shielding to be used and cause it to be on cooldown earlier than otherwise. I do think both talents are very viable and have their place, but I don't think there's a clear cut superiority for one or the other except for specific situations. (For example in a dive-heavy composition, pre-stacking your diver with extra shields is very useful). I think it comes down to how you want to play your tassadar both as yourself, and as for what the team needs. For me personally, I find static charge more useful in general, as I prefer the extra damage + the window of faster waveclear earlygame over the extra shielding lategame (also earlygame, but to an lesser extent due to the different nature of laning vs teamfighting as mentioned before). Also affected by the way I play tassadar (optimization-heavy, trying to focus on dealing damage / CCing or zoning the enemy team as much as possible until support is really needed), not to mention baiting players at low hp or with lower hp teammates is fun and then turning it around with shields + forcewall. It has been an enjoyable discussion, though! My math is off. I think I'm still tired from yesterday. In any case, I'm still not sure of the build, but I'm going to be playing a lot of Tass tonight to find out!
So I've done some more playtesting to see how this Mental Acuity/Static Charge thing holds up, and here is the conclusions I've come to:
- Mental Acuity is a good pick because it's always up when you need it, and free maphack is awesome. It's probably more effective and reliable than Healing Ward and Leeching Plasma in coordinated play, so I can understand why pros are choosing that. (I still think that Leeching Plasma is baller tho).
- The damage increase on Static Charge is not that notable. In terms of general effectiveness, it didn't really help me do anything other than win long, drawn out 1v1s...which is not really Tassadar's role lol. But going back to your original post, I think the other possibility is just that it is a better choice than most of the others. I still maintain that Khala's Embrace is godlike if used correctly, but I can see how Static Charge is a decent go-to, even if you don't go Archon.
Archon kinda blows now, even with Static Charge. Only way I see it being really effective is in combo with a Johanna or Grav-o-Bomb for the splash; the single target damage just doesn't add a lot to fights compared to the utility of Force Wall. (Note: this is a pretty blanket statement, and ofc there are situations where it works better, but overall, I feel like it's pretty meh).
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They should totally put a Warsong Gulch map in Heroes as a custom game map or something.
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was in a game where the other team drafted muradin/johanna as first picks. Well, there goes my two normal tanks. I decide to dust off leoric, as I haven't played him in a while. I really forgot how much fun he is, especially when paired against hp pools like johanna and muradin. The jaina on my team took the circle of frost ullt and was good at landing it, so I got some really fantastic march of the black kings off too. (four enemy heroes, hit two-three times each.)
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On October 31 2015 05:36 Fanatic-Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2015 04:45 KrytosSR wrote: I'm hoping for some starcraft themed maps. The siege mercs could be a squad of marines and the bruiser could be a bunch of zealots with charge and the boss could be a giant ultralisk. There are lots of options for them really, but I really liked the themed merc camps from the diablo maps and hope to see more The problem with StarCraft maps is that there are three races and only two sides, so you can't as easily go Heaven/Hell and Alliance/Horde. Unless Legacy of the Void goes the direction I don't want it to, of course.
Testbug anyone?
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I want to love Artanis so much, but the fact that he never gets an escape metaphorically kills me (and literally kills him) x.x
What's the best way to accommodate this?
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On October 31 2015 05:36 Fanatic-Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2015 04:45 KrytosSR wrote: I'm hoping for some starcraft themed maps. The siege mercs could be a squad of marines and the bruiser could be a bunch of zealots with charge and the boss could be a giant ultralisk. There are lots of options for them really, but I really liked the themed merc camps from the diablo maps and hope to see more The problem with StarCraft maps is that there are three races and only two sides, so you can't as easily go Heaven/Hell and Alliance/Horde. Unless Legacy of the Void goes the direction I don't want it to, of course.
Well, a StarCraft map doesn't have to have all 3 races on a single map.
Hell, they could have 3 different maps... one Zerg, one Terran, and one Protoss. Or 3 for the non-mirror match-ups: TvZ, ZvP, PvT. etc. etc. Or maybe they could have one race in each lane...
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