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On February 17 2017 08:48 jpg06051992 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2017 08:25 avilo wrote: Only 3 months later or what not and people finally realizing how ridiculous swarmhosts are. Well, not completely true, most of us already know it's bullshit, we're just waiting from changes from blizzard.
Would be good if other meching Terrans would comment about it. Swarm Hosts are ridiculous against mech and useless against bio, once again the balance team and their, "It's either OP or it's garbage" approach to design and balance. Would be nice to have it be just decent against both for varieties sake. The Raven is absolutely disgusting to watch and play against, that unit is at this point an abomination and either needs a total redesign or the balance team could just, I don't know, put the Science Vessel in and then balance it as time goes on? Anyone who thinks the Raven and the Host are in a good spot are probably also a Skytoss sympathizer and should be banned on moral principle alone. That's a harsh way to dismiss anyone with a differing opinion.
But I do think that SHs need a large rebalance/redesign, as does Auto-turret and Seeker missile. They're never going to replace the Raven with the Science Vessel though.
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It's just confusing reading all this mech threads. First mechers complain about every single unit that counter siege tanks, then they come and say they don't want turtle mech.
Yeah, nerfing Raven and SH is good, but then you'll be whining about vipers once again.....
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A logical response is to make Psionic Viable by buffing Archon AA range and attack.
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I think some people don't remember what SH were in HotS. Show me any 2 hours game with SH in LotV, or just a real SH vs raven game. Truth is SH are just a harass unit that doesn't scale well in late game and it's probably at the spot where Blizzard wants it if I understand correctly.
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TLADT24917 Posts
Guys, please get back on track. Posts that attack a user and not discuss the main topic will be actioned.
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That's a harsh way to dismiss anyone with a differing opinion.
Haha I apologize man that last part was a joke that I guess sounded too serious, I need to start adding happy emoji's when I'm being sarcastic.
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On February 17 2017 08:25 avilo wrote: Only 3 months later or what not and people finally realizing how ridiculous swarmhosts are. Well, not completely true, most of us already know it's bullshit, we're just waiting from changes from blizzard.
Would be good if other meching Terrans would comment about it.
Other mech terran's ? Well... who's left ?
No seriously, people already complained so much about this.
Most of the design issue's are super obvious as well, so i don't really get why blizzard isn't even mentioning anything mech related in their updates.
If they know about those issues, they should atleast tell us, that they are focussing on other things right now and that they will eventually take a look on it.
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Why does Zerg need swarmhosts to counter mech. He has so much tools to counter it (infestor, drops, viper). Also the Raven is bad designed. It was cancer in hots and now they buff it again. The Raven is a support unit and should be not main part of the lategame army.
The game has the following Problems
Terran Bio is to strong when pro player use it
Tier 3 air units from Terran and Protoss are broken (skytoss is the worst thing i have ever seen in the game)
Its not fun to play agaisnt swarmhosts. This unit shopuld be redesigned
Blizzard should give everey race a solid ground unit that can deal with Tier 3 air units
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Can someone list 1 interesting and fun interaction the current Swarm Hosts create? I can't think of any.
It's been said many times, both Ravens and Swarm Hosts create the kind of gameplay noone wants to see or play against, they're not used much in the pro scene either, so there's no issue there, but for some reason, Activision doesn't care about the playerbase, only what marketing dictates when it comes to presenting the game as the most 'l33t' esport.
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On February 17 2017 19:28 ihatevideogames wrote: Can someone list 1 interesting and fun interaction the current Swarm Hosts create? I can't think of any.
It's been said many times, both Ravens and Swarm Hosts create the kind of gameplay noone wants to see or play against, they're not used much in the pro scene either, so there's no issue there, but for some reason, Activision doesn't care about the playerbase, only what marketing dictates when it comes to presenting the game as the most 'l33t' esport.
SH are actually fun! problem is people often try to make 12+ of them which is stupidly weak, except if the opponent is turtling hardcore. It's just a weak ass unit that can do some harass that can counter turtling but that can't be massed and not very relevant in late game Doesn't need a nerf imho.
againg, SH vs raven doesn't exist anymore, at least not like it did in HotS.
That said, there are still people massing ravens and this style has always been the most dumb and boring style of sc2, increase its supply cost could be a nice move imho.
On February 17 2017 17:48 AlphaAeffchen wrote: ... Blizzard should give everey race a solid ground unit that can deal with Tier 3 air units
terran : marines, mines and thors Protoss : stalkers, HT archons Zerg : they want to buff hydralisk...
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they should remove the auto turrets compeletly and change it with the ability to repair mechanical units...
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I've tried many approaches to playing against SH. From building up a liberator count early on to burst them out of the sky, to thor heavy comps to shoot them down. I've even tried to play mech with a lot of mines to splash the locusts and push through waves. I've tried, on cactus valley (probably the most friendly anti SH map when you're meching because you can push a lot of places, it's not a "1 corridor map"), to build a cyclone heavy comp to try and attack at different places at once and abuse the cooldown of swarmhosts (they can't defend well multi proned agressions).
But the only thing that really works is litterally slamming a tech lab on your first starport and continuously build ravens for the entire game. Any attempt to fight and be agressive against SH without a ball of ravens is pointless.
Sure you'll be doing more damage with your harass than against other comps, but it the end that doesn't matter; A small ball of roaches + mass SH is the only thing you need to repel any mech army that isn't raven-heavy. That means you basically force mech into turtle, while spending no ressources whatsoever. From there you'll be able to produce ridiculous amounts of BL, ultras or vipers and just kill off the mech player.
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Russian Federation473 Posts
SH: cost up to 200/100 Raven: supply cost up to 3, autoturret dmg down to ~20, duration up to 14s
problem solved imo
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On February 17 2017 22:26 JackONeill wrote: [...] I've tried, on cactus valley (probably the most friendly anti SH map when you're meching because you can push a lot of places, it's not a "1 corridor map"), to build a cyclone heavy comp to try and attack at different places at once and abuse the immobility of swarmhosts. [...] What? SH are everything but immobile, that's actually what makes it really hard to catch them.
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On February 17 2017 22:26 JackONeill wrote: I've tried many approaches to playing against SH. From building up a liberator count early on to burst them out of the sky, to thor heavy comps to shoot them down. I've even tried to play mech with a lot of mines to splash the locusts and push through waves. I've tried, on cactus valley (probably the most friendly anti SH map when you're meching because you can push a lot of places, it's not a "1 corridor map"), to build a cyclone heavy comp to try and attack at different places at once and abuse the immobility of swarmhosts.
But the only thing that really works is litterally slamming a tech lab on your first starport and continuously build ravens for the entire game. Any attempt to fight and be agressive against SH without a ball of ravens is pointless.
Sure you'll be doing more damage with your harass than against other comps, but it the end that doesn't matter; A small ball of roaches + mass SH is the only thing you need to repel any mech army that isn't raven-heavy. That means you basically force mech into turtle, while spending no ressources whatsoever. From there you'll be able to produce ridiculous amounts of BL, ultras or vipers and just kill off the mech player.
Hm the only thing I have got working to a limited degree is blueflame hellbats with a few medivacs. You can not really catch the Swarm Hosts if he keeps retreating but you can counterattack.
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On February 17 2017 23:22 Phaenoman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2017 22:26 JackONeill wrote: [...] I've tried, on cactus valley (probably the most friendly anti SH map when you're meching because you can push a lot of places, it's not a "1 corridor map"), to build a cyclone heavy comp to try and attack at different places at once and abuse the immobility of swarmhosts. [...] What? SH are everything but immobile, that's actually what makes it really hard to catch them.
By immobility i meant that SHs can't really defend aggressions because of the CD on the locusts. It makes for a very "immobile" defense.
Poor choice of words from my part i'll edit my post.
On February 17 2017 23:36 MockHamill wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2017 22:26 JackONeill wrote: I've tried many approaches to playing against SH. From building up a liberator count early on to burst them out of the sky, to thor heavy comps to shoot them down. I've even tried to play mech with a lot of mines to splash the locusts and push through waves. I've tried, on cactus valley (probably the most friendly anti SH map when you're meching because you can push a lot of places, it's not a "1 corridor map"), to build a cyclone heavy comp to try and attack at different places at once and abuse the immobility of swarmhosts.
But the only thing that really works is litterally slamming a tech lab on your first starport and continuously build ravens for the entire game. Any attempt to fight and be agressive against SH without a ball of ravens is pointless.
Sure you'll be doing more damage with your harass than against other comps, but it the end that doesn't matter; A small ball of roaches + mass SH is the only thing you need to repel any mech army that isn't raven-heavy. That means you basically force mech into turtle, while spending no ressources whatsoever. From there you'll be able to produce ridiculous amounts of BL, ultras or vipers and just kill off the mech player. Hm the only thing I have got working to a limited degree is blueflame hellbats with a few medivacs. You can not really catch the Swarm Hosts if he keeps retreating but you can counterattack.
Yeah but to have the necessary amount of hellbats, that means you can't really harass with hellion runby. Once again, SHs force the mech player to be very passive.
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On February 17 2017 19:28 ihatevideogames wrote: Can someone list 1 interesting and fun interaction the current Swarm Hosts create? I can't think of any. .
Pissing avilo off. That's all that's needed
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